The CVT world is under attack...WHY? Your thoughts...

[LT80]

I would imagine if the bike world wanted CVT's they would have CVT's. Doesn't seem like a major engineering feat to overcome. I guess the kids don't want CVT's, what do you think?

I don't think anyone ever asked a kid. It's all us parents fighting. The kids seem to be happy on anything.

[stevo7706]

I was thinking...we have talented mechanics installing every kind of engine into a quad, why not install a CVT into a dirtbike? It may be the biggest thing to hit the motocross scene since the monoshock. Picture a 2fast motocross bike among 40 shifter bikes at the starting gate. You may not finish the race and the bike would be the only one torn down between motos.......but getting that holeshot would be PRICELESS!

[Keith J]

The Ktm 50's are CVT.. They seem much more reliable than the quad cvt's..

More expensive, but more reliable..

[oscarmayer]

I will say that after talking to parents who own, have owned and race/raced CVTs here is my take on CVTs.
They are an ok starter platform. costs? They are just as expensive if not more than a shifter. when guys are required to spend $5-$6K on a engine just to be at a "national" competition level is crazy in my mind. you can get 2 shifter engines build to the hilt for that cost for the class you can run them, and they do not require rebuild every 2-4 competitions events. A stock cvt runs $2900+ for the starter 50cc bike, but trust me, that will NOT help much more past riding around a large field. to compete you'll spend another $2k minimum just to get going in a starter 50cc class and just to finish w/o breaking down. then the real costs start. I was told in their first year, not including cost of initial purchase and extras for competition, they spend another $3600 in parts and repairs on average for a first year rider with a new bike and just trying to stay running for the season. then you have the costs of competition, but I am leaving those out.

if you take a shifter like a raptor 125, that is $3400, change the shocks, exhaust, and tune the carb, and your at $3900-$4200 total start. that will be competitive in it's class to start and aside form changing the oil and plugs, will usually make it a season or two w/o too much trouble (baring crashes). So in the end, I have to admit being non-bias, I do not agree that CVTs are cheaper. They seem to cost nearly double a season at least in the starter low running class. if your rider is competitive and you demand the best, you can mortgage the home at that point (one guy claimed $85k for national racing in a year to stay in the top 3 spots for a full season). I know people who have upwards of $12k into a CVT. I know guys with a $8900 custom shifter than don't hardly spend another dime the whole season on anything except fluids, and basic wear and tear items. please understand, I respect CVT and think they have their place, but I personally do not agree with the statement of budget minded.

now here's some info I do not often disclose. We were sponsored by a Chinese ATV manufacturer. they made scooters and ATVs with the CVT engines, the same ran in the DDR and APEX bikes. They even had access to "performance parts" for them. Yes the same imported parts guys here spend hundreds on. Those parts cost a tiny fraction of what people pay for them. a clutch upgrade kit costs what? $250-$300? the factory sells them to a dealer for $50-$75 each kit. who's taking advantage? why is CVT so out of control? because people are not thinking and will spend the $. If everyone in CVT started saying I'm not paying that and started moving to shifters the CVT market would more than ever drop pricing to get you to come back. I do not agree with any place charging thousands on a motor.
Anyway, I am by no means trying to offend or start any sort of a debate. CVTs have their place, but I just want to make it clear, they are NOT cheaper.

[jake55]

$85K for top 3!!!!!!!!!
now that's funny right there. what's even funnier is that someone would believe that and go off and tell others.

[hensonfamfun]

Finished in top 3 on a cvt at nationals and did not spend anywhere close to that 85k is crazy. Must have had ten quads We have made the change to shifters and sold all our cvt stuff. Honestly not a ton of difference in cost to build engines. My experience is shifters have cost more. of course I bought mine from a Guy who is supposed to know what he is doing and he absolutely tore us a new one and have spent thousands to get it right. Oh and he is supposed to be reputable. Now back to the link. Cvt and shifters both have issues and in my opinion one is not better than the other. I can make these statements because we have done both. Biggest problem with people and having trouble with cvt is that they don't properly maintain them and it breaks when you don't. 3 years of cvt and had one race we didn't finish because of a bad torque spring. Btw we raced as hard and as much as anyone. We are going to stick with shifting but In my opinion there is not a ton of cost difference. My opinion.

[wickpan]

Ya all Cassy ask is it ready to race.She don't care cvt or shifter

[Keith J]

How much do you think the Mr. Ford spent on his CVT bikes and and all the travelling? I bet it is over $85k...

I don't think the guy was saying that you HAVE to spend $85K to run in the top three at nationals, just that you can..

[stevo7706]

Thanks for your insight Oscarmayer. Your observations align with our experience with CVTs. I'm sure many have spent near 6 figures for a SHORT rise to the top of this sport. Talent aside, the number of competitors makes it possible. Drop the cost of competing and the competition will increase. Until more kids are competing in quad racing, spending BIG money to compete against a small number of racers doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[edwardsp&b]

Thanks for your insight Oscarmayer. Your observations align with our experience with CVTs. I'm sure many have spent near 6 figures for a SHORT rise to the top of this sport. Talent aside, the number of competitors makes it possible. Drop the cost of competing and the competition will increase. Until more kids are competing in quad racing, spending BIG money to compete against a small number of racers doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

The high price on a CVT motor to build is because of all the extras you have to buy to make it work. You cant replace the cylinder, get port and polish work and case match work, without buying a PVL to make it work. Then, your running to many rpms to get it clutched right. So you have to go buy the overrange clutch system. Point is, to build a national caliber motor you have to put it all together at once. You cant piece a great running CVT motor together over time, or you will run yourself crazy.

Now, what if you have a kid that is one of the top national riders in his age group, but you have a great running stock cylinder motor.......I can tell you, after turn 1 he will be in the far back of the pack......Bottom line, racing costs money. Not being a dick, but this aint little league. You spoke of Mr Ford, what if your kid is just as fast as Mr Ford's, and you can afford to go out and buy the motor......Do you do it??? For most of us that's a yes!!!!!!

Also keep in mind, when Leo Decuzzi (last name not spelled right, but the guy that brought DRR's to the states) first brought them here they weren't thinking of racing, nor jumping 90 ft doubles.....These quads weren't designed to take the beating our kids are giving them....Yes they were designed a lot better than your kx 50s, or Honda 90's, but they still weren't designed to do what we are doing with them......Its going to tear up and its going to cost money....and lots of it.
A lot of these CVT guys developed these aftermarket parts on there own after seeing there own kids tear them up. Dad's coming up with designs like the slipper clutch, and slipper sprockets. It probably cost them a lot for just R&D, and getting them mass produced.....So should they charge a little more to cover their time....I would!

The last thing I want to mention is for you to go back and remember your high school economics class when they were discussing supply and demand. If I have 20 goats that I want to sell for 20 dollars a piece, but on the sale day, I have 100 people want to buy my goats, Im gonna raise the price.....Any business would!!! These guys are feeding and housing their families with the money they make off of these parts, what would you do?????

Oh and I believe that there has been more than 85k spent on just one race season.....Go ask Baird's daddy......He said one time that they had over 10,000 dollars worth of just titanium bolts for Lane's quads......at that rate 85k doesn't take long to get to!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bryan