View Full Version : Bearing carrier Tapered or double row?
howboutchaw
01-11-2004, 11:04 AM
Need opinions what everyone thought would be strongest?
Which one has less drag to spin?
I always thought the tapered would be the best, but I do not know if the handle the dirt well.
remlapr
01-11-2004, 12:24 PM
tapered are suppose to be 15 times stronger then the regular bearings that are used in double row carriers. I have a RAD tapered and it's awesome, even comes with a new billet brake stay.
Silverfox@C&DRacing
01-11-2004, 03:18 PM
I have the rad tapered carrier also. :)
Dave400ex
01-11-2004, 03:46 PM
The RAD carrier is very trick how it has the grease zerk on the side. More companies need to do that.
jhr400EX
01-11-2004, 06:28 PM
I have the RAD tapered carrier and absolutely love it. It has held up perfectly for over 6 months of hard use.
jhr400EX
01-11-2004, 06:29 PM
I have the RAD tapered carrier and absolutely love it. I would highly recommend it.
K_Fulk
01-11-2004, 06:36 PM
My rpm tapered bearings are still good after more then 2 years.
Jnine
01-11-2004, 11:11 PM
Hello Guys:
You are right that the tapered bearings are stronger. However, there are some major drawbacks.
1: No seals at the bearing!! That is why a grease zerk is necessary. Actually, on a sealed bearing carrier like the stock one or the twin row carriers an outside zerk is a waste. You can't get grease past the seals and into the bearings anyway. Some idiot came up with that, and now half the riders panic if they don't have it.
2: Since the tapered bearings have a larger OD, it will take away chain adjustment. You probably only get about 1/2 the chain adjustment from a tapered carrier.
3: The other bad thing is setting the preload. Set it too tight and you definitely stress the motor. Set it too loose and everything feels loose on the backend, because it is. I've seen one of the best mechanics in the business have a problem with this. Here's the deal... If it was that great all the pros would run them, and I don't know anybody that does. In the end, a twin row carrier is more than strong enough. It's a good idea in theory, but not much more than a clever sales gimmick in the real world.
Hope that helps you out.
John, I always appreciate your input:)
I knew about #1 and #2 other than the reason the taperd carrier needs a zerk.
I knew nothing about #3:(
I have heard that the tapered row carriers are good for flat track racing and TT racing, can you elaborate on this?
Joe
Jnine
01-11-2004, 11:38 PM
Hello again:
I didn't know that some people liked them for the TT or flat track stuff. For motocross nobody that I know of uses one. Perhaps it is because of the constant pounding, and their tendancy to come loose or go out of adjustment, which brings us right back to the proper preload thing. Maybe for TT it doesn't get pounded so much, and will hold it's setting. Then again, a stock carrier would be strong enough for that. This tapered setup cost Travis Spader $5000 at a race a few years ago. They tried one of these carriers, and Travis thought he was siezing the motor. TC changed the top end, and it was still laboring like crazy just to move the quad. Only then did they find out the damn thing had adjusted itself tighter and was really working the motor just to move the quad. This episode cost Travis the race and the $5000 first place cash. However, the guy who came up with this POS made plenty, and he still does!
That was an expensive carrier!
The only positive thing that I have heard was that they can handle the side load that better TT and flat track racing has. I'm not sure that is the right terminolgy but I think so.
There was a recent thread that brought up the point that automotive hubs have tapered bearings. Maybe it's a case of comparing apples to oranges?
Joe
Jnine
01-12-2004, 12:11 AM
You are probably right about the side load on TT's, and a tapered bearing would handle that very well. You are also correct that all cars and trucks that I am familiar with have tapered bearings at the wheels also, but then again nobody jumps their Buick 70'. However, I can think of 1 big difference. In every other application that I can think of, there is a locking device to keep the preload constant on the tapered bearing. On your car or truck you tighten the bearing together, back it off just a slight amount so it spins freely but has no play, and then lock that position in place with a fine thread nut AND A cotter pin! I think the cotter pin prevents the thing from coming loose.
Originally posted by Jnine
You are probably right about the side load on TT's, and a tapered bearing would handle that very well. You are also correct that all cars and trucks that I am familiar with have tapered bearings at the wheels also, but then again nobody jumps their Buick 70'. However, I can think of 1 big difference. In every other application that I can think of, there is a locking device to keep the preload constant on the tapered bearing. On your car or truck you tighten the bearing together, back it off just a slight amount so it spins freely but has no play, and then lock that position in place with a fine thread nut AND A cotter pin! I think the cotter pin prevents the thing from coming loose.
I understad what you're saying for the most part but when you say preload it throws me off. When I hear preload in reference to quads I think of shocks.
Can you explain in more laymans terms?
Joe
remlapr
01-12-2004, 08:59 AM
I think he means how much you tighten the carrier assembly on the bearings. It's not like a stock or double row where tightening it is just to keep everything from moving side to side. With a tapered setup, tightening the carrier actually puts direct pressure on the bearings and that's what hold them in place, which in turn holds the axle in place. You want it just tight enough so that there is no play in the axle but not so tight that there is drag on the bearings.
Jnine
01-12-2004, 09:02 AM
Hello again:
Maybe I'm not using the correct term by saying "preload" on the tapered bearing. It is exactly like the side load from a TT race that you are talking about however. With a tapered bearing you have one half that contains all the rollers, and the other half which is the race, and that is tapered to fit inside the rollers. That half forms the little banked track the rollers will run on. When you put the two together, somehow you have to make sure the little banked track doesn't back away from the rollers, or everything will be too loose. Usually there is some sort of threaded collar holding the two together. The trick is to adjust the two together so it is just tight enough to take out any free play. However, if you get them too tight they will actually be hard to turn. In fact, you can tighten them so much they won't turn at all. Anyway, that little bit of pressure that holds the two together I was calling preload.
Hope that explains it a little better. You know, some things are easier to describe in person....
remlapr
01-12-2004, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by Jnine
However, I can think of 1 big difference. In every other application that I can think of, there is a locking device to keep the preload constant on the tapered bearing. On your car or truck you tighten the bearing together, back it off just a slight amount so it spins freely but has no play, and then lock that position in place with a fine thread nut AND A cotter pin! I think the cotter pin prevents the thing from coming loose.
I'm using a RAD double pinch bolt locknut on mine that I put locktight on and cranked down really good and so far so good.
Pappy
01-12-2004, 09:10 AM
lol...way to lay it out for us john:p
and now someone please go jump thier dads buick:devil: :D
Dave400ex
01-12-2004, 09:19 AM
Very good information. Better yet, the double rows are usually quite a bit cheaper!
Originally posted by Jnine
Hello again:
Maybe I'm not using the correct term by saying "preload" on the tapered bearing. It is exactly like the side load from a TT race that you are talking about however. With a tapered bearing you have one half that contains all the rollers, and the other half which is the race, and that is tapered to fit inside the rollers. That half forms the little banked track the rollers will run on. When you put the two together, somehow you have to make sure the little banked track doesn't back away from the rollers, or everything will be too loose. Usually there is some sort of threaded collar holding the two together. The trick is to adjust the two together so it is just tight enough to take out any free play. However, if you get them too tight they will actually be hard to turn. In fact, you can tighten them so much they won't turn at all. Anyway, that little bit of pressure that holds the two together I was calling preload.
Hope that explains it a little better. You know, some things are easier to describe in person....
Thanks John and remlapr.....
Thats kinda what I thought, just wanted to make sure for myself and the others that read this thread;)
I'll be sticking with my twin row even if I get into flat track racing:)
I know what you mean about explaining things in person ;)
Joe
Knips178
01-13-2004, 07:36 AM
So what is the twin row carrier of choice for MX?
Jnine
01-13-2004, 08:21 AM
Which carrier? The cheapest.. Everyone is using the same bearing, and the housing is all aluminum. Actually one of the most important parts is the spacer tube between bearings. I've seen one company use muffler tubing, and when that crushes down on the end your axle will feel loose. TO fix that you will tighten it again, which side loads the bearings (exactly what they are NOT meant for) and you will blow them out. I would try the Lonestar cast carrier. They cast the part and then machine the surfaces, and the price is good, I've seen them and they are plenty strong enough. Call and ask about the middle spacer tube, and ask if it is hardened and will crush down. It's a nice part.
WOW
Great info John. I run the twin row carrier mainly because of the price I got it for, but to know how particular the Tapered carrier is I'm glad I did opt for the cheaper of the two.
Making a copy of this in the FAQ forum...good info.:cool:
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