Degree Key

[Rdhanded2]

I am an idiot, so can someone explain to me what this does. Again, be gentle with the insults; I take full responsibility for my lack in knowledge.

Also, how hard are they to install? opinions on them etc.....

[ewalker302]

It advances your timing 6 degrees.
You can install it by yourself w/hand tools, but it's much easier w/2 people, or an impact wrench to get the flywheel nut off.

I think it's worth the 20$.

:bandit:

[T.Hopp]

To explain a little more. If I am correct; It allows the cylinder to create more compression before the spark plug fires. This higher compression creates higher running temps also.

[northeast400]

I found it useless

[ewalker302]

Originally posted by T.Hopp
To explain a little more. If I am correct; It allows the cylinder to create more compression before the spark plug fires. This higher compression creates higher running temps also.

This is correct, the engine fires before the piston is at top dead center. The key raises the compession slightly by advancing the timing bringing the piston a little closer to TDC.

:bandit:

[Rdhanded2]

I appreciate all the info guys. Anyone have one and like it?

[brandonpeake]

i didnt ride my bike enough before installing it to know how much power it adds
but on my banshee it was extremely noticeable

[Mikey]

I Have a brand new one, never installed with instructions but no flywheel puller (bolt) for $15.

[swamprider7]

I put one on my stock compression 400 and i saw a gain in the botom end. well worth the $20 bucks.

[EXDUNER127]

I saw one one the shelf at my local shop, debating whether to buy it....is it best with a stock motor or a built motor, i remember someone saying something about once you build up your motor you dont feel it as much?

[SnellCRP]

Originally posted by Rdhanded2
I am an idiot, so can someone explain to me what this does. Again, be gentle with the insults; I take full responsibility for my lack in knowledge.

Also, how hard are they to install? opinions on them etc.....


Your not an idiot! If you have never had any experience with timing why would anyone expect you to know anything about it. Call yourself inexperienced.

When you install a 6 degree flywheel key it means that the initial setting for the spark timing is that the spark at the plug occurs 6 degrees before the engine reaches top dead center.

Ok assuming that compression ratio, cylinder fill and mixture strength are equal the TIME taken for the air/fuel mixture to fully ignite and burn is the same regardless of engine speed. However, as the RPM increases the available time for complete burn to take place is equally less; therefore, you have to start burning the mixture earlier in order for it to push on the piston at the right time. This is why timing is advanced.

Too much initial timing and the burning mixture hits the piston as it rises which causes pinging. Too little and the flame front reaches the piston too late and does not do a good job of pushing the piston down and the engine will run like "$hit".

Usually racing engines are not designed to have peak performance at low RPM. Because of extreme profile race cams with long duration the low RPM efficiency of the engine is seriously affected. You can somewhat compensate for this with initial timing, but you have to be careful because you are also increasing overall timing which could damage your engine. The amount of initial timing is dependent on the amount of cam duration, and what RPM it takes for the engine to idle.

The initial timing and timing curve have a great deal of affect on the tractability of the engine as well as the amount of power it makes and where it makes it.

Hope that clears it up for you. Now you can't say your inexperienced anymore. ;)

[EXDUNER127]

IS IT WORTH IT?

[pa_countryboy]

I like mine gave it a little more bottom end and it revs quicker

[EXDUNER127]

Good enough, i will get it!

[brandonpeake]

no with a built motor it will make it run too hot is why its not reccomended with it

[EXDUNER127]

up to how built will it get too hot?

[brandonpeake]

it all dpends i dont know for sure, it would depend on what octane gas u run, would u have an oil cooler, in general with a 416 you are fine but wioth a 440 it would need to be factored in to the motor,
also u might want to look into getting the flywheel lightened

[EXDUNER127]

Flywheel lightened?

Where do you go about doing that and what does that do?
Can you do that with a stock motor?

[brandonpeake]

rocky ridge racing does it for like $80 i think, it makes u rev faster but also slow down revs fadter also so its harder to "lug" it around, most people have got some motor mods but i dont know ive having it down while i get my 416 done so, i think u would be alot happier with it while doing it with a power and torque increase as well

[SnellCRP]

Originally posted by brandonpeake
no with a built motor it will make it run too hot is why its not reccomended with it

The increase in initial timing will create more heat just as a higher compression piston or thin head gaskets would which will decrease reliability, but you decrease reliability anytime you modify a motor beyond stock.

When you use fuel with a higher motor octane # its ability to resist preignition and detonation is greater which is why you would be required to run a better fuel. I believe most engine builders will tell you that timing is a good way to increase power provided you run the correct fuel. I'm not sure who told you not to advance timing, but if you want more power it is recommended. Most race quads and bike out there are running motors with timing modifications.

Having your flywheel lightened does not actually increase HP/torque if you dyno a motor with a stock flywheel against the same motor with a lighter flywheel they will dyno the same other than that the motor with the lighter rotating mass (lighter flywheel) will get into its power band quicker than the one with more rotating mass. It is a trade off though as a lighter flywheel will increase the chances of stalling the motor. Many GNCC quads and bikes will add flywheel weights to reduce those chances off stalling.

I personally have a 11:1 440ex with a .036 squish, an advanced flywheel key, and a TC CDI box that I have ran with VP-C12 fuel for 3 years with no problems.

[matt6951]

where can you get one for 20 bucks?

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by matt6951
where can you get one for 20 bucks?

CD, the flashing Phone # at the top of your screen.

[300EXRD]

WHERE CAN I GET ONE I HAVE A 1998 300EX

[EXDUNER127]

www.sparksracing.com

[Florida400EX]

Can I run a sparks key? I think my GT thunder CDI box increases the timing, so the Sparks one would increse it too much, am I correct?

thanks

[EXDUNER127]

Your cdi box increases your rpm range not your timing, so yes you can use one. The cdi just increases your rpm range 1000 more!

[Florida400EX]

Originally posted by EXDUNER127
Your cdi box increases your rpm range not your timing, so yes you can use one. The cdi just increases your rpm range 1000 more!

but I've been hearing that the GT Thunder CDI boxes also increse your timing by like 6 degrees. :confused2

[tigerdog]

a degree key cannot increase compression!!!
it makes the ignition fire 6 degreeas earlier in the stroke of the crank shaft it should be a top end benafit.

[cals400ex]

i am pretty sure you can NOT use that key with the gt thunder box. that box will advance timing 6 degrees. just email gt thunder. he gets back with you pretty quick.

[300EXRD]

HEY I JUST INSTALLED MY DEGREE KEY AND TH ENGINE ENGINE GET HOT ANY BODY ELSE HAVE THAT PROBLEM WILL IT HURT ANY THING?

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by cals400ex
i am pretty sure you can NOT use that key with the gt thunder box. that box will advance timing 6 degrees. just email gt thunder. he gets back with you pretty quick.


nope engine will literally explode

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by 300EXRD
HEY I JUST INSTALLED MY DEGREE KEY AND TH ENGINE ENGINE GET HOT ANY BODY ELSE HAVE THAT PROBLEM WILL IT HURT ANY THING?




OOOKKKK, what do you base this theory on, motors run hot that's a fact, but how exactly do you know that's it's running too hot, are you sure it's not all in your head, what other mods do you have done to the motor besides the key