Santo DeRisi - Ask me any questions that you would like!

[Santo DeRisi]

Hello everyone!

You can ask me any type questions that you would like.
I will be glad to help anyone out!

[Admin]

How long have you been involved in Racing XC and how long have you been designing shocks?

[Pappy]

sweet!!!! and thanks ahead of time:D


i recently bought a set of used front pep shocks. they were set up for a 180 pound rider on +2 a arms. i am 220 and run +1 arms. i kinda figured id have to get them redone for my weight and all....but i couldnt resist installing them:ermm: they sure do ride smooth but seem a bit soft( i havent hit anything ruff yet) i have the preload all the way at the bottom to get my ride hieght correct ....so am i correct that they will be needing some work before i go much further?

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by EXriders Admin
How long have you been involved in Racing XC and how long have you been designing shocks?


I have been racing XC since 1993 i hope to do it MANY MORE years!

I have been working with shocks since around 1998 or a little earlier!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Pappy
sweet!!!! and thanks ahead of time:D


i recently bought a set of used front pep shocks. they were set up for a 180 pound rider on +2 a arms. i am 220 and run +1 arms. i kinda figured id have to get them redone for my weight and all....but i couldnt resist installing them:ermm: they sure do ride smooth but seem a bit soft( i havent hit anything ruff yet) i have the preload all the way at the bottom to get my ride hieght correct ....so am i correct that they will be needing some work before i go much further?

Yeah there will definately be some changes that will need to be made.

[toby400ex]

Would it prolly be a bad idea to buy a rebuild kit and rebuild my shocks myself?:confused2

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by toby400ex
Would it prolly be a bad idea to buy a rebuild kit and rebuild my shocks myself?:confused2

I wouldn't recommend it unless you are knowledgable about suspension.

[kabd69667]

What makes your brand of suspension better than the rest? convince me....:)

[AtvMxRider]

Welcome Santo.:)

[bradley300]

remeber your wheels kenny! an offset that wide should put alot more leverage on the frontend. your still wider than a +2 bike with 4+1 wheels i think.

ditch those 2+3 offsets for a set of 3+2's or 4+1's and it should stiffen up a little.

am i right santo?

Originally posted by bradley300
remeber your wheels kenny! an offset that wide should put alot more leverage on the frontend. your still wider than a +2 bike with 4+1 wheels i think.

ditch those 2+3 offsets for a set of 3+2's or 4+1's and it should stiffen up a little.

am i right santo?


offsets have no effect on valving.

[OCCRA288]

When will the JDR series shocks be ready? Would you recommend them over Axis and PEP. What will the wait on those shocks be when they are finally available. I'm torn between waiting for these or saving for Axis.

QuadMX18,
In theory a wider offset wheel will put more leverage on the shock. IT prolly won't be a huge difference but it will be noticable.

[RIjon]

Originally posted by QuadMX18
offsets have no effect on valving.


I just don't agree with this

If you make the 'Lever' Longer while retaining the Same Fulcrum .....You are creating more Leverage

How can it NOT affect the Dynamics of the shocks?

:confused:

[batgeek]

SANTO!!! :D

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
I have been racing XC since 1993 i hope to do it MANY MORE years!

I have been working with shocks since around 1998 or a little earlier! I remember when you started Santo....(god I'm getting old :( ) In 95 down at Ocala your dad asked to me to ride a 250R in practice that he had built and tell him what I thought. He gave me a set of foot peg extenders to try out too.

[honda400exrider]

I will have to be the dumb one and ask.. who is this guy?:devil:

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by RIjon
I just don't agree with this

If you make the 'Lever' Longer while retaining the Same Fulcrum .....You are creating more Leverage

How can it NOT affect the Dynamics of the shocks?

:confused:

OK, let's go ahead and start the debate.:D

I will have to disagree with this based on what has been taught to me.
By increasing the offset, or increasing the relationship between the wheel center and the a-arm mount, you are not increasing the 'lever'. The lever in this case is the pivot point relationship between the a-arm mount and the ball joint. The spindel attachment to the ball joint is where the leverage is taking place. So, the relationship between the center of the wheel and the ball joint increasing only puts more stress on the ball joints,not more leverage on the shock.

At least, this is the way I understand it. Does someone else have another view?

[Chef]

Originally posted by Yellow416ex
OK, let's go ahead and start the debate.:D

I will have to disagree with this based on what has been taught to me.
By increasing the offset, or increasing the relationship between the wheel center and the a-arm mount, you are not increasing the 'lever'. The lever in this case is the pivot point relationship between the a-arm mount and the ball joint. The spindel attachment to the ball joint is where the leverage is taking place. So, the relationship between the center of the wheel and the ball joint increasing only puts more stress on the ball joints,not more leverage on the shock.

At least, this is the way I understand it. Does someone else have another view?

As far as I know, with all the time I have thought about it, which isnt much, a wider offset wheel WILL put more leverage on the shock. Either way, by wider arms or wider wheels, the tires are still on the ground at the same distance from the shocks. This should, in some cases on the ground, put more leverage into the hub, which goes to the spindle, which goes through the balljoints, to the arms, which obviously is hooked to the shock. Either way, I wont run flipped rims, even in the sand, because I am afraid that if I go balls to the wall and hit a jump in 5th gear WFO, that the spindles will break off and I will be hurtin.

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by Yellow416ex
OK, let's go ahead and start the debate.

I will have to disagree with this based on what has been taught to me.
By increasing the offset, or increasing the relationship between the wheel center and the a-arm mount, you are not increasing the 'lever'. The lever in this case is the pivot point relationship between the a-arm mount and the ball joint. The spindel attachment to the ball joint is where the leverage is taking place. So, the relationship between the center of the wheel and the ball joint increasing only puts more stress on the ball joints,not more leverage on the shock.

At least, this is the way I understand it. Does someone else have another view?

Originally posted by Chef
As far as I know, with all the time I have thought about it, which isnt much, a wider offset wheel WILL put more leverage on the shock. Either way, by wider arms or wider wheels, the tires are still on the ground at the same distance from the shocks. This should, in some cases on the ground, put more leverage into the hub, which goes to the spindle, which goes through the balljoints, to the arms, which obviously is hooked to the shock. Either way, I wont run flipped rims, even in the sand, because I am afraid that if I go balls to the wall and hit a jump in 5th gear WFO, that the spindles will break off and I will be hurtin.




OK Mr. DeRisi, us mere mortals need enlightenment from a higher power. Please bestow some of your wisdom upon us who are not worthy.:confused: :D

[Dave400ex]

Well I just posted a question in the YFZ450 thread before I saw this. It's great your helping out.

[bradley300]

i dont think they make that much of a difference, but going from a 2+3 to a 4+1 is a drastic change where you could tell a noticeable difference.

also, i believe anything that adds length from the shockmount on the a-arm to the outside of the wheel would add leverage. yes/no?

[Chef]

Originally posted by Yellow416ex

OK Mr. DeRisi, us mere mortals need enlightenment from a higher power. Please bestow some of your wisdom upon us who are not worthy.:confused: :D

LMAO. This is true. :cool:

[boogiechile]

Wheel offset will NOT effect the leverage on the shock. That is determined by the motion (leverage) ratio of the lower a arm. Its just plain physics and geometry. As the offset gets wider more stress is applied to the spindle and ball joints but no more force is applied to the shock. When the offset is to the outside, pushing up on the tire makes it try to bend up the spindle shaft and push in on the upper ball joint and a arm more while the force on the shock is the same. If you don't believe this just take a quad and measure the ride height at the frt and then without changing any thing else switch to a wider offset rim with the same size tires and you will see that the ride height does not change. If there was more leverage on the shock the height would change, but it will not do so.

What an offset rim will do is add bump steer. It is all about something called "steering axis inclination." I have posted before explaining what SAI is but I don't want to go there now.

[jamiesel]

Mr Santos,

This is a post I made in another thread. I see that you want questions here now. Here is a copy of it.


Mr. Santos,

Thank you for entering the site to answer questions. I am interested in your services as well. My biggest dissapontment with the Yfz that I bought so far is the stiff suspention. I spend most of my time in the sand dunes and prefer my z400 stockers believe it or not. I have loosened the z's stocker rear as far as it will go and feels great out there.

I have bought some quad rate elkas loosened them up all the way and love them on my dale. They are long travels. I have a set of long travel t-pins on my 250r PEP and love that set up. But the yfz is so rough in the sand at low speeds that it tires you out prematurly. I will loosen them all the way before I go again and see how they work but I am concerned that it will not have enough shock left for jumps.

Will you be introducing a cushy set up for sand fanatics? I think a shock manufacture should go after this specific market as there are so many of us that are so hooked at it that cost is not as much of a factor as performance.

[Live2Ride300]

Lol, I think you guys scared the man away. Anyways, Santo can you tell me exactly what you do when you take a pair of works triple rate shocks w/ rezzies (for example lets say the A-T Steelers model) and instal the pro millenium kit? Id like to know more about it. Thanx

[quadman21]

I will have to be the dumb one and ask.. who is this guy?

Santo Derisi is National GNCC #6. He is currently sitting around 3rd in pro points (someone correct me if I am wrong). He also has had two top 3 overall finishes this year. ON top of this, he has his own company DERISI RACING and his own line of shocks called PRO Millinium which are as good as any top of the line axis you'll ever find that he designed himself. If you have a suspension question, He'll know the answer.

[86atc250r]

boogiechili and Yellow416ex are correct. Wheel offset does *not* affect the leverage against the shock with the double control arm setup used on all modern sport/race quads.

[KrazyKid300ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
sweet!!!! and thanks ahead of time:D


i recently bought a set of used front pep shocks. they were set up for a 180 pound rider on +2 a arms. i am 220 and run +1 arms. i kinda figured id have to get them redone for my weight and all....but i couldnt resist installing them:ermm: they sure do ride smooth but seem a bit soft( i havent hit anything ruff yet) i have the preload all the way at the bottom to get my ride hieght correct ....so am i correct that they will be needing some work before i go much further?

yea i think somethings wrong pappy. i jumped the 425 on the intermediate course and noticed that i bottomed and a smooth landing. the ride was nice and smooth and that engine rips like mine does. what was the wobble in the right rear again?

[lil400exman]

santo whats ur phone number?:confused:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by KrazyKid300ex
yea i think somethings wrong pappy. i jumped the 425 on the intermediate course and noticed that i bottomed and a smooth landing. the ride was nice and smooth and that engine rips like mine does. what was the wobble in the right rear again?

end results of riding on soft shocks.....i bent a main spring:p

the wobble..must have been mud caked on the tire or in the rim cuz its all tight.

i sent my pep's to santo to see what he is all about:macho im sure he can get them doin what they are supposed to:devil:

santos phone number and website are linked thru his profile:) damn nice fella to take with:cool:

[lil400exman]

pappy ur a fart smeller:p

hey...i was wondering if you could revalve my rear shock so that its really good like a new works shock & how much it would be? also, what all do you do to it during a revalve & how long will it take as I dont want to go to long w/o a 4 wheeler :(

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by lil400exman
santo whats ur phone number?:confused:


704-538-3512

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Live2Ride300
Lol, I think you guys scared the man away. Anyways, Santo can you tell me exactly what you do when you take a pair of works triple rate shocks w/ rezzies (for example lets say the A-T Steelers model) and instal the pro millenium kit? Id like to know more about it. Thanx

I have designed all new internal pistons and valving for the works. My valving is much more tuneable than works valving. My valving flows more oil than the works which takes away the harsh feeling that you sometimes get with the works. Also my valving is going to be more for YOUR weight unlike works where they have a weight range on their shocks. For and example they might have one shock that is setup for a 150lb - 190lb rider where my setups are going to be for say 150lb - 155lb rider. I have a lot more variations to work with.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Pappy
end results of riding on soft shocks.....i bent a main spring:p

the wobble..must have been mud caked on the tire or in the rim cuz its all tight.

i sent my pep's to santo to see what he is all about:macho im sure he can get them doin what they are supposed to:devil:

santos phone number and website are linked thru his profile:) damn nice fella to talk with:cool:

Thanks Pappy!

[TC17]

the rims on the 300 aren't bent. i checked them out today. the fronts were bent a little before the ride. the rear aren't bent. they had an inch or two of rocks and mud stuck between the sidewalls and the rims. it won't start but i got it up on a jack and spun the rear wheels and they aren't bent. a few more fix ups now.

Santo, do you reccomend brake and clutch levers higher, lower, or even with the bars? the stock 400's levers are lower and i moved them up and i like them much better about even. dirtwheels said put them lower but i like them higher. what do you think?

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by TC17
the rims on the 300 aren't bent. i checked them out today. the fronts were bent a little before the ride. the rear aren't bent. they had an inch or two of rocks and mud stuck between the sidewalls and the rims. it won't start but i got it up on a jack and spun the rear wheels and they aren't bent. a few more fix ups now.

Santo, do you reccomend brake and clutch levers higher, lower, or even with the bars? the stock 400's levers are lower and i moved them up and i like them much better about even. dirtwheels said put them lower but i like them higher. what do you think?


I like mine lower. If you ride in the attack mode with your elbows up then i would say that you would like them lower. If you have the levers up then you are going to have your wrists bent which wouldn't be good.

[hollywood43]

Santo -- quick question for you. The stock rear shock on my '88 Tecate-4 was rebuild/revalved maybe 6 months ago and has only around 10 hours max on it. I don't get to ride much right now. I had it at the track about 3 weeks ago and was really launching it. Yesterday I noticed a little bit of oil on the floor. It looks like it's leaking out of the valve stem on the rezzy. I need to pick up a valve stem tool to make sure that it's tight like it should be. Is the shock trashed now? My thought is if the oil is leaking then the gas probably is already gone. Can you quote me a price for rebuild and/or Millenium kit? Thanks.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by hollywood43
Santo -- quick question for you. The stock rear shock on my '88 Tecate-4 was rebuild/revalved maybe 6 months ago and has only around 10 hours max on it. I don't get to ride much right now. I had it at the track about 3 weeks ago and was really launching it. Yesterday I noticed a little bit of oil on the floor. It looks like it's leaking out of the valve stem on the rezzy. I need to pick up a valve stem tool to make sure that it's tight like it should be. Is the shock trashed now? My thought is if the oil is leaking then the gas probably is already gone. Can you quote me a price for rebuild and/or Millenium kit? Thanks.

Well there shouldn't be oil in coming out of there. The only thing that sould come out of the valve stem is Nitrogen. The oil is definately coming out of the shock? Who done the rebuild on it?

[03GNCC270]

i BELIEVE THAT PUTTING AN OFF SET WHEEL WOULD PUT MORE LEVERAGE ON THE SHOCK. BY LENGHENING THE WHOLE ASSEMBLY YOU MOVING THE PUSH POINT FURTHER FROM YOUR PIVOT POINT. WHICH WOULD MAKE EVERY THING MOVE A LOT EASIER. IT IS LIKE BREAKING A NUT LOOSE. USING A 12" RATCHET WILL NOT BUDGE IT. PUT A 24" BREAKER BAR ON IT AND IT MOVES.
I BELIEVE THE LONGER THE WHOLE ASSEMBLY (a-arms ball joints spindles and wheel) THE MORE PREEURE YOU WILL NEED FROM A SHOCK TO KEEP IT FROM BOTTOMING OUT

your caps lock is on:huh

[86atc250r]

BY LENGHENING THE WHOLE ASSEMBLY YOU MOVING THE PUSH POINT FURTHER FROM YOUR PIVOT POINT.

Go back and re-read the explanation why you are ***NOT*** moving "the whole assembly push point further from your pivot point".

It's not nearly that simple. In a single control arm setup, yes, it would be that simple - however, we are not dealing with a single control arm setup.

With a double control arm setup like what we are dealing with on these quads, the ball joints terminate the end of the lever.

[cjpoole1]

Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
my setups are going to be for say 150lb - 155lb rider. I have a lot more variations to work with.
With that tight a tolerance would you valve the shocks from your weight with all your gear on including chest protector and camel back?

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by cjpoole1
With that tight a tolerance would you valve the shocks from your weight with all your gear on including chest protector and camel back?

I usually figure the main riding gear and then the rest will fit in with the tolerance.

[Martin Blair]

Welcome Santo.

I have a few questions, about shcoks i race harescrambles in MO nd am gettign new shocks this inter, i can get tcs for 685 shipped, would you go with the tcs, or would wroks for 476 and then send them tio you be better / cheaper? Also do you do zero preload, ie scs, ssd, zps, rebuilds on rear shcoks for the 400ex?

Thanks alot.

[RIjon]

Looks like this guy doesn't want to answer the Offset Question

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by RIjon
Looks like this guy doesn't want to answer the Offset Question

I am going to answer i am just waiting to see what everyone has to say about it first :)

[JOEX]

Originally posted by cjpoole1
With that tight a tolerance would you valve the shocks from your weight with all your gear on including chest protector and camel back?
I belive it should be the purchasers responsibility to include riding gear in the weight of the rider which equals "rider weight".

The shock builder should also remind the purchaser that the gross weight of the rider and gear be totalled to get an accuate set-up.

That way there will be a lesser chance of a mis-set-up.

Joe

[RIjon]

My bad.... I will go back under my rock:p

[Big - D Racing]

Santo,
I have been looking into getting my stock 400ex rear shock rebuilt by you using your millenium valving and zero preload design. I believe you do it for like $450. How will that shock compare performance wise to say like a rear elka ssd shock? I am not a hard core mx guy, although I do hit the track often. Should I fork out the extra money for an aftermarket shock or save some money and do your rebuild?
P.s Do you have any experience or knowledge of Motowoz? If so what do you think?

[bansheeguy77]

welcome to the site santo. i was watching you race at rausch creek i was like who is he hes flying haha. btw no questions just a welcome :)

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by RIjon
My bad.... I will go back under my rock:p

Nah its cool! :)

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by bansheeguy77
welcome to the site santo. i was watching you race at rausch creek i was like who is he hes flying haha. btw no questions just a welcome :)


Thank you very much!!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Big - D Racing
Santo,
I have been looking into getting my stock 400ex rear shock rebuilt by you using your millenium valving and zero preload design. I believe you do it for like $450. How will that shock compare performance wise to say like a rear elka ssd shock? I am not a hard core mx guy, although I do hit the track often. Should I fork out the extra money for an aftermarket shock or save some money and do your rebuild?
P.s Do you have any experience or knowledge of Motowoz? If so what do you think?

I think that they work just as good. All the rear components are made very well and with a little help they work great!

I have no experience with the Motowoz shocks except what i have read about them. Sorry.

[zlam27]

i wanna get in this thread too.....

about the offset- im gonna hop on the bandwagon that says a wider offset wont effect the tension on the shock. i want to say it might VERY slightly, but all the added stress of the offest just ends up in the spindle and connected components. and thats my final answer.......

BTW: welcome to the site, its always nice to have people who actually know what they are talking about:D just kiddin guys, but we can always use a professional opinion right...

zach

[chrisp333]

welcome santo.

im power hungry. got a 416 (not ready to go higher) 11 to 1, rev kit , full pro circut t4, port and polish, uni filter, 165 main 60 pilot, gaskets all around, still with a stock carb. feed me

THANKS!!!

[Dave400ex]

Well a Cam and FCR 39 carb will add a lot of power.

[Pappy]

i reckon its time to see if he has a sense of humor:p

ok santo......GINGER OR MARY ANNE:confused: :devil:

[Chef]

Ginger looked really hot in some of those episodes...but so did Mary Anne...Its a tough choice...:o

[Bender]

Originally posted by Chef
Ginger looked really hot in some of those episodes...but so did Mary Anne...Its a tough choice...:o

Yeah Ginger and Mary ANN were hot, but MRS. Howel had all they loot, sure she is a little old. But if you treated her right she'd probably spring for that new 450R!

Hello Santo!

We need your help santo :blah:

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69982

[Tommy 17]

Originally posted by Pappy
i reckon its time to see if he has a sense of humor:p

ok santo......GINGER OR MARY ANNE:confused: :devil:


lmfao... only u pappy... only u...:p

[Bad Habit]

Originally posted by Pappy
GINGER OR MARY ANNE:confused: :devil:

Oh, come on. That's an easy one.......................................BOTH:dev il: :D :devil:

[boogiechile]

Ginger for sure!

[Santo DeRisi]

I know this sounds stupid but I don't watch TV. .... :ermm:

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
I know this sounds stupid but I don't watch TV. .... :ermm:

Now we finally got the answer to the question: What makes pros so fast!:D BTW, Welcome to EXRiders Santo! :cool:

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by RIDER11X
Now we finally got the answer to the question: What makes pros so fast!:D BTW, Welcome to EXRiders Santo! :cool:



Thank you I am glad to be here! :D

[Ryan]

Welcome Santo.

Question: Why do Blaster shocks work like pogo sticks :ermm: :p .

Originally posted by boogiechile
Wheel offset will NOT effect the leverage on the shock. That is determined by the motion (leverage) ratio of the lower a arm. Its just plain physics and geometry. As the offset gets wider more stress is applied to the spindle and ball joints but no more force is applied to the shock. When the offset is to the outside, pushing up on the tire makes it try to bend up the spindle shaft and push in on the upper ball joint and a arm more while the force on the shock is the same. If you don't believe this just take a quad and measure the ride height at the frt and then without changing any thing else switch to a wider offset rim with the same size tires and you will see that the ride height does not change. If there was more leverage on the shock the height would change, but it will not do so.

What an offset rim will do is add bump steer. It is all about something called "steering axis inclination." I have posted before explaining what SAI is but I don't want to go there now.

Hmm now this changes everything :D

I had just figured it was easier to believe some members posts (eg. boogiechile) and discount others (my friends quadtrix and mx), but now that they are in agreance on this subject I am totally confused :D :huh

JK

Thanx for the info BTW

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Ryan
Welcome Santo.

Question: Why do Blaster shocks work like pogo sticks :ermm: :p .

The Blaster is so small (Width, wheel base, etc...) for one reason and they don't have much travel in their suspension. When you say blaster shocks do you mean the stock ones?

[Ryan]

Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
The Blaster is so small (Width, wheel base, etc...) for one reason and they don't have much travel in their suspension. When you say blaster shocks do you mean the stock ones?

Yeah. I was just curious on why mine suck so bad ;) .


Now that I think of it, I do have a (real) question to ask....

On the YFZ, I heard even at the softest setting of the shocks, they will still perform bad for XC. I've also heard something about the a-arm design that effects something to do with the way the shocks perform.

Can you elaborate on this one?

[hawiianpwr]

On the offset rim question I'm going to have to go with it not affecting the shock geometry because you really havent moved any of the axis points. Your axis point is still at the stock location. The +2 move out you axis point the(the ball joints) +2 giving you longer distance between points. That is my final anwser:)

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by hawiianpwr
On the offset rim question I'm going to have to go with it not affecting the shock geometry because you really havent moved any of the axis points. Your axis point is still at the stock location. The +2 move out you axis point the(the ball joints) +2 giving you longer distance between points. That is my final anwser:) I believe that you are correct! :D

[carbonfiber440]

Santo,
Whats the difference between, the linkage type set for the rear suspension versus the no-link design, what are the positives and negatives of each. I am looking to purchase a swingarm and rear shock soon but am confused on what to choose. i MX race, on a 400ex.
Thanks,
Carbon

[BadA$$440]

I was thinking about buying an Axis rear shock. What kind of difference will i notice between single rate and dual rate? Cause i looked at the prices and for single rate dual adjust it was $750 i think and for a dual rate dual adjust was $925.....almost $200 for an extra spring....what do you reccomend?

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by carbonfiber440
Santo,
Whats the difference between, the linkage type set for the rear suspension versus the no-link design, what are the positives and negatives of each. I am looking to purchase a swingarm and rear shock soon but am confused on what to choose. i MX race, on a 400ex.
Thanks,
Carbon

There was a thread about this in the FAQ, it can give you some good background information.

Originally posted by Pappy
SANTO IS THE MAN:D

I sent him my pep's last wednesday to get some tweaking done....i got them back today.


this is me now-------->:D


awesome service....awesome price....and cool stickers to boot:macho :D


thanks again:D


did i tell ya this is me----->:D

Good deal there Kenny. Glad to hear it went well.

Maybe my pm was a little much for Santo LMAO (you guys know my long posts etc). I was basicaly referencing the info on the last suspension thread and some of the others and how it would be great to get Santo involved etc.

God knows the site could use some help on suspension but I guess the time required is just too much or maybe there are too many "secrets" that us average riders/racers arent supposed to know :(

Then again maybe I am just gullable and this thread is nothing more than another advertisement and I got sucked into thinking we had a new extremely valuable member. Well I hope this isnt the case since all the "fancy" advertising that we have been seeing hidden in various threads (you guys know the ones :rolleyes: ) lately isnt impressive at all and borderlines tacky.

From what I have heard about Santo (all good and from some very reliable sources btw) I am thinking this isnt the case, and lets hope I am right.

So anyhow any knowledgable professionals want to take on the basics of suspension set up???????????????????????????????

[lil400exman]

Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
Hello everyone!

You can ask me any type questions that you would like.
I will be glad to help anyone out!
well boxers or breifs when ya race?:p any question ya said i am debating seriously on this one.........:confused2

[wyndzer]

Originally posted by "2-R's Rider"
all I can say is wow!:eek2:

Me too.:confused:

Originally posted by wyndzer
Me too.:confused:

c'mon guys nothing to be getting confused about there cause its all very black and white.

Are we gonna see any takers for the suspension set up thread????????????????????????????????????????????

[holeshot19]

hey man its eddy s. i think i ate too much last nite with u guys. my question is what kind of quailfations would u requre to be one of your traveling mechanics:D

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Pappy
SANTO IS THE MAN:D

I sent him my pep's last wednesday to get some tweaking done....i got them back today.


this is me now-------->:D


awesome service....awesome price....and cool stickers to boot:macho :D


thanks again:D


did i tell ya this is me----->:D

Pappy,
I am glad to know that everything is working great! If you need anything just let me know!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by 440EX4me

Maybe my pm was a little much for Santo LMAO (you guys know my long posts etc). I was basicaly referencing the info on the last suspension thread and some of the others and how it would be great to get Santo involved etc.

God knows the site could use some help on suspension but I guess the time required is just too much or maybe there are too many "secrets" that us average riders/racers arent supposed to know :(

Then again maybe I am just gullable and this thread is nothing more than another advertisement and I got sucked into thinking we had a new extremely valuable member. Well I hope this isnt the case since all the "fancy" advertising that we have been seeing hidden in various threads (you guys know the ones :rolleyes: ) lately isnt impressive at all and borderlines tacky.

From what I have heard about Santo (all good and from some very reliable sources btw) I am thinking this isnt the case, and lets hope I am right.

So anyhow any knowledgable professionals want to take on the basics of suspension set up???????????????????????????????

On my suspension there is no secrets just a lot of time and hard work! There is a lot of time required to run your own business and it is hard for me to answer questions really quick sometimes it is going to take me longer than others. I am not trying to be mean but i want everyone to understand why.....

Sorry again i am not trying to be mean or anything....

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by lil400exman
well boxers or breifs when ya race?:p any question ya said i am debating seriously on this one.........:confused2

Breifs :)

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by holeshot19
hey man its eddy s. i think i ate too much last nite with u guys. my question is what kind of quailfations would u requre to be one of your traveling mechanics:D


R U Serious??? :huh

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by holeshot19
hey man its eddy s. i think i ate too much last nite with u guys. my question is what kind of quailfations would u requre to be one of your traveling mechanics:D

That food was pretty good wasn't it??

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Ryan
Yeah. I was just curious on why mine suck so bad ;) .


Now that I think of it, I do have a (real) question to ask....

On the YFZ, I heard even at the softest setting of the shocks, they will still perform bad for XC. I've also heard something about the a-arm design that effects something to do with the way the shocks perform.

Can you elaborate on this one?

The shocks are stiff on the YFZ. I think that the caster is wrong on the A-Arms which makes the frontend feel twitchy. The stock shocks can be fixed to work on XC though. I am going to be doing some testing here soon with some aftermarket a-arms so we will see what happens with that.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Bad*****440
I was thinking about buying an Axis rear shock. What kind of difference will i notice between single rate and dual rate? Cause i looked at the prices and for single rate dual adjust it was $750 i think and for a dual rate dual adjust was $925.....almost $200 for an extra spring....what do you reccomend?

What kind of quad are you racing and are you racing XC or MX?

Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
On my suspension there is no secrets just a lot of time and hard work! There is a lot of time required to run your own business and it is hard for me to answer questions really quick sometimes it is going to take me longer than others. I am not trying to be mean but i want everyone to understand why.....

Sorry again i am not trying to be mean or anything....

Thanx for taking the time to answer my post and PM, and I hope you didnt misunderstand the "sarcasim" to be directed at you.

I understand the business aspect and refuse to think about it too much as I am sure this $#@#$ is costing me a fortune :)

BTW

Welcome to the site.

[BadA$$440]

Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
What kind of quad are you racing and are you racing XC or MX?

It will be an XC quad

p.s thanks for taking time out and coming on here to answer our questions:D ;)

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Bad*****440
It will be an XC quad

p.s thanks for taking time out and coming on here to answer our questions:D ;)

No Prob!
You will be able to make the dual rate shock more plush at the top of the travel. You will also have more adjustability with the dual rate.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by 440EX4me
Thanx for taking the time to answer my post and PM, and I hope you didnt misunderstand the "sarcasim" to be directed at you.

I understand the business aspect and refuse to think about it too much as I am sure this $#@#$ is costing me a fortune :)

BTW

Welcome to the site.

No problem at all! I hope that i was able to help you some!
Thanks for the welcome!

[lil400exman]

hey santo can you work on white power shocks and maybe do you millenium rebuild on em? i have a pair and need to know.........:)

I am going to be doing some testing here soon with some aftermarket a-arms so we will see what happens with that.

GOOD you get that done and let me know what I need to do with mine. you know the camber settings. This way I don't have to take the time to do it.:D

[luvmyex]

good to see ya on here Santo. Did you recive my(Rick B.) shocks yesterday?:D Looking foward to getting them back.I know they will be twice as good. I may need a little help setting up the rear once i do get em.

[AlaskaSpeed]

I really appreciate Santo coming on here and offering to answer questions, a daunting task at best. I wanted to pass on a bit of cool news about Mr. DeRisi; I called down to his shop at 2:35pm Alaska time....which is about 6:35pm his time. I talked to whom I believe is his wife and she took my name/number down and said I had just missed him, but if he came back after supper she was sure he would call me back.
Well....5pm my time...9pm his time...my phone rings and it was Santo ready and willing to answer any of my questions about his suspension revalving/respringing. This says a lot about him in my opinion and I appreciate it............JIM

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by lil400exman
hey santo can you work on white power shocks and maybe do you millenium rebuild on em? i have a pair and need to know.........:)

I can work on them. As far as having a Valve kit that will work with them i am not sure i would just have to take them apart and see.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by GNCCer
GOOD you get that done and let me know what I need to do with mine. you know the camber settings. This way I don't have to take the time to do it.:D


LAZY!! :rolleyes: :)

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by luvmyex
good to see ya on here Santo. Did you recive my(Rick B.) shocks yesterday?:D Looking foward to getting them back.I know they will be twice as good. I may need a little help setting up the rear once i do get em.

Yeah i got them and they are about done. I sent you a PM so check it out!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by AlaskaSpeed
I really appreciate Santo coming on here and offering to answer questions, a daunting task at best. I wanted to pass on a bit of cool news about Mr. DeRisi; I called down to his shop at 2:35pm Alaska time....which is about 6:35pm his time. I talked to whom I believe is his wife and she took my name/number down and said I had just missed him, but if he came back after supper she was sure he would call me back.
Well....5pm my time...9pm his time...my phone rings and it was Santo ready and willing to answer any of my questions about his suspension revalving/respringing. This says a lot about him in my opinion and I appreciate it............JIM

Hello Jim!
It was nice talking to you! I am glad to help anyone out anytime that i can. Thanks for the compliment and let me know if i can help you out.
Thank You again!

[Ralph]

hey santo, does works make a 19inch shock? im going to go with l/t a-arms and was thinking to get works 19 inch shocks and then have you do the millenium rebuild to them...

[muff]

I have a 400ex and i got the rear shock rebuilt by the quadshop so it now has zps. I got it setup exactly for my weight and when I hit bumps or big jumps it seems to go through the travel at a constant rate and not stiffen at the end like i think it should. I have messed with the rebound and compression but maybe I'm not getting the right combo w/ both.

Also when I hit the bumps and stuff at southwick it wants to kick me over the bars. One of my friends is runnin a rear axis shock and only got kicked over the bars once and that was cause it blew.

heres 2 pics to show you what i mean

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid69/p0bab7e42d05fa04e9566600b154848ab/fbacd5bc.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid69/pfde638c66de689a3ed2d51f1036c19a2/fbacd5ac.jpg


oh and ralph works does make LT shocks but they're as much as the TCS lts if i'm not mistaken

[Ralph]

Originally posted by muff



oh and ralph works does make LT shocks but they're as much as the TCS lts if i'm not mistaken

ill just go with the tcs's then

[mikealexander88]

what can you do, and how much will it be, to fix this? http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid77/pe4e577ac670ba2eb8855087369860d04/fb3bcb7e.jpg if the pic dosen't work it is my pep zps that has a L shaped shaft. it blew a seal on there also. i think the spring is ok but i'm not sure. i will send both shocks to whoever i have do it and will want them revalved and new oil and stuff. i have the 1/2 in shafts and i was wondering if there is a way to install the 5/8 shafts in both of them. thanks alot- mike

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Ralph
hey santo, does works make a 19inch shock? im going to go with l/t a-arms and was thinking to get works 19 inch shocks and then have you do the millenium rebuild to them...

Hello,
Yes Works does makes lt front shocks. They have different series though that have different price ranges.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by mikealexander88
what can you do, and how much will it be, to fix this? if the pic dosen't work it is my pep zps that has a L shaped shaft. it blew a seal on there also. i think the spring is ok but i'm not sure. i will send both shocks to whoever i have do it and will want them revalved and new oil and stuff. i have the 1/2 in shafts and i was wondering if there is a way to install the 5/8 shafts in both of them. thanks alot- mike

The spring might be ok......most of the time the spring ends up bending and it will not straighten up.
I will send you a pm on everything.

[RIDER11X]

Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
The spring might be ok......most of the time the spring ends up bending and it will not straighten up.
I will send you a pm on everything.
Can you change the shaft size on those or works shocks? And is it expensive?

[Santo DeRisi]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RIDER11X
[B]Can you change the shaft size on /c

Yeah you can change the shaft size but it is pretty expensive to do b/c of all the parts that have to be changed.

[zfire_28]

Santo,
I am planning to put lsr swing arm, axle, and +2 a-arms on my yfz450 this winter to race mx next season. I understand that your rebuild is not zps. I have Elka's on my 400ex and really love em. I would like to know if I had your rebuild done on all 3 of my yfz shocks, would it be as good of suspention for mx as fully adjustable Elka's, or should I wait for your zps rebuild?

Also, do you know what kind of price are we lookn at for the zps rebuild?

and..........Sorry about my post in the press release thread. After thinking about it and seeing your lowered price, I see that it is alot easier on the pocketbook than buying new shocks.:D

[howboutchaw]

Santo,

Need some help with a rear shock on a 400ex.

The shock is currently set up for my body weight and swing arm by Baldwin motorsports- it worked very well. But, now I changed the front to TCS zero preloads and I was wanting to know what it would take to get the back set up to sag like the front. I know I will have to get a different main spring, sag spring, and collars, but does the valve have to be changed too?

Could you shoot me a price?

If I can get by with just the zps spring set will you sell them separate?

Thanks in advance!!

Great to have people who know take the time out to help those who don't!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by zfire_28
Santo,
I am planning to put lsr swing arm, axle, and +2 a-arms on my yfz450 this winter to race mx next season. I understand that your rebuild is not zps. I have Elka's on my 400ex and really love em. I would like to know if I had your rebuild done on all 3 of my yfz shocks, would it be as good of suspention for mx as fully adjustable Elka's, or should I wait for your zps rebuild?

Also, do you know what kind of price are we lookn at for the zps rebuild?

and..........Sorry about my post in the press release thread. After thinking about it and seeing your lowered price, I see that it is alot easier on the pocketbook than buying new shocks.:D

What i have now is still going to be dual rate but will work just like ZPS. The price is going to be the same. I think that the setup is going to be great i am doing a YFZ for ATV Sport Mag here in a week or so......

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by howboutchaw
Santo,

Need some help with a rear shock on a 400ex.

The shock is currently set up for my body weight and swing arm by Baldwin motorsports- it worked very well. But, now I changed the front to TCS zero preloads and I was wanting to know what it would take to get the back set up to sag like the front. I know I will have to get a different main spring, sag spring, and collars, but does the valve have to be changed too?

Could you shoot me a price?

If I can get by with just the zps spring set will you sell them separate?

Thanks in advance!!

Great to have people who know take the time out to help those who don't!

To install the springs and collars you have to take the shock apart b/c the spring divider will not go over the bottom shock clevis.

[zfire_28]

well I hope to be able to send you my yfz shocks in a couple of months, please pm me an address and phone number.
thanks

[Braff1]

Do you service Fox shocks. I would like to get my fronts from my predator revalved for my wt and xc racing.

[Notu400ex]

My beliefs...

Wheel offset impacts the force transferred to the shock.

The wider you spread the tires, the higher the transferred force. The reason is that it extends the length of the lever. The balljoints on the a-arms are not the fulcrum point - it is the a-arm bearings of the lower a-arm. The upper a-arm is merely a stabilizer to hold the hub in as a vertical position as possible through the full arc action of the a-arms (hence the upper a-arms only need to be strong enough to stop the force of the hub trying to move out of a vertical position).

The shock will always provide the same resistance but the situation here is that more force is being applied against it given all other variables are being kept constant. Thus this lowers the upper range that the shock will work for (meaning if it was originally setup for say a 170lb rider, it will now only be effective for maybe a 150lb rider).

Eventually, Santo will respond if everyone doesn't die of boredom first from reading this topic and all the responses...;)

[86atc250r]

Do a search, there are a couple threads that explain why that is not the case on a dual control arm setup.

Summary:
With a dual control arm setup you are not extending the length of the lever with offset wheels. This can easily be understood by recognizing the fact that extending the offset does not extend the wheel travel.

However, the case is different in a single control arm setup. In this case offset wheels will extend travel, which means the lever is extended and there is more mechanical advantage against the shock.

You can not gain mechanical advantage against the shock without extending the distance the wheel must travel.

With a lever, there is always a give and a take - to make it "easier" to lift the load, you must be able to lift the end of the lever further -

Lets say you start out having to lift the lever 2" to move the load 1"....

If you make changes that make it to where you have to lift the end of the lever 3" to move the load 1", you've gained mechanical advantage and the load will be easier to lift. It's important to recognize that you've lifted over a greater distance.

If you make changes that do not cause you to have to move the end of the lever further, then you gain no mechanical advantage over the load & the load will not be easier to lift.

[Notu400ex]

So what you are saying is that if I bolted a 20' long pole to the hub then it would take the same effort to lift in order to compress the shock as it would if I simply grabbed the hub and lifted? (this is assuming the rest of the frame is in a locked position and can't move)

/Jon

[muff]

that would be correct


think about it for a sec.,,,grab that 20' pole right next to the hub and lift straight up, then go to the end of the pole and lift straight up, you are still lifting the same amount because the pole is not acting like a lever, its just simply a fixed object moving straight up and down

[muff]

this pic i just did up should explain everything...see how the double a-arm setup doesn't create a lever (don't believe me? take off your front shock and pull up on the tire, if it was a lever the hub would angle in derastically when you pull the tire all the way up)

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid81/pb994dc9e923d3f6eff238bf3c2aecdc2/faff5d39.jpg

[86atc250r]

Good job!

[Notu400ex]

Although a double a-arm tries to reduce the effects of the lever in order to keep the wheels as upright as possible throughout the full arcing motion of the a-arms, it is still a lever since the a-arms do not move up and down on the frame at their connection point. Given the fixed positioning of the a-arm bushings in the frame, it is still a lever.

Although you might not be able to see that the hubs change angles when you move the a-arms up and down, they do. This change causes bump steer. Double a-arms is just a fancy way of keeping your lifting point as straight as possible unlike a wheelbarrow where the handle angle changes.

Another way of viewing this is imagine if you stacked the two a-arms directly on top of each other. You can plainly see the concept of the lever. The only problem is that the hub would change angles enough that you could see it thus it wouldn't work if a wheel were mounted to it.

No matter how you slice it, the fulcrum point is where the a-arm bushings meet the frame. Having dual-arms splits the load to a point assuming the hub center is directly mounted in the center of the two a-arms (otherwise, one would carry more of the load than the other). In the end, you have a fancy wheelbarrow with a rotating handle.

[86atc250r]

it is still a lever since the a-arms do not move up and down on the frame at their connection point.

You're missing the point of his image - he is not saying the control arms are no longer a lever, he's saying the lever is terminated at the ball joints on a dual control arm setup.

How do you explain gaining mechanical advantage without having to move the end of the lever further? Remeber that in as in the rest of life, everything is a give and take. You can't take the benefits of mechanical advantage without being willing to "give" and move the end of the lever further distance.

Also, I already performed the experiment you mentioned and posted the results in the discussion.

I placed a pipe on the end of the spindle and measured the force required to move the load (shock) a given distance both with and without the pole.

The only thing the pole did was try to bend an expensive long travel upper control arm. It did not affect the force required to move the shock a given distance (pictures and measurements in the other offset wheel thread).

You say that the ball joint is not a "fulcrum". Consider this - what would happen if you removed the upper control arm and tried to use the spindle to raise the shock?

You would not move the shock until the ball joint's range of motion ran out, at which time you have taken it out of the equasion & the system then follows the rules of a single control arm setup.

The lower ball joint is a fulcrum that leverages against the upper control arm as well as terminates the lever against the shock.

Think about it a little deeper than what you can see at surface value - just because you are extending the distance of the force from the load, does not necessarily mean you gain mechanical advantage - it's a touch more complex than that.

---
Now to address some of what you said in your last post, this is not an attack, just setting the record straight for those that may not understand...

Although a double a-arm tries to reduce the effects of the lever in order to keep the wheels as upright as possible throughout the full arcing motion of the a-arms

The dual control arm setup is not intended to "reduce the effects of the lever" - you got it correct though that they are used to control the camber change thru the arc of the suspension travel.

Although you might not be able to see that the hubs change angles when you move the a-arms up and down, they do. This change causes bump steer.

Again, partially correct - the hubs do change angle very slightly thru the suspension travel - this change is called camber loss/gain. It is not for controlling bump steer, it's for attempting to adjust the camber as the chassis rolls to keep a better contact patch on the ground during heavy cornering. This is why the control arms are unequal length - if equal length, there would be no camber loss/gain.

"bump steer" is affected by the up and down motion of the suspension, but not for the reasons given. It's because of the difference in length from end to end of the tie rods and control arms. This means the tie rods follow a different arc than the control arms - which changes toe during suspension travel. This is not desireable. The only reason a quad operates this way is because of the simplicity of the design of the front steering system. Polaris has gotten around the bulk of this change in toe on the Predator by adding complexity to the steering system in the form of idler arms & drag links.

Another way of viewing this is imagine if you stacked the two a-arms directly on top of each other. .... The only problem is that the hub would change angles enough that you could see it thus it wouldn't work if a wheel were mounted to it.


What you are thinking of here is a single control arm setup - although not an ideal setup, it has been used in automotive & quad applications - many times on independent rear setups.


Having dual-arms splits the load to a point assuming the hub center is directly mounted in the center of the two a-arms (otherwise, one would carry more of the load than the other).

The lower control arm bears all the force from the shock - the upper control arm is merely a guide to control camber loss/gain.

The arms will both bear the force of a side impact to the wheel and lateral load during cornering, but those are incedental forces only really applicable to how strong the system must be designed to prevent damage during normal use.

In the end, you have a fancy wheelbarrow with a rotating handle.

Actually, you do not. The example of a wheelbarrow is the same as what is shown by the single control arm setup depicted, where the longer the lever the easier it becomes to lift the load - but, the compromise is that to lift the load a given distance, you must move the end of the lever further. It's vital to remember that there is always a compromise.

In the dual control arm example, you can plainly see that the distance the end of the lever is moving is unchanged - thus there is no additional mechanical advantage applied.

[Red Rooster]

Now, I'm not saying this is true or I'm right or anything, But isn't what muff was saying only true for equal length a-arms? Cause on most quads, the tops are shorter thann the bottoms, wich, makes the camber change as the wheel travle cycles?

Here are my deductions (if what I stated above is true):

#1. If the camber stays the same through the cycle of travel, then the wheel offset won't make any diference. (this is evident in vehicles with equal lenth [top and bottom] a-arms.

#2. If the wheel camber changes, the wide offset rim will affect the force needed to compress the shock. (this is evidant in vehicles with un-equal length [top and bottom] a-arms, and vehicles with single a-arm setups) The smaller the change in camber through the wheel travel, the closer your valveing will be when you switch from 2/3 ofset rims to 4/1 rims.

If your lower a-arm was shorter than the top a-arm (measuring from pivot to ball joint) your suspansion would actually get harder if you switched to a wider offset rim.

Am I right, Santo?

[Notu400ex]

okay, I will agree with your last explanation 86atc250r. I can still see it both ways so the deciding factor was that you actually tested your theory and saved me the time. You better be right though. :D

[86atc250r]

Red Rooster - you bring up a point not discussed here yet for simplicity's sake.

Yes, you are correct, that when the camber changes, then the additional offset does change the travel, thus altering leverage.

However, these changes are so small that it would take a ridiculously HUGE offset to make an appreciable difference in leverage at the shock.

You're not going to see or really even be able to measure the difference in wheel travel between 3/2 and 4/1 wheels as far as this is concerned --- but your thought is correct :) Glad to see people thinking this thru now.

[Red Rooster]

86atc250r,
So, the answer to the question would be yes, but not enough to ever notice, whatsoever. We are Geniuses! It all makes sense, but you just have to take a second to think it through.

[muff]

yea i think i got all of it down pretty good now to

it sure is nice bein able to show different arguements without gettin into a flame war and loosin all of the valuable info

[hawiianpwr]

Very good explanation everyone!

[jamiesel]

Derisi might stop anwering questions here if others answer them for him. I really value his input. It would be kool if we left the answers for him. IMO

[Notu400ex]

Read his posts. He was looking forward to people chatting about it first.

People begged him to respond. He said he would wait for a while before responding.

/Jon

[muff]

yea he wanted to see what believed information is out there and what everyone else thought

why make one man do all the work?

Santo, think I could buy a set of valves for my works shocks from you?
How much do they cost?

I plan on rebuilding my custom works within a month and would like to try your valving.

Is it possible to use the valving with works?

I am a b class rider 170 Ibs, pretty aggressive, I ride with my elbows up"attack mode" levers down.

so can we work something out?

Also, I need a set of dual rate springs for a 170 pound rider, front.

thanks in advance for your help and business.

[beyer05]

I bought a stock rear that was recently redone by Elka to be a Dual rate (ZPS) shock and it does not feel right. When you lift up the 'sag' on the rear end and let go, the 'sag' drops immediately to the main spring, and then gets stiff quickly. Not slowly like my PEP on my other bike. why is this? Is it ok? I have not rode it yet but was wondering if the shock was bad or what?

[muff]

thats what mines like, the zps spring is just a little weaker thats all

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Red Rooster
86atc250r,
So, the answer to the question would be yes, but not enough to ever notice, whatsoever. We are Geniuses! It all makes sense, but you just have to take a second to think it through.

There has been a LOT of discussion about this topic. Keep in mind, offset wheels WILL affect how your quad handles, how it rolls in the corners, and other effects on steering. As has been pointed out, it doesn't significantly affect the leverage on your shocks.

[440ex dragger]

This +4 Swingarm is on a 86 frame, but they arent useing the rear center mount, they have a piece welded to the bottom where the shock link fits. Can I use a durablue lowering strut with it or will I have to break the weld on it, I would like to be able to use the strut if possible, I am into drag racing and I would like to know if there are any good ways to lower a rearend without strapping the grabbar to the swingarm, do you have shocks that do that or am I just SOL.

[440ex dragger]

This +4 Swingarm is on a 86 frame, but they arent useing the rear center mount, they have a piece welded to the bottom where the shock link fits. Can I use a durablue lowering strut with it or will I have to break the weld on it, I would like to be able to use the strut if possible, I am into drag racing and I would like to know if there are any good ways to lower a rearend without strapping the grabbar to the swingarm, do you have shocks that do that or am I just SOL.

[wilkin250r]

I've always been curious, and I'll pose this question to Santo or anybody...

What is the TRUE difference in the setup between std. and +2 a-arms?

You see people selling used shocks, and claim "They will work for a 200lbs rider with standard a-arms, or a 180lb rider with +2 a-arms"

While this may be GENERALLY true, because of the increases leverage, what is the ACTUAL difference in a shock set up for 200lbs at standard a-arms, and 180lbs with +2 a-arms? I can't believe they are set up exactly the same...

I'm also thinking that the difference is even greater than 20 lbs, like 200lbs at std would be nearly the same as 150lbs at +2.

[Pappy]

here santo...now that i can post pics it will save me and you some time. let me know when you get the pics of the other one..i cant wait ta see it:D

[Pappy]

the only quad i ever regreted selling:(

[JOEX]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
I've always been curious, and I'll pose this question to Santo or anybody...

What is the TRUE difference in the setup between std. and +2 a-arms?

You see people selling used shocks, and claim "They will work for a 200lbs rider with standard a-arms, or a 180lb rider with +2 a-arms"

While this may be GENERALLY true, because of the increases leverage, what is the ACTUAL difference in a shock set up for 200lbs at standard a-arms, and 180lbs with +2 a-arms? I can't believe they are set up exactly the same...

I'm also thinking that the difference is even greater than 20 lbs, like 200lbs at std would be nearly the same as 150lbs at +2.
I like this question, curious myself. Need input.:)

Joe

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by JOEX
I like this question, curious myself. Need input.:)

Joe

Like to know this as well. Also does this hold true with the stock swinger vs the 1-1/4 extended.

[Pappy]

hey fella's...santo expressed his regrets in not being able to be online every night. the gncc's season is almost over and he said he would try and be on the site more as he gets a bit more spare time. he really wants to answer every question you have for him so please be patient or give him a call if you have a need to get the answer fast:)

[bmw500hp]

thanks pappy, thats completely understandable. :)

[wilkin250r]

Yeah, I don't need an answer to my question right away. I've been sitting on this question for a year, another few weeks isn't going to hurt...

[Pappy]

Originally posted by wilkin250r
Yeah, I don't need an answer to my question right away. I've been sitting on this question for a year, another few weeks isn't going to hurt...

give him a call. he is one of the nicest guys youll ever meet. he will take your call and will also return calls (which is pretty rare in this business)

im goin down and hangin out with him in 2 weeks to see what makes him tick....you want me to throw the handcuffs on him and ask him some stuff:devil: pm the questions....i can handle him:macho :D

j/p...give him a shout:cool:

[muff]

its so awesome to be able to talk to like that and they're cool about it, mark @ fdo is another great example, i was talking to him about doing motor work and he went off and told me stories and had really good recommondations etc. it made it so easy to want to send money/parts to him

[Sprttrx400ex]

I put on the R-4 slip-on and WB power filter. I put in a Dj160 main jet and the Djneedle with the clip on the 4th notch from the top. I turned the mixture screw out 3 turns. I left the stock pilot in.
I noticed the pipe was popping at high RPM. I put in a Dj165 main jet. It got a little better, but still pops a bit. I then moved the clip down a notch on the needle(richer). It ran like crap. It studdered and cut out alot. So I then put it on the 3rd notch from the top. The needle is now perfect, but I am not sure about everything else. So as it stand my jetting is:

Dj165 main jet
Dj needle 3rd notch.... perfect
stock pilot (do I need to change this?)
and ive been experimenting with the mixture screw from 2.5-3.5 turns out, but didn't notice a difference.

Also, I noticed that the engine has been making a "knocking" noise since the jetting, and the "swirl" noise that the 400 makes has gotten louder. I went to check the oil and for some reason it was filled up all the way. The last time I put oil in it I checked it and it was at the right level. It almost seems like the oil isn't getting to the engine, but im not sure.

If you can help me out in anyway, that would be great.

Thanks

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Braff1
Do you service Fox shocks. I would like to get my fronts from my predator revalved for my wt and xc racing.

Yes I sure do and I also have a spring kit to convert them to dual or triple rate springs.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Notu400ex
My beliefs...

Wheel offset impacts the force transferred to the shock.

The wider you spread the tires, the higher the transferred force. The reason is that it extends the length of the lever. The balljoints on the a-arms are not the fulcrum point - it is the a-arm bearings of the lower a-arm. The upper a-arm is merely a stabilizer to hold the hub in as a vertical position as possible through the full arc action of the a-arms (hence the upper a-arms only need to be strong enough to stop the force of the hub trying to move out of a vertical position).

The shock will always provide the same resistance but the situation here is that more force is being applied against it given all other variables are being kept constant. Thus this lowers the upper range that the shock will work for (meaning if it was originally setup for say a 170lb rider, it will now only be effective for maybe a 150lb rider).

Eventually, Santo will respond if everyone doesn't die of boredom first from reading this topic and all the responses...;)



Here is my opinion that everyone has been waiting for:
Wheel offset does effect the front suspension. It is not enough for most people to notice. It does have a noticeable effect on bump steer. This is my opinion on the matter and I'm going to leave everyone with that.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by jamiesel
Derisi might stop anwering questions here if others answer them for him. I really value his input. It would be kool if we left the answers for him. IMO

I'm sorry everyone for not being on here enough but I promise that is going to change now. I will do everything that I can to be on here as often as I can. On the offset wheel post everyone has had some interesting ideas. I think that everyone has done a great job researching the matter.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by 440ex dragger
This +4 Swingarm is on a 86 frame, but they arent useing the rear center mount, they have a piece welded to the bottom where the shock link fits. Can I use a durablue lowering strut with it or will I have to break the weld on it, I would like to be able to use the strut if possible, I am into drag racing and I would like to know if there are any good ways to lower a rearend without strapping the grabbar to the swingarm, do you have shocks that do that or am I just SOL.

That is going to be a hard question for me to answer without seeing it. The lowering strut would be the way to go. If you have any close up pictures that might would help.

mark @ fdo is another great example
That would be Mike at FDO and yes he is a real nice guy to talk to He just got better than 55hp out of a 480cc EX and right at 55 out of a YZ450 F. Can't wait to see what he can do with the quad.

[muff]

lol whoops I meant to say mike at fdo

santo dont worry about not bein on here 24/7, i think most of us realize you are a very busy man

[Sprttrx400ex]

I put on the R-4 slip-on and WB power filter. I put in a Dj160 main jet and the Djneedle with the clip on the 4th notch from the top. I turned the mixture screw out 3 turns. I left the stock pilot in.
I noticed the pipe was popping at high RPM. I put in a Dj165 main jet. It got a little better, but still pops a bit. I then moved the clip down a notch on the needle(richer). It ran like crap. It studdered and cut out alot. So I then put it on the 3rd notch from the top. The needle is now perfect, but I am not sure about everything else. So as it stand my jetting is:

Dj165 main jet
Dj needle 3rd notch.... perfect
stock pilot (do I need to change this?)
and ive been experimenting with the mixture screw from 2.5-3.5 turns out, but didn't notice a difference.

Also, I noticed that the engine has been making a "knocking" noise since the jetting, and the "swirl" noise that the 400 makes has gotten louder. I went to check the oil and for some reason it was filled up all the way. The last time I put oil in it I checked it and it was at the right level. It almost seems like the oil isn't getting to the engine, but im not sure.

If you can help me out in anyway, that would be great.

Thanks

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Sprttrx400ex
I put on the R-4 slip-on and WB power filter. I put in a Dj160 main jet and the Djneedle with the clip on the 4th notch from the top. I turned the mixture screw out 3 turns. I left the stock pilot in.


santo is known for his custom suspension....not that he couldnt help ya out but im figuring he wants to stay in his area of expertise.

[RUNMYTA]

Just wanted to give my Props to Santo... He is EXCELLENT in the suspension department. I ordered a set of Custom Axis shocks for my R from Santo and had my rear re-valved/ rebuilt. After driving 3 hours to his shop, he installed them, let me try them out and made all the final adjustments right there!! Not only does he know his stuff on Quad shocks but he is the man on 2 wheel bike shocks. Santo also did the suspension on my Bro's '03 YZ250 and it is unreal the difference!! Plus he took time from a Mid east XC and double check everything on the bike to make sure it was adjusted to specs!!:macho He has my buisness from now on! MIKE

[Ralph]

Here is my situation

i just bought a set of p.e.p zps shocks setup for a 180# rider stock width for a b level rider.

Will these need to be resprung and revalved for me at 160# b-level rider, +2 a-arms?

also if they do is it possible that they could switch the springs from my elkas wich were setup for 160# b-rider mx, +2.

Im tryng to go the chepest route out here...

[wilkin250r]

^^with the exception of the springs, this same question would tie into my question. This is truly something I've been interested in...

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Ralph
Here is my situation

i just bought a set of p.e.p zps shocks setup for a 180# rider stock width for a b level rider.

Will these need to be resprung and revalved for me at 160# b-level rider, +2 a-arms?

also if they do is it possible that they could switch the springs from my elkas wich were setup for 160# b-rider mx, +2.

Im tryng to go the chepest route out here...

Have you tried the shocks yet? If so how does everything feel? It is really hard to say if they are going to work or not because it depends on how pep setup the valving and springs. I am not sure right off if the elka springs will work. Just let me know how they work out.

[Ralph]

the shocks at the wuadshop right now getting rebuilt and and revalved along with some other shocks i sent him,.. thx anyways though

[sprtrx300ex]

I have a problem with my 300's suspension setup. I have a raptor shock with the raptor spring on it. I originaly had the 400ex spring on it, But it sat too low and bottom too easy even with the preload tightened all the way. Right now I have the raptor spring with about half the preload screwed down to withstand the jumps i do. I have stock front shocks.

My problem is that when i turn, I end up two-wheelin. I would like to have the rear lower, but then it will bottom out too much. The rear end already smees to go down really low when compressed. I have messed with the compression and everything, but no help.

What should I do?

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by RUNMYTA
Just wanted to give my Props to Santo... He is EXCELLENT in the suspension department. I ordered a set of Custom Axis shocks for my R from Santo and had my rear re-valved/ rebuilt. After driving 3 hours to his shop, he installed them, let me try them out and made all the final adjustments right there!! Not only does he know his stuff on Quad shocks but he is the man on 2 wheel bike shocks. Santo also did the suspension on my Bro's '03 YZ250 and it is unreal the difference!! Plus he took time from a Mid east XC and double check everything on the bike to make sure it was adjusted to specs!!:macho He has my buisness from now on! MIKE

Mike,
I am glad that you have been happy with my help! Thanks for all the credits!! :) I hope that everything is still working good for you and your brother! Did you get those parts that i shipped you??

[Santo DeRisi]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sprtrx300ex
I have a problem with my 300's suspension setup. I have a raptor shock with the raptor spring on it. I originaly had the 400ex spring on it, But it sat too low and bottom too easy even with the preload tightened all the way. Right now I have the raptor spring with about half the preload screwed down to withstand the jumps i do. I have stock front shocks.

My problem is that when i turn, I end up two-wheelin. I would like to have the rear lower, but then it will bottom out too much. The rear end already smees to go down really low when compressed. I have messed with the compression and everything, but no help.

What should I do? [/QUOTE

Sounds like to me you are going to have to get the shock revalved to work with that quad which would not be a problem! With the valving setup stiffer then you would be able to take the preload out which will make the quad sit lower for better cornering.

[sprtrx300ex]

I just recently got the shock back from getting rebuilt at the quad shop. Is there any way to make it sit lower, but not bottom?

Thanks for all your help.

[sprtrx300ex]

New situation:

I will be getting Ohlin front shocks off of a C-Dale Speed in a week or so. I have a stock rear shock. Will putting these front shocks on cause my back shock compress and rebound at different rate than the fronts? Do i need to get the rear rebuilt to allow the to move at the same rate as the fronts?

Thanks

[Santo DeRisi]

It is a good chance that it will change the back. It is something that you will have to try and see how it reacts with the different front shocks. Get them on the quad and ride it some and then let me know how it works out and we can go from there.

[Ralph]

I sent my p.e.p's to santo about a week ago for a revalve kit and i got them back 2 days ago, Very fast, very nice guy to deal with!

[sprtrx300ex]

Alright thnks Ill let you know.

i have my front works now & my rear shock is holding me back alot through the trails...I rarely jump & if I do im only going about 3 feet in the air. Do you think yo ucould revalve my stock rear shock to take in the little bumps in? it would also be nice to finally be able to sit on my seat through the trails too. :p

[Kilabanshee]

Hey santo. Iam gettin some used works shocks this weekend and i was looking into rebuilt shocks. I was wondering how the pro millenium kit will be compared to peps rebuild cause there around the same cost.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Ralph
I sent my p.e.p's to santo about a week ago for a revalve kit and i got them back 2 days ago, Very fast, very nice guy to deal with!

Let me know how everything turned out!!
Thanks!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Crazy400exMan
i have my front works now & my rear shock is holding me back alot through the trails...I rarely jump & if I do im only going about 3 feet in the air. Do you think yo ucould revalve my stock rear shock to take in the little bumps in? it would also be nice to finally be able to sit on my seat through the trails too. :p

Yeah that would be no problem at all! I can turn it around in about a week give or take a day or so. I can make it to where you can sit down the whole day :)

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Kilabanshee
Hey santo. Iam gettin some used works shocks this weekend and i was looking into rebuilt shocks. I was wondering how the pro millenium kit will be compared to peps rebuild cause there around the same cost.

I have worked with all the valving out there and the shim style valving like i use is much easier to tune and it controls the ride a lot better than the check ball and spring valving used by Works and PEP. I guarentee all my valving and setups.

[Jpoutlaw250R]

Hey I got a pair of triple rate pep's w/rezzys that'll need to be serviced soon. I am on kinda a tight budget and I was wonderin if your Pro Millenium kit will improve those much or would it be better to just get them serviced? Thanks.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Jpoutlaw250R
Hey I got a pair of triple rate pep's w/rezzys that'll need to be serviced soon. I am on kinda a tight budget and I was wonderin if your Pro Millenium kit will improve those much or would it be better to just get them serviced? Thanks.

I feel that the PM kit has a big advantage over PEP and Works valving. My kit is a lot easier to tune and it holds up a lot better. If you want i can PM you a quote on servicing and revalving?

[michael530]

i was wondering if you could rebuild my works on my 300ex?? how much would it cost??? and could you also rebuild a 300ex rear shock or would it just be better to get a new one thanks

[insaneracin2003]

do you guys service ohlins shocks,i need mine redone and rezzies put on them.thanks and what kind of price are we looking at...thay are front shocks i need them set-up for a 150lb rider racing mx...thanks

[lol]

Santo, can u send me and autographed poster if u pm me and i give u my adress:rolleyes:

[Ralph]

Originally posted by lol
Santo, can u send me and autographed poster if u pm me and i give u my adress:rolleyes:

Hes not gonna drop everything just to send you a poster. Give him some time no need for the roll eyes...

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by michael530
i was wondering if you could rebuild my works on my 300ex?? how much would it cost??? and could you also rebuild a 300ex rear shock or would it just be better to get a new one thanks

Check your PM.....

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by insaneracin2003
do you guys service ohlins shocks,i need mine redone and rezzies put on them.thanks and what kind of price are we looking at...thay are front shocks i need them set-up for a 150lb rider racing mx...thanks

I can do Ohlins no problem. What type of reservoir are you wanting?? There are a few ways that you can go on adding them.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by lol
Santo, can u send me and autographed poster if u pm me and i give u my adress:rolleyes:

If you PM me your address i will send you one no problem at all!!!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Ralph
Hes not gonna drop everything just to send you a poster. Give him some time no need for the roll eyes...

Ralph
Quit giving LOL a hard time :p

[lol]

:p sure, i'm on vacation now but i'll send u my adress when i get back!:D

[lol]

:p sure, i'm on vacation now but i'll send u my adress when i get back!:D

[insaneracin2003]

well,im not really sure,i have stock a-arms but i will be getting +2 in a few months.i want the shocks to be o-preload to bring the ride hite down a bit.what do you suggest?
do you guys have a website........thanks

[insaneracin2003]

well duhhhhhh look at yer sig,ya do have a website....:rolleyes:

[airheadedduner]

Can you convert std. ohlin's piggyback rezzy shocks to run the same zps spring setup as the shocks on a c-dale moto? Do you have a zps kit for a 400ex stock shock? I run arenacross and need the bike to sit low for all the tight turns(most of them hairpins) bit still take big whoops and jumps.

[Santo DeRisi]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by insaneracin2003
well,im not really sure,i have stock a-arms but i will be getting +2 in a few months.i want the shocks to be o-preload to bring the ride hite down a bit.what do you suggest?
do you guys have a website........thanks [/QUOTE

I should be able to ZPS those no problem. I have ZPSed Stock Polaris Preditors with Fox Shocks also. I know i can come up with something that will work great.

Did you check out the website???

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by airheadedduner
Can you convert std. ohlin's piggyback rezzy shocks to run the same zps spring setup as the shocks on a c-dale moto? Do you have a zps kit for a 400ex stock shock? I run arenacross and need the bike to sit low for all the tight turns(most of them hairpins) bit still take big whoops and jumps.

Like i said in the other post I know that i can get a ZPS setup that will work great on the Ohlins. I also have a ZPS setup for the 400EX. I can do the stock 400EX zps rear shocks in a few days turnaround!! I guarentee all my setups!!!

We have some indoor mx races here in the winter. As a matter of fact we have one this weekend!!

[jamiesel]

Originally posted by Santo DeRisi
Here is my opinion that everyone has been waiting for:
Wheel offset does effect the front suspension. It is not enough for most people to notice. It does have a noticeable effect on bump steer. This is my opinion on the matter and I'm going to leave everyone with that.

Thanks for the post! I have been curious about this for some time and my assumption was incorrect. I am currently trying to decide what to do with my yfz shocks. I hate them. Too stiff in the sand, too soft on the track. I would like to use some of the LT's I have laying around but it seems that may not be possible. I am in a holding pattern until more shows up on this. I have a couple pairs of 19 inchers collecting dust. Has anything like this been modified to work with either stock or aftermarket arms?

[linkcmd88]

how long till you make a shock setup for the 450r like the yfz

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by jamiesel
Thanks for the post! I have been curious about this for some time and my assumption was incorrect. I am currently trying to decide what to do with my yfz shocks. I hate them. Too stiff in the sand, too soft on the track. I would like to use some of the LT's I have laying around but it seems that may not be possible. I am in a holding pattern until more shows up on this. I have a couple pairs of 19 inchers collecting dust. Has anything like this been modified to work with either stock or aftermarket arms?

I know that the Roll Design frontend uses 18" shocks but i am not sure if anyone has a 19" setup yet. Houser might!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by linkcmd88
how long till you make a shock setup for the 450r like the yfz

It shouldn't be too long at all after the quad is released i will be working day and night on it so that i can get something ready for it as soon as possible!

Housers use 17" shocks. Gibsons will be ready soon I am not sure what length shock they will use

[Dave400ex]

On Houser's site they have 19.5" Elka's on their YFZ LT setup. Houser YFZ (http://www.houser-racing.com/aarms_landing.htm)

[Holeshot36]

Santo, don't know if this was asked alreadly or not (dont feel like reading 13 pages) but i was thinking of buying a front pair of elka's for xc 170lb rider, the problem is i weigh 150- are these worth getting or am i going to have to get them adjusted to my weight?

[jamiesel]

Originally posted by Dave400ex
On Houser's site they have 19.5" Elka's on their YFZ LT setup. Houser YFZ (http://www.houser-racing.com/aarms_landing.htm) :)

[Dave400ex]

Yeah when I saw that setup I just couldn't stop looking at it. That 450 looks so sweet. The more I look at Houser's stuff, the more I like it. Right now my dream quad is a full Elka/Houser YFZ.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Holeshot36
Santo, don't know if this was asked alreadly or not (dont feel like reading 13 pages) but i was thinking of buying a front pair of elka's for xc 170lb rider, the problem is i weigh 150- are these worth getting or am i going to have to get them adjusted to my weight?

being Elka's it is really hard to say. if you are getting them at a good deal to where you would still come out good if you have to get them redone then i would get them. If it were Axis adjustable i would say that they would work. It would be a hit and miss deal there.

[m250r]

Santo-
Do you think that it would be a good idea to put stock 400ex shocks on my 300ex? Would the shocks just bolt right on like regular 300ex shocks?
Thanks

[deepcj7]

Santo,
How does a pro rider pick which handlebar bend to use? Are there general guidlines/secrets to picking them? The reason I ask is when I race (MX or XC) in a stand up, aggresive posture I can feel my arms are not in a comfortable position and may be causing a little fatigue. Most handlebars I've tried feel comfortable when sitting or just feeling things out but you really never know until you start riding hard with them. I currently use Renthal 400EX bend and I'm 6' tall, if that helps. Should I try a pair from a dirt bike? Thanks for your help!;)

[Santo DeRisi]

400ex shocks will not bolt up to the 300 ex without making some new top shock mounts.
Sorry.



Originally posted by m250r
Santo-
Do you think that it would be a good idea to put stock 400ex shocks on my 300ex? Would the shocks just bolt right on like regular 300ex shocks?
Thanks

[Santo DeRisi]

I take it that you ride a 400EX?? If so i think you might like a +1" taller stem with a CR Hi bend bar. That is my preference. It is really hard for me to tell you what to use there. What is bothering you??


Originally posted by deepcj7
Santo,
How does a pro rider pick which handlebar bend to use? Are there general guidlines/secrets to picking them? The reason I ask is when I race (MX or XC) in a stand up, aggresive posture I can feel my arms are not in a comfortable position and may be causing a little fatigue. Most handlebars I've tried feel comfortable when sitting or just feeling things out but you really never know until you start riding hard with them. I currently use Renthal 400EX bend and I'm 6' tall, if that helps. Should I try a pair from a dirt bike? Thanks for your help!;)

[deepcj7]

Santo,
So how did you finally decide that you liked the CR high bend bars? Was it after you tried a bunch of different bends or you just made a guess and just got accustomed to that handlebar? Just about everything on an ATV is adjustable to suit your riding style and I figured handlebars would be one of them, such as pivoting them foward and aft adjustment, handlebar height and width, steering stem height. Is there a guidline to handlebar fitment, like while sitting on the seat and hand on grips your arms should be parallel with the ground etc.. Or is it trial and error? Sorry it's so confusing, but I thank you for your time!



I take it that you ride a 400EX?? If so i think you might like a +1" taller stem with a CR Hi bend bar. That is my preference. It is really hard for me to tell you what to use there. What is bothering you??

[slosh13]

Santo-

I am in a bind right now deciding whether or not to get long travel for mx. I hear the LT is whats hot right now adn its an awful lot of money to spend on it. I wanted tos ee what your thoughts were. Thanks for all your time.:D

[Kilabanshee]

I wasnot hear earlyer soo i dunno if anyone posted this yet. I was wondering how much it cost totall for a rebuilt back shock set up for xc racing. Kinda like the elka rebuild if you could send me prices or list them in here it would be a big help thanks. Congrats on the nice finishes in the race i saw on speed!!!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by deepcj7
Santo,
So how did you finally decide that you liked the CR high bend bars? Was it after you tried a bunch of different bends or you just made a guess and just got accustomed to that handlebar? Just about everything on an ATV is adjustable to suit your riding style and I figured handlebars would be one of them, such as pivoting them foward and aft adjustment, handlebar height and width, steering stem height. Is there a guidline to handlebar fitment, like while sitting on the seat and hand on grips your arms should be parallel with the ground etc.. Or is it trial and error? Sorry it's so confusing, but I thank you for your time!



I take it that you ride a 400EX?? If so i think you might like a +1" taller stem with a CR Hi bend bar. That is my preference. It is really hard for me to tell you what to use there. What is bothering you??

Really to me controls is something there there is no set standard on. It is something that you just have to be comfortable! That is something that i tried and i really like it. Now with my new Yamaha i am going to be trying a few different things but again it will end up being something that makes me feel comfortable.
Hope that helps a bit.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by slosh13
Santo-

I am in a bind right now deciding whether or not to get long travel for mx. I hear the LT is whats hot right now adn its an awful lot of money to spend on it. I wanted tos ee what your thoughts were. Thanks for all your time.:D

I think if you are serious and want to do it right the first time i would spend the extra money and get the Long travel like i said "especially" if you are going to be doing MX. I think you have a good bit to gain front the LT setup.

I would also recommend Custom Axis as the shock to use! Good quality and they will last a long time!! Money well spent!
I promise!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by sprtrx300ex
I just bought a set of Ohlins front shocks for my 400ex. They are off of a 2002 Cannondale speed. Right now they are a little bit too soft for the type of jumping I do. I am told that bore/stroke is wrong for a 400ex and no matter what I do, they arent going to work very well and bottom out oo soon. I was going to get them revalved stiffer, but now Im confused. Can you help explain this? Would getting them valved stiffer work?

I need a few measurements from you if you can.
I need the total length of the shock fully extended bolt hole to bolt hole.
Then i need a total shaft travel measurement from where the shaft comes out of the body to up under the bottom out bumper.

Give me these measurements and i will be able to help you.

[sprtrx300ex]

Here are the measurements.


From eye hole to eye hole fully extended - 16.5"
From bottom of body to top of bottomout bumper - 2.9"
From bottom of body to bottom of bottomout bumper - 4.5"

Also, can I get stiffer springs? Would this make them stiffer to prevent bottoming?


Thanks!

[Santo DeRisi]

Those measurements are pretty close to what you need. I think you will be fine with them.

You can either change the main springs or i can valve them a bit stiffer either way will help. So you have rode on them already? Where do they feel soft at??



Originally posted by sprtrx300ex
Here are the measurements.


From eye hole to eye hole fully extended - 16.5"
From bottom of body to top of bottomout bumper - 2.9"
From bottom of body to bottom of bottomout bumper - 4.5"

Also, can I get stiffer springs? Would this make them stiffer to prevent bottoming?


Thanks!

[motoboy66]

Santo,

I ordered some peg extenders from you about a year ago. I love them and can't see myself riding without them. I just wanted to say thanks. One thing though, the stickers you sent did not fit on my air scoops, so they are now on my truck. I think they look good there. I have read most of this thread, and I was wondering what your thoughts were on TCS shocks. I am thinking of these for XC, but did not see too much about them on here.

Thanks for your time.

Todd

[sprtrx300ex]

They are fine for normal trail riding, but when I get to jumping anything above 4ft, they start to bottom.

What would your price be to get them valved for a 170-180 lbs. MX rider?

Thanks for all your help!

[sprtrx300ex]

bump

[440ex kid]

Santo-Is there a difference in the shocks the pro's use for mx besides valving? The reason I ask is I look through a magazine and see cory ellis on a yfz, that is slammed to the ground, almost bottomed out. The swingarm is parallel to the ground, but he still can hit a 90 foot double and land smooth with out bottoming at all. Are the bodies shorter that allow more shaft travel? Is it possible that I can get a shock exactly identical to his setup?

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by 440ex kid
Santo-Is there a difference in the shocks the pro's use for mx besides valving? The reason I ask is I look through a magazine and see cory ellis on a yfz, that is slammed to the ground, almost bottomed out. The swingarm is parallel to the ground, but he still can hit a 90 foot double and land smooth with out bottoming at all. Are the bodies shorter that allow more shaft travel? Is it possible that I can get a shock exactly identical to his setup?

bump???

[Live2Ride300]

bump again

[Kilabanshee]

Santo sup brother this is the kid who called ur celli alittle while back and you called me back at like 10 o clock. I wanted to say great job in gncc your doing awesome you looked alittle nervous when bj was interviewing you great job man always rooting for ya.

[motoboy66]

Santo,

Thought you might like to see what I did with you parts.

Todd

[luvmyex]

I just want to say that Santo has super cust.service.I had a problem with my shocks.sent them back to him and had them back to me in less than a week total.And i know he is busy as hell right now so that kind of turn around is impressive.I havent had the chance to ride em yet but i will this weekend.He said to be sure and let him know how they are after.I feel if still have a problem that he would take care of it with no trouble at all.Thanks Santo,You do a great job!

[bmw500hp]

Santo:

I know you are super-busy rebuilding shocks but I would like to sidebar on this question...

Could you offer your opinion on the Scott,GPR,WER stabilizers?

Obviously, they are considerably more expensive, but just how much better are they then the pep/denton style. Are they worth such the investment?

thnx

[holeshot19]

i like the gpr less moving parts, allways hated how the hime joints wear out and the gpr takes up not frame room:huh

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by holeshot19
i like the gpr less moving parts, allways hated how the hime joints wear out and the gpr takes up not frame room:huh

19, Thanks! Elaborate on performance vs cost. How much better are they than the Denton/PEP style? What riding conditions was the difference most noticable.

[Dave400ex]

Also, with the GPR don't you have to run a stock length stem? I know for on a YFZ, you at least want a +1 stem.

[Fred55]

Hey Santo, I was wondering if you could PM me what's able to be done with my stock Predator shocks, also....could you include prices with that? Thanks!

[pairanutz]

mr.santo i have a question about preload -i have these awsome shocks i just got;) -they are great when its dry or a little wet-but today we went riding and it was so muddy that my fenders where sagging-with all the extra weight of the mudd they didnt work as good as when dry out-i would like to know is there a way i can set them stiffer for mudd riding and how much to move them -i think you move the clip on top off the spring in front and the adjuster nut in back -but i dont know how much to go -or is it a trial and error for each person and bike
thanks

[sparks400]

hey Santo whats it take to be a good XC racer??

[Greg Z]

[B]Hey santo, i was wondering how much would it cost to revalve stock cannondale moto shocks for a 400ex ( its already got the bushing for 400ex) with ZPS and tripple rate and valved for my weight?

please let me know ASAP

[Santo DeRisi]

Just wanted to let everyone know that i will be back on here later tonight to answer everyones questions so sorry about the wait!

:)

[turnandburn]

i am also interested in the pro shock setup question a couple post ago. what mx set up do they typically use.ride height and such. Thanks good luck this year,Turn And Burn baby!

[Dave400ex]

Santo I sent you an Email earlier from your tech section of your site!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by motoboy66
Santo,

I ordered some peg extenders from you about a year ago. I love them and can't see myself riding without them. I just wanted to say thanks. One thing though, the stickers you sent did not fit on my air scoops, so they are now on my truck. I think they look good there. I have read most of this thread, and I was wondering what your thoughts were on TCS shocks. I am thinking of these for XC, but did not see too much about them on here.

Thanks for your time.

Todd

Thank you for you order!! Well i think that TCS is more evolved around MX riding/racing. If you got some used TCS shocks i can set them up to work good for XC. If you want the best shocks for the money then i would go with Axis. As far as the quality of the parts Axis is definatly the way to go. A lot of this also depends on your budget too.

I would only get some if you can find a good price on a set of used ones then we can make them work for you.

I hope that helps a bit.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by sprtrx300ex
They are fine for normal trail riding, but when I get to jumping anything above 4ft, they start to bottom.

What would your price be to get them valved for a 170-180 lbs. MX rider?

Thanks for all your help!

Check your PM!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by 440ex kid
Santo-Is there a difference in the shocks the pro's use for mx besides valving? The reason I ask is I look through a magazine and see cory ellis on a yfz, that is slammed to the ground, almost bottomed out. The swingarm is parallel to the ground, but he still can hit a 90 foot double and land smooth with out bottoming at all. Are the bodies shorter that allow more shaft travel? Is it possible that I can get a shock exactly identical to his setup?

ok...
With some company's that may be true.
But.....There is another theory behind that also.
Simply put, if you can judge jumps very well for an example:
You have a 90 foot double with a down side landing if you can just about always land on that down side then the quad always lands smoother then when you land 10 feet past the landing on flat ground. So if you can judge the landings good then you can run a lower/softer setting like Kory does. Does that make since to you the way i explained it?

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Kilabanshee
Santo sup brother this is the kid who called ur celli alittle while back and you called me back at like 10 o clock. I wanted to say great job in gncc your doing awesome you looked alittle nervous when bj was interviewing you great job man always rooting for ya.

Thanks!!!

I know i need to get over that "being nervous" part on my interviews!!!

Thanks for watching me!:)

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by motoboy66
Santo,

Thought you might like to see what I did with you parts.

Todd

Looks to me that you did a great job installing those!! I hope that you are enjoying those!?!?

[sparks400]

hey santo i always c u on tv, i like ur style, but i got a question, what does it take to be a pro XC racer, and what do u HAVE to have on ur bike for it to be ready. how do u prepare for a big race like those on tv?? thank you

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by luvmyex
I just want to say that Santo has super cust.service.I had a problem with my shocks.sent them back to him and had them back to me in less than a week total.And i know he is busy as hell right now so that kind of turn around is impressive.I havent had the chance to ride em yet but i will this weekend.He said to be sure and let him know how they are after.I feel if still have a problem that he would take care of it with no trouble at all.Thanks Santo,You do a great job!

I just ALWAYS want my customers happy no matter what!!!!!! Definately let me know how everything works out!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by bmw500hp
Santo:

I know you are super-busy rebuilding shocks but I would like to sidebar on this question...

Could you offer your opinion on the Scott,GPR,WER stabilizers?

Obviously, they are considerably more expensive, but just how much better are they then the pep/denton style. Are they worth such the investment?

thnx

GPR is definately the BEST damper on the market!! It has a nice breakaway action when you turn the bars so far. Like when you are turning sharp the damper will let go and not make any resistance till you turn it back to the breakaway point. It is kind of hard for me to explain.

The GPR also last a long time before needing serviced!

Put it this way i would NEVER buy anything else other than the GPR!

If you bought a GPR it would be a long time before you would ever have to buy another one!

I hope that i answered your question like you wanted! :D

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Dave400ex
Also, with the GPR don't you have to run a stock length stem? I know for on a YFZ, you at least want a +1 stem.

No.
With the new GPR 2.0 dampers you can run a +1 stem. The new GPR mounts under the bars which will raise the bars up about 1/2 - 3/4 of a inch. You can go to our website and click on the GPR banner and check out the new version there. I have a standard height stem with a GPR 2.0 on my YFZ and i think that the stem is plenty high enough.

We are a dealer for GPR.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Fred55
Hey Santo, I was wondering if you could PM me what's able to be done with my stock Predator shocks, also....could you include prices with that? Thanks!

Have you been to our website and seen the Preditor shocks that we converted to Triple rates with Reservoirs?? If not go to http://www.derisiracing.com and check them out. Send me an email after you see them from the site and i will give you the pricing.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by pairanutz
mr.santo i have a question about preload -i have these awsome shocks i just got;) -they are great when its dry or a little wet-but today we went riding and it was so muddy that my fenders where sagging-with all the extra weight of the mudd they didnt work as good as when dry out-i would like to know is there a way i can set them stiffer for mudd riding and how much to move them -i think you move the clip on top off the spring in front and the adjuster nut in back -but i dont know how much to go -or is it a trial and error for each person and bike
thanks

Each time that you move that clip down 1 notch you are adding 1/8th inch more preload. You would probably want to go at least 2 notches down for more muddy conditions If you go too much you might make the front end push in corners. That is something that you are going to have to test and see what works best for you.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by sparks400
hey Santo whats it take to be a good XC racer??

A Lot of riding and getting to know your quad.
Staying in shape. (No candy bars) :)
And more riding!

Basically eat, sleep, and drink atvs and racing.

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Greg Z
[B]Hey santo, i was wondering how much would it cost to revalve stock cannondale moto shocks for a 400ex ( its already got the bushing for 400ex) with ZPS and tripple rate and valved for my weight?

please let me know ASAP

Tried to PM you but your box was full!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by turnandburn
i am also interested in the pro shock setup question a couple post ago. what mx set up do they typically use.ride height and such. Thanks good luck this year,Turn And Burn baby!

A lot of that depends on the tracks that they are running. You can start with about 7-8 inches of ground clearance up under the motor. You want to measure from the bottom of the frame around the footpeg area to the floor and then you will needd to measure from the bottom of the frame to the floor around the front of the motor right before the frame starts to kickup in the front and you want the back measurement to be around 1/2 inch lower then the front measurement. That is a good starting place then you will need to fine adjust from there to suit you.

Thanks!

[Santo DeRisi]

Originally posted by Dave400ex
Santo I sent you an Email earlier from your tech section of your site!

ok i will check it out.

[Greg Z]

sry santo try now :)

[motoboy66]

Santo,

I posted the question about the TCS schocks for XC, thanks for the reply. Axis are out of my price range. How are your shocks coming along? When do you think they might be available, and about how much? If you sugest getting used TCS then having you set them up, it might be easier to just get your shocks.

Todd