Too squash all the TIM FARR rumors!!

[Acid_Rain]

First there is no recall on the bike pertaining to Tim's Performance, currently the deal is that it is a matter of who is running the show, as to why he might not be winning, Honda is currently calling all the shots, how ever they are telling people like Mark baldwin and Laeger how to make the bike work, wrong, if they just let them do what they do it will work a whole lot better.
Last race he ran some other a-arm combo cause it had the monoballs in the pivots because that is what honda wanted, if we were to make them like that then everyone else would want them like that, no good, for us at least. They said there was too much deflection with the delrin plastic, causing a bind.
The Rims were a problem cause he was running a 1-4 wheel or a stock honda wheel and the Pro trax was desinged for a 2-3 and if you know anything about geometry you would understand what the problem is.
The bike actually had to much traction so they had to adjust the motor hieght to make the tires break loose and not have the push in corners. Laeger's guess was a hair off of the engineers actuall calculation. He said 1/4, honda said 6mm

Once Honda lets the racers be racers he will start to win big!!
There is no confidence problem with him, he is one of the best pilots in the buisness, that is why he has the job and not anyone else.

[Hammer trx450r]

Hey acid-rain, how is his bike setup for mx, meaning a arm lenght, rim offset, axle lenght, swinger lenght and anything else you can think of?

[MIA450R]

Adjust the motor height???

What the heck are you talking about? Dont even tell me the 450R doesnt like to break loose because of a needed 6mm change in motor height...

If you really know what you are talking about here, please go into some more detail on this. I mean, I could see the dunlop rear tires causing the R to not want to break loose, but not some basic engineering flaw on Hondas part....

thanks for any clarification.

[Barely legal]

Wow, I thought this was going to be some rumor squashing stuff. It's more like 1 mm excuses. 1-2 mm motor height means NOTHING. Offset, that's his mistake but it's not going to make much of a difference. Bushing compound? Huh?

Sounds like Tim, all his mechanics and honda are walkin around scratchin their azzes and not gettin a dam thing done but loosin at the races...:rolleyes:

[trx11t]

Wow. That is one hell of an explaination. So Honda doesn't know how to build an ATV to go fast? Is that what you are saying? I don't buy it. I think they are just struggling with getting the setup right on an ATV that isn't as race ready as Honda makes it out to be.
I mean if Kory Ellis can take a stock YFZ and in 1 weeks time finish in the top five of the Pro (Not Pro Production) class and then win the pro production class a couple weeks later, Tim should be able to do the same thing in the five month's he has had his 450R unless the thing has some serious issues to be worked out.
Did I hear somewhere that Tim broke his collar bone or something while testing this thing before it was introduced? That can shake you up pretty good if you felt it was a problem with the bike and not a mistake on his part.

[Acid_Rain]

Ok well I can't really go into detail on what is on the bike for M/c setup,. cause what advantage would that be. It is a stuggle of power, It is HONDA's deal so they have to do what they say. Even though kory has won on the bike Yamaha engineers are not telling him how to set up "his" bike are they???

[QUOTE]1-2 mm motor height means NOTHING. Offset, that's his mistake but it's not going to make much of a difference. Bushing compound?
It seems like you don't know that much about how the geometry of a bike works?? I could go into plenty of detail as to why the 1-4 rim to 2-3 rim is night and day, in relation to the king-pin inclination on the spindle. Have you seen the Laeger banshees dominate at PDV well it wasn't more than a few MM in swingarm pivot location that makes them hook!
Tim was having a problem with the bike pushing in the corners and the take off it wanted to wheelie, so by correcting the relation of the sproket-swing arm pivot-and swing arm sproket centerline, it allowed the bike to "spin" the tires more, Baldwin said that "little" change has done wonders.

As for the explination on the bike tim is running a +2.5 protraxx front end (and for the bushings compound, you think he liked going back to the ball joint front end??, i don't think he made that call do you??
The swing arm is either +1.25 or the +5/8 depending on what they want to run

To explain the swing arm relation it would be much quicker and simpler to have a bike infont of you. but take a look at the differnt models and draw a line from the CL of the sproket, to the swing arm pivot CL, to the swing arm CL and compare them, such as a DeadSlow650 to a banshee or 250R.

[Barely legal]

I know a TON about geometry, suspension, motors and everything of the like. You said hte motor was too high, not that it was cocked off to an angle or anything else. Sounds like your a parrot and just repeating a bunch of stuff people were discussing in front of you. You keep saying you're not going to go into this or that. Please do, we'd love to understand what you're talking about.

[SnellCRP]

How exactly would you correct the relation of the sprocket-swing arm pivot-and swing arm sprocket centerline? You are talking the relationship between the sprocket on the engine to the swingarm pivot correct? OK if so the only things you could do to change that relationship would be to move the engine up or down by changing the motors mounts, but the engine would still have to pivot on the swingarm bolt unless new engine cases were made that changed that relationship. Effectively you are moving the engine sprocket more above or below the swingarm pivot bolt. I guess I'm not clear on how that makes the quad tight or loose. You would think if it was pushing they would add more length to the swingarm which would move your weight bias more forward to take some of the traction off of the rear and add some weight over the front. Just clarify a little. Thanks.

[joe1l]

Tim was having a problem with the bike pushing in the corners and the take off it wanted to wheelie, so by correcting the relation of the sproket-swing arm pivot-and swing arm sproket centerline, it allowed the bike to "spin" the tires more, Baldwin said that "little" change has done wonders.

This sounds interesting, is this an easy mod you can do to the 450R for more wheel spin, or does it require a bunch of customizing.

[Acid_Rain]

hmm called out i see, well next time you are at a nascar race, ask ray evernham what Cam shaft profile he is running and what stagger is on the car, or what psi is in the tires, or better yet or at the next offroad race ask the Kyle Taylors crew chief what are the funny hoses coming off the shocks. I am sure they will just come out and tell you!!! Mabey Austin Coil will tell you what clutch percentage he is running at the start and 60 ft mark and when it stalls.

[robby26wi]

His a arms are + 2 3/8 and the offsets are 4-1 and 3-2...he need to run 3-2 to get his width and geometry right for the + 2 3/8 arms...

[trx11t]

I guess my point is if Kory can take an ATV that no body has ever seen before and slap some hand built a-arms strictly based on mounting points with a wider axle and go out and win without 2 minutes of testing. That tells me the machine must be a hell of a lot closer to a race machine to begin with than what Tim is running if what you say is true.
From what I know (and that's not much) everyone is pretty much sticking with the stock YFZ geometry just making it wider. With the Honda it sounds like they are having to jack around with different length's and off set's. That doesn't sound very good to me.
I mean Tim has had this bike for what 6 month's and they are still fighting to get it right? With Honda supplying him one off parts.
Not that I have any clue what is going on in his camp but it sure doesn't look good for Honda does it?
First all the magazines beat it down and now you are saying it is so out of whack that even Factory Honda can't seem to get it right. Wow Honda must be kicking them selves pretty good right now.

[shollz]

I can't believe you guys expect Tim to go out and win every race. Doug Gust beat Tim 6 out of the 10 Pro Production Races, Farr only won 2 races last year. Plus add in all the fast riders that raced only Pro last year like Jones, Little and Byrd, and now you have a super competitive field. And these guys are hungry, because now there is factory backing involved and contracts up for grabs possibly next year. Farr may be a little out of shape compared to last year, but Gust, Ellis, Little, Jones, and Natalie have been training super hard for this year.


All the quads are pretty equal, yet all have there own problems.
The YFZ is having electrical problems as well as a few motor and tranny issues. As for the TRX450R It is a super solid bike with a couple minor flaws and one big one. The minor flaws are the carb and a weak side case around the kick starter ( I have personally seen 3 broken). The major flaw is the rear shock and linkage. All of the major shock guys will tell you that to get a shock to work correctly in the rear on a race quad it has to have at least 11" of travel. This is not possible oon the honda. Honda did not use the CR linkage, and I do not know why . But Farr's backend seems to be dancing all over the place. And if Wayne from PEP can't get it right then there is a major design flaw that needs to be fixed.

But seriously you guys can't expect to have the Honda clean house, with all of these quads being so close. It really comes down to alot of training and a little luck.


That is my 2 cents

Later Fellas

[Acid_Rain]

Well said shollz. Mark L said that they didn't use the linkage cause they thought it wouldn't hold up, yet he has been using it for hmmm how many years now. So what wouldn't hold the chassis or the swing arm, Honda just needs to let the Guru's do what they do best, win races.

I don't know how many "one off" parts honda is providing him, cause it is a pro-production class. And everything we have made for that program is available to the average joe.

It dosn't matter how good the rider is, if the gun isn't loaded, when you pull the trigger nothing happens.

HONDA, LET THEM WORK, BE A SILENT PARTNER!!

[popo]

Sounds like the Honda engineers have their heads up there *** and can't make a race quad right with out going to the aftermarket companies, who put the Honda name on the podium in the first place. Now they won't let Farr and company do their job.

No wonder it took Honda how many years to come out with a new sport quad??? Schedule meetings to hold meetings.

[jb500ex]

it sounds like alot of excuses to me. honda has won alot more championships than baldwin, im sure they know what they are doing. and if things are not right now they will get it right

[thomez]

I don't think Tim was even running a Laeger front end in the last pictures I saw... I think it was JB ?

It all sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Nobody raises or lowers their motor 6mm ... wtf... how about adding some length to the swinger or maybe going +1/2 or +1 forward on the a-arms, or changing the gearing so you can get it to break loose, or maybe just running different tires, but moving motor mount location? come on...

Can the Honda even run a +2 1/2" front end and 3/2 offsets and stay at or under 50" ?

Acid_Rain I would say if you can't go into details or say anything that people don't already know, why start this post? Of course people will call you out... and if you can't answer because it is some top secret (like anyone else competitive is runnin an R anyways ummm.... nope) then there is no reason to play the "I know but I can't tell you" game.

[Chef]

Honda has won alot of bike championships...but I dont think they could make a quad win in the pro class if their lives depended on it. Thats just my opinion, though. :blah:

[jb500ex]

thats stupid honda has the ability too do just about anything they want. if you don't think they can make a quad that can win you are not thinking straight. they have more money for r&d then every aftermarket company comnbined. and they definately have the knowledge.

[AlaskaSpeed]

I am sure if he told you guys, he'd have to kill ya......:devil:

[popo]

Originally posted by jb500ex
thats stupid honda has the ability too do just about anything they want. if you don't think they can make a quad that can win you are not thinking straight. they have more money for r&d then every aftermarket company comnbined. and they definately have the knowledge.

Than why is does it take the aftermarket companies to fix their problems.

[schmitthead]

i think hondas mindset was altered after they seen the aftermarket boom with the 250r. I think they designed it with that in mind. they made the basic design of the 450r to be suitable for mild motocross and excellent trail riding knowing that the aftermarket will boom which will make it an all out mx monster.
my 2 cents

[Tommy 17]

this is the type of thing that really pisses me off...


honda didn't even perfect the 250r... they sit there and say yeah the 250r was the greatest race machine of all time... wrong... the laeger was the best race machine of all time... those bikes are not 250rs... they are based off it but they are not a true 250r...

mark laeger is what kept quad racing alive... when he put the 1993 cr500 linkage and the narrow front end with a t-pin thats what made the 250r a race machine... go look down pro row when they were protraxs bikes and see how many were a stock linkage... 0... its was either a cr500 linkage, 450f linkage, or a no link...


the thing is now that mark once again (if this guy is for real) knows the fix once again to the honda... could make it so we have the perfect bike (move the motor 6mm and add a 450f linkage) but honda and stupid racer production won't let them... bc they are in it for the money... they don't care about how the bikes are... long as they get their cut...

i say let the pros go back to aftermarket frames and let them do what they want... this FACTORY SUPPORT (which is a joke) ain't doin nothing for the average riders... and them sayin its to cut the cost of the race bike for everyone... BS! its the same price... to buy the stk yfz is the same amount to buy the 450fmotor and chassis...

this is just my opinion on the whole thing...

[Ralph]

Originally posted by Tommy 17
this is the type of thing that really pisses me off...


honda didn't even perfect the 250r... they sit there and say yeah the 250r was the greatest race machine of all time... wrong... the laeger was the best race machine of all time... those bikes are not 250rs... they are based off it but they are not a true 250r...

mark laeger is what kept quad racing alive... when he put the 1993 cr500 linkage and the narrow front end with a t-pin thats what made the 250r a race machine... go look down pro row when they were protraxs bikes and see how many were a stock linkage... 0... its was either a cr500 linkage, 450f linkage, or a no link...


the thing is now that mark once again (if this guy is for real) knows the fix once again to the honda... could make it so we have the perfect bike (move the motor 6mm and add a 450f linkage) but honda and stupid racer production won't let them... bc they are in it for the money... they don't care about how the bikes are... long as they get their cut...

i say let the pros go back to aftermarket frames and let them do what they want... this FACTORY SUPPORT (which is a joke) ain't doin nothing for the average riders... and them sayin its to cut the cost of the race bike for everyone... BS! its the same price... to buy the stk yfz is the same amount to buy the 450fmotor and chassis...

this is just my opinion on the whole thing...

im with tammy, i dont have anything to back up though but ive read alot on it by john arens and he feels the same way, do a search and read his opinion and everyone will agree, I am just glad im a little novice racer and can ride just about anything i want...lol

[Acid_Rain]

It all sounds like a bunch of BS to me. Nobody raises or lowers their motor 6mm ... wtf... how about adding some length to the swinger or maybe going +1/2 or +1 forward on the a-arms, or changing the gearing so you can get it to break loose, or maybe just running different tires, but moving motor mount location? come on...

Can the Honda even run a +2 1/2" front end and 3/2 offsets and stay at or under 50" ?
(no that is why the run a 1-4 wheel the arm as deep into the rim as possible , making the scub radius huge!)

Again you have to understand the geometry of the relationship from the swing arm pivot, the enging sproket, and the swing arm sproket, think of it like this while standing place your hand on a table, the hand represents the swing arm sproket. now your elbow is the SA piviot, and your shoulder is your engine sproket. Now when you bend your elbow it is much like the swing arm moving up and down. When under power the two sprockets will come togather, now depending on how high off the plane the pivot is well determine how much wieght is transffered. The farther it is away will result in, wait, YES, LESS TRACTION, AND MORE WHEEL SPIN!!!Now look at the picture(it is horrible i know) but it shows what I mean, now with your arm elbow experiment the more your arm is bent the easier it is to collapse the arm, and if your elbow is closer to locked the hard it is to bring those two points togather, same is applied to the bike the farther off the pivot is off of the plane the bike will want to stink bug more, and the closer it is to the center line plane the more it will bury the rear end and hook.

so inclosing rotating the motor down will allow the bike to transfer less weight and spin more. Hope this helps.

(ohh yeah, I don't know what i am talking about, I am just shooting from the hip, never learned anything in my years of working on projects..... :D ....lol)
http://www.dtfab.com/duh.jpg

[popo]

Thank You.... Tommy

You took the words right out my mouth. This is something that I have been complaining about since the production quads only rule.

[Ralph]

Originally posted by popo
Thank You.... Tommy

You took the words right out my mouth. This is something that I have been complaining about since the production quads only rule.

so were not jsut stupid kids!:eek:

[popo]

Originally posted by Ralph
so were not jsut stupid kids!:eek:

No, Just bad at spelling. "jsut" :D

[Ralph]

dont try to make me look stu.stu.stu.. stoopid.

[LostCause439]

Uhh What :huh

[Hammer trx450r]

thanks ralph i couldnt stop laughing

[z400ACDC]

Originally posted by Tommy 17
this is the type of thing that really pisses me off...


honda didn't even perfect the 250r... they sit there and say yeah the 250r was the greatest race machine of all time... wrong... the laeger was the best race machine of all time... those bikes are not 250rs... they are based off it but they are not a true 250r...

mark laeger is what kept quad racing alive... when he put the 1993 cr500 linkage and the narrow front end with a t-pin thats what made the 250r a race machine... go look down pro row when they were protraxs bikes and see how many were a stock linkage... 0... its was either a cr500 linkage, 450f linkage, or a no link...


the thing is now that mark once again (if this guy is for real) knows the fix once again to the honda... could make it so we have the perfect bike (move the motor 6mm and add a 450f linkage) but honda and stupid racer production won't let them... bc they are in it for the money... they don't care about how the bikes are... long as they get their cut...

i say let the pros go back to aftermarket frames and let them do what they want... this FACTORY SUPPORT (which is a joke) ain't doin nothing for the average riders... and them sayin its to cut the cost of the race bike for everyone... BS! its the same price... to buy the stk yfz is the same amount to buy the 450fmotor and chassis...

this is just my opinion on the whole thing...
TOMMY HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! I have been telling people this for years.

[Ralph]

pro productiona and big sponserships are less than a year old...:blah:

[Vtr_Racing]

Any way you slice it, racing is expensive. Its always good to have factory involvement in racing. There are some really great bikes out there right now. We have more choices now than ever before on a great machine. Almost anyone of the mfr`s can be a winner with the right equip and rider.

[desratt]

i totally agree. the rich big companys get richer and bigger and the small companies dry up. next they may say you need to use stock a-arms.
come on racing is about being fast. and they would be faster on an aftermarket chassis. there would still be competition between the manufacturers. like ALLUMINUM FRAME.
the aftermarket companies MADE the sport. now they have almost perfected it. let them finish. the big corporate companies are to worried about getting sued and making money. do you see the owners of honda motor corporation at a gnc? now do you see mark laeger? damn right you see him. yes i own every product he sells for a 450r and a 400ex. why ? cause it's down right good stuff.

[desratt]

so now they have moved tim farrs engine mount. which is part of the frame right. SOOOOOOOOOO NOW THIS IS AN AFTERMARKET CHASSIS RIGHT. HE NEEDS TO BE DISQUALIFIED. but now who do i root for.?

[4fiddyR]

Not if Honda designed and fabbed it on his quads. J. Jones' frame is gusseted, is that now aftermarket? It's not done by Yamaha. The Pro Production class has rules and regualations for everyone to obey, they do get teched every race.

I got an idea, everyone quit nit-pickin, and LET THEM RACE.:devil:

[robby26wi]

If u move pivot points or a arm mounts its indeed illegal...gusseting what is already there is fine...

[Ralph]

and if doesnt matter who makes the modification, honda or not cause if honda changed the frame they would have to release it to the public

[450Racer]

here's what i think....

either the factories give them real support and pay for their racing and parts or...

let them do whatever the hell the want with the quad they get. it'll still be the brand name no matter what mods you do to it. racing is all about bike setup. look at gust? he's dominating 6 wins straight on a sport 400 against the new 450 race bikes. is that a joke? no, he's setting his bike up how me wants it.

Honda has some business problems. they let carmichael go after winning 10 champs in a row? what's up with that? they give 2 guys quads to race. that's a joke! i'm sure they can do a little better than 15g? they have billions! yamaha has made a huge name for itself. you see EVERYONE racing yam. except for plante, farr, and gust.

some of the local dirtbike racers get a free bike but Honda can't do better than 2 of the best? that's pathetic. every quad has it's ups and downs. you know you're going to mod the crap out of it anyway, so why complain about stock stuff?

[Scottie Mac]

My only issue with the productions rules is that if they are required to use ONLY gusseted, stock frames, they need to inforce and DQ ANYONE who changes the frame. If Farr, Gust, Jones or anyone is changing the geometry of the frame, everyone has to be able to do the same. I used to race Jet Skis on the National Tour and it was rediculas how many people had "cheater" hulls because of who they race for. And if they were racing for Factory Kawi or Factory Yamaha, the sanctioning body would turn a blind eye.

An even playing field MUST be inforced. If any rider is caught with a "cheater" frame, they should be DQ'd and barred from the next race. If you are a factory rider or backed rider, you shouldn't have to use a "cheater" frame to beat the average, everyday pro.

Scott

[JWhite]

Originally posted by Acid_Rain
(no that is why the run a 1-4 wheel the arm as deep into the rim as possible , making the scub radius huge!)

Again you have to understand the geometry of the relationship from the swing arm pivot, the enging sproket, and the swing arm sproket, think of it like this while standing place your hand on a table, the hand represents the swing arm sproket. now your elbow is the SA piviot, and your shoulder is your engine sproket. Now when you bend your elbow it is much like the swing arm moving up and down. When under power the two sprockets will come togather, now depending on how high off the plane the pivot is well determine how much wieght is transffered. The farther it is away will result in, wait, YES, LESS TRACTION, AND MORE WHEEL SPIN!!!Now look at the picture(it is horrible i know) but it shows what I mean, now with your arm elbow experiment the more your arm is bent the easier it is to collapse the arm, and if your elbow is closer to locked the hard it is to bring those two points togather, same is applied to the bike the farther off the pivot is off of the plane the bike will want to stink bug more, and the closer it is to the center line plane the more it will bury the rear end and hook.

so inclosing rotating the motor down will allow the bike to transfer less weight and spin more. Hope this helps.

(ohh yeah, I don't know what i am talking about, I am just shooting from the hip, never learned anything in my years of working on projects..... :D ....lol)
http://www.dtfab.com/duh.jpg

This guy is for real and there's an explanation that shows he obviously knows what he's talking about.

Acid: I agree with you 100% and appreciate the info you provided. Nevermind the disrespect that some of these "know it alls" show you. You gave them a clean well thought out explanation and yet they give you no credit for it because either they fail to understand it or else they won't admit they just been checkmated.

Also,,,,,,,,,,,,Seems some people just don't know the restrictions a factory ride can put on ya. Sure Honda FACTORY teams did used to have it down dialing in BIKES for MX, but they never had anywheres near that same invincability in the quad department. The AFTERTMARKET race companies made quad racing what it has elvolved into today. If they untie Farr....he will do BETTER.

[4fiddyR]

Well said, and I agree!(JWhite)

[rummerd]

Gotta disaggree with you a little. There were no big aftermarket companies making shocks and frames and A-arms and complete bikes like you have today. Back in the day, Honda dominated across every type of off-road racing whether it be motorcycles or ATV's. People like Dean Sundahl, Curtis Sparks, and Jimmy White all road Honda, and they all won. Perhaps these names ring a bell?

[coryatver]

maybe honda will change the frame and link on the 450r next year and we will benefit from the race program

[JWhite]

Originally posted by rummerd
Gotta disaggree with you a little. There were no big aftermarket companies making shocks and frames and A-arms and complete bikes like you have today. Back in the day, Honda dominated across every type of off-road racing whether it be motorcycles or ATV's. People like Dean Sundahl, Curtis Sparks, and Jimmy White all road Honda, and they all won. Perhaps these names ring a bell?

You are wrong here my friend. I remember the days all too well. ;)

Dean and Curtis rode Hondas.

http://********.com/images/LLegWhiteKaw8-17-00.jpg

See the boys here (http://********.com/schedules/fast-trak-events/fast-trak-events-legends-2000.htm)

[greenhuman]

Rummerd
Here's a gun, now if you can just find your foot.

[ATC83]

Originally posted by rummerd
Gotta disaggree with you a little. There were no big aftermarket companies making shocks and frames and A-arms and complete bikes like you have today. Back in the day, Honda dominated across every type of off-road racing whether it be motorcycles or ATV's. People like Dean Sundahl, Curtis Sparks, and Jimmy White all road Honda, and they all won. Perhaps these names ring a bell?

I was around back in the day and Jimmy White rode Kawasaki. I was wondering if all the problems with the geometry on the TRX450 are a result of Honda not having any engineers left working for them from the 250R days. I would assume that many of the engineers that worked on riginal 250R project way back in 1985 are retired. I also wonder if the TRX450R was originnally designed for the XR650 engine and the project was changed when they started to hear about Yamaha putting the YZF450 dirt bike engine in a quad. It always seemed to me that this bike seed like it was rushed out. Just a couple of thoughts to mull over.

[rummerd]

I would say my point is still valid. Factory support was the rule back then, they were the ones building the machines. I do remember (Curtis Sparks I think) would have these custom built bikes with 4 stroke motors crafted into them.

[JWhite]

The days of the "works" machines. :cool:

[rummerd]

Yep, true hand crafted black magic. Do you remember the 3 wheeler that used an Indy car shock in the rear suspension? I am not sure, but I think it was a Penske shock

[BigAl]

I'm not sure rummered, has quite got it yet.

There are others on here old enough to know who runs the green 31. :D

[rummerd]

Hey bigAl, WTF? OK, I understand that Jimmy White rode a Kawasaki. My point is, that he did it with FACTORY SUPPORT. I agree some of us, me included, were in fact around back then. You don't hold the monopoly on that. I would venture a guess that a lot of people building parts today, got their start under a factory backed program. I won't drop names for fear that I may get crushed for being incorrect on one or two, but if you look at the Legends picture a lot of those former racers, are current builders of chassis parts and motors. Where did they learn what works and what doesn't?

[JWhite]

We were allowed much more flexibility back then too. Today is totally different obviously. :(

[Vtr_Racing]

Found this pic on another website. This shows the lowered motor. Much of the Honda`s handling issues have been cured with the suspension tweaking. Not sure if the 06 Honda engine has been moved by the factory or not.

[joedirt]

If it is such a terrible handling quad tell that to Natalie and Borich. Look the racers are getting faster and faster. I know when a quad doesn't hook up I'll play with the ride hieght or the spring rate. Acid-Rain you sound like a disgruntled Farr fan making excusses up for him. If they were going to try these things on the quad they have 5 days to test them. Testing doesn't go on racedays. When you test the stop watch tells the truth. BLA BLA BLA angles castor camber degrees. Honda puts you in the ballpark we gotta fine tune them from there. Stop being so disgruntled a Honda won the MX championship anyway.

[PeeWee21]

Look at the date on this thread, i figure that it's been resolved ny now!!;)

[joedirt]

What the HE11 is this post doing at the top of the list then. Someone delete it for god's sake

[quadracer12]

maybe honda should just buy one of natalie's bikes off him. i think its the rider not the bike.

[Acid_Rain]

I am not anyones FANN I just used to build the parts and etc for his bikes and as a result I knew what was going on, on the inside.

[Vtr_Racing]

Originally posted by joedirt
If it is such a terrible handling quad tell that to Natalie and Borich. Look the racers are getting faster and faster. I know when a quad doesn't hook up I'll play with the ride hieght or the spring rate. Acid-Rain you sound like a disgruntled Farr fan making excusses up for him. If they were going to try these things on the quad they have 5 days to test them. Testing doesn't go on racedays. When you test the stop watch tells the truth. BLA BLA BLA angles castor camber degrees. Honda puts you in the ballpark we gotta fine tune them from there. Stop being so disgruntled a Honda won the MX championship anyway.
This wasnt about Tim Farr. This post wasnt about a terrible handling bike. This post wasnt even about Honda being better than any other bike! There was much going on when the 450r first came out and even before it came out. Certain people were privy to the info and the motor postition was one of the issues that came up. I found the pic and thought it interesting that the motor WAS moved. Thats it.
Sorry David. Didnt mean to stir up a hornets nest over nothing.
I would like to thank Laegers, and David for building us some killer suspension. You guys rock!

[xcountry]

Actually Tim,s motor wasn't moved if you look at his tt bike you'll see the bottom frame rails were crushed, that actually lowered the motor. This is perfectly legal according to the ama, the motor itself is in the actual location on the lower motor mount.