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Thread: Shoot out coming soon! 450r carb vs. OEM carb

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Orange County, Ca.
    Posts
    3,069

    Shoot out coming soon! 450r carb vs. OEM carb

    I went to Pro Shop, in Stanton, Ca. yesterday afternoon and spoke with owner John Berg for over an hour.
    Fortunately for me, He was done working for the day, and was just hanging around the shop, waiting for a customers RAZR to get dropped off, so we had all the time in the world to just shoot the breeze.

    He seems like a straight honest guy.
    I got a very good impression from him, as being a quite knowledgeable and experienced.
    (and I also liked his personality too).

    My quad will be visiting him in the next few days, and I'm quite confident that good things will happen.
    I / We, are going to do something a little out of the usual with my dyno runs.

    We are going to be doing a couple of runs with the stock OEM carb, check and adjust for premium jetting/performance, to get it all dialed in to my aftermarket exhaust/intake/ etc.,...
    and running / recording all the graphs.

    Then I am going to swap out that carb, with a modified 450r carb, (a popular upgrade for many 400EX riders), and we are going to do some runs, jet, tune, etc,.. to get IT, all dialed in.

    At THAT point,
    We are going to compare all the parameters, graphs, and results.

    This is to determine,
    IF,... in fact ,...the 450r carb on a 400EX, is a WORTHWHILE modification, with Justifiable, MEASUREABLE, and Verifiable, Performance improvements,...

    OR,...

    If it is all just hype, or Insignificant gains,
    (or for that matter, ... overkill).

    Alot of guys have done this mod to their 400EX's, and most claim it to be the best thing since sliced bread.
    (and if it proves out to be that,... then GREAT!)

    BUT,...

    Of the few guys who have documented dyno runs,
    It seems that they have ONLY done their runs AFTER the installation of the 450r carb. (never before, and/or BOTH).

    I have not seen anybody show definative proof,
    (maybe it's there, and I just haven't seen it),

    With documented dyno runs,...
    That the 450r carb puts out any SIGNIFICANT gains, compared to a properly jetted and tuned OEM 400EX carb,
    (again,... with documented dyno runs)

    This will be a "Apples to Apples" comparison, of the two different carbs,
    on the same quad,
    on the same dyno,
    on the same day,
    with the same mods.

    As opposed to,
    a "Apples to Oranges" CLAIM,
    of one carb on one quad, ...
    and the other carb on a different quad,...
    with different mods, at different elevations,
    with different air temps, humidity levels, fuels, etc.

    Hopefully, this will be a, Proof is in the Pudding, "Shootout"...
    to either Verify or Dispell,...
    The notions, Reguarding how much of an improvement,
    the 450r carb gives to the performance envelope,
    of a modified 400EX.

    The only thing I can think of, that would make this even a better, and MORE fun test,...
    would be if I was to start off with my bone stock exhaust, intake, filter, airbox, and do a few runs with it in stock form, FIRST.

    But Alas,...
    I can only afford to buy enough dyno time,
    to do the straight Carb to Carb comparisons.
    (heck, I really cant AFFORD to do THAT).

    This should be fun,
    and I look forward to working with John.

    Any suggestions that you may have,
    to better this test ,
    are welcomed.
    if you smell something burning, Dont Panic,....(it's just me tryin' to think)

    '03 400EX, A.A.D.S. Test Platform
    '03 250EX, (Wife's bike),also showing the symptoms,
    '06 TRX90, (Daughters bike), it's got some goodies too.
    '04 Kymco Mongoose 90, bone stock except for 100 hp worth of stickers

    The Disease is called A.A.D.S. ---
    "Accessory Aquisition Disorder Syndrome",

    President and Supreme Poo-Baah of,
    The Coalition of A.A.D.S. Riders of America

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Ft Sill, OK
    Posts
    149
    to bad you dont have an edelbrock carb. I run the 440 eichner carb and would like to see the chart with it on the bike.
    2007 EX
    11:1 416 w/Stage 2 Hotcam
    Ported and polished head
    Edelbrock 440
    Sparks key
    X-Bars
    HMF/Powerbomb
    G-Force
    Herrmann +2
    6" extended swingarm

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    San Diego CA
    Posts
    300
    This is great! Cant wait to see the results!
    2000 400ex
    K&N,White Bros Slip on,filtered air box mod, DG Nerfs,FLY bars,Power madd hand guards,450r shocks, Sparks key, ASR +2 a-arms, ASV levers. That's all, for now!!

    San Diego CA, the only place one can ride year round! If your doc was not holding you back from a seizure...Ya it sucks.
    A.A.D.S. Sufferer

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,237
    Even if you make two identical runs on a dyno, your not always going to get the same result, too many variables, especially when talking about 1 or 2 HP.

    And I think the 450 carb is over hyped. From all the talk on here, I was expecting to notice a difference, I did, but not what I was expecting. And of my kinda of bike should benefit the most from this mod

    Maybe its just the way my carb is set-up and if I rode someone elses bike I would notice a positive difference. I spent a little time jetting it and getting it where I thought was the best gain
    2000 400ex 11:1 Wiseco,stage 2 Hotcam, WB R4 full exhaust,WB rev box, K&N/OW, 450r carb, no lid, +2 a-arms,Works shocks,GForce axle,chrome stem,fat bars,250r hood, brake blockoff, ASV clutch lever, race cut fender.

    2003 Cr250 White plastics, V Force 3 reed cage.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Orange County, Ca.
    Posts
    3,069
    Originally posted by dariusld
    Even if you make two identical runs on a dyno, your not always going to get the same result, too many variables, especially when talking about 1 or 2 HP.
    This test is Intended, to be a comparison of the SIGNIFICANT Differences,
    and / or, gains,
    between the 2 carbs.

    But if you have a suggestion,
    as to how to more equally and fairly do this test,
    and make the comparisons,

    Then I am all ears.

    Can you please expand some, on the variables mentioned, so that we may be able to reduce them to the best of our ability ?

    How would you suggest,
    That we can make this a more Controlled environment,
    and fairly equal test ?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,237
    Originally posted by tri5ron
    How would you suggest,
    That we can make this a more Controlled environment,
    and fairly equal test ?
    I don't know. I do know that when they do shoot-outs that they go out of their way to try to repeat conditions, which in my opinion is very hard.
    2000 400ex 11:1 Wiseco,stage 2 Hotcam, WB R4 full exhaust,WB rev box, K&N/OW, 450r carb, no lid, +2 a-arms,Works shocks,GForce axle,chrome stem,fat bars,250r hood, brake blockoff, ASV clutch lever, race cut fender.

    2003 Cr250 White plastics, V Force 3 reed cage.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    8,916
    i cant wait to see the results. too bad you cant do some others too like the sparks key, stator, or a cdi to see if there is a good difference in them too. steve
    2019 Maverick X3 XDS Turbo R
    2003 TRX 400EX
    2016 HONDA RANCHER

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,237
    Originally posted by honda400ex2003
    . too bad you cant do some others too like the sparks key, stator, or a cdi to see if there is a good difference in them too. steve
    I wanna see the choke removal or the ground down header welds
    2000 400ex 11:1 Wiseco,stage 2 Hotcam, WB R4 full exhaust,WB rev box, K&N/OW, 450r carb, no lid, +2 a-arms,Works shocks,GForce axle,chrome stem,fat bars,250r hood, brake blockoff, ASV clutch lever, race cut fender.

    2003 Cr250 White plastics, V Force 3 reed cage.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    WI
    Posts
    8,916
    those would be good too. steve
    2019 Maverick X3 XDS Turbo R
    2003 TRX 400EX
    2016 HONDA RANCHER

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Orange County, Ca.
    Posts
    3,069
    Originally posted by dariusld
    I wanna see the choke removal or the ground down header welds
    are we now going to get into a debate of Pink vs. Purple Powerbands ?

    come on guys,
    any Realistic suggestions or contributions, to make this a better test, are certainly welcomed.

    I'm the one who is going to be putting out the cash for this, and I have nothing to gain, other than my quad should be running at it's best peak performance.

    As well, ...it should also result in some good, indisputable, results, and graphs,...
    That may be,... and should be,... of benefit to others here.

    or would you prefer to just turn this thread, into some sort of Jaw Flapping, Unrelated, Non-Benificial, Yakfest, that so many other threads end up being?

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