Oh, dont get me wrong, I am prolly one of the most unbiased riders out there as far as brand loyalty goes, just read my list of previous atv's. I love the z400's feel, while not as responsive or racerish feeling as the yfz, Its got a great starting point for just about anything, the yfz is no where near as comfy as the z400, and nor do i think the 400ex is as great as everyone makes it out to be. I have liked something about every quad I have ever ridden. And have always disliked more things than I liked. Just my nature. However the yfz is the closest thing to what I want in a quad that has ever come about. One of the things is electric start. The advantage to having a kicker is generally weight, But if the quad weights the same with the electric as one does with kicker, now which one can ultimately be made lighter (the one witht he electric) so i.e the yfz-350lbs, the trx450r-350lbs. remove the starter on the the yfz and your under that mark. The gytr kick is expensive, but you wont pay list if you find the right place. and if you piece parts from the dirtbike it will cost even less than that. However finding electric start for the trx is going to be impossible at least for a while. Something the vast majority of racers (xc) consider an advantage. The Honda is a very nice machine from what I can tell. But relying on old honda reliability isnt gonna sell quads in its own right anymore, this is 2003 soon to be 2004, not 1994 when your only racing option was a 250r. Times have changed, and all this narrow minded mentality needs to go. Both Honda riders and Yamaha riders, as well as Suzuki and Kawasaki rider should realize this is the dawn of great things in the sport. I cant wait to see what suzuki comes out with, or whatever atk or whoever does with the c-dale. Variety is the spice of life, all of our lives are now filled with much more variety I think. I absolutely cannot wait till spring of 04' hittin' the tracks with so much more competition, and the overall cost to be on a grade A machine has now came down to the 8,000 dollar range, vs. just a few years ago 20,000 was common. So if we could please just hold all the "mine is better than yours" comments to ourselves. I didnt come here to bash the 450r, its senseless. All we can hope for now is dirtbike style playing fields with much more even high technology competition. Both machines have their + and -. The bottom line? well here it is.. Think of what YOU are going to be doing on your atv.. does pure performance mean everything to you? if so then your 2 options are the Honda and the Yamaha, then just pick what you want red or blue, kick, or electric, if your a diehard fan of the red or the blue then no time is better than now to saddle up. However if your just in the market for something fast, fun and handles well, be sure to throw in the suzuki,kawi,arctic cat. It can be competitive with a little money invested, and starts out around 1,000 less. plus it comes in yellow, white, green, orange, and now arctic cats odd looking varient. Often times I think we forget what it is to truely be alive and able to ride. Instead it turns into a war of words, against each other. When in the end we are just one big army, fighting for our right to ride, and enjoy what we all love to do. So rather or not your on a new machine or old faithful. Sit back and enjoy this coming year and those to come. Because things are sure to be exciting.