The CVT world is under attack...WHY? Your thoughts...

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Originally Posted by stevo7706

I share the same sentiments as others here, but let me ask. Since millions of kids ride/race dirtbikes without a CVT, would you think a CVT is the "best platform" or "answer" if ALL classes shifted? Would your race experience as a parent or rider be different if CVTs were not even allowed in quad racing?

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My point is, the "average" family cannot afford to get started in atv racing when/IF a new race quad is $15,000 dollars. There has to be an Entry Level machine to begin with....
The differance between bikes and quads is that you can buy a new dirtbike for under $4,000 that is race ready and a new race ready 90Mod is $20,000. When a new racer shows up at a National event and sees all the Renegades and 40' motorhomes with 30' trailers filled with brand new atv's for ONE little rider... thats pretty discouraging.
I truly believe that OUR Pro's on the track are NOT neccessarily the BEST riders in the world, they are the ones who were able to afford and sustain the costs of this sport. There are many many great riders that could not afford it and had to go to a real job to raise thier families...SAD.
ALL racing is about money but this YOUTH atv racing is on the extreme side. It's sad that I can buy a full on race 450 for alot less than I can a YOUTH race atv.
Bottom line...until the big atv companies build a Youth full race machine...Parent's will be stuck with the over priced mods. I wish there was a larger market for the machines so that someone would take the plans and have a machines mass produced and then the costs would come WAY down.

I can't disagree with your last statement about not having a worthy base machine to start from. Matter of fact I can't disagree with anything in your whole statement there. It is completely ridiculous the amount of money these little machines cost.
However, I think you are missing a few things. No where does it say in the rules that you have to run a new quad(I know you realize this, just hear me out). I can find at least 3 90 mods on the first page on the classifieds here that with a little work, a minimal investment and the right rider, can be competitive at the nationals. All of them were under $8k. How much did you sell the mod bikes you built for? Were they competitive? A fully built top national level CVT 90 can reach $15k as well. If you want to race bad enough, you can find a deal or make something work. Also, there is no way you can go buy a stock motorcycle and win a stock class. There is stock, and there is "stock". Those quotation marks are significantly expensive.

I know of first hand a kid that was an absolute top tier cvt national rider that got beat at our local level by a local kid on a machine worth less than half of what the national kid was riding in the 14-17 yr old schoolboy class. The local kid had been shifting for a couple years and the national kid had not. The difference on the track was obvious just by listening to their bikes.
I agree with what was said about if you don't plan on moving the kids up into the shifter bikes and continue racing, then let them stay on a cvt until they can't ride them anymore. If your kid plans on racing until adulthood, the earlier you start them shifting the better. This is all just my opinion.

Also, one last thing. In our sport, any kid can show up at the big stage and race. I know, we did last year. We had no business in that field of riders. You can't do that in motorcycles. You have to be the "cream of the crop". You have to have the total package to win nationals, quad and rider. That is why it is nationals.


Personally I despise these CVT's. They do have their place though. There would be far fewer riders racing today without them.

I guess one of the issues is, the father that takes his child to the local motorcycle shop there is not a shiny new JB Mod or Robert's Mod sitting in the show room - THANK GOODNESS cause no one would race due to sticker shock! - There are the Polaris mini's, Yamaha's, Honda's, Kymco's, DRR's...ect. So, dad buys one of those and the "Ball" starts rolling.
I was forced to build my CanAm Mods due to financial reasons...I was able to piece it together as money allowed. I'd done anything to be able to drop the funds on a JB or Robert's... Logan would have done much better on the smaller machine but I just could not afford to buy him one. He still could race a mod this year but I got a deal on a 450 that I could not refuse so I'm moving him up. He has gained 25 pounds since last year and I know he'd been real hard to beat but that how it goes. I sold both CanAm's and used that money to buy 450's... NOW, BIG DADDY can race! Look out 30+C! LOL.

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Originally Posted by Logan #34's Dad

I guess one of the issues is, the father that takes his child to the local motorcycle shop there is not a shiny new JB Mod or Robert's Mod sitting in the show room - THANK GOODNESS cause no one would race due to sticker shock! - There are the Polaris mini's, Yamaha's, Honda's, Kymco's, DRR's...ect. So, dad buys one of those and the "Ball" starts rolling.
I was forced to build my CanAm Mods due to financial reasons...I was able to piece it together as money allowed. I'd done anything to be able to drop the funds on a JB or Robert's... Logan would have done much better on the smaller machine but I just could not afford to buy him one. He still could race a mod this year but I got a deal on a 450 that I could not refuse so I'm moving him up. He has gained 25 pounds since last year and I know he'd been real hard to beat but that how it goes. I sold both CanAm's and used that money to buy 450's... NOW, BIG DADDY can race! Look out 30+C! LOL.

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That is the problem for everyone, and it is going to get worse. Many of these companies if they have not already will soon stop producing quads for riders under the age of 16. This comes from our awesome government who believes they know what is better for us than we do. Quads have not been given a fair chance in my opinion. But that is another thread for another day.

I did not mean to offend anyone but honestly, there are more ways to skin a cat. I don't understand why more people do not try to find blaster frames or something comparable. No one said it had to be a jb/walsh mod frame. What was the frame you used? Was it not a ds450 frame? Did it cost you 15,000? I don't care to be told what I can and can't do either but at some point we all have to adapt. Keeping a kid on a cvt regardless if there is 5-10 kids who have made the transition to big bike easy, the majority have not. I don't know what the answer is but many people only see what they believe is best for them personally and not what is best for the whole group. I honestly did not think it was a bad thing but I don't have a kid on one and spent thousands of dollars trying to keep one together. Good luck to everyone and hope that our sport can turn around before it is too late.

I guess it does come down to what experience you want out of youth motorsports. Simple or complex. Less expensive or expensive. Fun or not so fun. Engaging both sides of the brain or one. And more. There is a reason why CVTs are not part of motocross racing and (almost) ALL of motorsports (I can only think of two others, scootering and snowmobiles). The future of this sport is dependent on what parents expect out of racing. Judging from what I read,hear and see, CVTs are a cancer in our sport.

"a cancer".... I completely disagree.
Most racers (younger generation) began on a CVT and without CVT's this sport would have been dead along time ago. Racers around Joel Hetrick's age and younger more than likely started on a CVT either locally or at Nationals. And the same system they came through is still in effect.
Dad's go to the local dealership and see a mini quad... usually a Honda, Polaris, Yamaha and some times a DRR or Apex...buy it for little Johnny...little Johnny starts going fast in the back yard, dad builds a ramp... Dad then takes lil Johnny to the local county fair race...then the ATV racing bug hits DAD and sometimes the kid...now they head to the local race series to give it a shot. Once there they see all the hopped up Drr's and Apex's and start pouring money into the machine he bought. Dad meets some of the best people in the world with the same sickness as him. Before he knows it..he has a ton of money into the machine...lil Johnny is winning locally so they choose to try a National on their hopped up CVT. Lil Logan - I mean Johnny! - does well at that National and now they join the National Circus. Run the CVT until it become clear that, now not so lil, Johnny needs to upgrade to a better machine. Then Dad has to try to justify to Momma why he needs to spend SO much money on an ATV for a sport with no future...avoids the divorce... and puts Johnny on a mod for a couple years and then Johnny is old enough for a full size atv and jump on a 450... then the ATV carousel is FINALLY over... GO HONDA TRX450r!
THEN looks back on it all and WISH lil Logan - I mean Johnny! - liked his PW50 more than that DRR!

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Originally Posted by Logan #34's Dad

My point is, the "average" family cannot afford to get started in atv racing when/IF a new race quad is $15,000 dollars. There has to be an Entry Level machine to begin with....
The differance between bikes and quads is that you can buy a new dirtbike for under $4,000 that is race ready and a new race ready 90Mod is $20,000. When a new racer shows up at a National event and sees all the Renegades and 40' motorhomes with 30' trailers filled with brand new atv's for ONE little rider... thats pretty discouraging.
I truly believe that OUR Pro's on the track are NOT neccessarily the BEST riders in the world, they are the ones who were able to afford and sustain the costs of this sport. There are many many great riders that could not afford it and had to go to a real job to raise thier families...SAD.
ALL racing is about money but this YOUTH atv racing is on the extreme side. It's sad that I can buy a full on race 450 for alot less than I can a YOUTH race atv.
Bottom line...until the big atv companies build a Youth full race machine...Parent's will be stuck with the over priced mods. I wish there was a larger market for the machines so that someone would take the plans and have a machines mass produced and then the costs would come WAY down.

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I agree with the Rock. Dumping the training wheels this season, I should get to relax in between motos now.:)

we have enjoyed CVT's. If we started over and did it all again I would do t exactly the same way.

"Judging from what I read,hear and see, CVTs are a cancer in our sport." I'm with Rocky I disagree. I think the cancer of the sport are the ones who think their ideas and opinions should be the rule of law in the sport. To be honest if someone doesn't like CVT's then they can choose not to ride them. Worse than anything is when they don't even have one (have never owned one) but they offer opinions about CVT's all together. It's like bike trolls coming on an ATV forum and telling everyone why they hate quads and how they should be banned.

Its a small sport with low numbers and I fail to see the benefit of criticism from individuals that have never even rode in the class they are crying about.

There's no malice in my opinion(s) here on this forum. We all have our opinions on whatever subject and this forum is a way to exchange our thoughts and ideas about this sport. Baseless assumptions, prejudice and name calling deflect from exploring different ideas and points of view. If you strongly disagree with my OPINION that CVTs are cancer, then offer your intelligent reasons why you think otherwise. Maybe I can learn something.

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Originally Posted by stevo7706

There's no malice in my opinion(s) here on this forum. We all have our opinions on whatever subject and this forum is a way to exchange our thoughts and ideas about this sport. Baseless assumptions, prejudice and name calling deflect from exploring different ideas and points of view. If you strongly disagree with my OPINION that CVTs are cancer, then offer your intelligent reasons why you think otherwise. Maybe I can learn something.

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Well I guess if you think a CVT is cancer then not really anything or anybody is going to say anything that will change your mind because that's a pretty strong statement. So I guess you mean that those of us that have CVT are a problem because that's what it sounds like to me. We just made the jump to shifting by choice by the way. Cvt's were a huge platform for us and allowed us to learn to ride. I would not have changed a thing.