anyone use gt thunder's rear link

[brandonpeake]

This rear link for the 400ex is designed to replace the front link of the rear linkage for those who are running 20 inch rear tires and a stock rear shock.It will allow you to lower your bike to a very popular ride height for XC racing as well as adding extra wheel travel.

$74.95


http://www.gtthunder.com/400exRearLink.jpg


seems like a good part for a cheap price, and it allows u to keep your stock rear shock, would this do similiar thingds as the elka rear link?

[K_Fulk]

Its a way to lower the rear end for xc. If your to cheap to buy a zps shock.

I doubt it would work like the elka link just for the fact you use a lot better shock with the elka linkage.

[brandonpeake]

im getting my rear shock rebuilt and i think im going to try it out, yeah im on limited funds, cant spend all my cash on shocks etc, sao i think its an alternitive, alot better than stock and the elka linkabe is around 300 or so so i think its a fair price also

[K_Fulk]

I thought about getting one if he made one for 18 inch tires. The pep l.m. shocks sit high on the rear if you have the sag set right.

But yeah its a alternative but its not gonna work like the elka setup.

[brandonpeake]

oh i totally agree but i was looking at it this way the link is 80 and revalve rear stock shock runs around 325 so for a little over 400 you could have a nice setup and that would just buy the elka rear linkage and have about 100 left over
just trying to see if anyone has used it and how it worked, it s not on the same par as the elka b/c of the quality of their shocks over stock but its alot better than stock

[UglyMotha™]

yup i've got one setting on my dresser as we speak, but if you use just the rear link lazarus said i will be constantly bottoming out when i jump so he's goin to revalve and respring my rear shock if i remember correctly he said he's goin to replace my stock spring with two different rate springs so when all's said and done i'll have a pretty awesome setup so i've been told i'm goin to his shop maybe saturday if he's around i'll talk to him more about it then


oh and if your goin to get your shock revalved and get this link just have lazarus do all of it for you if you want everything to match up and work to it full capability, not to mention he's cheaper than the price you just stated above

[K_Fulk]

Sounds like it will be a good setup. I figured it would need some type of shock work to work corectly though.

[UglyMotha™]

yup seems like there is always a little twist

[brandonpeake]

yeah i had planned on getting him to revalve my front tcs shocks and the rear together

[dirtmomma]

Just wondering about how far this will lower the rear w/ 18" tires?? Looking for something for flattrackin the 400

[K_Fulk]

I emailed laz about it back in december, He said it would be to much for 18 inch tires. But he could make one for 18 inch tires.
If you do a search i made a thread about this link in december and copied the email he sent me in there.

[UglyMotha™]

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid107/p8e584297859614d82912d29dec2785e0/f953a8ec.jpg

[brandonpeake]

lets see some pics installed when u get it?

[UglyMotha™]

oh definantly i'm interested to see it together cause it looks like some drunk guy programed the machine to run that piece :huh

[Toadz400]

Is it just me, or does that linkage seem like it'd be a little too weak?

[UglyMotha™]

actually it's quite abit beefier than the stock one, i don't forsee that one breaking before the stocker :o ;)

[Toadz400]

Originally posted by UglyMotha™
actually it's quite abit beefier than the stock one, i don't forsee that one breaking before the stocker :o ;)

Oh okay, my bad...for some reason it just kinda looks weak, I don't know why...it just does. But I'll take your word on it:cool:

[Cannonball08]

Do you have to put bearings in it yourself? Does anyone have the link to where I can get one of those?

[UglyMotha™]

yup they come bearingless and here's the number 330-674-7122

[86atc250r]

First off --- Let's clear up what this linkage is - it's not just a way of lowering your quad if you're too cheap to buy a "ZPS" shock.

This linkage setup actually works very well in conjunction with a "ZPS" style shock.

First we must understand what the problem is with the 400EX rear suspension.

Most simplisticly - the shock's travel sits too high in the chassis. What does that mean?

It means that to cure your quad's kicking problem you'll need to move the rear travel lower in the chassis. You can't do this by simply installing a ZPS shock. In fact, if you buy an aftermarket shock, you will likely compound the problem since most aftermarket shocks are longer than stock.

There are different cures depending on your setup - all have advantages and disadvantages.

You can install a new linkage such as GT Thunders - this is easy, quick and doesn't require any modification to your frame or welding skills. The disadvantage is that you must use a stock bodied shock and send it off to have it properly setup for this linkage combo.

The stock bodied shock will fade faster and require more frequent rebuilds than a comparable aftermarket shock - but for those of you on a budget - this setup will get you MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better overall performance than simply spending $900 on an aftermarket rear shock and bolting it on.

The next option would be moving your upper shock mount - this may work for you depending on what some of your quad's measurements are. Axis has made this setup popular recently. You don't necessarily need an Axis shock to do this - you just need an understanding of what you're doing. The disadvantage of this setup is it makes permanent changes to your frame, requires cutting and welding, and once done, it will not be fun if you change your mind on which shock you want to run.

The last option would be to run a shorter shock - the first problem here is you will likely not find a shock with the correct parameters to work properly. It may also not give enough travel to perform properly with the front end.

How do these changes perform?

Night and day. We've got one quad with GT Thunder's link setup & shocks setup by him - we've also got one quad with the upper mount relocated using an aftermarket shock and stock linkage.

The quad setup by GT Thunder with his linkage is awesome to ride - no more kicking, no more bottomming over things that shouldn't bottom the rear, and better traction in the chop.

The quad is a ton more fun to ride agressively and can be ridden *much* faster on the track while better control.

The quad with the relocated mount - it's really an unfair comparision at this point becuase it's shocks are in desperate need of rebuild - but results are very similar. When attacking a whooped out section it no longer kicks, it no longer bottoms on things it shouldn't, and it also hooks up better and stays much more stable (since it's not kicking anymore).

If you have a 450R you need to be paying attention here as well - the 450R has the same issue with the rear that the 400EX has, although not as profound --- Good news is it can be fixed the same way. More on that later.

[UglyMotha™]

awesome review i know i could never top that explanation :cool:

[brandonpeake]

well i had thought some of the other opinions wasnt right but i wasnt exactly sure or exactly sure how to explain it
thanks 86atc250r

[86atc250r]

In re-reading this thread I see many comments about wanting a linkage for 18" tires.

One thing to keep in mind is you're less likely to need a linkage with 18" rear tires, depending on the fronts you'll be running. The only way to be certain is to perform some detailed measuring of the quad, it's shocks, and it's suspension travel.

The GTT linkage does two things - lowers your travel (which is not the same as lowering the quad). It also changes the leverage ratio of the system.

Someone may ask - why can't I just run a lowering linkage and do the same thing?

Lowering linkages replace the wrong part of the linkage. They alter the leverage ratio and more importantly they move the progressive movement of the linkage system beyond the parameters of the suspension's travel - simply meaning that you'll end up too soft & the shock will have to be built too firm to provide a good ride and good bottoming resistance.

As far as the Elka linkage for the 400EX? I haven't seen anything about it that suggests it's any better than stock other than it's prettier. Although I must admit that I haven't measured one, so maybe there's something I missed. In examining it, the important features seem to be the same or at least very similar to stock.

Originally posted by 86atc250r


As far as the Elka linkage for the 400EX? I haven't seen anything about it that suggests it's any better than stock other than it's prettier.

The location of one of the pivot points in the elka is located in a different spot and It puts the shock in a more vertical position compared to the stocker. I also think the elka linkage is a tad bit longer..

[brandonpeake]

The GTT linkage does two things - lowers your travel (which is not the same as lowering the quad). It also changes the leverage ratio of the system.

i thought the gt thunder linkage gave u more wheel travel?

[DantheEXman]

so how much is it to rebuild a stock rear shock and get the linkage all from GT Thunder?

[brandonpeake]

i dont know, email laz or call.the site is
www.gtthunder.com

[86atc250r]

That appears to set things up badly.

I have an Elka rear shock and you're right, it is MUCH longer than stock (almost an inch if memory serves me correctly) - which causes some serious issues with the location of the travel.

By what I see there, the leverage ratio against the shock is being increased (which will give you more travel), but it's at the expense of further aggravating travel height issue.

Overall travel is not the problem with the 400EX - it's the travel location.

Originally posted by 86atc250r
That appears to set things up badly.

I have an Elka rear shock and you're right, it is MUCH longer than stock (almost an inch if memory serves me correctly) - which causes some serious issues with the location of the travel.

By what I see there, the leverage ratio against the shock is being increased (which will give you more travel), but it's at the expense of further aggravating travel height issue.

Overall travel is not the problem with the 400EX - it's the travel location.

Well I can say elkas LT setup improves a 400ex's ride by 5000000% :D

[86atc250r]

I was never very happy with my Elka setup, I have a much better idea of the reasons why now than I did back then.

After having owned practically every setup on the market - including 4 different OEM rebuilds and several aftermarket bodies, Axis, Elka, and PEP - I can honestly say I have not had even one of them compare to what I've got now after having adjusted the linkage and set travel locations properly.

I'd be very interested to see some numbers from someone that has an Elka setup. If Elka is using a shorter rear shock with this linkage setup, I can see it being beneficial - if they're using a longer shock with this setup, I can see it hurting someone - seriously.

If you look at their linkage and think about what it's doing, you can see that for a given shock length the quad will sit higher with their link. The longer the shock, the higher the quad's travel will sit in the chassis and the more profound the problem will be.

If you have this setup, sometime when you're doing maintenance, measure the length of the shock when fully extended (eye to eye), then measure the exposed shaft length (measure to under the bumper where metal to metal contact would occur)

Next, subtract that shaft length from the overall length (gives you your compressed shock length).

With those two numbers, set the quad (shocks removed) with the "compressed shock" distance between the upper and lower shock mounts - measure the frame to ground clearance. When doing this make sure the front end is also setting at the same frame height or your numbers will be skewed.

Do the same with the fully extended shock length.

I would be very interested in seeing those numbers. This will tell you your overall suspension travel and where the travel is at in relation to the chassis's position (which is VERY important).

Both the 400EX and 450R, by design, have a tendency to have their travel too high, and as I said before, a longer rear shock compounds the problem - a linkage position that creates a higher overall chassis height compounds it further.

[UglyMotha™]

http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/pullin%20out%20hair.gif

Originally posted by 86atc250r
I was never very happy with my Elka setup, I have a much better idea of the reasons why now than I did back then.

After having owned practically every setup on the market - including 4 different OEM rebuilds and several aftermarket bodies, Axis, Elka, and PEP - I can honestly say I have not had even one of them compare to what I've got now after having adjusted the linkage and set travel locations properly.

I'd be very interested to see some numbers from someone that has an Elka setup. If Elka is using a shorter rear shock with this linkage setup, I can see it being beneficial - if they're using a longer shock with this setup, I can see it hurting someone - seriously.

If you look at their linkage and think about what it's doing, you can see that for a given shock length the quad will sit higher with their link. The longer the shock, the higher the quad's travel will sit in the chassis and the more profound the problem will be.

If you have this setup, sometime when you're doing maintenance, measure the length of the shock when fully extended (eye to eye), then measure the exposed shaft length (measure to under the bumper where metal to metal contact would occur)

Next, subtract that shaft length from the overall length (gives you your compressed shock length).

With those two numbers, set the quad (shocks removed) with the "compressed shock" distance between the upper and lower shock mounts - measure the frame to ground clearance. When doing this make sure the front end is also setting at the same frame height or your numbers will be skewed.

Do the same with the fully extended shock length.

I would be very interested in seeing those numbers. This will tell you your overall suspension travel and where the travel is at in relation to the chassis's position (which is VERY important).

Both the 400EX and 450R, by design, have a tendency to have their travel too high, and as I said before, a longer rear shock compounds the problem - a linkage position that creates a higher overall chassis height compounds it further.

The shock I have on the rear is a standard triple rate, compression and rebound adjustable shock. If I called right now and ordered one it would be the same length. Gabe I know you've run elka so the rear elka you had is what I have. I don't think it is shorter than stock or any other rear shock they would sell for a 400ex.

The 2 springs are replaced and the top SSD spring is replaced by a larger/stronger spring.

I've not rode on too many other rear shocks besides a rebuilt stocker, the rear elka without the LT linkage and springs and the new setup that I'm running now.

Hitting a 12 inch deep rut in 4th gear in a feild and not having the rear end kick up sounds impossible, but it's not because I can do it now without ever worring about going over the bars from the shocks rebound nor does it hit and bottom out real hard.. I can say the setup works and works well..


Oh yeah what setup are you running now Gabe??? Shocks & linkage.

[redrunner]

Man I love this stuff, tech talk. 86atc250r, Gabe if I might use your name. What a great explanation, this give a very clear picture of how a properly set up suspension should work for a given situation. Obviously this is not something learned in a book other than the mathmatics of it, so experience and experimentation draws these (your) conclusions I assume. Like I said "I love this ch*t":cool:

[Bart]

Any thoughts on why Honda designed the 400ex (and 450R) with the rear suspension set up like they did? I would assume that they have some experience with rear suspension and would have done some homework. I can't believe that it would have cost more (initially - obviously more expensive to change now) for them to implement something closer to GT Thunder's setup.

[Ex_Rider43]

good explanation there 86atc250r. if GT thunder ever comes out with a link for 18 inch tires ill buy one and have my shock rebuilt by elka.

when sending the shock for rebuild what do I have to tell them at elka??

[86atc250r]

"Fred" - Not sure why Honda set them up the way they did. Easy enough to deal with though once you know what the problem is.

Rico - Right now I'm running a PEP rear shock body, it's a touch longer than stock, but it's a good starting point because of it's 5/8" shaft, and large body - it's also compression and rebound adjustable. I have moved the upper shock mount to locate the travel in the proper position - if memory serves me correctly, I had to move it a touch over an inch - doing this also required that I cut the subframe front cross support and weld a couple tabs to the frame to make it strong again.

Up front I run a pair of old Works bodies that I've had a some custom work done to - they have spherical bearings at both ends, 5/8" shafts, a triple rate spring setup (top spring just heavy enough to support the quad's weight), aluminum spring seperators, different pistons, and valving setup for me.

Right now I have almost exactly 10" of travel front and rear with a stock swingarm and stock control arms.

For my 450R - I will likely have some new lower control arms built so I can use my 400EX longtravel setup with PEP 19" shocks - and I'll probably put a GT Thunder 450R link for 18" tires on the rear and leave the stock rear shock.

450R #2 will get the cross country treatment - probably using stock shocks all around (or maybe one of my sets of 16" PEPs up front) and a GT Thunder link XC 450R link. This quad will eventually replace my current 400EX race quad.

One interesting note on the 450R - it's rear shock has a 5/8" shaft - stock.

[Ex_Rider43]

so GTT are making links for 18inch tires now??

[86atc250r]

He's getting ready to make a batch for the 450R - not sure if he's doing any for the 400EX.

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by ex_rider52
good explanation there 86atc250r. if GT thunder ever comes out with a link for 18 inch tires ill buy one and have my shock rebuilt by elka.

when sending the shock for rebuild what do I have to tell them at elka??



why wouldn't you send it to laz, in my opinion that would be the smart thing to do seeing that he's the one that designed the link he's goin to know the best way to set your shock up

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by ex_rider52
so GTT are making links for 18inch tires now??


yah yesterday he mentioned he was in the process of making one for the 450r but never said anything bout the ex

[hon400ex]

does any know if this will work on a 250r?

Laz came over and checked out my rear Elka setup and said it's the best setup he's ever seen....:cool:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Rico
Laz came over and checked out my rear Elka setup and said it's the best setup he's ever seen....:cool:

yup sure did:cool:

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by Rico
Laz came over and checked out my rear Elka setup and said it's the best setup he's ever seen....:cool:



yah sure just rub it in :mad:

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Rico
Laz came over and checked out my rear Elka setup and said it's the best setup he's ever seen....:cool:


you do realize it was pitch black outside when he looked at it:devil:

[UglyMotha™]

LMAO, now that's hilarious :p

[Tommy 17]

Originally posted by Pappy
you do realize it was pitch black outside when he looked at it:devil:


he did have a flash light:p

[86atc250r]

Originally posted by Rico
Laz came over and checked out my rear Elka setup and said it's the best setup he's ever seen....:cool:

The word I'm getting is the shock they're using for this linkage setup is not the same as the one I had - it has a shorter compressed length, which will help the issues I talked about.

The Elka shock I had, had a longer compressed length - if mixed with that linkage setup, I believe it would cause some very serious issuses.

Too bad you're not closer - I'd love to measure your quad out and see what numbers the rear suspension is hitting.

[Quadworks]

So what exactly would I gain by using this linkage with my stock shock?

Originally posted by 86atc250r
The word I'm getting is the shock they're using for this linkage setup is not the same as the one I had - it has a shorter compressed length, which will help the issues I talked about.

The Elka shock I had, had a longer compressed length - if mixed with that linkage setup, I believe it would cause some very serious issuses.

Too bad you're not closer - I'd love to measure your quad out and see what numbers the rear suspension is hitting.

Come out to a GNCC Gabe...:D

I believe patte440 races in your area,, look him up..

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by Quadworks
So what exactly would I gain by using this linkage with my stock shock?


read the thread :o :huh




First off --- Let's clear up what this linkage is - it's not just a way of lowering your quad if you're too cheap to buy a "ZPS" shock.

This linkage setup actually works very well in conjunction with a "ZPS" style shock.

First we must understand what the problem is with the 400EX rear suspension.

Most simplisticly - the shock's travel sits too high in the chassis. What does that mean?

It means that to cure your quad's kicking problem you'll need to move the rear travel lower in the chassis. You can't do this by simply installing a ZPS shock. In fact, if you buy an aftermarket shock, you will likely compound the problem since most aftermarket shocks are longer than stock.

There are different cures depending on your setup - all have advantages and disadvantages.

You can install a new linkage such as GT Thunders - this is easy, quick and doesn't require any modification to your frame or welding skills. The disadvantage is that you must use a stock bodied shock and send it off to have it properly setup for this linkage combo.

The stock bodied shock will fade faster and require more frequent rebuilds than a comparable aftermarket shock - but for those of you on a budget - this setup will get you MUCH, MUCH, MUCH better overall performance than simply spending $900 on an aftermarket rear shock and bolting it on.

The next option would be moving your upper shock mount - this may work for you depending on what some of your quad's measurements are. Axis has made this setup popular recently. You don't necessarily need an Axis shock to do this - you just need an understanding of what you're doing. The disadvantage of this setup is it makes permanent changes to your frame, requires cutting and welding, and once done, it will not be fun if you change your mind on which shock you want to run.

The last option would be to run a shorter shock - the first problem here is you will likely not find a shock with the correct parameters to work properly. It may also not give enough travel to perform properly with the front end.

How do these changes perform?

Night and day. We've got one quad with GT Thunder's link setup & shocks setup by him - we've also got one quad with the upper mount relocated using an aftermarket shock and stock linkage.

The quad setup by GT Thunder with his linkage is awesome to ride - no more kicking, no more bottomming over things that shouldn't bottom the rear, and better traction in the chop.

The quad is a ton more fun to ride agressively and can be ridden *much* faster on the track while better control.

The quad with the relocated mount - it's really an unfair comparision at this point becuase it's shocks are in desperate need of rebuild - but results are very similar. When attacking a whooped out section it no longer kicks, it no longer bottoms on things it shouldn't, and it also hooks up better and stays much more stable (since it's not kicking anymore).

[Quadworks]

Sorry about that I kind of flew right over that part. About how much lower will this make it sit with just the linkage alone?

[quader400]

ok soon im going to be rebuilding my stock rear shock so its going to be an elka dual rate with the top spring ssd. if i were to buy either the elka or gt thunder rear linkage and i have 18 would this cause problems for me? wich linkage would work better for me for my setup and keep in mind all i do is mx? any help appriciated thank you

[cdalejef]

what do you mean you would have 18?
The Elka linkage will not work with a stock shock.

[K_Fulk]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
what do you mean you would have 18?
The Elka linkage will not work with a stock shock.

He meant with 18 inch tires.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by K_Fulk
He meant with 18 inch tires. OIC, GT Thunder does not recommend running 18" tires with his linkage.

[Out_Sider]

can someone clear this up for me...um, why is 18in rears too much for the linkage?

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by Out_Sider
can someone clear this up for me...um, why is 18in rears too much for the linkage? It sets the frame to low to the ground. Not good when you bottom out.

[660RaptorRider]

how much lower will it set with 20" tires? it will prolly be around the same as 18" right?:confused:

[UglyMotha™]

he's setting mine up to ride between 9 and 8.5 inches, that's with me on the bike and the distance is taken from the ground to the bottom of the frame back by the pegs this is with 20" tires

[Fuchs42]

86atc250r dude your *** should be in the Honda plant right now figuring this shiet out. I will vouch for you if you apply to work there.

[quader400]

so if i have 18 inch rears with an elka rebuilt rear shock i should not get either of these links? thanks

Originally posted by quader400
so if i have 18 inch rears with an elka rebuilt rear shock i should not get either of these links? thanks

I'd say the elka LT kit would work just fine with 18 inch tires. But the LT kit from elka is more than just linkage..

[Pappy]

correct me if im wrong, but Laz designed this linkage for those who dont or cant spend the $900 on a rear shock and $200 for the linkage kit. the gt thunder linkage will allow for a more suitable ride height with a stock or rebuilt stock shock with 20 inch tires.

[86atc250r]

Correct - the ride height is not the issue though. Travel location is the issue. His link also sets up the leverage ratio to make the rear's travel match the amount of travel offered by most aftermarket front shocks.

Lazarus's link setup is for the stock shock only.

If you question what you should do for a given set of tires, or a aftermarket setup, you'll need to break out the note pad, the tools (to remove the shocks and handle the quad with it's shocks removed), and a tape measure.

[SGA]

Like most of us, I cant plunk out near a grand right now on a rear Elka shock and linkage. I do want one, its just not in the budget right now. I know it works well, I have seen Rico race on it, and talked to him afterwards.
I have Elka triple rate SSD's on the front (love them) and a Elka stock shock rebuild kit on the back of my 400EX.
I talked with Lazarus today at GT Thunder and will be buying his rear link kit from him at the SC GNCC race next weekend. We also talked about if and how it will work with my Elka stock shock rebuild kit.
I will update everyone on how it goes after I get back from SC GNCC race and install it.

[UglyMotha™]

welp picked up my shocks yesterday, here's the rear i won't be able to bolt them up till tomorow and it's goin to be bout 2 weeks before i get any seat time so i'm goin to have to impatiently wait but i'm eager to see how it performs which without a doubt in my mind she'll perform awesome because lets just say after talking to lazarus the past couple times this dude really knows his stuff so in my book he gets two thumbs up and he doesn't just know his stuff bout quads i think we spent more time yesterday talking bout my truck project then the quad :huh oh well, i'll get ya guys a review soon as i have it



http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/p57845c32eda41fb4c51671fa36bdc5b8/f92e4506.jpg

[UglyMotha™]

installed

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/pb1d168fd3de18dec22ad18c91e8c155c/f9293dcf.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/p5d95ccc7a3a5fee8aefdf58a91243eae/f9293dcc.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/pcde693f478d1c205cfd45625431abe0a/f9293dc7.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/p789aa659a8c830b5b89ae2cf198695f6/f9293d48.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid109/pb67a4dc3ac01bced6c13ee42eaac4f67/f9293d4c.jpg

[SGA]

That looks better than I thought. I'm picking up my link kit this weekend from Lazarus at the GNCC race. Maybe some GT Thunder stickers also. ( Hint hint ;) )
I know what I want out of the rear travel and ride.
Experimenting with springs, ride height, and adjustments, I've gone from decent to worse, to good and all in between.
When I get back, i'll install it, pics and report to follow.

[boogiechile]

hey Gabe, I am curious as to the stock numbers on the ex. How high is the frame in the rear when the shock is fully compressed? I know that this will change with tire size so I guess with 20 inch tires. What is the bottomed frame height with the GTT linkage and 20 inch tires? what do you think is the optimal number here?

I build and set up my own swing arms, a arms and frames. this is not on an ex though and i use a nolink rear. I usually put a couple of 2x4s under each end of the frame to set it at 1 1/2 inches. Then I build my arms to where the absolute compressed length of the shock stops the suspension at the 1 1/2 inch height with the tire I will run on it with no air in them to simulate the compression in them on landing. I set the shock location to get the motion ratio I want with this bottomed height. I will usually try to use a long shock to maximize the travel for the ratio and then raise the top mount to get the right bottom height. One of the biggest problem I have is that if I get a little higher on the motion ratio to get a lot of travel all this extra travel goes to droop if the bottoming height is kept right and this requires more sag to get the ride height down.

You posts are some of the best and I am usually in agreement with you. Any thoughts you have?

[cjpoole1]

So if someone has a rebuilt stock shock and they get the GT linkage, will the shock have to be revalved again for it to work properly?

[Quadworks]

I got my linkage ordered. It should be here any day. Can't wait to see what a difference it makes.

Originally posted by Quadworks
I got my linkage ordered. It should be here any day. Can't wait to see what a difference it makes.

Did you send your rear shock to be revalved??

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by cjpoole1
So if someone has a rebuilt stock shock and they get the GT linkage, will the shock have to be revalved again for it to work properly?



yup, anytime you mess with the geometry it will change how the shock reacts

[Quadworks]

I haven't sent my shock out yet. I want to wait and see what it sits and rides like first before I do. I will probably at the same time esend my Works shocks out to De Risi to get the millenium valve kit installed front and rear. It should then ride like a Cadillac!:blah:

[86atc250r]

It will be too soft if you don't do anything to the rear shock.

Sending the rear to Derisi probably isn't the smartest thing to do when you're using a setup from someone else that he's likely unfamiliar with.

If you must, make SURE he knows the leverage ratios on the rear shock are not stock or you will end up with a setup that is still too soft & that you're likely unhappy with.

If he does not ask for the actual bottommed and topped out heights he will not be able to set it up correctly. If he does and you give him good measurements, then he'll probably do fine, although there may be some trial and error with the valving since he probably hasn't set up many (if any) for this linkage before.

Or send the rear shock to Laz and have him set it up to go with the link he designed. <-- that seems to be the most logical thing to do...;)

[86atc250r]

That's what I was getting at :)

[86atc250r]

BoogieChili -

How did you come up with 1.5"?

That's what Lazarus recommended I set up my rear for & that's what he shoots for with his linkage setup.

I have not done any real organized testing of my own with different bottommed out heights other than riding various existing setups that were all greater than 1.5. So far, the 1.5" setup works the best on the 400EX.

I'd have to dig out my numbers for stock, but with my PEP body rear shock the rear compressed height was somewhere between 3.5 and 4".

It's really amazing how much difference a couple inches can make in the rear handling of these machines...

[Quadworks]

So how much price wise will it be for Laz to set my stock rear shock up to work with his linkage?

[86atc250r]

If I remember correctly he charges $250 for respringing and revalving.

From what he's done for me in the past, the springs are a dual rate setup.

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
If I remember correctly he charges $250 for respringing and revalving.

From what he's done for me in the past, the springs are a dual rate setup.




yup, correct, the picture i posted of my shock has been resprung and valved by lazarus, it's a dual rate and from the bounce time i've had on it so far in the garage, it's pretty impressive, i definantly wouldn't send your shock to someone else to do that really wouldn't be smart, because there not goin to be familar with the geometry of the link so it's not goin to perform at it's peak performance

[Quadworks]

After I receive it and check it out I will get ahold of him and let him set the rear up. Thanks for the info!

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Quadworks
After I receive it and check it out I will get ahold of him and let him set the rear up. Thanks for the info!

anyone one bet he installs the link on a stock shock:confused:

[SGA]

Originally posted by Pappy
anyone one bet he installs the link on a stock shock:confused:

He prob will. I would, just to try it. Thats how I am and when it didnt work, i'd send the shock off to Lazuras at GT Thunder.:)
Also, If yer gonna get the link, have the guy that knows the link setup your shock.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by SGA
He prob will. I would, just to try it. Thats how I am and when it didnt work, i'd send the shock off to Lazuras at GT Thunder.:)
.

i geuss im weird, i wouldnt waste my time installing and then removing. get her done up and ride on:cool:

[SGA]

Well, sometime $$ is not in abundance and ya have to do a bit at a time.:(

[boogiechile]

86atc, I decided on 1.5 inches simply because I wanted to use all the travel I could without bottoming the frame. I figured 1.5 inches was enough clearance for most ruts,clods and junk, especially on a mx track. So I started using 1.5 just cause thats what I thought would be optimal. Later I was talking to an engineer from works and got to discussing suspension on quads and he said it was best to use 1.5 in most cases and that they would design compressed lengths to get that on quads that did not have problems with interference or ball joint bind on the frt. So I felt supported in my decision. I think he was primarily involved in dessert setups though.

3.5 to 4 seems like a lot to me. Sounds like raising the upper mount is the best way to go on the ex. Lowering the linkage mount works the same but hangs down lower and shortening the shock compressed length usually cost you some stroke. Of course most guys on here would have to go with the linkage since it is a bolt on and requires no fab work.

That elka link seemed to only change the motion ratio from the looks of it, which will reduce the frame height a little because of the added travel fom the ratio. Half of which would be on the jounce letting the frame down a little. But i would think the shock would still need to be shorter to get it all the way to the right height. Did I understand it right that the shock they have for it is shorter?

[Quadworks]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Pappy
anyone one bet he installs the link on a stock shock
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hey Pappy whats wrong with trying something out first. I installed my +4 swingarm on my stock shock. I am going on a year now without have it revalved. Maybe I ride alot easier than you. Ya know lets tie 1 arm behind your back and see if you ride any different than the others. HUH?

[Pappy]

the +4 swing arm would merely make the shock soft and bottom easy


using a link that relocates or repositions the shock could be costly. it could cause the shock or linkage to bind and break...and that isnt safe now is it?

things are designed for a reason, they are made to work in conjunction with other parts.

[UglyMotha™]

the combination of the +4 swingarm and the linkage is just goin to kill the stock shock and if you say it rides good then you have no clue how a bike should ride

[Quadworks]

Dang did you 2 wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or what?? I was just merly stating that everybody said I would have to revalve for my +4 arm and I didn't (yet). For the way I ride, it is a good ride. Since you guys can't read between the lines very well. I only have 1 arm(left) so I don't do no jumping of any kind that is why I haven't bottemed out the stock shock yet. I also said I would install it and see what I thought. With the linkage and the +4 arm yes I know for a fact I will have to revalve. Yes I know it will ride better with a revalve on the +4 alone. But without spending the big money I am comfortable how it rides currently.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Quadworks
Dang did you 2 wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning or what?? I was just merly stating that everybody said I would have to revalve for my +4 arm and I didn't (yet). For the way I ride, it is a good ride. Since you guys can't read between the lines very well. I only have 1 arm(left) so I don't do no jumping of any kind that is why I haven't bottemed out the stock shock yet. I also said I would install it and see what I thought. With the linkage and the +4 arm yes I know for a fact I will have to revalve. Yes I know it will ride better with a revalve on the +4 alone. But without spending the big money I am comfortable how it rides currently.


i merely stated my feelings, i think a +4 with stock shock would be ok especially for a light person. you need to read what i posted from simply an objective point of view. i just dont want to see post after poat about broken parts because some folks dont listen to what the shock people tell ya.

sucks about only having one arm...how did that happen?

[Quadworks]

I think I was wanting to play electrician when I was 4. Oh well!! As long as I still have the 1 I can still ride my 400. But no for the riding I do (aggressive trail) my current setup works good. But yes I know I will have to get the rear revalved for the rear linkage install. I was just gunna install to see how much lower it makes it. Thats about all I am looking for. My old 300 sat real low and it was awesome for riding. Still sat up enough to clear everything thou.

[SGA]

Thats cool youre not letting 1 arm slow you down.:)

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Quadworks
I think I was wanting to play electrician when I was 4. Oh well!!

hey, maybe you could post a thread about some of the things you have had to change on the quad so you could ride, if you have changed anything.

i know i met a rider at rausch that had no use of his legs and he could ride the wheels off his quad. mad props to anyone with any disability that keeps on keepin on:macho

here is a pic of the rider i met:macho

[Quadworks]

The only thing I did was to use a twist throttle on the left side. I do it just fine, but everybody else that trys to ride my 400 has a hard time. Which works out good so my buddys leave it alone. I also put the +4 arm for any hills I come upon.

[SGA]

So what ever happened here. Did anyone run the GT Thunder rear link yet and how is it?

[Quadworks]

I have been a little to busy to get mine installed. But hopefully someone else has gotten one and installed it to let everybody know what they think about it.

[UglyMotha™]

worth every penny in my oppinion, i've been riding on it since spring now and couldn't be any happier with it's performance, soaked up everything i handed it, rarely ever bucked me, i found that rearend usally only kicked up if i didn't carry my front wheels over whatever i was crossing, i'm trying a different valving setup as of this paste weekend and went back to a single rate spring setup, laz, says it will be an even softer ride now, i haven't got any seat time on it yet, since it started raining friday before i got my bike back together, but it rocked before

but mad props to laz, i don't think you could find another place with better customer support http://www.exriders.com/vbb/images/icons/icon14.gif

but if you guys got anymore direct questions ask away, i've put quite abit of seat time on this setup, and should be able to answer any questions ya got

Originally posted by UglyMotha™
i've put quite abit of seat time on this setup, and should be able to answer any questions ya got

Why are you still such a slow rider???

[UglyMotha™]

cause i can't keep the pos outta the trees :o

[JOEX]

Originally posted by UglyMotha™
worth every penny in my oppinion, i've been riding on it since spring now and couldn't be any happier with it's performance, soaked up everything i handed it, rarely ever bucked me, i found that rearend usally only kicked up if i didn't carry my front wheels over whatever i was crossing, i'm trying a different valving setup as of this paste weekend and went back to a single rate spring setup, laz, says it will be an even softer ride now, i haven't got any seat time on it yet, since it started raining friday before i got my bike back together, but it rocked before

but mad props to laz, i don't think you could find another place with better customer support http://www.exriders.com/vbb/images/icons/icon14.gif

but if you guys got anymore direct questions ask away, i've put quite abit of seat time on this setup, and should be able to answer any questions ya got
Can you give some more info on why you're going with the single rate instead of the dual rate....

[UglyMotha™]

that's what lazurus suggested to me, this was the setup he came up with on his sons bike and said it was much better cause he was able to set it up to where it was softer than before and still not bottom out he also said that having a single rate is alot smoother than the dual, so i took his word for it ;)

[bayou boy]

I have a couple of questions about this setup, I am not a suspension genius by any means so bear with me...I am seriously thinking about using it on my 400. the price definitly makes it seem attractive.
how much does it lower the seat height?
does it help hook up when powering out of turns?
does it clear the skidplate?
I saw in this thread someone stated a reworked stock rear will need to be worked over more often than an elka (example) rear...so basically i am wondering about the reliability of a reworked stocker. I dont race professionally but we tend to get pretty competitive amongst friends and think this would be a pretty cool sleeper mod. I think the front shocks I am going to go with will be the elka cheapies without the rezzies(with shock covers another semi sleeper mod) would this mod compliment those front shocks?? thanks...

[UglyMotha™]

I am not a suspension genius by any means so bear with me

makes two of us :o



how much does it lower the seat height?

a great deal, i'm not sure on actually numbers, but my ride height is at 7 3/4" to the the bottom of the frame with me on the bike and the front is 1/4" higher, i have no clue what the stock height is so you could run out and measure your bike and that should give you a good idea


does it help hook up when powering out of turns?

yup, after i had the shock done, the bike no longer likes to wheelie and i can lay into it coming out of a corner, the rear is so soft that she just squats and goes



does it clear the skidplate?

nope, i had to notch the skidplate out in order to clear the link, but i have beat the crap outta this link and it has taken quite a few nasty hits and she's still there

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid118/pf09d200ad857bb5b4434c2b5a9a68696/f88ea38b.jpg



i am wondering about the reliability

can't really answer that one i've only had the shock since spring, I don't see why it wouldn't be anymore reliable than an elka though



would this mod compliment those front shocks?? thanks...

in my oppinion this mod would be a must with a set of front shocks, to a point i almost think it should be first, but the only way to take full potential of either you need both, the ride of my bike now is undescribable as to what the rear soaks up, i can rip thru rough sections now full blast where others would get bucked off

[bayou boy]

Thanks for the reply...definitly cleared up the questions I had