View Full Version : Competition

06-06-2012, 10:19 AM
I want honest answers here. I want to know if anyone has a 125 that can keep up with the 90cc Apexes and DRR's. One of my racers has a Pitster 125. The motor is heavily modded, it has Matt from Pitster's 125 4-valve head on it with a custom cut piston. It also has another of Matts special trannys in it, and he is in the process of getting one of Matt's 5 speeds. He is running a Mikuni flat slide carb and an aftermarket exhaust. There isnt much stock on this quad. It runs really strong, but quads with an R/T 70 will out run it and once you get into the Malossi and 2 Fast 86cc quads, it doesnt stand a chance. I've seen a few worked 150's that can come close to matching thes 2 strokes, but those arent allowed in the 90 classes we run. The 125 is a fast reliable quad, but it cant keep up with the 90's or even some stong 70's.

Anyone got one that can, and please no BS here guys, my buddy who owns the Pitster is pretty bummed about it, getting ready to sell it and move his kid up to schoolboy.

06-06-2012, 10:59 AM
Havent seen too many pitsters that will run with the DRR/Apexes. However, I know Logan's TRX90/124cc seems to be doing well against them. The Pitster motor is somewhat of a Honda copy so Ive gotta believe its possible. I dont know Matt @ Pitster, but have heard that Terry @ Firepowerminis builds SICK pitster motors. He has built us a few TRX125's, hands down, awesome builder, more creative than anyone out there in my opinion.

We are using a head on one of our motors that I have yet to see anyone fit to any of the Honda minis including the pitbike world

06-06-2012, 11:57 AM
Just not going to happen.........You have to have a rider thats going to keep in pinned the whole track, and even then it going to be tough against CVT's. Best chance is if it rains or is muddy as hell, then you have got the best shot. Pitsters are neat little machines, but I dont see where that 125 has a shot against most of the 90's at Nats or for that matter the 70cvt class either....

I agree Logan is riding the **** outta that honda, but thats just a tough battle with the caliber of the CVT riders in that class. It is fun watching him ride that thing though!

06-06-2012, 02:42 PM
I have to agree with Bryan .. i just bought a pitser 125 and just sold a built apex 90 with malossi big bore and no it wont touch what i just sold .. but i dont run nats and i did it so i wasnt working on a cvt after every moto .. lol i feel they need to change to rules and let 150cc 4 strokes in with those 2 strokes and put it more in the hands of the riders and then watch some great racing happen.. .

06-06-2012, 08:13 PM
We have several 125 Firepower built motors. Hands down best 125 builder around. Matt is more of a big bore 155cc plus builder. They have 2 totally different concepts.
Our 4 valve is strong but Terry set it up a little low on compression due to my son Adam age of 8 and lack of experience. We are in our 2nd year. Right now im having a local guy up the compression. In one series we run against Maximum RPM Too Fast Apexes a Fischer Mod with CR85 and a couple of TRX mods with cr85's.
Yes we get beat a lot but not always last! All the kids are 12 or 13 besides Jacob on the Fischer he is 9 with a few more years experience. But Jacob got 9th at Walnut in 90 mod jr and 6th at ballance . Only 2 nats he ever ran.
So even though we get faster each week i dont think there is any way in hell these motors will out run the other quads with out a lot more cc's. Dont let anyone blow smoke these are 15 hp motors. Thats it!! I think the best set up is the takegawa Super R +2 head. The 4 valve cam design is lacking. Call Mini Mob racing, the North America Takegawa dealer.We have one in the quad and it ripps. Its also on the old style bottom end but that does allow us to pull 2nd gear starts.
They will run with mild built cvts but not mods too fasts. Hopefully taking him to Lorretta's to see how we run in production class.
I do think with the ATV Fourplay suspension they can compete, it means more than a built motor. We have a stock Pitster for fun , a full blown ATV four play mx Pitster and on the way a ATV Fourplay CR85 powered Pitster. So That Should Answer The ?

06-07-2012, 06:35 AM
Thanks for the honesty, I too feel that the 125 is just not enough. They are a good quad, just cant hang with the fast 2 strokes. If they let the diplacement bump up to 155, then thing woould be interesting. I always figured, that you need to double the displacement of a 4 stroke to equal the power of a 2 stroke. A 50cc 2 stroke usually runs a little better that a 90cc 4 stroke.
A 125cc 2 stroke is close to a 250cc 4 stroke and so on, so I figure a 155 4 stroke would be equal to a strong 70cc and might run with 90's. I wonder how hard it would be to get AMA/ATVA to bump the 4 stroke up to a 155 for the 90 class next season? I feel an email coming...

06-07-2012, 09:31 AM
I've seen a 70 R/T out run a mildly modded 400's.

06-07-2012, 03:09 PM
The motorcycle side (AMA Motocross) is letting the 150r run in the Mini SR divisions which is:
79 - 85 2 stroke and 75 - 150 4 stroke. That is new this year.

06-07-2012, 05:10 PM
Ive heard a lot of chatter over the years of guys wanting to get the ama to bump up the cc's but never heard any more. I think with Yamaha putting out the 125 raptor is what is going to kill it. If yamaha or Honda would make a competitive quad with a 150 cc motor then you might see it. It sure would help the production class four strokes vs the wiley mod cobra motor.
A lot of what your seeing when they say a 70 beat a 90 or what ever is the rider.I know even with the cr 85 Pitster coming we are not going to flat out beat some kids till we get more experience and just plane faster. We love the Pitster because my 8 yearold is tall and lanky. 4'10" right now and growing like a weed. But we have 3 quads he can run into his early teens.
Again Ill say with out Toms suspension your cutting your kid short. In the woods not as big a deal but on the MX track a must have.

06-08-2012, 01:18 PM
Not trying to be a dick here.....But its hard to compare what a quad will do at locals. When I posted earlier, I was mainly talking Nationals. Depending on the caliber of riders at locals it should do well. But when you start talking Nationals, its a totally different ballgame. Most National classes have 2 or 3 really fast kids up front, usually a pack of 4 or 5 more 10 to 15 seconds behind, and then everybody else. Point being its hard to judge from local racing what a quad can actually do against great riders.
I too agree that the cc's should be larger on a 4 stroke for the 90 classes, but keep in mind that the last few years the Supermini class at Nationals has been won on a 150 4 stroke, and they are competing against 105 2 strokes. If im not mistaken its been 3 years and running.

Like I said earlier, it really depends on the rider, but the 125 would have to have a rider like Benjamin Brocato riding it to have a chance against built CVT's. 2 strokes just scream!!!!!

06-08-2012, 06:30 PM
You are correct about the supermini class and the great riders at Nationals. But the winning supermini motor would not be legal for production even with the increase in cc's.
The fourstroke increase would have to be for production only and then it would give the Pitsters and Hondas a better chance against the wiley cobra motor.It might even bring more quads to the gate and maybe they could split the classes.
Checked at Walnut and I dont think there was a rider in that class younger than 13. We are looking forward to the challenge but know its going to be a up hill battle when we throw our 8 yearold out there.

06-09-2012, 05:32 AM
Yeah 8 years old is young to be thrown out there. But on another hand kids seem to get faster quicker when riding with older and faster riders. You were asking earlier about AMA rule changes.....They usually have a meeting for rider suggestions after the banquet in Pigeon forge thats where you would want to voice your opinion.

06-14-2012, 01:34 AM
For some reason it just seems AMA is behind when it comes to quads. I never understood how they couldn't see the need for a change.

Redonkulousruntsracing, alot of your buddies problem is letting Matt build him a motor lol. He's somewhat clueless when it comes to the knowledge that Terry has. That guy is McGyver when it comes to those China engines. I'm sure we had the first China motor to run away from 2fasts off the gate. Rider was just too young to keep up with older/faster kids that didn't have to shift. Terry is hands down "the best" there is in my opinion.

06-14-2012, 06:11 AM
Redonkulousruntsracing, alot of your buddies problem is letting Matt build him a motor lol. He's somewhat clueless when it comes to the knowledge that Terry has. That guy is McGyver when it comes to those China engines. I'm sure we had the first China motor to run away from 2fasts off the gate. Rider was just too young to keep up with older/faster kids that didn't have to shift. Terry is hands down "the best" there is in my opinion. [/B][/QUOTE]

I didnt want to be the one to say it, but I've heard the same about Matt......

06-14-2012, 07:07 AM
I will pass alll of this on to my friend with the Matt built Pitster.

To be honest, I think he giving up on it, his boy is turning 12 soon and he weighs 150 lbs. He has an 08 Honda 450 chassis that is recieving a 09 250 out of a bike to run in the schoolboy class locally, I dont know what class he will be able to run his new creation in at Nationals, but it should be fun.

06-14-2012, 10:01 AM
Lol, 150 pds he's not going to see much in terms of competing with higher HP 2 strokes on an underpowered China engine. That's more of his problem than anything. Put a 100pd kid on it and he gets just that much more performance from it. Jam was only a tad over 70 pds on the monster we had. It was like the motor didn't realise he was on the bike LMAO.

I don't mean to say anything negative about Matt. But I tell it how it is! I've learned my lesson dealing with him from a few different personal experiences. They were claiming the Pitster engines had the "close ratio" trannys in them. Some were... Some weren't. Pretty much came down to which bike they sent you after you purchased one LMAO. VERY deceptive!