2011 450r

[chrisrzz1012]

Honda will not pull the plug on the 450R. Actually up here (MN and WI) there isn't anymore 07-09 450R's. I tried looking for one 3 mos. ago, and nobody had one. So I back to my orginal plan, build my 416ex/r quad for Hare-Scrambles and Cross- Country.

[jkiserracing]

There are none at my dealer either. In fact I haven't seen any except at a.big dealer up in Chattanooga TN. And I don't think there are all that many there.

[One_Bad_400]

Aint no way they would pull the plug on the 450r.

there are a few left at our dealer, "racin" four wheelers just arent big around here. ya ether ride a dirt bike, or a 4x4

[ThePhantomRider]

The sales are good but there is a verified surplus so sit tight.
TPR

[Jersey450R]

bump

[700xxmaniac]

there 2 450er left at the dealer where i bought my 700xx...
1 08er se and 1 09er se..... but ill stick to my 700xx even if they did make a sra 700 i just love irs and i dont think ill ever go back to sra...

[700xxmaniac]

there 2 450er left at the dealer where i bought my 700xx...
1 08er se and 1 09er se..... but ill stick to my 700xx even if they did make a sra 700 i just love irs and i dont think ill ever go back to sra...

[JParisi48]

reverse like the kawi?

[One_Bad_400]

Wings like an airplane http://www4.shoutmix.com/smileys/shrug.gif

[hotrodhonda400]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
there 2 450er left at the dealer where i bought my 700xx...
1 08er se and 1 09er se..... but ill stick to my 700xx even if they did make a sra 700 i just love irs and i dont think ill ever go back to sra...

me either IRS is the way to go , it may not slide as easy as sra BUT the power and smoothness the 700xx make everything else look like punishment :eek2:

[gocartone]

Originally posted by chrisrzz1012
Honda will not pull the plug on the 450R. Actually up here (MN and WI) there isn't anymore 07-09 450R's. I tried looking for one 3 mos. ago, and nobody had one. So I back to my orginal plan, build my 416ex/r quad for Hare-Scrambles and Cross- Country.


I'm in the Eau Claire area and the only 2 Honda dealers around me both have one 08 in stock, I think one is just a standard Red one and the other is a LTD Black with blue flames one. The black one is listed high but they already said they would go down A LOT and the red one is listed low. Don't want to go in to deep because I know someone who I've been trying to push over the fence into buying one of the two.

[dustin_j]

Anyone know if there are any leftover kickstart models, and how much are they going for?

Thanks,
Dustin

[Miguel1994]

Anything new?

I am impatient.

[gocartone]

I would like to know to. This will probably be (pending what they change on it) the first brand new quad I will buy. That is of course if they make something that can beat everything out right now, not make something that's middle of the pack like they seem to have been doing. If they do that I will just invest it into build my 450 up instead. I want EFI, LT suspension, lower and maybe wider, SOFTER SEAT!, and hopefully an engine just as powerful as the EFI CRF's.

[Miguel1994]

That would be nice.
TPR could post here a little photo fi he has it.

[ZBlaster]

Originally posted by jkiserracing
There are none at my dealer either. In fact I haven't seen any except at a.big dealer up in Chattanooga TN. And I don't think there are all that many there.



Union Powersports in Blairsville has (or had about a month ago) a brand new leftover 07 kickstart in the warehouse. Other than that I haven't found another kicker in the southeast.

[motofreak2772]

All I want is a light strong frame, and an easy to build reliable engine.
Either full chromoly or aluminum(if they can make it last) with good geometry. idc how they pack everything in there if it is light I will be happy. Dirtbike frames have no extra room with the engine, radiator etc. why do we have so much space?
the engine I hope they lighten up, maybe try something new.. Make it reliable yet still easy to make power gains. Efi is most likely going to happen but idrc for it. Most people will probably convert it back to carb. and make them come in kickstart.

This is all we need to make good race machines. Also some nice looking plastics cuz I wanna roll fly. All the other parts we can leave up to aftermarket companies.

[One_Bad_400]

honestly, i think i would ask for a harder seat. they might be hard the first day you own it. then all the foam breaks down and you need a new one. i've gone threw like 5 of them

[gocartone]

Originally posted by Smoker
When are you actually sitting on the seat if your riding it right?

Well honestly you sound like the one not knowing how to ride in this equation. But I will take your advice, next time I go trail riding and we're going down a nice smooth trail, I will stand up instead of sitting down because according to you sitting is doing it wrong.

How are your seats breaking? Rips or the foam is actually wearing out?? I want something more like the seats on the Z400's, none of this hard as a brick **** Honda is always pulling. A soft seat isn't going to wear out any quicker then a hard one, just makes long rides MUCH more comfortable.

[ZBlaster]

Originally posted by gocartone
Well honestly you sound like the one not knowing how to ride in this equation. But I will take your advice, next time I go trail riding and we're going down a nice smooth trail, I will stand up instead of sitting down because according to you sitting is doing it wrong.

How are your seats breaking? Rips or the foam is actually wearing out?? I want something more like the seats on the Z400's, none of this hard as a brick **** Honda is always pulling. A soft seat isn't going to wear out any quicker then a hard one, just makes long rides MUCH more comfortable.


It's very rare for my butt to touch the seat, but I suppose I could be doing it wrong ;)


I always thought the Honda seat was soft, but I came off a Yamaha.

[motofreak2772]

Dirtbikers already call our quads couches, now you want an even softer seat lol..

[Scro]

Let's try to keep this one on track...

[One_Bad_400]

no matter what honda releases, people will always be dissapointed in it. but no matter what, it will always be the best quad. Honda typically likes the keep stuff simple. and i enjoy that. when i look at a friends suzuki will all those wires and even a situation so small and moving your shifter up. Honda doesnt build crap, it will be worth it, all honda's are.

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
all honda's are.

Not completely true, but very close. As long as I'm not given a factory ride (don't see that coming anytime soon) I'll ride a Honda. Easy to work on, easy to find parts for, and plenty of interchangable parts.

[700xxmaniac]

i find it true hondas are eaither fast or insainly relible

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by 700xxmaniac
i find it true hondas are eaither fast or insainly relible

I was thinking the same thing, as I thought about all the stories of how tough someone's 300ex or 400ex is, but they've had some design flaws, 450ER starters, and 06 up front ends. Nothing that can't be fixed, but they're just not the best out of the box bike out there.

[700xxmaniac]

Originally posted by fastredrider44
I was thinking the same thing, as I thought about all the stories of how tough someone's 300ex or 400ex is, but they've had some design flaws, 450ER starters, and 06 up front ends. Nothing that can't be fixed, but they're just not the best out of the box bike out there.

true. the trx450 is the best example... stock there weak but a lil mods and there in the front

[jjv101]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
no matter what honda releases, people will always be dissapointed in it. but no matter what, it will always be the best quad. Honda typically likes the keep stuff simple. and i enjoy that. when i look at a friends suzuki will all those wires and even a situation so small and moving your shifter up. Honda doesnt build crap, it will be worth it, all honda's are.

i came from a stock honda to a Built LTR450. I like the built factor, but im not sure how im liking all the wires, clutter and complication compared to the honda!

[DEVINF450R]

I agree with you JJV, I like the simplicity of how a Honda makes killer power and is easy to time, pull apart, and deal with all together and the motors are ubber reliable. I do not like their ergonomics, handling (06 front ends), or teh fact that if you sneeze on the frame it breaks. the last 3 reasons are why Im on a Kawasaki right now. But like it or not Honda is going to be fuel injected just like all the other brands out there. I do hear from the bike guys that Honda fuel injection is nice.

bottom line is, if Honda realeases a strong aluminum frame, has a smaller wheel base, and feels nimble, I will spend the rest of my racing career on one.

[jjv101]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
I agree with you JJV, I like the simplicity of how a Honda makes killer power and is easy to time, pull apart, and deal with all together and the motors are ubber reliable. I do not like their ergonomics, handling (06 front ends), or teh fact that if you sneeze on the frame it breaks. the last 3 reasons are why Im on a Kawasaki right now. But like it or not Honda is going to be fuel injected just like all the other brands out there. I do hear from the bike guys that Honda fuel injection is nice.

bottom line is, if Honda realeases a strong aluminum frame, has a smaller wheel base, and feels nimble, I will spend the rest of my racing career on one.

simplicity is nice, i like the feel of the LTR...honda needs to come out with something that feels like that and is more race ready outta the box. FI wouldnt be too bad if they keep it simple and reliable still.

Ive thought about if i ever sell my LTR on trying a new KTM 450sx...they make crazy power too i hear....reliable, and have the look/feel that is tight and nimble...and are pretty light!

[Quadevil]

Originally posted by jjv101
Ive thought about if i ever sell my LTR on trying a new KTM 450sx...they make crazy power too i hear....reliable, and have the look/feel that is tight and nimble...and are pretty light!

They'll be coming out with FI in next years but a more advanced FI system then the ones in LTR, yfzR etc ;)

[700xxmaniac]

closed loop efi

[Rainbowlaces]

Dear Honda,

I am tired of waiting for your new 450 sport atv. Hurry up with the release.

Thanks,
RBL.


p.s. I love my 250R, but it's really time for an upgrayyed. :)

[ThePhantomRider]

All I can say is this thing is SMOOOOTHHH....

Smooth ride, smooth power delivery....

Thing pulls clean through the RPM range.

Will it be everyone's cup of tea? No, nothing is, but it will continue the tradition of Honda building a great quad that becomes the best base to build a race quad around.

Outside of factory Suzuki, Honda has been up front from MX to Desert.

You're all gonna love this thing!!!

Red will rise again....very soon!!!

TPR

[troybilt]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
All I can say is this thing is SMOOOOTHHH....

Smooth ride, smooth power delivery....

Thing pulls clean through the RPM range.

Will it be everyone's cup of tea? No, nothing is, but it will continue the tradition of Honda building a great quad that becomes the best base to build a race quad around.

Outside of factory Suzuki, Honda has been up front from MX to Desert.

You're all gonna love this thing!!!

Red will rise again....very soon!!!

TPR

HOW SOON???!!!! Sounds intriguing

[wild250rman]

Did you get to touch it or just look at it. Does it have the smell of pre mix when running?

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by wild250rman
Did you get to touch it or just look at it. Does it have the smell of pre mix when running?

Noo as much as I'd like a new 2 smoker, no premix smell here.

Everyone's patience will be rewarded soon.


TPR

[Scro]

I can't wait. I'm parting out my 07 as we speak:macho

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by Scro
I can't wait. I'm parting out my 07 as we speak:macho

i wish i was. how much i would LOVE to ENJOY a new toy. money just aint there. within the next year i hope to be able to sell my stuff and get something new.i'll let all the tips and tricks get figured out. then i'll get mine.

[Scro]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
i'll let all the tips and tricks get figured out. then i'll get mine.

Oh yeah, definately. I'm just selling everything for now so I can save up for a wedding and down payment on a house. After I'm settled in, I'll have something else to ride. Hopefully, this quad will live up to the hype of this thread.

[jkiserracing]

Originally posted by Scro
Hopefully, this quad will live up to the hype of this thread.

Thats for sure.....if not, at least it made for some interesting reading!

[One_Bad_400]

hopefully the shocks will switch over with no adjustment

[arTuReX]

So Dealers should start selling them by september???

[ThePhantomRider]

I'm hearing not quite that soon but you all should know what's up by then...The sentiment is they are still liquidating as much of the current stock as possible.

With the economy starting to pick up and the 450 class getting "stale" as Yamaha has already dropped their new quad for the next few years, Can-Am is not making any significant changes soon, Suzuki has been working on freshening up the LTR and Kawasaki a couple years away before a noticeable update, Honda looks to fill the gap.

My best guess is they will drop late October early November if the current market movement continues to climb AND they can sell off as much of what's left as possible.

They really don't want to have too many old R's competing with new ones...However they also know that like every new model, some brand purists will like the old R better (to each his own) and buy up the remaining models at a steep discount.

TPR

[arTuReX]

How about the Price, is gonna be competitive or they will be on KTM's range? Are they gonna sell one XC, one MX or one bike fits all?

[troybilt]

I wish someone would just spill the beans already... I can take the suspense... :grr:

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider

My best guess is they will drop late October early November if the current market movement continues to climb AND they can sell off as much of what's left as possible.

...buy up the remaining models at a steep discount.

TPR

I keep hearing this is the "delay" of the new 450R. Funny thing these "leftovers" are not as easy to come by as you say.

my whole understanding of the non 2010 release from Honda has less to do with the economy and more to do with Honda Building a whole new state of the art factory. One that will move the production of a long time American made Honda overseas.

but who knows :confused:

[hendershot106]

i dont care what honda does. they can wait till 2015 for all i care. Ill be riding my two yamahas..... You all can keep this thread alive speculating for years....waiting on honda....no thanks...

[desratt]

this thread and 100 others that are full of BS

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by desratt
this thread and 100 others that are full of BS

Naw. There's way more than 100.:o

[wild250rman]

Originally posted by hendershot106
i dont care what honda does. they can wait till 2015 for all i care. Ill be riding my two yamahas..... You all can keep this thread alive speculating for years....waiting on honda....no thanks...

Do I detect a little bit of jealously or is it a bit of worry?

[Pacheco_450r]

Do I detect a little bit of jealously or is it a bit of worry?

haha I think you nailed that one! If he was such a die hard yami fan why would he even look at a post on the new honda? hmmmmmm.

I'm looking forward to the new honda, I know it's a long wait but I think it's going to be worth it!

[Scro]

Hendershot used to ride Honda;)

[rpfeifer11]

Originally posted by Scro
Hendershot used to ride Honda;)

Someone is regretting the switch. haha

[arTuReX]

If all the rumors are true, he will regret waaaaay more!

[kfxracer72]

So whens the new honda comin out? Anybody know?

[XANDADA]

dying here, sold the 250r 6 months ago waiting for this. If it isn't 48-49" wide I'll be getting the yamaha. Anybody heard anything if it will be offered in a wide mx version?

[coryatver]

Originally posted by XANDADA
dying here, sold the 250r 6 months ago waiting for this. If it isn't 48-49" wide I'll be getting the yamaha. Anybody heard anything if it will be offered in a wide mx version?

the guy that started this thread already said its not going to be 50 inches wide.

The yamaha a-arms need replaced anyway. Yamaha messed up the a-arm mount locations on the frame messing up the castor and making it handle bad. They need a castor braket that requires the use of different a-arms to make handle decent.

[arTuReX]

Houser has a fix for the Yamaha Problem! is called the Cecco Bracket!

[benroels]

Typical Honda. Gotta wait for the REALLY good stuff. Just like a good woman.

ETA - the "good" part...

[taino_racing]

any news,ttt

[One_Bad_400]

UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE!!! BREAKING NEWS FROM HONDA!!!!



Wait longer, thanks.

[Miguel1994]

Do you know something new?

Just tell us if you want to.

[One_Bad_400]

ok ok, sense its efi, there will be an injector button, almost like NOS bot not as dangerous. just when your powering it out in the hole shot and you just cant seem to get your front wheel past the guy beside you. you hit the red button, inject more fuel, alakazam your past him. :macho

[Miguel1994]

Is that true?
This ATV will rock!!!

Lol:devil:

[arTuReX]

Originally posted by One_Bad_400
UPDATE UPDATE UPDATE!!! BREAKING NEWS FROM HONDA!!!!



Wait longer, thanks.



Thanks Honda, will do!

[Lquad71]

will it have a motor like the 2009 crf450 or will it have a bigger/stronger trani for obvious reasons

[hndabestonearth]

i heard its not even going to be a quad, its going to be a trike with a wooden frame. but that could just be a rumor

[Smoker]

Lol, wooden frame with spoke rims and 6 inch wide seat, oh yeah that's a 2 wheeler. As far as trying to like a company ATV wise, Honda really blows. They do know what they're doing for the most part when they build something, getting them interested to build what they should build is the hard part.

[One_Bad_400]

no no no. the frame isn't wooden. i don't know where you heard that from. its very compact styrofoam(sp?) with a special resin pored into it for extra strength. VERY light and super strong. and going green :macho

[atvracin74]

i heard its not gonna be a quad or trike at all... i heard it will be evolved beyond wheels and hoover!

[benroels]

...It's going to be a vacuum cleaner?

[OutlawBill]

If they are going to release it this year I say some time around September October time. Honda likes to race new quads in the Baja 1000 in November.

[curryd]

Originally posted by OutlawBill
If they are going to release it this year I say some time around September October time. Honda likes to race new quads in the Baja 1000 in November.

That might be true, if Honda actually stayed in racing. I still can't believe they pulled out of everything, except dirt bike racing. Actually come to think of it, they never really had a "factory" rig like the other manufacturers for us quad riders.

[OzLinc]

Originally posted by OutlawBill
If they are going to release it this year I say some time around September October time. Honda likes to race new quads in the Baja 1000 in November.

I've been told all the new models will be unveiled at the Honda dealer conference July/August.

Linc

[Smoker]

I heard Piston Honda is going to do the unveiling...



http://media.techeblog.com/images/punch_out_movie_2.jpg





Really got to stop drinking and posting....

[coryatver]

the new honda!

http://www.aolcdn.com/ch_autos/20090924_honda_u3x_segway_1

[froggyboy88]

anyone got some real info?

[One_Bad_400]

no one will have any info untill it is out. then you and i and john doe will know.

[froggyboy88]

soneone does just a matter of if they are part of the forum and are willing to share. I suggest not though!

[Rich250RRacer]

1989

[Lquad71]

This guy claims to have ridden it!!!!!
http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=441840&perpage=10&pagenumber=2

[troybilt]

Originally posted by Rich250RRacer
1989

Agreed. back then an article in 3&4 wheel action Jan 1990, there was without a doubt claimed 1990 trx250r was on its way, and we know how that all turned out!

Hope we're wrong.

[Lquad71]

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=441840&perpage=10&pagenumber=2

Does the guy in this post have accurate info from what you know.
He claims he has ridden it. He explains that it has a ticarbon hex frame
reverse motor like the ATK and new YZF450
weird for a honda, but right side chain
49" wide

TPR, Does this sound like the 2011 TRX450R that you speak of?

[Scro]

I can't believe you are taking that post seriously.

[Hondamaster5505]

LOL it takes all kinds of people.. You guys honestly believe he rode one? It was obviously a joke.

Damn people.

[IRISH-RACER-14]

i dont think their will be another one:ermm:

[One_Bad_400]

bwahahahahaha it was a joke buddy

WTF is ticarbon anyways, i made it up :p

[Miguel1994]

I thought so.

Who wants an hexagonal frame?

[Miguel1994]

But what happaned with the 250R?
Why did they stop making them, that it was suchs a nice machine and the best that is was ever made.

They stop maing the ATC's too and i do not know why.

[Miguel1994]

But what happaned with the 250R?
Why did they stop making them, that it was suchs a nice machine and the best that is was ever made.

They stop maing the ATC's too and i do not know why.

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by Miguel1994
I thought so.

Who wants an hexagonal frame?

Hex is actually very strong structure. have had a few friends with custom built hex stearing stems. strong stuff

[Hondamaster5505]

Originally posted by Miguel1994
But what happaned with the 250R?
Why did they stop making them, that it was suchs a nice machine and the best that is was ever made.

They stop maing the ATC's too and i do not know why.

Government regulations, lawsuits, a bunch of things... Remember, back then, ATV's were like a mutant step child.. they were looked at as death machines.

Same with the three-wheelers.. they had to end production because too many people were getting seriously hurt or killed and filing lawsuits.

These days the industry has grown so much, I don't think we'll ever see ATV's dissapear, at least anytime soon.

[One_Bad_400]

then how can they legally make harley trikes?

[D Bergstrom]

Originally posted by Miguel1994
But what happaned with the 250R?
Why did they stop making them, that it was suchs a nice machine and the best that is was ever made.

They stop maing the ATC's too and i do not know why.

Lawsuits pretty much killed the 250R, don't think the goverment had much to do with it. You figure Suzuki still made its quads for a couple more years and the Banshee was around forever. If you look at msrp's, the 89 250R was quite a bit more expensive then the previous years. I always heard it was so Honda could pay its legal bills!


Originally posted by One_Bad_400
then how can they legally make harley trikes?

Totally different machine, don't hear of to many people hurting themselves on one of them. Plus they have a much longer wheelbase and are much wider, not as twitchy as a ATC. I am pretty sure there was goverment regs for offroad three wheelers that pretty much killed them, plus all the lawsuits didn't help.

Doug

[wild250rman]

It was called the consent decree honda had to stop production of all race oriented atv's for 10 years because of all of the law suits over mostly 3 wheelers and since the trx 250r was based of the atc it suffered also. as soon as it ended in 1999 they came out with the 400ex to take its place.

Honestly the 400ex IMO was the revolution quad. Back in the early 2000's who didnt have a 400ex? You would go to a riding spot or the track and thats all there was. I wish I would have taken pictures from back then of that stuff. Parking lots full of 400ex and 250r.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
All I can say is this thing is SMOOOOTHHH....

Smooth ride, smooth power delivery....

Thing pulls clean through the RPM range.

Will it be everyone's cup of tea? No, nothing is, but it will continue the tradition of Honda building a great quad that becomes the best base to build a race quad around.

Outside of factory Suzuki, Honda has been up front from MX to Desert.

You're all gonna love this thing!!!

Red will rise again....very soon!!!

TPR

EFI, aluminum frame, KYB shocks, and reverse like the KFX 450R?

[fastredrider44]

Originally posted by FlewByU352
Honestly the 400ex IMO was the revolution quad. Back in the early 2000's who didnt have a 400ex? You would go to a riding spot or the track and thats all there was. I wish I would have taken pictures from back then of that stuff. Parking lots full of 400ex and 250r.

It really was. Granted the ideal racer up until 2004 was an aftermarket 250R, but the 400EXs were a much cheaper platform to build a racer out of. Until the 450s came out, everything was compared to a 400.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by fastredrider44
It really was. Granted the ideal racer up until 2004 was an aftermarket 250R, but the 400EXs were a much cheaper platform to build a racer out of. Until the 450s came out, everything was compared to a 400.

I just don't understand why Honda screwed up the rear end suspension?... And furthermore, never has fixed it.

Seems to me all they had to do was stuff a 4 stroke in the 250R.

[Lquad71]

is the new honda going to be kickstart optional, or only electric. i really they let you have a kickstart option.

[Smoker]

Originally posted by Lquad71
is the new honda going to be kickstart optional, or only electric. i really they let you have a kickstart option.

They need to have both, IMO. Even with EFI, they need to have the back up kicker with capacitor for starting. You could always take one or the other off if you wanted to save weight.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Smoker
They need to have both, IMO. Even with EFI, they need to have the back up kicker with capacitor for starting. You could always take one or the other off if you wanted to save weight.

Absolutely... need to have both on them... and the capacitor also.

But again, I'd almost bet money it won't.

The bikes always have stuff for many years before the quads get it.


I'd almost bet they will all be E-start, no capacitor... with the kicker as an optional kit... but still no capacitor.

[hotrodhonda400]

as much as I'd like to see a new 450 , I bet it only exist in this thread. With all the new old stock still out there I bet this speculation will go till 2012.

[desratt]

couldn't just stuff it in a 250r frame.. the 400 engine destroys those frames.. it weighs about twice the weight and is more then twice the size ... I tried it...but the 400 frame is pretty close to the 250r in geometry

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by desratt
couldn't just stuff it in a 250r frame.. the 400 engine destroys those frames.. it weighs about twice the weight and is more then twice the size ... I tried it...but the 400 frame is pretty close to the 250r in geometry

Except for the rear end... the swinger and rear suspension setup.

[OzLinc]

I still think the new model will be released next month and will have everything as mentioned in previous posts.........plus IRS

[Smoker]

Honda=Super Conservative Business Model. The won't do anything ground breaking like IRS on their top sport model, not sure why we're talking about 1989 technology being implemented in a 2011 model. Honda certainly won't add a back up kicker with cap to run the EFI brain, it would be an option that you pay for the teeth for or will most likely keep it as is, kick or electric. They have to release an updated sport/race quad at this point since they are getting left in the dust technology wise.

Despite Honda being a company that doesn't offer factory backing or is as cutting edge as other companies, we will still run like idiot lemmings to buy everything they make because it says Honda on it. After the 450R's past engine failures, I would certainly be hard pressed to be think about another red ride, I think KTM looks better and better everyday, at least they (along with some other companies) are building bikes that are more race oriented from the showroom floor.

I know these thoughts are disturbing to Honda loyalists but it irritates the crap out of me that they don't support ATV's like they should, then again, why do they need to, like I said, we all buy Honda blindly even if the crank bearings are substandard and explode after ten hours, not that I'm still bitter about it or anything, lol.

[amiller67]

Im not getting my hopes up, but everyone knows how honda is, they stick to what is reliable, update the plastic and thats about it

personally id like too see efi on the 450 and liquid cooling on the 400

[speedracer350X]

All speculation aside, back in in Sept of last year, Honda sent me an owners survey about my 2007 450er. It was a pretty well thought out questionaire, with a section at the end where you could write your own comments. Leads me to believe they have something in the works. Have no idea what though.

[turbo j]

I feel, by Honda standards, the timing is right for a new model.

02 CRF then a new 04 TRX 450R
09/10 FI CRF 450 probably a 2011 FI TRX 450R

[ThePhantomRider]

The quad has been done for about a year now. All that separates us from it is if Honda has reduced it's current supply of last generation models to warrant the release of the new one and proceed with prepping it's assembly line. That's really the only thing I don't know is when that will happen. I've heard conflicting reports about leftover models so we'll have to wait and see. Retooling should already be done if they are indeed going with the new model as they have not made any of the current model 450's for quite some time so they should be quick on the ramp up.

If they have given the new quad the green light by now, they should have a solid supply ready for when the release date occurs.

TPR

[ThePhantomRider]

The quad has been done for about a year now. All that separates us from it is if Honda has reduced it's current supply of last generation models to warrant the release of the new one and proceed with prepping it's assembly line. That's really the only thing I don't know is when that will happen. I've heard conflicting reports about leftover models so we'll have to wait and see. Retooling should already be done if they are indeed going with the new model as they have not made any of the current model 450's for quite some time so they should be quick on the ramp up.

If they have given the new quad the green light by now, they should have a solid supply ready for when the release date occurs.

TPR

[DEVINF450R]

I WILL DEF BE ON BOARD WITH THIS ONE! Esp since they have had so long to work out the glitches.

[quadpornstar]

I'm thinking August, when Honda releases the info to the dealers, is when we will get our first look at the newbie. Patiently waiting untill then myself...

[ltr450rider21]

did you hear any news of the new suzuki?

[coryatver]

last Tuesday 7/20 they released the rest of the 2011 models. The ranchers and the 250ex. They already released the 2011 recon, foreman, rubicon, rincon back in feb. Pretty much no changes at all. Looks like the 250ex is the only sport quad honda has now lol

They also released the 2011 mx bikes. They got a few changes.

At least I hope they make a few new 450rs even if they don't make any changes. I don't want it to go the way of the 250r.

[JParisi48]

idk, i dont want honda to make a lot of changes to thier 450s. they are awesome now. i just feel like they will have problems even after a year of workin the glitches out. i hope they do still make 450s though even if they dont have changes

[Miguel1994]

Sorry about telling it, but I think there will not be a 2011 450R.

They stoped the project until the crisis go out.
But I am not 100% sure.

[arTuReX]

All we have to do is wait!, by September we'll now for sure!

[Miguel1994]

How are you so sure?

I have some contacts in Honda and they told me that there will not be a new 450.

Maybe they are gone to release a new 120 utility ATV.

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by Miguel1994
Sorry about telling it, but I think there will not be a 2011 450R.

They stoped the project until the crisis go out.
But I am not 100% sure.

You are partially right, they've been waiting until the economy rebounds AND they sell off enough existing inventory before releasing the new 450. There IS a new 450, it's done and just waiting for it's time.

Honda is not stupid, there's no sense in releasing a new model if they have to then sell off the existing model at near loss levels.

TPR

[Miguel1994]

But do you agree with me, do you think there will not be a new 450 in 2011, too?

[curryd]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
You are partially right, they've been waiting until the economy rebounds AND they sell off enough existing inventory before releasing the new 450. There IS a new 450, it's done and just waiting for it's time.

Honda is not stupid, there's no sense in releasing a new model if they have to then sell off the existing model at near loss levels.

TPR

I understand their dilemma, but all manufacturers go through it. Yamaha had to sell the old units for cheaper because of the new yfz450r. They need to come out with it soon, or everyone will get annoyed with them and switch to other brands. I am a die-hard Honda fan, great reliability, but every manufacturer makes a good machine to start with. Everyone switches them to their preference. Maybe only KTM has a true race ready machine, but even they get modded for personal preference.

[atvracin74]

ok this is stupid because once u get done rebuilding the engine/entire bike it doesnt even matter what year it is?

[ltr450rider21]

is there any news on the new suzuki's...?

[IRISH-RACER-14]

there cant be that many leftover 450r left?

[One_Bad_400]

Originally posted by ltr450rider21
is there any news on the new suzuki's...?


ya, they suck :blah:


this is the TRX forum. might get a better answer on the LTR forum. but i would guess nothing is different

[coryatver]

they can't have much inventory left. I know they are hard to find around here anyway. And the dealers that have gotten them recently bought stock from other honda dealers going out of buisness and they sold brand new ones for $4,200 and they went pretty quick.

So if your saying they have the quad designed, they have all the tooling done. They have all this invested into it $$$$. They are not making the rest of the sport quad models other than the 250x so they got the facilities to build this thing. Why the Heck are they not making them?? How about giving customers something exciting and a reason to stop by there local honda dealership?

Why wouldn't they make some even if not at full capacity? There are still lots of people with money heck lots of guys I know would probley drop the same cost as the quad in aftermarket parts for it after getting it.

I see lots of brand new Yamaha yfz R/Xs at the race track. And you got to put in 5 grand to make them decent for xc and people are doing it so don't tell me people don't have money. Lots of them where guys that were last riding hondas but seriously yamaha is the only company making a current year model that is not complete junk (stock its not far from it) its getting ridiculous

[parts eeter]

I need someone to direct me to a dealer so I can snag one of those 4200 deals on a leftover. Drop me a PM and give me a heads up. I got the itch to ride again and need a leftover.
East Coast any states close to NC..

[tjsdaname]

sorry to tell you guy's, but it's not coming......

[MrcsBud2]

Idk how there are still hella leftovers? out here theres not much. Give it a month and if nothings out then dont expect anything for another 2 years

[fatboy666]

they need to do something. i mean the 450s now are great but to have a full out race machine you have to be bill gates and drop your life savings into it.

honda has really fallen behind everyone else the past few years.

i mean look at yamaha they have sport quads ranging from 90cc to 700cc

honda has the 90, 250ex(junk) plain old 300, the same 400 from 99, the 450, and the stupid irs 700

they need to come out with a whole new line.

90cc, 125cc, 250(non shaft driven, something that could be raced) like with a crf engine on it, maybe a 350 instead of the boring old 300, updated 400, 450xc and 450r race versions, 700 with irs and standard suspension option.

they really need to step it up. i love honda, always have, but they indeed falling wayyy behind the competition..

[Miguel1994]

Yeah, you are right.

I hope Honda was seeing our posts so that they cold know what people thinks.

But, at the same time you are wrong, just think as I think.
If Honda made that all line you are thinking on, would you buy any of them? Plus the 450, maybe?
I think no.
So much of the people that would know that Honda ATVs are good machines would not buy it.

Honda cares about that people that wents at the dealer, see a nice machine easy to ride, good price and that stuff... and people buy it...
They do not matter if the quad is crape or no because they do not know how to apreciate it.

Thats what I think about how Honda manage to do their quads.

But for us. They are making crapy quads, look at the 700, it is not a bad quad but is looks like the BMW X1 you do not konw if it is a car or a SUV.

[hndabestonearth]

I think the current model 450Rs are a great base for a race machine, but its just not enough. Honda needs to start giving back to their customers. It shouldn't matter to them if they take a loss due to the remaining stock of old 450s. What should be priority to them is getting a new model out the door to give customers what they want, and have been patiently waiting for.

I have been loyal to Honda for years. They have stood the test of time and survived abuse over and over, but when you see other manufacturers putting out new machines with advancements, your eye starts to wander. Honda can hold on to their new 450 and release it when ever they like while they clear old stock, but what does the release matter when half their old customers are now sitting on something that's not red? I have high hopes for the new model, but the new KTM's and Yamaha's are starting to look pretty nice in the mean time....

[coryatver]

Originally posted by hndabestonearth
I have high hopes for the new model, but the new KTM's and Yamaha's are starting to look pretty nice in the mean time....

what new ktms? They are done with quads

[hndabestonearth]

I was referring to the ones that have been out for a couple of years now, I still consider them 'new'.

[Hondamaster5505]

The way I see it, is every day Honda waits to release it's new model, is another day people buy another brand instead of a Honda.

[Ichoptop]

I have been riding hondas since the ATC days. I have watched the market bounce up and down but I dont recall Honda ever sitting back like they have in the last 5 years. Honda was always mid to back pack in upgrading models but the reliabilty was there so I stay loyal. But, If they dont give us something we can use for 2011 then I will be looking for a different mfg.

Yamaha is playing with injection (im not an injection guy but its good to see them trying to move forward) and other mfgs coming out with really nice hp numbers and starting to give buyers choices with in models (cc vs mx). KTMs race ready was a really nice prize to hit the market.

Every mfg has its loyalists and the Honda guys talk smack about Yamaha and KTM bags on Kaw. and everyone bags on Can Am. But reality is all the mfgs build a very descent product that are very comparable to each other. The reliabilty has really come up with all models, the quirks and bugs that we saw in the 80s and 90s are pretty much long gone so if Honda thinks they can sit back on the history of the company and thinks everyone will be riding red then I think they are sadly mistaken.

please not that this is only about sport quads. I really dont think the utility quad guys worry so much about serious innovation in the market like we do. I may be mistaken since I know nothing about that market.

So lets all pray to God, or Allah or the UFO coming out of the western sky that Honda will release something that puts the market on its ear otherwise there will be some really pissed of formerly loyal customers.

[fatboy666]

Originally posted by Ichoptop


So lets all pray to God, or Allah or the UFO coming out of the western sky that Honda will release something that puts the market on its ear otherwise there will be some really pissed of formerly loyal customers. [/B]



AMEN

[Modifly]

well i have sold up my 05 hondas and bits in wait for this new 2011 bike, hopefully they will produce or i will be building a ktm... i live in hope! any news on the release date ? as it will be atleast a month until i recieve mine with shipping and import etc then build time and test time before next season. cutting it abit close!

[Miguel1994]

You can start thinking about buying you KTM because Honda WILL NOT RELEASE THE 2011 450R, maybe ins 2012 or 2013.
the economy is not ready yet...

[Modifly]

they built that bike knowing the economy was sh*t and will continue to be for a a long time after - they wouldnt have started if they wernt prepared to realese it. If they already have it built, tested to the brink they would be stupid not to realese it as they wont see anything back from the development/manufacturing costs for a long time.. and by that time other big brands will have moved there bikes on and honda will be back to square 1 realeasing a bike that might be second class.

[Miguel1994]

They started doing the the so much time ago.

i have a 2009 450 ER, one of the last ones, bought it 2 weeks ago.
But my uqad has already been done since 18 of June 2008.
i think a bit ago they started the project os the new 450R that would be realese in 2010. But then the economy just broke...

[froggyboy88]

Originally posted by Miguel1994
You can start thinking about buying you KTM because Honda WILL NOT RELEASE THE 2011 450R, maybe ins 2012 or 2013.
the economy is not ready yet...
i dont think you can make such a definitive statement unless you know. And i dont think you know. You are possibly just misleading people.

[Miguel1994]

I am not sure about my statment but have some contacts in Honda Portugal and they told that there was a project for the new 450R but then economy came down and they stoped it.

He als talked me about a new 120 utility quad but I do not believe it.
If it there was to be we would now it already.

[DnB_racing]

its not a big deal !!!!!NO 2011!!!!!! you guys make me laugh! everyone acting like its the end of the world!!so what Honda doesn't want to make a race quad and they haven't since 89.Why would they make a true race quad when they dont sell? buy an 04-09 and build it, cause Honda wont!! honda doesnt have a race team, and they DONT CARE ABOUT RACING!!! havent you relized that yet!!

[DEVINF450R]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
its not a big deal !!!!!NO 2011!!!!!! you guys make me laugh! everyone acting like its the end of the world!!so what Honda doesn't want to make a race quad and they haven't since 89.Why would they make a true race quad when they dont sell? buy an 04-09 and build it, cause Honda wont!! honda doesnt have a race team, and they DONT CARE ABOUT RACING!!! havent you relized that yet!!

I hate to say it but this is a GREAT point. Honda bailed in '89 and they may have done it again. Say what you want though, the 06-09 450r's are the bike of choice for the budget racer that needs an A-class or better race bike (for MX anyways).

[motofreak2772]

I dont care about a race ready quad... I just want a better frame and engine. Racers will change everything anyways but the two things that we can't change can be improved. I hope they realease a new quad but still has all the sucky components.

[OutlawBill]

no 2011 Honda 450 on CAB tested page :rolleyes:

[hsr]

Originally posted by OutlawBill
no 2011 Honda 450 on CAB tested page :rolleyes:

what is CAB tested page?

[OutlawBill]

Originally posted by hsr
what is CAB tested page? it is realy CARB Cailf version of the EPA but worst

http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/cert.php

[OzLinc]

Doesn't mean much.........the 700XX wasn't on CARB until after it was announced by Honda.

[Butter]

Originally posted by DEVINF450R
I hate to say it but this is a GREAT point. Honda bailed in '89 and they may have done it again. Say what you want though, the 06-09 450r's are the bike of choice for the budget racer that needs an A-class or better race bike (for MX anyways).

Best thing said on here yet!! How about everyone goes into the For Sale section and check out everyone with a KTM, LTR, KFX, etc. and ask them why they will trade for a TRX of equal value. I was hoping they released a new one so I could buy parts, maybe even another bike for CHEAP because everyone now, for some reason views the current 450R has "obsolete" :devil:

[450r07]

Originally posted by motofreak2772
I dont care about a race ready quad... I just want a better frame and engine. Racers will change everything anyways but the two things that we can't change can be improved. I hope they realease a new quad but still has all the sucky components. I agree everyone has their own style of how they want their bike to look like, and we all know that EVERYONE rides different from each other. So what that other bikes come race ready from the factory. Do you see any of the pro riders riding on a completely show room stock quad. Honda will do what they want when they want. And most of the Honda lovers like me that i know will b**** until they do, but they will still go out and buy one just because its a Honda.

[DnB_racing]

I wont buy a Honda cause its a Honda and im sure most are the same, i buy a Honda now because its easy to maintain and inexpensive for the quality and it fits my riding style, and many aftermarket supports Honda. ive worked on and riden and owned just about every 450 out there including KTM

if another company was as user friendly as Honda and as cheap I would buy it!! I really like the thought that went into a KTM to make it race MAINTAINCE ready

[motofreak2772]

Originally posted by 450r07
I agree everyone has their own style of how they want their bike to look like, and we all know that EVERYONE rides different from each other. So what that other bikes come race ready from the factory. Do you see any of the pro riders riding on a completely show room stock quad. Honda will do what they want when they want. And most of the Honda lovers like me that i know will b**** until they do, but they will still go out and buy one just because its a Honda.
I was thinking about it and realized that these "race ready" machines are good for the sport(motocross). If someone seen the sport for the first time on the internet and said hey I want to buy a quad and go to the local race track, they would **** themselves when they realize how much money it takes to get started. The same person could easily buy a dirtbike for half the price and go have a good time and even compete to a point. Buying a stock trx to try out at the track would be rediculous and not even fun. I like how suzuki has alright suspension, wide, and comes with the right size tires.Honda needs to do what suzuki did because its not like it would cost that much more to add 2 inches and get smaller wheels. This way the new comers can decide whether they want to start dumping money into the bike and race or just keep it for fun. What atv motocross really needs is new comers, and since honda has such a big influence on buyers they can control our fate. But I still think the frame and engine is the most important thing. They need engineers and what not designing the quad for motocross specifically, if their frame and engine is the best, people will easily switch. The frame needs to be light, strong and have good geometry that will make any racer faster; and the engine needs to be reliable, light and easy to get power out of.
Well there's my rant, I wish someone who actually mattered could see our opinions but I seriously doubt they have or ever will.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by motofreak2772
I was thinking about it and realized that these "race ready" machines are good for the sport(motocross). If someone seen the sport for the first time on the internet and said hey I want to buy a quad and go to the local race track, they would **** themselves when they realize how much money it takes to get started. The same person could easily buy a dirtbike for half the price and go have a good time and even compete to a point. Buying a stock trx to try out at the track would be rediculous and not even fun. I like how suzuki has alright suspension, wide, and comes with the right size tires.Honda needs to do what suzuki did because its not like it would cost that much more to add 2 inches and get smaller wheels. This way the new comers can decide whether they want to start dumping money into the bike and race or just keep it for fun. What atv motocross really needs is new comers, and since honda has such a big influence on buyers they can control our fate. But I still think the frame and engine is the most important thing. They need engineers and what not designing the quad for motocross specifically, if their frame and engine is the best, people will easily switch. The frame needs to be light, strong and have good geometry that will make any racer faster; and the engine needs to be reliable, light and easy to get power out of.
Well there's my rant, I wish someone who actually mattered could see our opinions but I seriously doubt they have or ever will.

The problem with this is : the kid going to the track isn't the one buying the quad, its his father and his father wants a hunting quad with 4 wheel drive!! and Honda knows this is were the money is

[450r07]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
The problem with this is : the kid going to the track isn't the one buying the quad, its his father and his father wants a hunting quad with 4 wheel drive!! and Honda knows this is were the money is AGREED:D

[OzLinc]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
The problem with this is : the kid going to the track isn't the one buying the quad, its his father and his father wants a hunting quad with 4 wheel drive!! and Honda knows this is were the money is

Yeah but they haven't got a serious 4x4 either. The Rincon is not up to par when it comes to big bore quads.

[motofreak2772]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
The problem with this is : the kid going to the track isn't the one buying the quad, its his father and his father wants a hunting quad with 4 wheel drive!! and Honda knows this is were the money is
Yeah but I'm talking about the people who want to try motocross. A lot of people see motocross and want to try it, Im sure some even look at ATV motocross untill they realize the cost. I'm saying we need quads on the showroom floor that can hit the track, so when a kid walks in and says I want to race he may look at the quad as an option.
I've met a lot of kids who wished they could race quads but are stuck with dirtbikes simply because of the price to be competitive.

[chrisrzz1012]

Honda is keeping a wait and see approach in the atv market. Is it hurting them - well yes and no. The reason yes is because there so many other quads that are better feature wise and are more up to date so when someone wants to upgrade to a better quad they look elsewhere. But the no is because so many have been built that are in storage waiting to be bought. And the price on them have been discounted ( why has Honda not been discounting the 450r as much as others?). Plus they know the market is in a deep slump releasing anything new or out of the ordinary ( like a mx ready 450r) would be dumb. A good example is Polaris not having the 450 and 525s in there 2011 line-up. Plus KTM not even mentioning there quads at all on their website.

[DEVINF450R]

I agree with the mx ready quads.... c-class is made up of LTR's, yfxr's and 04-05 hondas that were already set-up for mx (relatively cheaply) when they bought it used. while most of the mx ready quads out there are high maintenance when you build the motors and intakes and start changing electrical components, they are still very good and reliable in stock form, which is exactly what a c-class racer needs. most c-class racers cant hang on to a fully built motor for an entire moto anyhow

[chrisrzz1012]

The kid racing MX on the bike instead knows that more money can be made on the bike instead of the quad. The cost difference between the 2 is alot cheaper on the bike then the quad. Thats one thing that the AMA should look at as a racing rule. The racing should be more production based then it is. A great example is Bill Ballance - How many championships and races won would he have won if it was production based ( like it is in on the bikes)? Not very many. I know for a fact that he was racing the YFZ-450R a year and half or 2 years before it was released. Thats why I'm not the biggest fan for the AMA and some magazines becuase they show a very one-sided look towards Yamaha.

[chrisrzz1012]

Thats why Honda and other companies just keep releasing BNG or the same every year. If the AMA and those mags realize that Honda was the fore father of the ATV industry not Yamaha. I've owned alot of Yamaha's before but everyone of them was nowhere in the same league as my Hondas. I've read the magazine and wonder what was done to them. And no I'm not bashing Yamaha but things need to be more even. The truth on thngs need to come out. It would be better for the sport/hobby and the industry. Plus we probably seeing more factories getting involved too.

[motofreak2772]

Originally posted by chrisrzz1012
The kid racing MX on the bike instead knows that more money can be made on the bike instead of the quad. The cost difference between the 2 is alot cheaper on the bike then the quad. Thats one thing that the AMA should look at as a racing rule. The racing should be more production based then it is. A great example is Bill Ballance - How many championships and races won would he have won if it was production based ( like it is in on the bikes)? Not very many. I know for a fact that he was racing the YFZ-450R a year and half or 2 years before it was released. Thats why I'm not the biggest fan for the AMA and some magazines becuase they show a very one-sided look towards Yamaha.
When kids first get into the sport they don't usually think about the money they can make. Even as an adult a lot of people do it just for fun, not to go pro or make money. If anything people would think it is easier to go pro as a quad racer(which may be true) and want to go that route.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by motofreak2772
When kids first get into the sport they don't usually think about the money they can make. Even as an adult a lot of people do it just for fun, not to go pro or make money. If anything people would think it is easier to go pro as a quad racer(which may be true) and want to go that route.
Honda isn't going to build a quad for a kid that is a going through a fad !or, Im going to grow up and be a race car driver or quad racer!! racing quads is a minority its not were the money is! most race quad are aftermarket anyways so why should a manufacture waste there money building something that's not needed!!! get used to the fact that if we want to race we have to build it ourselves ITS JUST NOT WORTH IT FOR HONDA
and there is no way you can say its good advertisement cause there are no crowds at the quad races i go to!!

[motofreak2772]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
most race quad are aftermarket anyways so why should a manufacture waste there money building something that's not needed!!! get used to the fact that if we want to race we have to build it ourselves ITS JUST NOT WORTH IT FOR HONDA

What are you talking about? It is not like they are paying to have it come stock with pep shocks. We just want it to come at an apropriate width and have the proper size wheels/tires. Its just little changes that will affect how it rides on a track that I want, and those changes won't add to the cost of building the quad. So wow they have an extra inch of material on each a-arm, but they pretty much make up for it with the smaller wheels...
Maybe even come stock with nerfbars and killswitch if they want to get risky.
If anything sticking the name race ready on a bike would generate more sales since people who don't know any better would be fooled.

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by motofreak2772
Its just little changes that will affect how it rides on a track that I want, and those changes won't add to the cost of building the quad.

You think it's that easy?

You need a whole new jig to build a longer a-arm. That cost money. You have to design it, prototype it, test it. Then you need a production run. That takes time. You have to set up an assembly line then run the product. That is a over simplification of what it takes for just one part.

I think a lot of people do not understand Honda and their philosophy. They pretty much invented the ride on ATV with the emphases on All Terrain. To them they value reliability and longevity over the current fad of the moment. They have never built a full race quad and it's unlikely the will. At least in the near future. They give you a base model that provides you with a solid platform on which to set up for your particular needs. While to some who think this is not smart consider the reputation of some older Honda's. The trx. 250R is a legend...despite the fact it was never a full on race quad like some believe. Is the Suzuki quadracer still highly regarded and sought after? How about the Tecate 4. Speaking of Tecates, look at the 3wheeler. Back in the 80's it was the trike to have if you were a racer. 20 some years later you see ATC 250R's with the same following the TRX has...the Tecates...lol...try keeping one running for any length of time.

10 years from now will people still be talking about the race only Suzuki or KTM quads...probably not but, all those old TRX 450R's will probably be still selling on the used market and tearing up the trails.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by motofreak2772
What are you talking about? It is not like they are paying to have it come stock with pep shocks. We just want it to come at an apropriate width and have the proper size wheels/tires. Its just little changes that will affect how it rides on a track that I want, and those changes won't add to the cost of building the quad. So wow they have an extra inch of material on each a-arm, but they pretty much make up for it with the smaller wheels...
Maybe even come stock with nerfbars and killswitch if they want to get risky.
If anything sticking the name race ready on a bike would generate more sales since people who don't know any better would be fooled.
your saying exactly what the problem is .........we want it this way.... meaning only the few of us writing about this..... the rest of the buying public want farm quads!!!dont you understand there is no interest in racing, from the majority of the people buying quads, or from the public, or the manufactures, racing isn't important to anyone but a very small percentage of us. Honda's been out of it for years and the rest arnt far behind!!
black sheep has it!!! if you want to race, find a good base model and build it!! thats as race ready as we will get..... and buy fooling the public. that will only cost them customers, just cause you want wide and low doesn't mean all racers do,, so are they supposed to have a mx, tt, gncc,short track, ice racing, drags..... or one that will have a little that they all want? which way do you think they would go?

im sure youve heard the phrase.. Logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few

[airmobile101]

Wish they made a quad that you could special order and dictate what is slapped on it or not. Meaning, a dealer could remove some stuff and you wont pay for it. Example, stock shocks, heel guards, taillight, etc.
Granted, it will not happen, but it would be cool if you could order a quad with the crap you only want. Afterall, if you race, chances are, your gonna upgrade the stuff anyways.

[DEVINF450R]

Highland seems to be on track with this type of thinking

[motofreak2772]

Originally posted by Black Sheep
You think it's that easy?

You need a whole new jig to build a longer a-arm. That cost money. You have to design it, prototype it, test it. Then you need a production run. That takes time. You have to set up an assembly line then run the product. That is a over simplification of what it takes for just one part.

Im talking about if they decide to build a whole new quad.. So they will already need a new jig, unless they use the same old a-arms as before.


Originally posted by DnB_racing
your saying exactly what the problem is .........we want it this way.... meaning only the few of us writing about this..... the rest of the buying public want farm quads!!!
Making it a little wider and a little lower will not cancel it out as a good farm quad. Most of the market is in 4x4s so why not just drop the whole sport line? Recreational riders are the ones buying these sport quads not farmers. All I am trying to say is that if Honda made the quad a little better performing it would be best for everyone.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by motofreak2772
Im talking about if they decide to build a whole new quad.. So they will already need a new jig, unless they use the same old a-arms as before.


Making it a little wider and a little lower will not cancel it out as a good farm quad. Most of the market is in 4x4s so why not just drop the whole sport line? Recreational riders are the ones buying these sport quads not farmers. All I am trying to say is that if Honda made the quad a little better performing it would be best for everyone. the only thing wrong with this is if you asked 10 different people from different riding styles and riding terrain, you would have 10 different things that they would want too see on a quad!!I like airmobiles Idea.... instead of adding things give us the option of NOT having things pre installed:

[ThePhantomRider]

Quad is done, all the tooling is done since there have been no new 450'rs built for about 2 years now. So when production begins they will be off the ground quick.

Typically when we get a first look at a new quad it takes months to reach dealerships and in small numbers, that's because from reveal date to release date they create permanent production line jigs and equipment, build quads on that line, re-test them and then start building. Honda is past that...I'm willing to bet when you see the first look, it will be a production ready unit.

As for the "custom order" quad, that was actually something I pitched to Honda researchers 5 years ago. Using Honda's fabled "Star" line as a base I told them they could offer a basic 450 or you could have an option to order one. The models were...

"Trail Star" for GNCC centric riders
"Track Star" for racers and wannabe's
"Dune Star" well you get the picture

That way they don't have to build this many of one and that many of another. Also you don't want the dealerships wrenching if they don't need to.

Highland can do the custom route because they are more boutique builders than mass producers so they need to have that element to stand out which is a good thing.

There WILL be a new TRX, it WILL be worth the wait I only wish I had the insight into when Honda supplies will diminish enough to give the green light...or maybe they already have......:D

TPR

[tach13]

cant wait! ill be very interested in buying one from the sounds of it.

[quadpornstar]

Finally... Can't wait to see the new quad, and get one home. Thanks TPR for the facts...

[Miguel1994]

But is the quad gone be release this year.
i have some people on Honda Portugal that told me the release is gone was delayed to 2012 or even 2013.

[lasher45]

The way I look at it is that Honda will eventually come out with a new 450. They pretty much have too. However look what happened when the 400ex came out, all the hype about an mx quad and they gave us that. So we do not even know if its going to be some revolutionary quad or some piece of cr@p.

But what is Honda waiting for if they supposedly already have it done? TPR could be right in that they are waiting for the showrooms to clear.

But what if they were waiting until they KNEW people will buy it. Not that many people have money go out and buy a brand new quad that will cost upwards of $10,000 if its really race ready. Especially since a ton of people just bought Can-Ams or KTM's.

Let's face it, how many people would go and buy this "great" new 450r at this point in time? Only the die hard fans of Honda and the people who are looking for a top of the line quad out of the box. That's if they do not already have one. Ie Can-am, KTM. And of course those with a fatter wallet.

If I was Honda, I would spread little rumors around about a great "new" 450r, but withhold any information about the release date. Just to get people hyped up and exited for it. Then I would wait a few years (2 or 3) and finally release it when I KNEW that more people would buy it. If they release it now, nobody would be informed of its release. Where if they built up suspense more would know.

IF Honda was even coming out with something new I'm sure that's what their doing. Do you think Honda really cares that much about the individual rider? Companies that large are run on greed, that's how they become SO huge. All they look at is their cash flow. If that means waiting, you better believe they'll do it.

Not trying to bash Honda. I ride a 250r and love their products. I'm just giving my thoughts on the subjects. And to TPR not trying to put you down or prove you false. Again, just my thoughts.

[DnB_racing]

DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH WAITING!!!!!!!!

[ThePhantomRider]

Originally posted by Miguel1994
But is the quad gone be release this year.
i have some people on Honda Portugal that told me the release is gone was delayed to 2012 or even 2013.

You might be right, sorry to burst people's bubbles but again, what I can't predict is when Honda will flick the switch and make this a go...I believe we will get it sooner rather than later, but Honda is Honda, they really do not feel the pressure to just put it out there because we want it. As it's been stated here previously, they don't make their big money on 450's...or sport machines for that matter. Like the other MFG's they make their money on utilities because they serve multiple purposes, hunting, farming, patrol units....get the picture? Supply and demand dictates what is released.

That is why when people ask me if they should wait, I tell them it's their decision.

TPR

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by DnB_racing
DONT HOLD YOUR BREATH WAITING!!!!!!!!

^^ Agreed ^^ Go ride what you have. If and when it happens, then we parrrrrrty! :bandit: :muscle: :D

[WesYfz450]

Why can't the MFG's build an all round race quad? I think we could have both purpose built MX and XC bike built from the same hardware, just like the dirt bikes have purpose built bikes made from the same chassis. Both xc and mx could use the same +2 a-arms and shock componets, (but the mx version would need siffer valving) but use a 4+1 rim on the xc version and use a adjustable rear axle, and xc sized tires. All these parts could be shared except for the parts like tires, wheels, shock valving and gearing! This would save a hell of a lot of money for both Honda and the comsumer. It's shocks and a-arms that are the high dollar parts that cost a fortune to build a MX quad. I know that these parts would never be as good as a set of Fox shocks and Leager a-arms (it's not like the pro bike guys run stock forks and shocks anyhow) but it would be a good way to get C class riders to the MX or XC track cheaper. And that brings up another point, why have quads that haven't changed in 4 or 5 years $1000 to $1500 more in cost? I think this is a important factor in why sport quads aren't selling like they were 4 years ago (besides the economy being the major reason).

[coryatver]

I am becoming pretty depressed about this not just honda even the other manufactures are not coming out with 450s with a current model year


Honda- 2011s are out and no 450. current model is still an 09

Suzuki- there 2011 are out. current model 450 is still 09

KTM- done with quads last year was 09's

Polaris- 2011's are out. Only Outlaw irs is being made no race 450s current model is 2010.

Yamaha- 2011's are out. No yfz450's. Current model is 2010.

Only 2011 model year 450s are the back of the pack Kawasaki and Can Am models with no desperately needed changes. The whole sport atv picture is looking real bad right now. Pretty soon we will be racing aftermarket hybrids again lol

[MtnEX]

450's just ain't selling that good...

1- The economy

2- The 450's are not highly rec rider friendly

[Lasher]

Originally posted by coryatver
Pretty soon we will be racing aftermarket hybrids again lol

I cannot wait.

I started racing when there was only "highly modified" stock machines (250R) and hybrids (250R/CRF). I will admit I was excited about seeing all the production machines from the manufacturers but now, I hope the rules change and hybrids make a come back.

I will not be buying an OEM quad to race anytime soon.

[quadpornstar]

I am excited to see the new Honda 450r when it comes out. We own 2 Honda 450s now, an 06, and an 08. They are great quads, and we ride them a lot. However, our "spare" quad is a Laeger hybrid, and its amazing. Handling wise, the 450's are not even close. So to be honest, I would love to see the hybrid rules go away, and bring back the high dollar full race Laegers, Walsh, Houser, and Lone Star Hybrids.

[desratt]

all the manufactures you you mentioned haven't released ALL their 2011 quads just some of them... not saying they will have 450's but look at yamaha's new one they are still in... but the hondas are still fast.

[Ruf Racing]

One of the boys on the 250R side, just bought a brand new 08'. With these models still around, it looks like it may be awhile, before you see a new model. :(

[troybilt]

Our local dealer still has 06 er's leftover...

http://www.kirbyssupersports.com/new_vehicle_inventory.asp?sid=04548609X8K3K2010J12 I19I42JPMQ965R0&category=2&mfg=1&ModelYearFrom=1900&ModelYearThru=2011&PriceFrom=0&PriceThru=999999999&ModelSearch=450&submit=Search

[Lasher]

Originally posted by quadpornstar
However, our "spare" quad is a Laeger hybrid, and its amazing. Handling wise, the 450's are not even close.

Can some one explain to me how all the OEM cannot still get it right on handling?

Why do all the top riders (pro and lower) still NEED to replace swing-arms, A-arms (not width but adjustablity) to race motocross?

By a bike from the showroom, you can rider woods, race MX, putt around the yard. But a quad...you need to change everything to "improve" simple design flaws in geometry.

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by troybilt
Our local dealer still has 06 er's leftover...



My point exactly, Troy. Even more reason to think it won't be released in the too near future. :rolleyes:

[RobRacing]

Well the reason the pro's have to change a-arms, swingers and shocks is because the factory can't make the machines affordable to the public if they made them factory race bikes right out of the dealer. Even the factory Dirt bikes are way beyond what you can buy at the dealer you just can't tell as easily. You don't see a pro rally car racer racing a stock Evo nor do you see Nascar racers racing stock Fusions. The fact is that ANY professional motorsport requires extreme mods to the stock vehicle to make it perform the way it needs to in racing conditions there's just no way around it. It's not design flaws because all mods are based on the factory chassis its just the stock platform is not what it needs to be for pro racing.

[motofreak2772]

Originally posted by RobRacing
Well the reason the pro's have to change a-arms, swingers and shocks is because the factory can't make the machines affordable to the public if they made them factory race bikes right out of the dealer. Even the factory Dirt bikes are way beyond what you can buy at the dealer you just can't tell as easily. You don't see a pro rally car racer racing a stock Evo nor do you see Nascar racers racing stock Fusions. The fact is that ANY professional motorsport requires extreme mods to the stock vehicle to make it perform the way it needs to in racing conditions there's just no way around it. It's not design flaws because all mods are based on the factory chassis its just the stock platform is not what it needs to be for pro racing.
Yes thats the pros. But even C class you can't compete without extreme mods, unlike the dirtbikes where a stock bike can be setup to win a race. Its not that there are flaws in the design but that the designs can be improved. With the dirtbikes they have scientists out on the track coming up with the perfect angle for the frames. If they did that for the quads the aftermarket companies could have a way better platform to base off of and quads would be way better than what they are now.

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by RobRacing
Well the reason the pro's have to change a-arms, swingers and shocks is because the factory can't make the machines affordable to the public if they made them factory race bikes right out of the dealer. Even the factory Dirt bikes are way beyond what you can buy at the dealer you just can't tell as easily. You don't see a pro rally car racer racing a stock Evo nor do you see Nascar racers racing stock Fusions. The fact is that ANY professional motorsport requires extreme mods to the stock vehicle to make it perform the way it needs to in racing conditions there's just no way around it. It's not design flaws because all mods are based on the factory chassis its just the stock platform is not what it needs to be for pro racing.

said perfectly!!!everyone that is hoping on a Race ready or close to race quad are just dreaming you have a better chance on winning lottery. its time to realize that we have to customize our own quads the way we need it!! and stop complaining that Honda isn't giving us what we need. the fact is everyone wants something different and its just not cost effective for the manufactures to try to make everyone happy

[RobRacing]

When I raced the national a few years back in the C class with a pretty much stock 450R and was able to hold my own. I think some people think they have to have the fastest quad in the world but if you cant ride it your not going to win. Motocross isn't a drag race.

[OzLinc]

Originally posted by RobRacing
When I raced the national a few years back in the C class with a pretty much stock 450R and was able to hold my own. I think some people think they have to have the fastest quad in the world but if you cant ride it your not going to win. Motocross isn't a drag race.

BINGO!!!!!!!.........I've seen even higher class's won with a good rider on a relatively stock bike.

Most people don't need all that stuff to win. It's easier to spend money on parts than to spend time on setup.

[MtnEX]

Look guys... Honda is not exactly on the forefront of ATV innovation if you haven't noticed....

They have became over-comfortable in their market share on the ATV side. So their quad program as a whole is pretty darn prehistoric in scope.

Honda's forte is build a good machine... and if it sells, keep building pretty darn much the same machine absolutely as long as at all possible.

The 400EX is a real good example...
Born in 1999 as an update to a layout from 1987.
And now nearly 12 years later it's still relatively unchanged.

300EX... again born as an bore out of a 1987 platform... Still unchanged today almost 24 years later.


Not saying that they are bad machines.
Just pointing out how Honda does things.

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by MtnEX

The 400EX is a real good example...
Born in 1999 as an update to a layout from 1987.
And now nearly 12 years later it's still relatively unchanged.

300EX... again born as an bore out of a 1987 platform... Still unchanged today almost 24 years later.


Nothing needs to change on those bikes. They're a great build for their trail and sport riding.

Honda knows what their doing.

[Black Sheep]

Originally posted by MtnEX
Look guys... Honda is not exactly on the forefront of ATV innovation if you haven't noticed....




Honda invented the ride on ATV.

Honda created the ATV racing scene.

Honda put disc brakes on ATV's years before the mx bikes got them.

Honda was the first to pit suspension on a ATV.

Honda created the utility market.

Honda created the first 4wd ATV.

It was Honda that saved the ATV market when they sacrificed 3 wheelers in order to save the quads.

Honda was the first company to come out with a new performance quad when the consent decree act expired in 1998.


Pretty innovative if you bask me.

[IRISH-RACER-14]

i dont think much needs to be changed on the 300ex and 400ex. they are sport quads, not racing machines. even though its the 300ex and the 250x that are dominating the schoolboy classes. quads that are around for the last 20 years are still winning against the likes of the new raptor 250.

[sno-x139]

TPR

Any more info??

[ThePhantomRider]

Nothing for me to report today, but then again I haven't had time to look.

TPR

[island400ex]

Would honda not have released there lineup by this time of year?? Is it safe to say it's not happening this year?

[lasher45]

Safe to say its not happening for a couple years.

[chrisrzz1012]

I agree with alot of being said. The market right now is bleak for anyone coming out with a new quad. I would like to see the AMA do away with the hybrid rules but they never will because Yamaha has such a strangle hold on them. I've owned/ ridden alot of quads in my life but I always go back to Honda. I've owned just about every Yamaha sport quad ( blaster- 700 Raptor)and wasn't happy with them. Suzuki makes a good quads I owned/ridden alot of their's. You can say them same for Kawie ( the 450r is very good) . Polaris their was some good and bad ones ( the best was a KTM 250 2-stroke powered Predator/Outlaw). Can-Am also makes goods but I heard on here some horror stories about the motors ( ds-450). So my opinion can be taken like a grain of salt. My ideal quad would be Honda based Hybrid ( 400ex/450r) for cost savings. But for money no object a KTM 350 or Beta 450/Husky 450 hybrid.

[TeryxMudder]

Originally posted by BLU82
It might even have bold new graphics!!!!!:eek2:



THIS ;) bold new graphics

[island400ex]

Well it's really too bad, was really looking forward to a new 450! As I know many are, geuss I'll have to wait!

[TeryxMudder]

I don't know. My Older boy is after me for a new quad and the YfZ 450 X is looking pretty good. Plus my locol dealer has huge rebates on everything right now! 2010 YFZ's $4,999

[island400ex]

I was at dunefest a had the opportunity to try out the yfz, and I gotta say just didn't feel quite right. Of course it was in stock form and I am sure it has tons of potential, felt real narrow and front end felt too low as well as handle bars. Depends on the rider I am sure, but IMO I feel honda has the right formula for ergonomics!

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by island400ex
I was at dunefest a had the opportunity to try out the yfz, and I gotta say just didn't feel quite right. Of course it was in stock form and I am sure it has tons of potential, felt real narrow and front end felt too low as well as handle bars. Depends on the rider I am sure, but IMO I feel honda has the right formula for ergonomics!

I felt the same way, but then saw and tried the Kawasaki.

Ever been on one?

It changed my mind. Better ergos and better geometry. It feels like an old Roll Lobo chassis with a jacked up subframe... and that is about what it is.

The subframe and seat angle felt a little weird at first... but my long legs like it now because the transition from sitting to standing is better.

I like the TRX tank layout a lot better though. It's better all the way around.

[lasher45]

I've never rode anything besides a banshee, 250r and full walsh 250r. I have to admit the ergonomics are amazing on the 250r's. I have sat on the TRX 450r, YFZ 450r and a DS 450. All in stock showroom form. Obviously you can't tell much by just sitting, making brapping noises and pretending to lean. But I loved the way the DS 450 felt. Just the way the seat, plastic and handle bar were arranged made me feel comfortable. The YFZ felt a little odd to me, just the way the seat and everything was positioned. The TRX felt a little like a 250r except bigger and clumsier.

I have heard some great things about the KFX though. Even though the plastics and color are one of the ugliest. It seems to have a lot of good reviews. Suzuki I've heard mixed things about. I knew a guy who went through 3 tranny's in a season, but I know other people who have no problems. Like I said there's a lot of mixed reviews. I have not heard much about the KTM's however. What ever I have heard seems to point towards them being reliable and easy to work on, of course at a price though.

Personally if I had to chose a 450 it would be between a KFX, Can-Am and KTM. Then again I'm building a Walsh CRF hybrid lol.

If Honda wants to create another legacy ATV, they need to REALLY raise the bar. Not just one never before seen technique/part, but multiple. They would have to combine the best of all the sport models. The Suzukis power, the Can-Ams weight, Kawasakis handling and KTM's race ready stock form. Multiple models as well, and continue their reputation as being the most reliable.

[island400ex]

No I haven't tried the kfx, would like to though! The opportunity hasn't presented itself! I really wish you could line up the machines and test em out!

[MtnEX]

The KFX is the most MECHANICALLY reliable of the 450's and lives a long life.

It's weakness is in the electronic complications.

None of the other 450's including the honda have all that good of an engine reliability record. They don't live real long lives. Can-Am is most known for engine failure, then KTM, and then Suzuki for tranny problems. Yamaha and Honda have been better. But then you can find more of either that have had engine failures than you can find KFX owners that have had to make a valve adjustment so far.


Myself, I find the Honda 'reliability' a little entertaining. The truth of the matter is that ends with the 300EX in the sport lineup as far as I can tell. The 400 and 450 are pretty hard on engine internals.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by island400ex
No I haven't tried the kfx, would like to though! The opportunity hasn't presented itself! I really wish you could line up the machines and test em out!

Anymore you about have to have a lot of riding buddies with a lot of different machines to really be able to "try'em out" like you need to in order to come to real good conclusions.

I've been able to give all the 450's a workout at one time or another. Overall, I liked the KFX450R, LTR450 and 450XC best for top 3 and went with the KFX.

(I'm an XC rider)

I would like to ride the new Z400 and the 700R though, but have not had the opportunity to try them on a trail.

[Dave400ex]

The Honda is far better in the woods. I've known a few people racing them at the GNCC's that got rid of the KFX's and went to something else. They can be made to work, but have some issues. As for a 400ex being hard on internal parts, this is new to me. I had one for several years that was raced and never had any major issue. The 400's are very reliable.

The 450R and YFZ are the most popular when it comes to the woods. For MX I'd say the 450R or LTR are the way to go.

[Hondamaster5505]

I agree with MTN about the KFX.. one of the BEST feeling ergonomically comfortable 450's.. I love them.

BUT.. 400ex being hard on internals? 400ex's are bullet proof unless some idiot wanna-be mechanic tries to rebuild or build the engine.

[lasher45]

Our local champion (in NEATV) was running a KFX for the past two years, maybe more? But took both championships. Josh Creamer would come to a couple races, he was also on a KFX, and the two were probably close to 15 seconds ahead of the rest of the pro pack the last race. Now he's on a Can-Am, I think he's only podiumed once so far. :confused:

Just my observation, it looked like he was a lot more comfortable (and faster) on the KFX.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by Dave400ex
The Honda is far better in the woods. I've known a few people racing them at the GNCC's that got rid of the KFX's and went to something else. They can be made to work, but have some issues. As for a 400ex being hard on internal parts, this is new to me. I had one for several years that was raced and never had any major issue. The 400's are very reliable.

The 450R and YFZ are the most popular when it comes to the woods. For MX I'd say the 450R or LTR are the way to go.

I just don't like the honda, particularly in the woods.

The front end pushes and the rear end bucks. But now I have a friends that have put a ton of effort and money into this and they handle well in the woods now. So I understand it can be corrected.

I just didn't want to start out there, nor did I really want to be without reverse again.


But what the TRX and YFZ have going for them is POPULARITY. There were many many excellent heads at work on them in the aftermarket years before the KFX ever came out.

Then for woods racing, Kawi picks Yokely? Things got off to a flying leap backwards in popularity/confidence.

Privateers and amateurs have had troubles with getting good starts and went down with electrical problems during the race on the, and getting run down in the fields on the KFX. Those of us hard at it have figured out how to remedy that though.

Now we have a guy who is leading his local series points even though he missed a race. And we have more guys getting solid finishes all over. They are just as competitive as anything else if you can get a good start and stick it out to the finish.

We have figured out how to make that happen, we just need more experienced riders on them to get some numbers out there in the woods scene.

They have been strong in MX and can be in woods also.

[MtnEX]

The 400EX only really seems simple to me rather than so reliable. It's just that there are less things to go wrong.

But in truth I find they are pretty hard on rings/cylinder/piston.

Most guys just don't realize it because... when it starts puffing, the smoke is behind them... and they keep on kicking down the trails as they keep loosing compression... and guys don't know cause most don't keep up with monitoring the compression.

They are cold natured... or the carb needs rebuilding... right?... But truth is it's lost compression.

[island400ex]

I wouldn't say the 400ex is just a simple machine? It's an all around well designed quad, if it is used for it's intended purpose! If there are any problems you don't need to be a mechanic to fix it! It is definitely a do it yourself friendly quad! Also I believe it is one of the best quads for someone looking to climb the ladder in rider skill and maintenance. I bought two one for myself and one for my 16 year old son, we have learned to ride these machines well and with a manual do all our own work and mods!

[chrisrzz1012]

I own 2 400ex's ( 2003 and 2002) plus I'm building a 3rd to race only. My 2003 is all stock great for the trails. My 2002 is has 409cc kit in it plus some extras. Those quads are very reliable and easy to work on but they have there quirks ( cold natured and carb problems). The reason i'm building 3rd to race is easy I don't race MX but race GNCC or Hare-Scrambles thats it. Why not a 450 to race well its the reliablity issue plus with a 400ex may be less then 5mph on top-end. Plus this is what LRD told me this when Harold Goodman was racing for them in 2003 he had a 400z and 400ex half way through the season he was only on the 400ex. Plus if I want to go faster I get my Quadracer 250r.


2003 Honda 400ex- stock
2002 Honda 400ex- modded
450r front shocks
409cc (10-1)
K&N air filter
DG full exhaust
DG skid plate
2003/2000 Honda 400ex-racer
416cc(10-1)
ported head
LRD full exhaust
K&N air filter
450r carb
450r shocks
DG skid plate
05 style plastic
1986 Suzuki Quadracer 250R
265cc
ported head
FMF full exhaust
PEP triple rate w/ rezzys front shocks

[DEVINF450R]

when it comes to building a full mx race bike, it seems that Suzuki's and Honda's have a fewer percentage limping off the track, Can-Am seems to have the highest. and when an LTR or 450R is build RIGHT, they are very hard to beat. Joel Hetrick can keep his KFX where its at only by putting in a new motor every race.

btw back to the subject of this new release, I heard some disturbing news at Loretta Lynn's ATV National this weekend... apparently word is that this is Suzuki's last year of factory support and an INSIDE source told me that Can-Am was trying to buy out Chad's contract for next year so they could pull out as well :ermm:

[MtnEX]

Winning races on Sunday isn't selling new ATV's on Monday anymore boys...

This economy is broke and manufacturers are not too willing to throw such a budget at having a factory race team anymore.



And comparing race motor reliability doesn't carry a whole lot of weight with me.

Racers with the financial backing will run the best parts, mod to the max they can get one race from... and will run a fresh motor every race.

And racers will push their stuff too far and blow it up... some worse than others.

[quad2xtreme]

Perhaps the manufacturers pulling out would be a good thing. This will allow the aftermarket companies to get back into it more. Hopefully ATVA quickly changes the rules and does away with the production frame crap.

[fastredrider44]

This thread is just a little off topic for the moment. As for the guy that owns the KFX, your info is a little off, on just about everything you mentioned. :rolleyes:

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by fastredrider44
This thread is just a little off topic for the moment. As for the guy that owns the KFX, your info is a little off, on just about everything you mentioned. :rolleyes: you really cant expect almost 50 pages of posts to stay completely on topic!!its been pretty good I think for staying on point!

[quad2xtreme]

plus there is nothing new happening with the 450r right now.

[One_Bad_400]

there are still 3 left over 450r's at my local honda on the floor that have been there for 2+ years with $4999 price tags on them. left over stock is still high

[MtnEX]

They didn't expect the economy to tank, nor did they expect to loose so many sales to the other manufacturers.

So now it is a case of oops... we made too many... and now they will tick off too many dealers if they go and release another new model.

So I do believe it will be a new different model when it comes... cause I think honda gets the picture it has to be if it's going to sell... It will be different or look different I'd think. And I think they will hold as long as they can to release, hoping for an upturn in the economy.

[DEVINF450R]

Originally posted by MtnEX
Winning races on Sunday isn't selling new ATV's on Monday anymore boys...

This economy is broke and manufacturers are not too willing to throw such a budget at having a factory race team anymore.



And comparing race motor reliability doesn't carry a whole lot of weight with me.

Racers with the financial backing will run the best parts, mod to the max they can get one race from... and will run a fresh motor every race.

And racers will push their stuff too far and blow it up... some worse than others.


At no point did I say that races sell atv's, however reliability does. and there is a big big reason you see more LTR's and 450R's at mx races than any other brand... you can build them to the 9 and still have decent reliability and if you put a carb and kickstart on an ltr it becomes as reliable as the 450R. I hope Honda does release a new even better quad, but Im pretty happy with the one they have out now. my point with suzuki and can am backing out of racing was to emphasize that the economy is not looking any better for the manufacturers and racing is not a viable cost anymore... and neither is producing new race quads.

quad2extreme... i pray to god that we do not go back to aftermarket frames, racing is expensive enough

[MtnEX]

I didn't say you said it... I said it myself.
(Right)

Little is selling right now and it's just not a viable expenditure anymore for marketing purposes. So they are pulling out until things pick up and the spending budgets come back. And they are not likely to build more of something that already isn't selling.
(Right)

So I don't see what we are disagreeing on.


As far as what you are seeing at the track though... it's about MFG wins... and related popularity... length of time on the market... and so on...

So you see more Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha ATV's at any track than anything else. They have been in the 450 market longer, and enjoyed more general brand name popularity for a lot of years prior to now. Plus they have won more races because they have been at more of them, and also these MFG's have the money to recruit the best riders to get the wins.

It's not about what is better... but what is more popular... and what has better aftermarket support.

More % of the "others" are starting to show up a little at a time, but the big 3 will be real hard to unseat for a long time yet because they already had a leg-up for a long time.... and rightfully deserve that as well.... because they have spent many years doing a better job.


What I find the most entertaining about what I see at the track is.... I see guys go out there and run... and get their *** handed to them by some guys on a Hon/Yam/Suz (you choose) so they swap to the same machine.... and then still get there *** handed to them by the same riders.

:D

It would be unreal to see the number of woods racers that bought YFZ's because they saw Bill Ballance kicking *** on them... and you would be amazed how many more too-wide LTR450's there have been at the woods races the last couple years because of Borich dominating.

:D

[Lasher]

One comment that I will make...

Here in NEATV, the "other" manufactures are growing pretty quickly and it all has to do with contingency money.

Can-Am and KTM are paying good money (in cash) to race/win their quads. Nothing like that from the big 4!

[MtnEX]

I ought to be riding Can-Am because of their support of the sport, and what they have had in place to try to get people on DS450's....

And I was really really really tempted when they went all out last year. But I just don't like their motor for the woods.

It was still hard to talk myself out of trading the Honda on a DS450Xxc last year... what a steal!!!

[DEVINF450R]

Originally posted by Lasher
One comment that I will make...

Here in NEATV, the "other" manufactures are growing pretty quickly and it all has to do with contingency money.

Can-Am and KTM are paying good money (in cash) to race/win their quads. Nothing like that from the big 4!

bet some of that changes next year..... look at the classified forums, full national KFX's cant hardly be given away.... but its all in preference... im much faster on my stock powered walsh axis Honda than my full national kfx, but thats just me. I started on a honda and got faster on a ltr and now I ride a honda better than them all. I think most ppl ride hondas for power and reliability

[MtnEX]

Yeah, people just aren't spending money on these right now... small demand. And quad build ups are always a loosing proposition. Like my Honda... the bolt-ons alone are worth more than the whole quad would bring sold.


And yeah, preference and riding style are a big deal when choosing.... and so is the "arena"....

When I think about it hard, I don't know myself if I would be so comfortable with the KFX on a motocross track. I mean they handle really well, and they are obviously successful out there... but I still don't know...

I mean the body lines and such already bug me for XC use... and I'm not throwing down the wicked body english I would on a fast MX track. I think I'd want to be on an LTR or late YFZ out there.... flatter subframe angle, plastics down out of the way... that sort of thing.

[quadman21]

Ok, Back to the 2011 450. If my question has already been covered i apologize, i just haven't read all 40+ pages of this thread. I want to know if the 2011 will be COMPLETELY new like when the 450's first came out or will there just be upgrades like from the 05 to 06 models? Basically, will a buyer be able to transfer parts like shocks, a-arms, etc?

[troybilt]

Originally posted by quadman21
Ok, Back to the 2011 450. If my question has already been covered i apologize, i just haven't read all 40+ pages of this thread. I want to know if the 2011 will be COMPLETELY new like when the 450's first came out or will there just be upgrades like from the 05 to 06 models? Basically, will a buyer be able to transfer parts like shocks, a-arms, etc?

I'll save you some time and headaches, but about 10 pages ago, everyone came to the conclusion that the 2011 450r is a myth and/or Honda is not going to release a new 450r. ...ergo, 1990 all over again.

[island400ex]

What does TPR have to say on the matter?? It would seem his predictions have driven this thread, what is the final verdict TPR??

[DnB_racing]

Originally posted by island400ex
What does TPR have to say on the matter?? It would seem his predictions have driven this thread, what is the final verdict TPR?? I personally not expecting a 450 for quit some time!

this was TPR's last post on this subject.... maybe he has some new info.... i hope he does


quote by TPR on 7/31/10
(You might be right, sorry to burst people's bubbles but again, what I can't predict is when Honda will flick the switch and make this a go...I believe we will get it sooner rather than later, but Honda is Honda, they really do not feel the pressure to just put it out there because we want it. As it's been stated here previously, they don't make their big money on 450's...or sport machines for that matter. Like the other MFG's they make their money on utilities because they serve multiple purposes, hunting, farming, patrol units....get the picture? Supply and demand dictates what is released.

That is why when people ask me if they should wait, I tell them it's their decision.

TPR)

[Miguel1994]

I got some more information from another source and what they told me was.
BY THE TIME we don't have any information about releasing new sport ATV's.

[island400ex]

I asked the sales manager at my local Honda dealer and he told me their rep said nothing this year but "new and exiting sport atvs for 2012 and 2013" he also said the general public usually knows more than they do! Lol

[Miguel1994]

that is great, maybe we are gone have an all new sport ATV's line.

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by island400ex
I asked the sales manager at my local Honda dealer and he told me their rep said nothing this year but "new and exiting sport atvs for 2012 and 2013" he also said the general public usually knows more than they do! Lol

You are so right. Honda dealers and Reps don't know $hit! Again, when current stock levels deplete, there will be a new 450R release. :macho

[jkiserracing]

I have come to the conclusion that this thread has officially lost its way. It sure made for some interesting reading though. I beleive its more of a Honda ATV discussion more than the 2011 450R disscussion (now).

It would have been cool to see this "so called" 2011 R for sure. Its just that I think this whole thread was started on mere speculation and guessing. The person who began this jumped right out of the gate talking about how impressive it would be, and this, and that. Blah blah blah. Then about halfway through this, he started changing his tune.
Welll....ummm...of course there are still lots of old units that must be sold....and well....ummm....theres really no way this can be released until a majority of those are sold sooooo...Honda has to wait a little longer and ummmm............. So really, if this "new and improved" 450R does happen to show up on a Honda dealership floor near you (this year all new for 2011)....I'll be the first to admit...I was wrong.

I doubt it ever existed. One day possibly. But not today. And that my friends...is my 2 cents.

[ThePhantomRider]

Well said and if I was any of you, I would be skeptical as well. There is only one part of your comment that is incorrect and that was me changing my tune.

I have always made the statement that Honda has completed the 450r and I have also stated it would only be released when they had depleted the reserves.

At the beginning of the year it looked promising that a new 450 would debut but they might not have reached their target sales to trigger the launch.

TPR

[coryatver]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Well said and if I was any of you, I would be skeptical as well. There is only one part of your comment that is incorrect and that was me changing my tune.

I have always made the statement that Honda has completed the 450r and I have also stated it would only be released when they had depleted the reserves.

At the beginning of the year it looked promising that a new 450 would debut but they might not have reached their target sales to trigger the launch.

TPR

it apparently took them 10 years to "deplete there reserves" of 250rs and finally come out with another sport quad the 400ex hope it doesn't take that long again lol 2 model years and counting. Not looking good from what I hear even the manufactures left are pulling out of racing.

[MtnEX]

Originally posted by ThePhantomRider
Well said and if I was any of you, I would be skeptical as well. There is only one part of your comment that is incorrect and that was me changing my tune.

I have always made the statement that Honda has completed the 450r and I have also stated it would only be released when they had depleted the reserves.

At the beginning of the year it looked promising that a new 450 would debut but they might not have reached their target sales to trigger the launch.

TPR

Right, and although I have made NO predictions.... and people have said my comments are "off" and this and that...

Here is the REALITY of the situation no one can deny...


Honda had a popular unit there with the 450R that was selling.... and then it just hit a wall.... BLAM!!!!!.... Just not selling anymore... Release none for 2 years and they are still sitting around unsold. Can't give them away. I could have had a brand hammer new one for $3,999.


So as a manufacturer, Honda finds themselves in a very complicated dilemma with the 450R.


Obivously they can't produce more of a unit that don't sell. So they only have 2 choices.

They have to choose between discontinuing the model, or producing very limited quantity...... or they invest in the risk of attempting to improve the model in a way that will revive sales.... enticing enough to recover the customers who have moved on to other brands, and improved enough to draw their current loyals back to the dealership for the latest and greatest version.


I'll admit I am surprised if the R&D is successful and complete...

But I really really think they would have to be crazy to apply their resources like this and make the risky investment of producing these new 450R units...

What they did with the 700XX shows me they are not 'that' confident in there new releases.... and that they would rather side-step and produce things that are not all that "directly competitive" as a model.

They would rather keep making baby steps on their utility quads, and produce non-competitive sport quad models that are more of an alternative or by themselves in the market.... rather than build units that go head to head with competitive models.

[DEVINF450R]

While correct, you have the narrowed version of the truth. you can buy any new quad for about half price right now b/c they have so many left over. go on ebay and look at all the kfx450r for $3999, or teh yfzr's that are sellling for around 4500. this is why it is almost impossible for ppl to sell quads

[Ruf Racing]

Originally posted by MtnEX
So as a manufacturer, Honda finds themselves in a very complicated dilemma with the 450R.


You are forgetting the big picture. SLUMPING ECONOMY! No worky, No money. It's a vicious cycle. It's not as complicated as you make it out to be. :ermm: