Steering and Handling Discussion.

[number52]

Originally posted by bradley300
there is actually a purpose to multi rate springs so they are really a gimmick, just a different way of doing things.

now ZPS or SSD is a gimmick. all shocks sag, there isnt a SSD spring needed for that. SSD just makes it sit lower when no one is on it, but the reality is no one rides there quad while they arent on it, and when a person sits on equal shocks that arent SSD, they will sag jus the same

I was saying that when they call it a quad rate is the sales gimmick. just like charging more for Long Travel shocks. They should only be charging more for that extra spring. The springs do have a purpose as I already stated.

[LotusPosition]

"adjust the preload until the rider sag is 50% of the available travel. "


I have read some info on race sag where they say to use 30% of the travel. I realize that tuners have varied opinions on this. Is there an explanation of why there is such a difference?

Reason for asking, if you set your race sag at 50% of travel, and then at 30 %, there would be a huge difference is handling characteristics.

Not questioning anyone's advice, just trying to understand why.

[bradley300]

Originally posted by LotusPosition
"adjust the preload until the rider sag is 50% of the available travel. "


I have read some info on race sag where they say to use 30% of the travel. I realize that tuners have varied opinions on this. Is there an explanation of why there is such a difference?

Reason for asking, if you set your race sag at 50% of travel, and then at 30 %, there would be a huge difference is handling characteristics.

Not questioning anyone's advice, just trying to understand why.

i asked Laz at GT Thunder about this a while back and he said 30% is a good percentage for a bike, but a quad does alot better with 50%. As for the why i couldnt tell you, Laz's shock set up are pretty darn good, so i beleive him

[LotusPosition]

Ok, thanks for the info. I have been dealing with some race sag issues with my GT Thunder rear, and was unable to get those facts from Laz.

[John451]

Hey, just joining in. Great forum. I've learned alot from it! I really wish i read this a few months ago because.... Sorry, I have a diamond j customs kit. haha. It's the +6" 6 total that is. I have the setup with the 400ex shocks. I thought it was so great when i got it and for 2 months because i got it in winter. Then i actually used it. Big dissappointment. The shocks can bottom out from jumping on the front bumper. Sometimes for some reason when i turn for more than 90 degrees the shock bottoms out and i cant turn out of the turn unles i stop. It's actually more likely to flip now than without it. I only flipped it once doing 40 on the lake and hit a fishing hole. lol. But it looks ok. Just cut the fenders to the kit today. I might ditch the kit because i dont really like it. I will attach a picture of it before i cut the fenders from the day i put it in. I have some with wheels, without, of kit, of setup, alot of them. In the picture i have the +6 kit with 1+4 wheels on. Not a typo. they're way out. But, yes, I agree with you. The kit's not good. I'm going to take it out for the determining ride tomorow. Idk what i was thinkig with it though, i just wanted a monster wheeler. I was the bicycle king before. Idk why i though i would not miss doing them. very depressed without them. lol. I could do them for miles and have... held one for 23 minutes once! Miss those days...

[John451]

i see what you were talking about now with the wheel angle. my tops are out. Might move them to the 4.5" holes on the top sometime to look for a difference. Again, great forum. Learnin soooo much!

[number52]

Originally posted by LotusPosition
"adjust the preload until the rider sag is 50% of the available travel. "


I have read some info on race sag where they say to use 30% of the travel. I realize that tuners have varied opinions on this. Is there an explanation of why there is such a difference?

Reason for asking, if you set your race sag at 50% of travel, and then at 30 %, there would be a huge difference is handling characteristics.

Not questioning anyone's advice, just trying to understand why.

Yes, this will change the way your bike handles because it will change the springs preload, but what makes the most difference when changing preload that most people don't think about is Crossover Height! This will drastically effect the way your bike handles. All of the way through the travel.

[John451]

Yeah, the kit's really wierd. I think I'll sell it when i get the chance. You cannot take a turn in high speeds. I found it unstable for turning at 30 mph. On pavement though. Whenever the shocks compressed the wheels steer out. Don't particularly like it. Also when turning around it's very unpredictable. Cant tell when its gona compress 5" or when the rear wheels gona lift.

[400exrider707]

Originally posted by John451
Whenever the shocks compressed the wheels steer out. Don't particularly like it.

This is the action of bumpsteer, which is much more drastic than stock with this kit, as you can now see.

Originally posted by John451
Yeah, the kit's really wierd. I think I'll sell it when i get the chance. You cannot take a turn in high speeds. I found it unstable for turning at 30 mph. On pavement though. Also when turning around it's very unpredictable. Cant tell when its gona compress 5" or when the rear wheels gona lift.

Sounds like it would be safer to take it off now, and then sell it when you have the chance. Thanks for your input here.

[ccdhowell]

Nice thread. I'm always looking to learn more on quad suspension set-up, especially for XC racing. I like to experiment a bit; my latest is pertenant to topics discussed in this thread. I have an '07 Raptor 700 XC racer. I've often wondered how it would perform with large diameter wheels and tires on it. I ordered a set of Douglas 12" .190 wheels front and rear, 12x7 4 + 3 for the front and 12x8 3 +5 rears. Tires are Maxxis 4Speed 25x8r12 fronts and 25x10r12 rears. I raced them only once so far, three weeks ago. The race course was quite rocky and the tall rubber provided a definate advantage; I had point-n-shoot capability over most boulder fields. I turned my Gibson stick stabilizer up all the way and the tires still beat my arms up pretty bad. I dialed in a bit more compression, but in hind-sight could have used a bit more, the tires were all over the place. If I decide to run these all the time, I'll need a shock revalve, just playing around for now. I didn't touch the rebound valve or the ride height; I wanted a taller quad, some of the rocks were large and I wanted to skim the tops without leaving pieces of my swingarm on the ground. This race course didn't have allot of slow/mid-speed turns or the tires wouldn't have been an advantage. What I mean to say is these big babies push like a Mack truck in the corners. I uped the pressure on the fronts to 9psi for the race and it was better, but I really need to experiment more with this setup. I am sort of a kamakazi racer, not that I hit allot of trees or wreck allot, but finesse isn't my skill; point-n-shoot works for me and these big wheels and tires seem to work well so far...much more work to do before a verdict is in.

I wanted to post this reply because as far as I've seen or read I'm running and racing the biggest tires on a sport quad and I'll provide more impressions or feedback as asked.

Pic is from last race just to give ya'll an idea of the "hugeness" of these tires on this quad.

Chris