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Thread: Was race gas to blame?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
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    Hudson Wi
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    1,578
    I mixed VP RED with 92 octane and never have a problem with starting.
    Shawn Hohneke #77
    06 450R
    06450ER

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  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Bedford, Indiana
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    253
    I use 113 klotz in mine and I don't have a problem. Maybe you got ahold of some bad gas.
    Ride Red
    2004 TRX450R #240
    2003 400EX
    2002 CRF450R #946

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Manistique, Mi.
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    395
    This is just what ive heard, ive read a post on it before. If i can find it ill write down the link. I also remember the guy stating that you should always tune your engine to the fuel your running.

    Hearing that he had a slight bog and problems starting seems like a rich condition to me.

    Ive used methanol on my DS i used to have and call tell you my tank would be empty twice as fast as normal gas. I cant tell you why it would be opposite for race gas, maybe someone can, maybe it has something to do with timing, not sure.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    looking for places to ride in NJ!
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    First off if your plug was real wet and was taking many many kicks to get your bike going, it sounds like you were running RICH. Running higher octane in a motor that is only designed for pump gas will not give the motor more power, it will do the opposite actually!!! It may feel like its running cleaner but in reality you make your most power right before detonation, and you not going to be close to detonation if you are running a much higher octane fuel than you need. All signs show that you are running too rich, hence the difficulty starting. I ran VP ultimate 4 (93 octane) and actually my bike fired up faster than it usually does running the sunuco pump supreme 94octane. I would drain your tank and replace your gas with super and see if it fixes your problem. It is unusuall that this occured, it is quite possible the gas was bad and this is causing a problem. What jetting are you running? And did you try replacing your plug?
    Joe

    thomez
    Funny thing happened when I went riding a few weeks ago, my buddy had a C-dale and his battery went bad!!!! We almost had to turn around and go home 2 hours because of a freakin battery!!! Lucky for us he happened to have a second batery!!!When you have kickstart....there is never an issue
    1986 250R (Macdizzy 350 PV)
    2004 TRX 450R
    GT Thunder 490 kit w/ 13:1 JE
    HMF Exhaust
    FCR40mm Carb
    HRC Cam
    GT Thunder Rear Linkage

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    New Orleans, Ohio
    Posts
    387
    Originally posted by joe1l

    thomez
    Funny thing happened when I went riding a few weeks ago, my buddy had a C-dale and his battery went bad!!!! We almost had to turn around and go home 2 hours because of a freakin battery!!! Lucky for us he happened to have a second batery!!!When you have kickstart....there is never an issue
    Batteries are maintenence items

    You can always pushstart
    2003 Cannondale Blaze

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Massachusetts - The anti-ATV state!
    Posts
    301
    Originally posted by joe1l
    First off if your plug was real wet and was taking many many kicks to get your bike going, it sounds like you were running RICH. Running higher octane in a motor that is only designed for pump gas will not give the motor more power, it will do the opposite actually!!! It may feel like its running cleaner but in reality you make your most power right before detonation, and you not going to be close to detonation if you are running a much higher octane fuel than you need. All signs show that you are running too rich, hence the difficulty starting. I ran VP ultimate 4 (93 octane) and actually my bike fired up faster than it usually does running the sunuco pump supreme 94octane. I would drain your tank and replace your gas with super and see if it fixes your problem. It is unusuall that this occured, it is quite possible the gas was bad and this is causing a problem. What jetting are you running? And did you try replacing your plug?
    Joe

    Thanks Joe-
    Your words confirm my thoughts on this. I topped off the tank with 93octane, so the 100 octane is all but diluted out now. I dried the plug and combustion chamber, and cleaned the plug off, and now it starts 1st or 2nd kick as it always did...and like i said, the exhaust doesnt reek of the race gas smell anymore. i am running HRC kit needle and jet (185).
    2004 TRX450R - HRC, AC F.Bumper, db Eliminator 2+2, G-Force F/W Spacers.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    looking for places to ride in NJ!
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    Good to see your bike is running good again. If you want to run race fuel, try the Ultimate 4 by VP that I mentioned

    Batteries are maintenence items
    Yeah KICKSTARTERS are not!!!

    At first I couldn't understand why people complained about the kickstart, but then I let my girlfriend try my bike out, and she complained that she liked electric start better.....and then it all made sense!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1986 250R (Macdizzy 350 PV)
    2004 TRX 450R
    GT Thunder 490 kit w/ 13:1 JE
    HMF Exhaust
    FCR40mm Carb
    HRC Cam
    GT Thunder Rear Linkage

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    1,858
    Actually, Thomez - on a Cannondale you can not push start if your batter is dead - been there, tried that.

    If your battery is low -- yes -- dead, no.

    Bottom line is the kick is maintenance free and is more reliable if the machine is in tune. If the machine is not in tune, it may or may not start even with an e-starter --- if it's a C-dale, it will foul the plug and you have to disassemble half the quad to get it out, then hope you have an extra or a bead blaster because you won't be finding that plug at the local parts store.

    Is the only reason you hang out here is to gloat if someone mentions a starting issue? Must be a pretty lame way to live....

    Personally, if the 450R had an option of an e-start or kick start, I'd still have the kick start quad.

    Heck, if my life depended on my quad starting, I certainly would rather be on a 450R than a Cannondale - with the CD, it was always a crap shoot if the quad sat for more than a day (and sometimes even if you'd just killed it for a few minutes) --- not to mention the fact that if you were running the headlights and low enough speeds to run the cooling fan you might have a little surprise the next time you shut it off and tried to start it... (I could go on and on with the issues, but that's a whole 'nother thread...)

    Bottom line: Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones --- get it?


    Anyhow.... Now that that rant is over.

    Higher octane has nothing to do with jetting. It doesn't necessarily require more rich or more lean jetting - the important thing is specific gravity, this dictates jetting.

    Higher specific gravity means the fuel is more dense and requires leaner jetting.

    Methanol has a lower specific gravity which is why you must literally double your jet size to get it right.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    wherever you go, there you are
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    527
    Joe, thats the best post I have read yet.
    MIA, I am thinking, after reading about this, and doing a little research, I think you got bad gas....
    Thomez, whats the matter? All the cannondaleriders.com boys sold their stuff, so you have to come over here and interject your moronic posts, trying desperatly to make yourself feel better that you have a out of production, plumbers nightmare, a WAY too heavy for aluminum framed, UGLY, failed business venture, Koreandinlidale?

    I am kidding, of course. But, still dont come at me with Cannondale this or that, I had one, a moto, I sold as soon as I could.
    TRX500R
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    Venom Powersports
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  10. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Bedford, Indiana
    Posts
    253
    At the last two GNCC races, I have had some friends that couldn't finish the race because of a dead battery. I won't get into what kind of quad they had to keep the ******ing down. I have finished all of the races I started with my 450r, no matter how many times I killed it.

    Thinking about getting some T shirts made that says "Real men kick it". Ha Ha Ha Ha
    lmao
    Ride Red
    2004 TRX450R #240
    2003 400EX
    2002 CRF450R #946

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