Ross Pistons - The Good News and the Bad News

[Quadzilla]

The Good news: My Ross piston FINALLY arrived and my motor builder (East Coast Performance) had some comments. He said that the piston itself is of exception quality/machining and that he rated it higher than Wisco and even JE just from visual inspection.

The Bad News: The piston and rings (yes the rings) need machining. Evidentally you custom machine them for your type off application. Things like alchohol, high compression, flat track, etc all can be factored in and they tell you how to do it per application. Oil holes/journals have to be done on the piston. The rings are "blanks" according to my machinist and have to be customized, etc. They even ask that the cylinder be honed a certain way. All and all he said it would be a couple of hours of extra labor compared to a Wisco or JE (which come "ready to install").

I also ordered the lighter pin (made of a stronger material so the pin can be thinnner and lighter than standard pin for quicker reving). I hope this all pans out. It sounds like that if this is done right, it could be real sweet, but if done wrong, it could be bad news. I hope that my machinist is competent. He came highly recommended. I'll fill you in as things progress...

[RAPTORAZ]

Did you order a custom piston? I had no such problems with mine. I sent the jug and piston/rings to a local motorcycle machine shop, and in a day and $35 later the jug and piston/rings were ready to go.

[MIKE400EX]

Sounds like the same piston/pin combo that I received from Ross. Mine required no further machining on the piston, other than some deburring (not really necessary but I'm that way). Rings from any of the aftermarket suppliers need to be checked for length(end gap) and usually need to be file fit. For that matter, the ring end gap for any application should always be checked to be safe. For whatever reason, sounds as though you received a semi-finished part.

[Quadzilla]

Bummer! Well I'm going to ask my builder to call Ross and ask them what the the hell the deal is. I don't want him doing all this extra crap if he does not have to. Thanks guys! Anyone else out there with a Ross run into this?

[UglyMotha™]

actually to me it sounds like your builder is trying to milk you for some more money :rolleyes: yes the rings to come with a list of different applications, the only thing that that change is your ring gaps personally i just think your builder is making it sound like more of a job than it really is

[Silverfox@C&DRacing]

I would have to agree I have never heard of any one doing extra work on the ross kits that we sell other than the ring end gap which should be checked on every piston.

[dhines]

Go back to East Coast Performance today and calmly ask for all of your shiznit back. Then go to a builder who doesn't try to jerk you around. Gapping the rings is NOT a "custom" job. It shouldn't take even an amatuer more than 30 minutes to do.

It looks like I've got yet another builder to add to the list of those who will never get any of my business.

[Quadzilla]

You guys may be right, I may need a new builder. To give the builder a little credit: I spoke with Jim at Ross yesterday (who is the motorcycle piston rep/tech). He indicated that they use "file fit" rings which are different than "drop in rings". He said they the file fit rings do take significantly more time (it could be 30 min more, who knows) to do it right. He said most people who use his pistons really don't take the proper time to fit the file fit rings properly (hope you guys did it right!). He did indicate for the builder to read and follow the detailed instructions exactly. He said that many builders screw it up because they do it their way vs the way Ross tells them to. He also indicated that they cylinder honing process is slightly different. My builder did take the time to review all of the documentation and that's when he called me and that's when this thread started. One side of me is glad that he took the time to read it and notify me rather than just doing it the normal way (vs the Ross way).

Ross gives you the option of setting up the piston/rings for turbo, blown, high comp, etc ,etc. This dictates how you "configure" their piston and rings. My builder said an extra hour or two tops. Maybe he was just over estimating just in case it takes longer than 30 min or so. Tough call on whether or not I should stay with him but given the facts that he read everything AND that Jim at Ross said that most people don't read the docs and do it their way (and build a less than perfect motor or flat out screw it up) I prob will stick with this builder.

[UglyMotha™]

Originally posted by Quadzilla
He indicated that they use "file fit" rings which are different than "drop in rings". He said they the file fit rings do take significantly more time (it could be 30 min more, who knows) to do it right. He said most people who use his pistons really don't take the proper time to fit the file fit rings properly (hope you guys did it right!).




That goes for all rings including wiesco and je, you ALWAYS gap your rings, if not it can come around and bite you in the butt, there is no such thing as drop in rings as i stated before either A) your builder is trying to make more of a job out of it than it really is or B) your builder had now clue what he was doin berfore and decided to read the directions this time

[MIKE400EX]

Ross gives you the option of setting up the piston/rings for turbo, blown, high comp, etc ,etc. This dictates how you "configure" their piston and rings. My builder said an extra hour or two tops.

All that "configuration" refers to is what ring gap to use. If it takes a professional engine builder more than 15 minutes to set the gap on a set of rings for a single cyl. engine, either he doesn't know how to do it, doesn't have the correct tools, doesn't have the correct rings, or he is just trying to milk you. Be careful with the rest of your engine!

[spliffy]

What should the ring end gap be on a 400ex with a 416 JE piston?

[UglyMotha™]

your rings will come with a spec sheet with a list of different applications and what your gap should be :o