View Full Version : Help me out..KTM 450sx or Can-Am 450mx!!??
PeterBenincasa
08-22-2009, 12:56 AM
Okay so here is the question I want answered!..Buy a KTM 450SX, or a Can-Am DS450 MX??
Opinions are nice but I want to hear from some people who have one of the quads or know what they are talking about..
I am a B class rider bout to step up and need a solid machine!
You got the KTM..
Big price
Stiff shocks(I weigh 145lbs)
Lower ride hight
More Motor
Reliable?
And the Can-Am..
Less Expensive
More plush suspension
High ride height
Less motor
Needs some Mods
Let me know what you think!...
mickley.28
08-22-2009, 08:18 AM
I've been looking at the same thing...I'm a c class rider and moving into the b class next year and can't decide what bike to get. I've been on a yfz the last two years and i wanna try something different. I can't spend more than 10,000 so i was looking at the can am, ktm, or a used allready built honda or suzuki. Which do you guys recommend...I realize stock for stock the ktm will destroy the can am but the can am is cheaper than the ktm so i'll have an extra 2000 to put into the motor...also the can am pays really good contingincys (1000 dollars for first at nationals)???
PeterBenincasa
08-22-2009, 10:57 AM
Well another point I need to get across is I'm not buying anything under an 09 bike...fact is I beat the hell outta my race bikes..
I had a 2005 houser,elka,baldwin, national bike and that was nothing but problems.
ltr311
08-22-2009, 02:28 PM
Im telling ya bro. You will have issues with the can am. I liked mine but it was a time bomb. So many issues with those bikes when ridden hard.. They ktm has a few minor issues but all in alll its a much better machine no doubt. Find someone that has one and ride it, it will sell it self.
TeryxMudder
09-06-2009, 11:11 AM
Have you looked at a Polaris Outlaw with the KTM engines? The Polaris chassis is really really well thought out in my IMO.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2008-POLARIS-450-MXR-CHEAP_W0QQitemZ220475848312QQcmdZViewItemQQptZATVs ?hash=item3355627678&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
TWISTED
09-06-2009, 01:11 PM
Ride orange.... You won't regret it.........
GE4x4
09-06-2009, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by TeryxMudder
Have you looked at a Polaris Outlaw with the KTM engines? The Polaris chassis is really really well thought out in my IMO.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-2008-POLARIS-450-MXR-CHEAP_W0QQitemZ220475848312QQcmdZViewItemQQptZATVs ?hash=item3355627678&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245
I would agree. These full race quads don't have a whole lot stock, and the Outlaw chassie IMHO is set up better then the KTM. The KTM has no rake to the front which makes it a bit ruffer in the suspension department. But if you need the SX engine, then the KTM is hard to beat.
TeryxMudder
09-08-2009, 07:37 AM
Originally posted by GE4x4
I would agree. These full race quads don't have a whole lot stock, and the Outlaw chassie IMHO is set up better then the KTM. The KTM has no rake to the front which makes it a bit ruffer in the suspension department. But if you need the SX engine, then the KTM is hard to beat.
The KTM has no rake to the front which makes it a bit ruffer in the suspension department.
This.
Which way back in the 1980's ATV racing sceen. The fact that the Honda had rake to the front suspesion is exactly what made the Honda TRX 250R chassis superior to the Suzuki LT 250R QuadRacer and the Yamaha Banshee!
\\Thread\\
quadscrib
09-08-2009, 12:32 PM
Funny I see alot of rake on the models I look at.:confused:
ltr311
09-08-2009, 04:48 PM
The ktm has no issue with rake. Has plenty, you just have to open you eyes.LOL
GE4x4
09-08-2009, 05:16 PM
All the XC quads I've seen the frames are flat like the YFZ. If there is rake in the frame, it is very little.
quadscrib
09-08-2009, 07:08 PM
Im 99.9% sure MX and XC are the same frame.
quadscrib
09-08-2009, 07:22 PM
And not trying to bust yer balls but there is absolutly NO comparison between the quality of a Polaris product or a KTM product. I dont even own a KTM And I have three Polaris' and the biggest yank w/ any of them is how "just almost good enough" they are built. The sleds can be ok but the quads are dead last in any form of fit and finish or quality of materials, sorry just a fact.
That was one of the main differences between the ol' LT250R and the TRX250R as well, not just rake. Trust me Ive owned more than one of both.
Not tat my word is gospel but Im a 110% YAMAHA fan but Im going KTM totally for the quality, and weight, and performance, and, and, and ...lol
TeryxMudder
09-08-2009, 07:35 PM
and and and it must be teh european technologies! EH.
I have an 08 ds450. I race motocross and have no problems with it. It is a great machine. If you get a new clutch basket and a few other mods you will never have any problems with it
znutt
02-23-2011, 01:01 PM
i have had both the ds and now race the ktm 450sx
and they are apples and oranges or should i say banna's and oranges
the can am super plush suspension i would even go as far as saying the best suspension on a quad made today all quads have there problems in being reliable its all a matter of how you take care of them the motor on the can am is pretty weak in bottom end and has average topend really needs modded to be competative the frame also needs reinforced and build quality really is about the same as a honda or kawi but just not yamaha or ktm standards
the ktm has by far far far far the best motor ever put in a quad i mean these things run like a built honda stock out of the box
does have a lower center of gravity but is also twitchy with a mid corner push all of this can be taken care of but again has to be modded
so really its all in what you want out of your quad neither is wrong choice and both can be had now for really cheap
scotturban
03-08-2011, 10:42 AM
i'd definatly go with the ds, Everyone i've talked to thats racing the ktm says they can't keep them running, we have a built 08 ds and have had really no issues at all of any kind with it, I'd go with the can-am
Kawie450r
03-08-2011, 06:40 PM
I do have to agree with scotturban. Have heard of lots of sx ktm's blowing up with very low hours on them. Havent heard to many bad things on the ds side. I mean i know a built race quad is gonna need high maintenece and everything but a rebuild every 40 hours on the ktm???? Idk what you guys make for a living but i cant afford to buy a 11k quad and then rebuild it every 40 hours. IMO can am unless you got mad cash to rebuild a ktm. And the 30 day warranty. What a joke.
SIDCON
03-10-2011, 03:00 PM
I have a 450sx and it has plenty of rake, maybe from looking at pics it doesnt but they do. If you change the clutch plates over to honda plates and jet them correct they are extremely reliable. Engine failure in the KTM is due to the stock clutch plates excessive discharge of fiber material. After my first ride with the KTM I changed the oil and was contaminated with cotton looking gause which is the clutch fibers, when all that gets into the crank all hell breaks lose and causes the dreaded premature engine failures. Change these and they are SAWEET! Also 49+ HP out of the box added with super light weight is a perfect mix. Plus your getting cromolly frame, a-arms, swingarm, axle, aluminum stem and a poop load of other goodies the competition doent through in. As someone said, its comparing apples and bananas. Another thing to look at is the actually feel of the quad. I road a DS quite a few times before buying the KTM and they feel to big and bulky to me, just my opinion. The KTM has an extremely light and flickable feel. Another thing is the KTM is the easiest quad made to date to work on, coming from the LTR this is huge to the people who work on there own quads and when racing time matters. Just a few more things to look at. You will not regret getting the KTM. After having over 30 quads in my life time this KTM is way beyond any of them in my book.
Kawie450r
03-10-2011, 03:10 PM
^^^See now i like hearing stuff like that.
Even though i have heard alot of bad about them for some odd reason i still kinda want one lol.
YFZ_Racer42
03-10-2011, 03:18 PM
What plates have you installed in yours? 450R's? I'm looking to buy a 450SX eventually...
SIDCON
03-10-2011, 03:37 PM
Heres the full walk thru of the KTM that reveals all the thought and design time that was put into the KTM. Well worth watching
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZK94s-yz2I&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZAKoxplrJ0&feature=related
SIDCON
03-10-2011, 03:41 PM
Ill post the part numbers for the honda plates as soon as I get back to the shop, I also upgraded the springs to since I was already in there. I will post the numbers for that aswell.
YFZ_Racer42
03-11-2011, 08:03 AM
Is the problem only with the OEM plates? If you just put Hinson or EBC or whatever plates it should be fine right?
harry_ss
03-14-2011, 12:46 PM
I have both the ds450 and 505sx.
The can am is a great quad, good susp, good motor (not so strong as the ktm), etc, but the rotax is reliable, atleast more than the ktm and also the transmission.
Until last week, i loved my ktm, it was a rocket right out of the box, it pulls hard in any gear, lot of power in all the powerband, but suddenly started to sound realy bad, it has 15hrs!!. (and i thinks is the piston). I changed the oil after 5 hrs. and when i pulled the oil, it came out like new so i cant understand how this thing failed so soon? its supposed to be the highest quality quad of the market!!
So, what you gain buying an "excellent" quad, with great a-arms, good shocks, a "built honda motor", awesome brakes, light weight, beadlocks wheels, easy to work on it, if its going to crack the piston after 15 hrs or less? and im not the 1st person with this problem.
SIDCON
03-14-2011, 03:15 PM
sorry for the delay, my Ipad glass broke after falling off the work bench. Just got the new one so back in business. I assure you the biggest problem with these engines are the stock clutch plates. The best place to research is ktm HQ .com. I would use only the Honda plates not aftermarket, they are proven and have the least discharge. Stock numbers are (steel) 22321-KZ3-690 and (fiber) 22201-meb-670. You want to order one less each then stock KTM because they are thicker. The springs I used are EBC TR-267801. I have 52 hours on this KTM and runs the same as when I first bought it (after jetting that is, the need to be re-jetted from factory but no big deal). Maybe Im just lucky but the first thing I did was change those plates and jetted it correctly. This is the best ATV I have ever owned (in 4stroke anyways) I havent been this happy since my Roll design 250R.
Edit: I also use Rotella T full synthetic and change it religiously after every other riding day and the oil filter after ever 2 oil changes. Its incredible oil and its only $19 a gallon at walmart. Only costs a few bucks per change. Been using it for years.
YFZ_Racer42
03-14-2011, 03:29 PM
yeah but the problem with ktmhq is that it says that there's no topic anywhere??
harry_ss
03-14-2011, 09:37 PM
www.ktmatvhq.com that is the best ktm forum.
SIDCON
03-14-2011, 09:40 PM
There's quit a few topics on the clutch plates, here is a link to kiwi's 6 basic mods to make the ktm pretty much bullet proof, I did all these mods and it's been flawless.
http://www.ktmatvhq.com/forum/invision/index.php?showtopic=6881
SIDCON
03-14-2011, 09:42 PM
Here's another on just the plates and springs,
http://www.ktmatvhq.com/forum/invision/index.php?showtopic=6482&hl=Clutch+plates
YFZ_Racer42
03-15-2011, 06:41 AM
Now it says that I don't have the permission to view those topics, do I have to pay??
Kawie450r
03-15-2011, 08:11 PM
no just register with that forum
300ex#996
03-22-2011, 09:39 AM
The ktm's are definitely the best quad I've ever ridden. Ive had mine since november of 09 and it still runs like a pearl. Changed the oil every 2 or 3 hours and have had nothing but clean oil come out of it. I would estimate the bike has between 35-45 hours on it and haven't even had to replace the rings. The power is essentially still the same as it was when i got it and I raced it for a whole season. As far as the shocks, they are a bit stiff, but a simple spring change will solve that. I race in NEATV and have not seen anybody with a ktm that has big problems with them. All in all, I would definitely reccommend buying the ktm because it has proven to be very reliable, even when you beat the crap out of it like me! :devil:
harry_ss
04-07-2011, 02:55 AM
Im sorry, but we cant all say the same thing.
I was like you before my engine started to sound strange.
Good luck.
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