buy the honda i have a 500 s foreman and it will rip a grizzly in half on a tug of war.my opinion is buy the s (shifter)i think automatics suk.if your looking for something that doesnt go 60mph but has torque out the arsh buy the honda but if you want something that will go 60mph and has nothing for low to mid than buy the grizz or etc.in my opinion i dont understand why anyone would want a utility quad that has nothing but top end and very little mid range.buy the foreman s.hope this helps.