View Full Version : Breaking in the 416.....Smoking
JhallettEX
03-08-2002, 11:45 AM
Well it is all complete, my local dealer told me to start it up and let it idle for about 30 min. shut it down and let it sit for 30 min. Repeat the process and then go for a short ride and then it will be ready.
The problem is now, There seems to be a slight raddle coming from the top end. I don't know if this is normal or if something is wrong, Whats up?
Also there seems to be a lot of smoe coming from the engine. Is this just becuase it is running hotter or what? Please help. Thanks alot guys.
knighttime
03-08-2002, 12:08 PM
Salesman are normally not good for technical engines issues.
Break in as follows. ride slow for 15 mins, let is cool completely, ride for 15 mins, let is cool completely. U r now broken in.
Your idling method should never be used if you installed a new cam.
You rattling is most likely the timing chain. It should tension itself.
The smoke is maybe oil burning off the outside of the engine.
big-guy
03-08-2002, 12:17 PM
Idle for 30 minutes? That's some lousy advice! At idle oil flow is lowest, and the top end doesn't get that much to begin with.
I'd just ride it, vary the speed, and don't go wot for long periods. As the rings seat, you'll feel the power increase, and the smoking will go away.
Don't forget to change the oil...
Originally posted by JhallettEX
Well it is all complete, my local dealer told me to start it up and let it idle for about 30 min.
:eek: :(
JhallettEX
03-08-2002, 01:06 PM
OHHH ****, I had already fired it up and let it idle for the 30 min. Now what?
Take it out fer a 10 minute ride at no more than 1/2 throttle,,is my only suggestion,,,at least that's what I would do. If ya still hear the noises,,check your valve clearance. Maybe call an engine builder,,terry marcum, tc racing, sparks,,etc..see what they have to say. :confused:
Originally posted by JhallettEX
OHHH ****, I had already fired it up and let it idle for the 30 min. Now what?
go back to your dealer and tell them they are full of $hit. that is one of the worst things you can do when breaking in a new top end.
Eric
MIKE400EX
03-08-2002, 02:49 PM
Check your valve clearances first, adjust if necessary, and then go out for an easy ride. If you still hear upper engine noise then let it cool and check the valves again. If valves are OK check the timing chain. If valves are loose then take the head cover off and check for cam wear. If everything is OK take it for a couple more easy rides, no long WOT blasts, letting it cool fully in between. Change the oil and filter and go try out your "new" machine. Good Luck!
For everyone else starting a new motor: NEVER NEVER NEVER let a new engine idle for any longer than you absolutely have to!!!!
ChadEXer
03-08-2002, 04:09 PM
I would definatly tell the dealer they are full of *****. The smoking a little is normal for about the first 2 hours of breaking in. The valves ahouldnt need adjusted until about 2-3 hours os breaking it in. The noise you are talking about is definately NOT normal. I would take it back!
JhallettEX
03-08-2002, 07:55 PM
OK guys now since I have done what I have done, what will this cause to my engine. Should I do anything to make sure everything is going to go allright in the future?
When I asked the mech. at the Honda dealership he said, " Start it up and let it idel for 30 min, Let it cool down and take it for a ride, Drain the oil and fill it, You will be ready to go."
I guess he was wrong then. I went back and bought 3 quarts of synthetic honda oil a new plug and filter. I will ride it once again and change the oil. Should I run synthtic for now on? Thanks for the help guys and I should have listened to all of you. I really dont have any area around were I am from to ride so when he said just let it idle it seemed like a good idea. Sorry.
knighttime
03-08-2002, 08:36 PM
Just ride the mofo in your yard. You dont even need a whole acre to do it. Just ride in a semi-circle around your house if u live in one.
As for the engine, did u do the work, or did the dealership? You should be ok if you really lubed up the sleeve, piston, and camshaft.
Keep the oil thats in it now to break it in. After its broken in go with the synthetic.
You should be ok,
Mike
Just a thought, really off the wall. Check the cam chain tensioner to see if was released after install. The factory manual says to hold it completely out with a special design tool when reinstalling cam chain tensioner. Don't know if it can be locked in that position, but it's worth checking. You can remove the plug and turn it with a small screwdriver to see if it is tensioning correctly or not at all. :confused:
MIKE400EX
03-09-2002, 06:37 AM
The cam chain tensioner can't be "locked in" unless something is wrong with it... like dirt. Take the cover screw off (the phillips head), the adjuster screw has a slotted head. Turn the adjuster screw clockwise about a turn to pull in the tensioner and release the chain tension. Will feel like you're winding a spring. Let the slotted screw driver spin in your fingers and the tensioner should snap/rotate back. Do not try and tighten it any more! If it doesn't snap back remove the tensioner ***'y and fix or replace it. Always unload it and let it re-tension after the two tensioner housing bolts are tightened.
If you paid the shop to install the kit, and the thing is smoking / rattling, I'd bring it back and have a 'chat' with them ;) The fact that they wanted you to idle the motor for 30 minutes would make me a little nervous though.. Your trying to break in new parts _but_ at idle there is very little oil flow in the engine AND no cooling air running over the motor..
If it was mine I'd start by checking the valve clearance.. If it's off it's time to pull the valve cover off and have a look at the cam lobes :(
I wouldn't switch over to synthetic until I had enough time on it to be sure the rings seated.. Probably a tank of gas, change the oil, then run a few more tanks through, then go to synthetic..
I'm not a big fan of synthetic for most applications, the 400EX is the exception.. But I wouldn't run it during break in.
330EXman
03-09-2002, 01:46 PM
hey man
the smoke is coming from the oil the mechanic used to lubricate the piston rings and sleeve. that will all burn off dont worry bout that.
for the noice you are hearing. this is most likely tpo be coming from the rocker arms hitting the calve springs. take the little covers off the head , put the piston at TDC on the intake stroke and check your valve spring clearences (should be .003 - .005)
for the breakin just take a short ride at low throttle (15 mins)
let cool
go for another ride at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle(20mins)
let cool
go fpr another at 1/4 to 1/2 throttle (30 mins)
let cool
then go ahead and try her out
JhallettEX
03-09-2002, 06:40 PM
I did the work myself, Isnt the valve clearance .04 and .05?
330EXman
03-09-2002, 07:29 PM
naw it is suposed to be right at .003. if it is allitlle off it will make more and more noise. just allitle will make a noticable noice
JhallettEX
03-09-2002, 07:58 PM
My manual says .004 and .005 the valve clearance, Can anyone else confirm if this is right?
Just run what the 400Ex manual says or whatever the specs for the xr cam said, if you got a sheet with it, anyway.
330EXMan,.003 is closer to what my clearances are for my cam...are you sure your not telling him the clearences for the 300ex or your bike?
400exRacerX
03-09-2002, 10:14 PM
Oh man.......idling it for 30 min is the worst thing you could do. I would definatly go back to your dealer and give them a ration of *****. I am getting ready to install my 416 this week oh yeahhhhh!
330EXman
03-10-2002, 05:54 PM
heres the deal!
i know in the manual i have it says .003-.005. now in you reply you said you thought it was .05. if you have it at 5 hundreths thats your problem.
now if you just made a typo then this could be the problem.
when you use a feeler guage to make the correct measurment you should put the feeler guage in between the rocker and the valve head and finger tighten the little adjuster screw. then when ajusted right the feeler guage should have friction when moved around you should beable to pull it out and reincert it inbetween, now once you adjust them all right go around and recheck them all.
after allittle rideor a couple of hours later recheck them. make sure that the feeler guage isnt in there so tight that its real hard to move it around and also when trying to do this make sure the hole thing is lever dont pull up but rather move sise to side to try to determine if the gap is correct.
if they are adjusted right i think that its due to the high compression piston cause mine does that to but its not really loud (the tappin noise that is.)
later man Jay
beerock
03-10-2002, 10:40 PM
All, I want to ask is what oil did they put in when they put the motor back together???????????????????????????
if it was synthetic you could have screwed your motot up from the start.
synthetic oil does not allow the pistons rings to seat in properly.
ALWAYS use a dino based oil for breaking in anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
once it is broken in, it is always a good idea to switch over to synthetic.
the thing is, that dino based oils allow the metals to wear at a faster rate than a synthetic.
the synthetic oil does not allow the motor to "Wear in" properly because it actually lubricates to well. there fore wearing the rings and cylinder walls abnormally, which in the long run will make the motor smoke earlier near its death bed, or "rebuild"
hope this info helps.
If I were you, I would go back and ***** HARDCORE.
ask them what kind of oil they used to break it in.
before you *****, if they say they used synthetic, thats when you have every right to flip out.
Originally posted by 330EXman
heres the deal!
i know in the manual i have it says .003-.005. now in you reply you said you thought it was .05. if you have it at 5 hundreths thats your problem.
now if you just made a typo then this could be the problem.
Your specs are for the 300EX. My 400EX specs are .004 and .005. Not much room for debate here....
Eric
PsychoDave
03-11-2002, 11:58 AM
i am about to re-do my engine (416 kit)......i run synthetic now....so would you guys suggest conventional oil during the break-in then go back to synthetic???
Yup,,,,that's exactly what I did,,except I ran 10W-40,,for about 3 hours,,replaced it with 10W-40 again,,and will go back to maxima full synthetic after about 5 more hours. You could use just the 10W-40 once and be done with it,,if ya want,,I just had the extra oil sittin around..:D
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