Results 1 to 5 of 5

Thread: How to pick a 400EX cam (a specification comparison)

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,021

    How to pick a 400EX cam (a specification comparison)

    [I got tired of looking up this thread over and over so I'm putting it here so it will stay put. The original thread is HERE].

    --Some retailers list a Hotcams Stage 3. This is an sometimes an erroneous label given to the "old" version of the Stage 2. Some retailers have stock on both the "old" and "new" versions and have to call the "old" version something, I guess. Other times the "stage 3" label is given to the stroker cam. So just be careful concerning the the "stg 3" label cause it could mean different things.
    --This is what Hotcams told me about the performance difference between the "old" and "new" versions: "...As far as the difference between the old stage 2, and the new stage 2, the new stage two still has a good top end gain, but doesn't loose as much on the bottom..."



    The lift is how far the cam opens the valve. The duration is how long it leaves it open. The more lift and duration the more aggressive the cam. Big lift and duration numbers work best at high RPM while more mild numbers are best for lower RPM.

    The more duration the intake valves have the more important it is to have a high(er) compression piston. This is because with lots of duration there is more opportunity for air to escape through the valves as the piston begins its compression stroke. Even on the stock cam, the intake valves are still open when the piston begins its compression stroke. With an aggressive cam some dynamic compression is lost through valves that stay open for a long time. This must be made up for with a higher compression piston. An aggressive cam with a stock compression piston may actually perform worse than the stock cam because too much compression is being lost through the valves being opened so much. I have personally seen this happen--dyno confirmed (although it wasn't a 400EX).

    Here's a theoretical example to help in understanding this concept:

    -bore: 85mm (stock)
    -static compression ratio: 9.1:1 (stock)
    -elevation: 1500ft
    -intake valve closes: 40deg ABDC (After Bottom Dead Center) (stock at 1mm lift)

    The resulting dynamic compression ratio is 8:1. Note that is a smaller figure than the static compression ratio we started with. Again, this is because the actual compression of the compression stroke doesn't really start until the intake valves close.

    Now, if we increase the intake valve duration to 55deg ABDC and leave the static compression ratio at 9.1:1, we get a new dynamic compression ratio of 7.4:1! In order to get the dynamic compression ratio back to where we started (8:1) with the increased intake valve duration we would need a piston with almost 10:1 static compression. Just for the heck of it I looked at how 5500 ft of elevation changes things. At 5500ft with the 55deg ABDC spec you'd need a 10.8:1 static compression piston to yeild an 8:1 dynamic compression ratio.

    Now, you might be thinking what's the point of adding a cam and a piston if doing both gets you the same dynamic compression ratio you started with?? Good question. The answer is that now you have the same dyanmic compression ratio you started with but also have the cam specs that will allow the engine to breath better. And in the real world, most piston choices are actually going to bump your dynamic compression beyond what it was stock even with the addition of a cam. A 10.5:1 piston with a cam (using the 55deg ABDC spec) would get you a dynamic compression ratio of 8.6:1--0.6 points higher than all stock.

    I used a dynamic compression ratio calculator to get those figures. I guessed on certain required values because there's some information I don't have. So, the above numbers are not quantitatively exact. But the relationship between static compression, dynamic compression, and intake valve timing IS accurate.



    Knowledge is HorsePower!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    The Beaver State
    Posts
    10,439
    Thanks for consolidating this info GPracer

    Can you elaborate a bit on Duration and Lift and how they affect performance? i.e. How a relativly higher lift/shorter duration cam performes differently than a lower lift/longer duration cam.

    I'm not sure if this applies to the 400ex and similar motors though....
    ATVRiders Janitorial Technician


    !!!!!DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!!!!!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    4,021
    Originally posted by JOEX
    Thanks for consolidating this info GPracer

    Can you elaborate a bit on Duration and Lift and how they affect performance? i.e. How a relativly higher lift/shorter duration cam performes differently than a lower lift/longer duration cam.

    I'm not sure if this applies to the 400ex and similar motors though....
    Increasing lift without increasing duration will normally yield more power throughout the RPM range. However, an increase in lift is almost always accompanied by an increase in duration.

    Lift and duration generally go up and down together because of practical limits governing the shape of the lobes. If you tried to have super high lift with moderate duration than the lobes would become prohibitively "pointy"--very tall but narrow. The ramps of the lobe (ramps are the transition zones on the sides of the lobe) can only be so steep for reliable valvetrain operation.

    Specific to intake valves, there is a limit to the speed of the intake charge before volumetric effiecency begins to drop off (that speed is 0.6 mach). That natural "speed limit" for the intake charge helps do define the lower limit of possible lift specs. for any given duration. Long duration with moderate lift would leave you with very high intake charge speeds. Go too fast and you start going backwards. That doesn't apply to the exhaust gases exiting the exhaust valves though.

    I hope that at least partially answers your question. I'm gonna stop there because I'm starting to get in over my head--I'm no expert on these matters.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    387
    you should sticky this. so many people ask about this.
    2005 Honda 416ex 11:1 Fan Cooled
    -HMF Full Exhaust
    -HotCams Stage 2
    -HD Cam Chain
    -Nerf Bars
    -ITP Holeshot's all around
    -K&N Air Filter
    -AC Racing Front Bumber
    -Renthal Sprockets and Chain

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    387
    Messed up
    2005 Honda 416ex 11:1 Fan Cooled
    -HMF Full Exhaust
    -HotCams Stage 2
    -HD Cam Chain
    -Nerf Bars
    -ITP Holeshot's all around
    -K&N Air Filter
    -AC Racing Front Bumber
    -Renthal Sprockets and Chain

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •