Nitrous

[BIGRED400]

Anyone running it?? Big difference?? Any piston problems??Looking at Boondocker system...thanks for reply's
BIGRED400
11:1 JE 416 w/
http://swaintech.com/4whl.html
HotCams stage 2
170 Main
42 Pilot
Uni filter
E-Series w/18 Disc
60/40.....110/93
Amsoil Synthetic
:D

[nakomis0]

To try an explain the power nitrous will give you its like this.. if your drag racing and someone is right next to you at the same speed, when you hit the button you gonna jump about 3 quad lenghts ahead of him.

The problem isn't with the piston, its more with the Rod and Crank. High Comperssion and nitrous don't go together.

With a high performance rod and crank, I would say you could hit a 15hp shot of nitrous fairly often. You start jumping up to 20-30hp shots and your gonna blow that thing within less than a yr.

I've had experiance with a Z400 on nitrous.

[pnut420]

Unless you put some money into, nitrous is ok on a stock bore motor, compression, etc...

A 416 with 11:1 is pushing the stock rod strength as it is, as soon as you hit a 10 hp shot, that rod is going to go boom!

They only way to go is like 10:1 with a HD rod to be safe.

[BIGRED400]

I was thinking of a new rod for sure...thanks

[Mr.EX2U]

I run a 20hp shot and when i drag it im spraying the whole time set it up to spray when the throttle is pinned and i run an 11:1 comp with stock crank for well over a year now and so far no problems (knock on wood). if you take care of the motor you wont have problems but neglect it and to bad for you..

Chris

[tinner]

I don't think I'd be able to sleep at night if I had nitrous in my 400. I would worry about a stock bottom end blowing too, even a modded one. One question, I know in a car you need an electric fuel pump to keep the pressure right. Do you need the electric pump on the quad ? I would think so....right??

[Mr.EX2U]

no fuel pump needed

[wilkin250r]

A fuel pump isn't absolutely necessary, but I'd reccomend one for consistency.

We all know that nitrous can have problems, but they only occur when you try to push the limits. There is only so much fuel/air you can pack into a cylinder before things blow up. A high compression piston and nitrous get along very well, up to a point, then they become mortal enemies. If they fight, the piston and rod will lose. :(

The bottom end isn't a problem, unless the top end goes also. The tranny doesn't care where the extra power comes from, whether it is a big-bore running 13:1 compression or nitrous. To the bottom end, 60HP is 60HP, either from nitrous or a highly modified motor, it's all the same to the crank and gears. In fact, nitrous is probably better for your bottom end than a big-bore, because the big bore is making power ALL the time, while nitrous is only making power when the button is pushed.

Nitrous is more dangerous at low rpms than high rpms.

[nakomis0]

The Z400 we had on nitrious lasted for only maybe 5 months.

12:1 compression. Started out with only 10-15 hp shots. But the owner was told by 'someone with experiance' that he could hit it with as much as its normal hp.... So eventually it was being shot consitantly with 30-35hp shots.

I wish I had pics, the rod broke just under the wrist pin, It blew a 3" hole in the top of the motor, with took out the case and the cylinder. There also was a smaller 1" hole on the bottom of the motor.

I dont understand what ya mean Wilkin with you say the bottom isnt a problem unless the top goes? What can go wrong with the top?

[Hondaluva]

then they become mortal enemies. If they fight, the piston and rod will lose.

It is my understanding that nitrous simply and drastically lowers the temp. of the intake air (we all know that colder intake air makes more power) which in turn produces more HP.

The problem is the threat of your engine running lean which we all know will destroy it. So what are we really taking about here guys?

I believe we are talking about colder air, the need not lean out the engine and of course reliability. It's rather simple but the tirck is figuring out how they all work together and as always the proper set up is key.



Anyone running it?? Yes.



Big difference?? Yes.



Any piston problems?? You bet ya.

I don't have first had experience with any of this but I am guessing that you had better do your homework 100% if you want to be riding that machine very long. Good luck.

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by Hondaluva
It is my understanding that nitrous simply and drastically lowers the temp. of the intake air (we all know that colder intake air makes more power) which in turn produces more HP.


Nitrous does lower the temp of the intake charge but the power comes from the chemical breakdown of the nitrous when it hits 450 degrees, which releases a large amount of oxygen. Wet systems add more fuel to keep the mixture stoichiometric. The nitrogen acts as a buffer against the increased cylinder pressures which is why you can run normal or slightly increased compression and still be ok if you don't go overboard.
I would reccommend a fuel pump and pressure gauges. Too much nitrous and you'll lean it up and burn/break pistons, rods, etc. Too much fuel (like you are running too much nitrous pressure and causes the solenoid to snap shut for a second) and you can get a backfire that can take out your carb, airbox, valves, etc.
If you decide to do it read up all you can on nitrous. There are some good books available through Summit Racing, amazon.com, etc on the subject. Most apply to cars but the theory is the same.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by nakomis0
I dont understand what ya mean Wilkin with you say the bottom isnt a problem unless the top goes? What can go wrong with the top?

I guess that kind of depends on where you draw the line between the top end and bottom end.

The rod, rings, piston, or head gasket are the usual problem areas with nitrous, which are all generally on the top of the engine. You're not going to blow your clutch or bend your shift-forks with nitrous. Nitrous will not generally cause any transmission problems, strip your gears, or crack your cases. All the problems with nitrous are associated with the top end, whether you burn a hole in your piston, blow a head gasket, or break your rod. (although the rod is kind of a gray area)

However, if you DO break your rod, you could easily also tear up your crank, and cause other problems on the lower end and transmission, but it STARTED with the top end.

[wilkin250r]

Originally posted by Hondaluva
It is my understanding that nitrous simply and drastically lowers the temp. of the intake air (we all know that colder intake air makes more power) which in turn produces more HP.


Andrew did a pretty good job of explaining, I'll give a more simple explanation.

Nitrous oxide is comprised of nitrogen and oxygen in a single molecule. When it reaches 450 (during the compression stroke) it breaks down into individual nitrogen and oxygen molecules. Now, you have a much greater supply of oxygen!

So what do we do with all this new-found oxygen? Well duh, lets add more fuel! Since we have so much more oxygen, we can burn more fuel, and create more power! Nitrous oxide itself does not burn, so it is not a fuel. It simply adds more oxygen.

Oxygen is very reactive. If you tried to inject pure oxygen into your intake, your entire intake would quickly rust. Nitrous oxide will not cause rust, but it will still break down under normal engine operating conditions to give you more oxygen. It's basically like injecting pure oxygen without the rust.

Yes, nitrous will cool your intake, but that's not were the extra power comes from. The extra power actually comes from the additional oxygen created when the nitrous breaks down.

Personally, I run my nitrous a little lean, but I don't recommend that you follow my example.

[Hondaluva]

I did a little bit more reading. This is what I found out about intake temps.

as
pressurized nitrous oxide is injected into the intake manifold, it changes from
a liquid to a gas (boils). This boiling affect reduces the temperature of the
nitrous to a minus 127 Degrees F. This "cooling affect" in turn significantly
reduces intake charge temperatures by approximately 60-75 Degrees F. This also
helps create additional power. A general rule of thumb: For every 10 Degrees F.
reduction in intake charge temperature, a 1% increase in power will be realized.
Example: A 200 HP engine with an intake temperature drop of 70 Degrees F, would
gain approximately 14 HP on the cooling affect alone.

[wilkin250r]

^Indeed, you can get a small gain from cooling the intake. Colder air is more dense, so it has more oxygen in it. It is most effective in cars that automatically adjust your fuel/air ratio based on various sensors (mostly the O2 sensor) to give you extra fuel to compliment this extra oxygen. However, to put it into perspective, if you cool your intake by 60 degrees, and somehow automatically adjust your jetting to go along with it, you would see 2hp on a stock 400EX. Obviously nitrous can give you 5, 10, even 20 extra horsepower. The boosting effect of nitrous goes far beyond simply cooling your intake.