oil cooler and plugreading Question for you all....

[QuadJunkies]

I was just curious if running race gas can give your plug reading a different color???(lighter) I cant believe how much change thre was on our last plug reading with a new piston .....:huh Also~~~~~~ I think Im in the need for a bigger oil cooler , This wk end was thefirst time since Ive had the motor done that we had 70 degree weather and ran into it running HOT:eek2: It smelled lie hot oil and the motor was WAAAAYYYYY overheated , I felt like my boot was on fire, It actually wanted to sputter out and die a fwtimes, so I parked it for an hour at a time to cool off.......It hasnt EVEN got hot here yet and Im doing the Dunetopia trip in June so I need fixed up now!! Can you all give me the best advice on an oil cooler and where to buy, pricing ect.... Are they hard to install??? Will I have to move my Rezzies?????

[Colby@C&DRacing]

Race gas is the only way to get a real plug reading. Pump gas will just confuse you because it has no lead to leave the colored deposits you need to determine if you are lean or rich. If you put in a high compression piston and it is getting really hot at 70 degrees you are running way lean and need to give that thing some fuel. I have had better luck with changing to a cooler plug and running a good set of air scoops like the RTC scoops than using some of the oil coolers out there. Also after you have that motor broken in change to a good synthetic oil likes Amsoil it helps with the heat.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
Race gas is the only way to get a real plug reading. Pump gas will just confuse you because it has no lead to leave the colored deposits you need to determine if you are lean or rich. If you put in a high compression piston and it is getting really hot at 70 degrees you are running way lean and need to give that thing some fuel. I have had better luck with changing to a cooler plug and running a good set of air scoops like the RTC scoops than using some of the oil coolers out there. Also after you have that motor broken in change to a good synthetic oil likes Amsoil it helps with the heat. Thanks Colby for the reply!!:)
Actually, I should have been more specific........The Predator is the one who runs race gas, he runs 60/40 Pump Prem. and VO c12, his plug was perfect until the piston was installed ,now its got a white plug reading,the first test before the piston was laso with race gas,but only a Vortex and new Valve springs,We couldnt believe that a HP piston made that much difference:eek2: in a plug reading..!! I wasnt sure if a plug reading with pump gas vs race gas gave a different........ NOW I KNOW IT DOES. As far as my plug is now, its pretty dark in color almost too dark actually....


Now as for the overheating.. that is my 426 big bore Im referring to in my EX. I run a Castrol GPS for high modded motors so it will run cooler I have also ran synthetic for over 1 1/2 years now, also it has a hotter plug in it already. I will check into some scoops for it, who sells them??Link??? Ive been pretty dialed in on my plugs so I dont think its lean...I was told I would need a bigger cooler, but this led me to think maybe I do for sand riding....Scoops , I will try!!!

[Colby@C&DRacing]

I recommend a cooler plug, as for the scoops I would bet the site sponsor sells them :rolleyes:

Is the 426 in a stock sleeve or did you resleeve it?

[cals400ex]

yeah, a hotter plug may make the bike run not to its potential. after i put a piston in my bike i feel that it runs better with the colder plug than the stock plug. the colder plug is a ngk dpr9z for the 400ex's.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
I recommend a cooler plug, as for the scoops I would bet the site sponsor sells them :rolleyes:

Is the 426 in a stock sleeve or did you resleeve it? No, its not resleeved....I bet Ill be giving you a buzz then for some scoops then;) .. Any pics of what they look like????? Ive only bought scoops for the Predator.... Would the timnig being off cause it to run this way also??? I was worried when it started to die when it got hot of doing any damage to it....:( seems to run really good when its cooled down, Ill try another plug alos.Thanks for your help.......:) BTW... whats a new cooler run in price anyways??? Just in case I have to go this route.......

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by cals400ex
yeah, a hotter plug may make the bike run not to its potential. after i put a piston in my bike i feel that it runs better with the colder plug than the stock plug. the colder plug is a ngk dpr9z for the 400ex's. Thank you!!!!

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by cals400ex
yeah, a hotter plug may make the bike run not to its potential. after i put a piston in my bike i feel that it runs better with the colder plug than the stock plug. the colder plug is a ngk dpr9z for the 400ex's. I Called and they have a DPR9z in stock so Im gonna give that a shot ......:)

[cals400ex]

not to change the subject, but how do you like your ignition system? i was going to get the dyna but it only raise the rev limit 400 rpms over stock without the programing kit. that isn't going to be high enough for me. i then looked into the vortex and their website said it isn't even out for the 400ex yet. so, i don't know what to do.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by cals400ex
not to change the subject, but how do you like your ignition system? i was going to get the dyna but it only raise the rev limit 400 rpms over stock without the programing kit. that isn't going to be high enough for me. i then looked into the vortex and their website said it isn't even out for the 400ex yet. so, i don't know what to do. I know for the Predator the differences are well worth the investment..Not once has it hit the Rev limiter and we used to all the time...The Curve is very impressive, I have been hinting for Troy to get me one for my Honda :D ..I see that they do have one for the 400ex, but I read somewhere that it was for the Newer models??:confused: I need to call them and find out why they word it like that, cause from what I know there is no changes from the 02 models to the 04 models.....:huh Did they say when it will be avail. and how much they will run in price???I had my heart set on a CDI,but after much reading and listening to various riders, I decided unless Im changing my power curve I wont be getting anything else but a Vortex...

[cals400ex]

no, it said nothing about when they will be out. their site didn't say much. i am not sure on a price either. i called C&D and they said they can get them in. so, i don't know if they make more than one model or what. it is really confusing me. i couldn't even find a phone number. i think duncan sells these but i am not sure. i really only found distributors out of the united states besides duncan on their website. i think the website i looked at was: www.vortexcdi.com

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by cals400ex
no, it said nothing about when they will be out. their site didn't say much. i am not sure on a price either. i called C&D and they said they can get them in. so, i don't know if they make more than one model or what. it is really confusing me. i couldn't even find a phone number. i think duncan sells these but i am not sure. i really only found distributors out of the united states besides duncan on their website. i think the website i looked at was: www.vortexcdi.com Yes, Duncan sells them. We got ours threw Nicholascycles(polaris dealer) you might Try getting a ahold of Hardrock motor sports here in Idaho, they may be able to help you too.....;)

[A4StrokeGuy]

Well here are a few pics of my X-Factor Scoops that i purchased from C&D, fit was great and i'm very pleased with them!

[A4StrokeGuy]

last one

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by A4StrokeGuy
last one Thanks for posting the pics.!!!Im hoping I wont have to resort to runing race gas:rolleyes: Maybe this will help me alot with adding scoops and a cooler plug, then...... if need be.......Ill run a bigger cooler too I guess.....:( If my timing weas off, would that cause this also???? Im guessing I would have noticed a difference if the way it runs....?? It runs good, but when it got hot it wanted to die....Just wanting to know all the things I should check

[PHIL_B54]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
Nicholascycles(polaris dealer)

out of iowa, or a different Nicholas cycle?

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by PHIL_B54
out of iowa, or a different Nicholas cycle? Yes, Doug Nicholas he is Troys sponsor, I met him when i was trying to find a Vortex for the Predator

[Colby@C&DRacing]

What are your jetting specs. It sound as if you are running lean. The 426 kit installed with out resleeving runs hotter. Yes timing can overheat a bike but one tooth is alot in a 400ex. You should try mixing in some race gas if your bike is running hot and is lean it will ping and then that creates more heat( not a good deal).

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
What are your jetting specs. It sound as if you are running lean. The 426 kit installed with out resleeving runs hotter. Yes timing can overheat a bike but one tooth is alot in a 400ex. You should try mixing in some race gas if your bike is running hot and is lean it will ping and then that creates more heat( not a good deal). Im positive its not lean.....If I have to run ?Race gas, then Ill spend the Extra and get a bigger cooler first..

[Colby@C&DRacing]

I don't think you are understanding what I am getting at. Running an oil cooler will not lower your compression. If you need race gas you need race gas. Lowering the temp will help with power loss but not lower the psi in the cylinder which dictates the need for race gas. The pinging or preignition knock causes heat and in return causes more knock if you are sure you are jetted correctly and still have heat issues and power loss you need better fuel. The bike will run better, have more power, and run cooler on race gas.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
I don't think you are understanding what I am getting at. Running an oil cooler will not lower your compression. If you need race gas you need race gas. Lowering the temp will help with power loss but not lower the psi in the cylinder which dictates the need for race gas. The pinging or preignition knock causes heat and in return causes more knock if you are sure you are jetted correctly and still have heat issues and power loss you need better fuel. The bike will run better, have more power, and run cooler on race gas. I C see what were getting at now.DUH!!:o :p Well, three racing Companies told me I sohuld not nned race gas,and they still say that, thats why Im a little confused:confused: .. I guess it wouldnt hurt to ask,but Im not gonna be happy one bit if I have to :mad: I did NOT want that added expense, Troys sucks it down like Water...So should I try a mixure of 50/50 VP c-12??thats what we run in the Predator and have it on hand......

[MIKE400EX]

QJ,
An aux. oil cooler such as FST's, that dumps cool oil into the cam area will cool the cylinder head some. That cooling will also lessen the need for higher octane fuel and may even eliminate the need altogether if it is only a borderline condition. The same principal is why liquid cooled quads can run much more compression on pump gas.

[Colby@C&DRacing]

Well guess you should have asked me:) I sell dozens of these kits a week and have build alot of powerful 400ex's. Sorry you were misinformed by others but I would mix 50/50 preminum fuel with race gas. If you are concerned about the price buy something other than C12 it can be alittle pricey

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by MIKE400EX
QJ,
An aux. oil cooler such as FST's, that dumps cool oil into the cam area will cool the cylinder head some. That cooling will also lessen the need for higher octane fuel and may even eliminate the need altogether if it is only a borderline condition. The same principal is why liquid cooled quads can run much more compression on pump gas. Can you shoot me a link please. Heck, Im gonna just get the scoops, cooler and change the plug, run it for a bit do a plug reading and then run the fuel mixture if needed...I dont want to mess up my duning trip in June!!!:macho One thing I am sure of is my jetting is perfect, so popping,no shootin flames:o ect...

[Colby@C&DRacing]

Just because it is no pooping sputtering or shooting flames doesn't mean your jetting is correct. As I said before a plug check on pump gas is not going to be right. if you want to be 100% sure you are getting the most power out of your bike then use an o2 cencor to check jetting they are not exspensive and you and troy could use the same one.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
Just because it is no pooping sputtering or shooting flames doesn't mean your jetting is correct. As I said before a plug check on pump gas is not going to be right. if you want to be 100% sure you are getting the most power out of your bike then use an o2 cencor to check jetting they are not exspensive and you and troy could use the same one. Will do...;)

[PHIL_B54]

small world....im about an hour south of him. ive heard doug knows his stuff about preds. a friend had doug do some modifications to his carb on his pred and was very impressed.

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by Colby@C&DRacing
Just because it is no pooping sputtering or shooting flames doesn't mean your jetting is correct. As I said before a plug check on pump gas is not going to be right. if you want to be 100% sure you are getting the most power out of your bike then use an o2 cencor to check jetting they are not exspensive and you and troy could use the same one.

what is an O2 cencor? how will it be able to test the air/fuel ratio at full throttle? maybe you need a dyno for this?? how much do these run? thanks cal

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
Will do...;)



i checked on the vortex for the 400ex's and they aren't out yet. they weren't sure when they were coming. they said they aren't out yet because something about a flywheel mod. i am not sure what they mean by that though.

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
Thanks for posting the pics.!!!Im hoping I wont have to resort to runing race gas:rolleyes: Maybe this will help me alot with adding scoops and a cooler plug, then...... if need be.......Ill run a bigger cooler too I guess.....:( If my timing weas off, would that cause this also???? Im guessing I would have noticed a difference if the way it runs....?? It runs good, but when it got hot it wanted to die....Just wanting to know all the things I should check



my 10.8:1 406 even wants to die after i put in that piston and cam. i know it has something to do with the cam. the stage 1 doesn't give this problem. i have to lean out my fuel skrew in order for it to idle properly. it is perfect when the bike is cold but when it warms up it wants to die if i just barely nip the throttle. i am right now running a 42 pilot jet at 2 turns out on the fuel skrew. it pops on deceleration, but if i richen it up more it will want to die like you mentioned.

[QuadJunkies]

Originally posted by cals400ex
i checked on the vortex for the 400ex's and they aren't out yet. they weren't sure when they were coming. they said they aren't out yet because something about a flywheel mod. i am not sure what they mean by that though. Tanks for the info! I see in Atv sport there is another ignition out there for the 400ex, but I cant rememeber what the name of it was right off hand....

[QuadJunkies]

I think we got my quad figured out finally......:rolleyes: and we ordered an Oil Cooler from Mickey today too..Hopefully thingswill be back to running normal now...;)

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by QuadJunkies
I think we got my quad figured out finally......:rolleyes: and we ordered an Oil Cooler from Mickey today too..Hopefully thingswill be back to running normal now...;)

let us know how it runs.