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Thread: Steering and Handling Discussion.

  1. #131
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    NH
    Posts
    669
    The reason the turns seemed mackey is because you're fronts were so big. If you went with the 25's in the back and 21's in the front you would have been good. I was running 25x13x9's in the back and 21x7x10 in the front at 3 psi in the back and 15 psi in the front. I could go balls to the walls through the rocks. The tires were beastly thick and huge. I was goin through a rock bed where a river used to be in 4th on my 300ex. I didn't even gear it differently from my 22's i was running. I love experimenting with tires. I had fronts in the back for winter which were 21x7x10 and in the front was the same. It worked great. The tires hooked great. I ran from 18" to 25" on my 300 so i just never geared it. If i go back to quads i think i'm just gona make it street and get slicks. I like stuntin more than trails. Jumpin's good too but i like stuntin. Here's mine with the snow / rock setup...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    2005 TRX 250EX
    2003 CRF 450
    1991 RM 250
    1987 CR 125
    1986 650 SX

  2. #132
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Central NY
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    9,290
    Desert guys have been using 25" tires for years. A lot of DS650's run them with no issues. A taller tire has the advantage of taller groung clearance and will also roll over objects easier due to the larger diameter, but it will not handle nearly as well as a smaller MX tire or in your case even a smaller XC tire. There is simply nothing you can do to get a 25" tire to handle like a 21" tire. You can do some stuff to help, but it wont be the same. On top of this a larger tire will have more rolling resistance and it will also just be plain heavier, which in turn eats horsepower. There is a reason you dont see pro XC guys running these tires. Now on certain tracks I will agree it probably does give an advantage. Please do post back as you experiment more, this is interesting.
    M-Dub

    Quadless as of now
    05 KLX110 - some stuff
    01 ZR600 - bone stock
    1992 LT80 - pitquad I guess?

    So far the people that have SCREWED me on here:
    powerband
    and yamablaster24 more yamablaster24


    Remember every time you run wheel spacers or flipped rims... god kills a kitten

    "The best you have ridden is the best you know" Paul Thede- RaceTech

    Ignorance is NOT bliss -- it's embarrassing and counter-productive

    Experience is a tough teacher she gives the test first the lesson afterwards


    RIP 606

  3. #133
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    9,290
    Originally posted by John451
    The reason the turns seemed mackey is because you're fronts were so big. If you went with the 25's in the back and 21's in the front you would have been good. I was running 25x13x9's in the back and 21x7x10 in the front at 3 psi in the back and 15 psi in the front. I could go balls to the walls through the rocks. The tires were beastly thick and huge. I was goin through a rock bed where a river used to be in 4th on my 300ex. I didn't even gear it differently from my 22's i was running. I love experimenting with tires. I had fronts in the back for winter which were 21x7x10 and in the front was the same. It worked great. The tires hooked great. I ran from 18" to 25" on my 300 so i just never geared it. If i go back to quads i think i'm just gona make it street and get slicks. I like stuntin more than trails. Jumpin's good too but i like stuntin. Here's mine with the snow / rock setup...

    Having your front end raked down like that will result in poor handling and can actually be unsafe when landing a jump or going down a straight-away. The front end should always be slightly higher than the rear.
    M-Dub

    Quadless as of now
    05 KLX110 - some stuff
    01 ZR600 - bone stock
    1992 LT80 - pitquad I guess?

    So far the people that have SCREWED me on here:
    powerband
    and yamablaster24 more yamablaster24


    Remember every time you run wheel spacers or flipped rims... god kills a kitten

    "The best you have ridden is the best you know" Paul Thede- RaceTech

    Ignorance is NOT bliss -- it's embarrassing and counter-productive

    Experience is a tough teacher she gives the test first the lesson afterwards


    RIP 606

  4. #134
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    NH
    Posts
    669
    Yeah, mine was okay because it had a lift kit sorta thing in it that made the clearance higher so it was level. Still hauled *** with them and would pull nasty wheelies.
    2005 TRX 250EX
    2003 CRF 450
    1991 RM 250
    1987 CR 125
    1986 650 SX

  5. #135
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NW Louisiana
    Posts
    416
    Originally posted by 400exrider707
    Desert guys have been using 25" tires for years. A lot of DS650's run them with no issues. A taller tire has the advantage of taller groung clearance and will also roll over objects easier due to the larger diameter, but it will not handle nearly as well as a smaller MX tire or in your case even a smaller XC tire. There is simply nothing you can do to get a 25" tire to handle like a 21" tire. You can do some stuff to help, but it wont be the same. On top of this a larger tire will have more rolling resistance and it will also just be plain heavier, which in turn eats horsepower. There is a reason you dont see pro XC guys running these tires. Now on certain tracks I will agree it probably does give an advantage. Please do post back as you experiment more, this is interesting.

    I was a bit surprized at how hard it was to make these radial 25s slide around corners; wouldn't do it well at all. I don't know if it is the radial construction, or the tall profile, or both. I've never run radials before these. In hindsight, maybe the Kenda Klaw 25s would have been better for me to start with simply because they're not radials and wouldn't have given me feedback that I'm more familiar with. Oh well, no turning back now.

    I'm thinking that I'm gonna go ride a local MX track this weekend with these big tires. I know, it will scare the other riders and I'll get laughs, but I don't have much seat time with this setup and I want more practice. I need to figure out shocks better and got to do something to make my Gibson stabilizer work better with these tires. I may have to put another stick stabilizer on it and run them double.

    I am running stock a-arms and like them except the adjustability. I would like a bit less caster and, maybe with these tires, some more negative camber. From my experience, caster and camber sort of cancel out one another, within reason. Meaning that a more upright spindle, less negative caster, makes it turn easier, but get twitchy at speed. This can be offset to a degree with a little more negative camber, making the tires want to track straighter. And even a little more toe-in to make the quad resist turn-in. I like to play with front-end settings to see how they affect one another. My older race quad has the 12 point adjustable FullFlight a-arms, partially because the frame it tweaked and those a-arms expidited a return to racing for the old warrior. Anyway, it takes some practice and time to experiement, but can be rewarding.

    I'd like to hear your thoughts on the relative relationships between caster, camber and toe adjustments and how they affect straight-line performance, initial turn-in and turn stability.

    Chris
    '09 Polaris Outlaw 450 MXR XC Racer
    2010 35+B Class Champion

  6. #136
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ohio 43050
    Posts
    762
    Originally posted by trx250r180
    the epic arms are +3+1 and the laegers are +2+0 and im running custom axis 20 1/4 inch length shocks on both,i am also running 4+1 hyper rims both setups,was having frame scraping problems with 20 inch mx razr tires so i "bandaid fixed" with taller 21 inch tires to keep frame from scraping on bottom outs,now im able to run the 20 inch mx tires and no problem with frame scraping a lot,i will enclose photo of epics raised to full ext and with shock sag ,i only have a photo of laegers with the shock sag but extended length is similar to the epic pic,also spring preload with the epics i had to max the tightness of the spring with the top circlip ,with the lagers i was able to go 2 clips below having springs totally loose from moving up and down in adjuster clip
    This is what I am trying to figure out. Getting the ride height to sit lower in the front. I have a set of 450R shocks and a set of Elka triple rates with rezzies......I am getting the GT thunder rear link, and will be sitting durasticly lower in the rear, and I need to match the front. How do I adjust these shocks. I know nothing about suspension, and will not try and fool anyone about that. And I don't like to guess....somebody give me a hand here


    this was his first pic before "race sag" his second pic is back on page 2 just under this reply. How did he do this?
    2008 LT-R450 #97 ....ATV FourPlay stem w/ softbars,PC5 w/autotune, Uni filter, EHS air box lid, Pro Design intake, PRM control series front bumper, ATV FourPlay Aarms -1 1/16", Fox Podium X DSC, Fox Float Evols, Rath racing nerfs w/heel guards, One Industries graphics, HEP rear number plate, BRM number plates, Suzuki carbon fiber frame guards, ProDesign teather, CCP steering stabilizer, QuadTech beak, alum. elec. guard, Acerbis Uniko handguards, Fuel parking brake blockoff , Youshimura start button, throttle body block off nut, PRM frame skid, Suzuki .250" disc guard, GT Thunder dual sprocket guard, Guard Dog sprocket guard cleaner, milled LT-Z400 rear hubs, HiPer beadlocks w/ Razr 2s all around

    Certified Suzuki Technician

  7. #137
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    818
    Originally posted by leasureryan
    This is what I am trying to figure out. Getting the ride height to sit lower in the front. I have a set of 450R shocks and a set of Elka triple rates with rezzies......I am getting the GT thunder rear link, and will be sitting durasticly lower in the rear, and I need to match the front. How do I adjust these shocks. I know nothing about suspension, and will not try and fool anyone about that. And I don't like to guess....somebody give me a hand here


    this was his first pic before "race sag" his second pic is back on page 2 just under this reply. How did he do this?

    Heres my setup pretty much what your talking about - the frt sage is about even with the back with me sitting on the quad, but with the elkas ya got to run the spings loose to get the frt end to sage more... this will create more dive into the corners,





    2006 400EX
    2005 400EX - sold : (


    2006 450R:
    Yoshimura RS7 Full System, HRC cam/kit, 165 Main, Sparks air filter, Elka Triple rate, GT Thunder rear shock rebuild with XC GT link, Holeshot 20" rear 21" front, ITP Baja wheels, Moose front bumper, Tusk Nerfs, Pro Armor grab bar, Houser +2 A-arms, Lonestar +1 Anti-vibe Steering stem, CCP steering stabilizer, Pro Taper SE - high handlebars, MSR shorty clutch lever, Pro Taper grips, Yoshimura Graphics, Mod quad shifter, DG brake lever.

  8. #138
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Ohio 43050
    Posts
    762
    nice ride! Anything negitive about having them all the way loosened? Will they bottom out on big jumps?

    I need someone to explain all this shock adjustment stuff to me. It's the only thing I have no clue about
    2008 LT-R450 #97 ....ATV FourPlay stem w/ softbars,PC5 w/autotune, Uni filter, EHS air box lid, Pro Design intake, PRM control series front bumper, ATV FourPlay Aarms -1 1/16", Fox Podium X DSC, Fox Float Evols, Rath racing nerfs w/heel guards, One Industries graphics, HEP rear number plate, BRM number plates, Suzuki carbon fiber frame guards, ProDesign teather, CCP steering stabilizer, QuadTech beak, alum. elec. guard, Acerbis Uniko handguards, Fuel parking brake blockoff , Youshimura start button, throttle body block off nut, PRM frame skid, Suzuki .250" disc guard, GT Thunder dual sprocket guard, Guard Dog sprocket guard cleaner, milled LT-Z400 rear hubs, HiPer beadlocks w/ Razr 2s all around

    Certified Suzuki Technician

  9. #139
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    9,290
    Start from the beginning of this thread and read, the info is already there.

    You want your front end 1/8-1/4" higher than your rear WITH YOU SITTING ON THE QUAD.

    Adjusting your preload is what changes your ride height. If you cant get the proper ride height with the shocks adjusted all the way, you dont have the correct shocks on there, or they are not built correctly.
    M-Dub

    Quadless as of now
    05 KLX110 - some stuff
    01 ZR600 - bone stock
    1992 LT80 - pitquad I guess?

    So far the people that have SCREWED me on here:
    powerband
    and yamablaster24 more yamablaster24


    Remember every time you run wheel spacers or flipped rims... god kills a kitten

    "The best you have ridden is the best you know" Paul Thede- RaceTech

    Ignorance is NOT bliss -- it's embarrassing and counter-productive

    Experience is a tough teacher she gives the test first the lesson afterwards


    RIP 606

  10. #140
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    818
    Originally posted by leasureryan
    nice ride! Anything negitive about having them all the way loosened? Will they bottom out on big jumps?

    I need someone to explain all this shock adjustment stuff to me. It's the only thing I have no clue about
    running them loose will give ya some problems but it will lower it
    i fell that it dives into the corner and yep bottoms out a little on jumping - just got to mess with it

    heres a link that might help- check it out

    http://atv.off-road.com/atv/article/....jsp?id=192286

    http://www.atvrideronline.com/tech/1...ion/index.html

    had a better link but cant find it yet will keep looking,
    mike
    2006 400EX
    2005 400EX - sold : (


    2006 450R:
    Yoshimura RS7 Full System, HRC cam/kit, 165 Main, Sparks air filter, Elka Triple rate, GT Thunder rear shock rebuild with XC GT link, Holeshot 20" rear 21" front, ITP Baja wheels, Moose front bumper, Tusk Nerfs, Pro Armor grab bar, Houser +2 A-arms, Lonestar +1 Anti-vibe Steering stem, CCP steering stabilizer, Pro Taper SE - high handlebars, MSR shorty clutch lever, Pro Taper grips, Yoshimura Graphics, Mod quad shifter, DG brake lever.

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