for 400EX to 450R owners

[conway400]

Two questions about giving up, what I believe to be a great bike, 400EX for the 450R:

Besides the bigger powerplant, what do you feel got better (or worse) from one to the other?

And, second: specifically, how would you compare the shocks? I hated the 400EX fronts. I learned quickly here that money was better spent on the suspension and tires than busting into the motor first.

Thanks!

[86GN]

I don't feel that there is anything worse about the 450.

My brother-in-law bought my 400 so I still have the chance to switch back and forth. After riding the 450 for a while when you get on the 400 the first thing you notice is that the seat and tank area are much wider on the 400. I feel out of sorts on the 400 now because the 450 is easier to ride fast.

The stock shocks on the 450 are leaps and bounds better than stock 400EX shocks.

[conway400]

Thanks! I always though my 400 seat was a little thin and a hair narrow. Hope I am not disappointed in that part of the 450. I do like the 450 tank being narrower.

I have loved how well my 400 handled high speed trails in the dunes at Little Sahara. I don't want to lose that with a 450. That was one area where I didn't need more power. Everything was in the middle gears and pegged anyway. But in the open...

I also am hoping the 450 is a little better jumper in the sand...

[86atc250r]

One thing you'll immediately notice going back and forth from a 400EX to a 450R is the weight. On an MX track, it's effortless to nail your timing compared to a 400EX - due to it's power and lightweight.

Another thing you'll notice is the torque and throttle response is WAY up on the 450R.

You'll also notice that the 450R gearing is too tall for tight woods riding. Don't let anyone tell you that you don't know how to ride if you think the gearing is too tall -- it is. However, it's probably fine for dunes, MX, and other types of more open riding.

The 450 will have a familiar feel to it coming from a 400EX, only better - you can move around on it more, see the front tires without shaving the fenders, and get off the back better.

Suspension wise, the 450R has much better front and rear shocks than a 400EX. From the factory it rides pretty plush and resists bottomming. However, that doesn't mean it's suspension is perfect.

You'll find that even more so than on the 400EX, that money will be far better spent on suspension and handling on the 450R than on the 400EX. Not because it's worse, but because in stock form it offers a lot more and better power than a 400EX does.

If you're riding a 400EX with a good aftermarket suspension setup right now, don't have your expectations too high for the stock 450R. It's good, but not as good as a really well setup aftermarket package.

Also, unlike the 400EX's front shocks which require immediate replacement, you have something to work with on the 450R - however, you may want to talk with your shock builder to see what he can do with the stock 450 shocks.

[everest21]

This is the same question ive had. Ive got a 450 reserved at the dealer and have been riding a 400ex for a few years. Sounds like the 450 is everything thats good about the 400ex but better.
I keep reading in magazines (dont believe everything you read I know!) about the light front end and how it wheelies too easily. What do you guys think about that compared to the 400ex? Is it even a problem?

[MX#9]

The 400 wheelies way more than the 450,at least that is my expierience. I've only been able to get out on a slippery,icy,still too much snow trail. For these conditions the 400was better[I am more used to the 400 please keep in mind]. The 450,with it's awsome acceleration,just spins too easily. Also, there must be something to this gearing issue on tight trails,the 450 makes you work the cluch a lot. A friend told me the gear ratio for first gear is the same as second on a 250r. For deep creek crossings,you will miss the e-start,at least I do. I also think the front shock are stiff,hopefully a little more saddle time will help. I do have some cool jumps I have not been able to hit yet because of snow,but spring is just around the corner.

[greghall]

1st gear is way to tall,Iwant mine to feel like the 400EX when in tight woods.The R is real comfortable handles better shocks were a little stiff for me but adjusted them softer have to ride it since the changes,it will take some mods but it is way better than the EX.

[conway400]

Thanks, everyone.

I am excited about getting the 450, but at the same time really like my 400. I have never needed more in the trails playing follow-the-leader at Little Sahara (I know you know what I mean, Gabe). But have needed more in the open dunes. I could care less for dragging.

I don't want to get more power than can be managed, if you can believe that. Guess I want to be sure it is a very good machine to play with, not just hit full bore all the time...

[sparky450AR]

Originally posted by everest21
This is the same question ive had. Ive got a 450 reserved at the dealer and have been riding a 400ex for a few years. Sounds like the 450 is everything thats good about the 400ex but better.
I keep reading in magazines (dont believe everything you read I know!) about the light front end and how it wheelies too easily. What do you guys think about that compared to the 400ex? Is it even a problem?


The 400 probably wheelies easier when you dont want it too, but if you want the front end up on the 450R it will come up.....I feel right at home on my R coming off of a 416.....you WILL not miss ANYTHING!!!!!!

[sparky450AR]

Originally posted by conway400
Thanks, everyone.

I am excited about getting the 450, but at the same time really like my 400. I have never needed more in the trails playing follow-the-leader at Little Sahara (I know you know what I mean, Gabe). But have needed more in the open dunes. I could care less for dragging.

I don't want to get more power than can be managed, if you can believe that. Guess I want to be sure it is a very good machine to play with, not just hit full bore all the time...


my 1st time out i played with it my gps said for 100miles!! and i didnt miss my axis equiped 416ex a bit....i was too busy having a blast.....the kick start didnt bother me a bit, the hot start is there for a reason, use it! You will need a 13 tooth front sprocket for woods....for dunes stock form is better...

HAVE FUN!

[86atc250r]

Conway400 -

The 450's power is very manageable - it's power comes on very smooth and seems to extend forever - Much, much better for dunes than a 400EX power curve.

Other nice bonuses for the 450R are an improved front end, improved rear swingarm setup, lighter weight and better ergos.

Honda made little tweaks here and there instead of re-inventing the wheel. Seems like I find something new every day that they made better over the 400EX.

Right now, in the woods, I am still faster on my 400EX - but after I tweak on the gearing and suspension, it will be no contest.

BTW - we're heading out to the dunes the last weekend of March. Hopefully the weather will be nice & the trails will be in good condition.

[MIA450R]

Originally posted by sparky450AR
The 400 probably wheelies easier when you dont want it too, but if you want the front end up on the 450R it will come up.....I feel right at home on my R coming off of a 416.....you WILL not miss ANYTHING!!!!!!


I agree with this...having had a 416EX myself, the stock 400 was way too tame, but my 416 hauled. Going from the 416 to the 450, it's faster, lighter, handles way better and is super quiet! All major pluses in my book.

And as for the kicker...the only thing I have to say about this, is replacing my battery on my 400EX twice was costly. I have NO issues with kicking this thing once or twice to fire it up, and never having to worry about the battery dying/replacing it.

[jmpulse]

This weekend after riding my R for 3+ hours on a track, I washed up the EX that I loaned out. I got on the EX to take it for a dry off ride, and man, it feels way weird now. I have to say that I have fallen in love with how the R's ergos are! The R has taken me to a new level of comfort, and I am now enjoying jumping.

The front end didn't seen overly light to me. I did find that I was sitting futher forward on the seat though.

[r450rr]

i agree with everyone on this post. You really wont miss a thing about the 400.. When I ride my ex now, it feels stiff, and heavy,you cant manuver it as easy, I also agree that the ex's front end is lighter than the R's if that helps you out any, it felt like i sat lower on the 400ex, (might be because of the plush seat), but the R handles really well. and doesnt feel top heavy to me. The throttle response is a whole lot better on the R. I might be geared a little high for Tight woods, but thats an easy fix. it's perfect for me. I trail ride alot and I also drag race. IMO i think the tall first gear is perfect for drags, and its managable for woods. but like i said its an easy fix. I myself thought that I might not like the kickstart after a while. but It's very easy to kick. I can start it sittin down. so goodluck in your choice, IMO and pretty much everyones in this thread, you wont be making a bad decision if you get the 450R:)

[spincr4hire]

good reviews guys...

[conway400]

Thanks for the info guys! (Although I am not sure I want to sit higher.)

I sold the EX today. Guess I am committed now. My 450 was supposed to be at the dealer 2 days ago. They said they were delayed till end on this month. Anyone now why?

I hope this one is easier to jump than the 400. I used to could sky my Quadracer. It flew straight and always was forgiving on off landings. My 400 was not. Might be that 2-stroke blip I could give the throttle at the last minute at the top of a jump that gave me that confidence vs. having to keep my speed up on the 4-stroke from the bottom up...

[86atc250r]

The 450 jumps much nicer than my 400. I've landed crossed up once so far and it corrected well -- although I can't really say I've not been happy with the 400's crossed up landing handling.

As far as seat height goes - the 400EX and 450R have nearly identical seat to bottom of the frame measurements - so ride heights should be practically identical, if both are setup properly.

As far as picking up a 450 - it might be a bit of a drive for you, but you might check ProCycle in Springfield - they've had a pretty good stock of them coming thru and sell them OTD for $6058

Not the greatest of dealers, but it's hard to argue with the price & availability....

[everest21]

I got mine yesterday, rode for the first time about and hour ago, I have to agree with everyone here pretty much, but heres my two cents.
The motor is great....but its just part of the story.
The first thing I noticed was the ride, its definitely stiffer and not as plush as the 400, but as you ride the bike more and more you see the reason for it....its meant to be rode hard...and it does it very well! The other thing I noticed immediately (killed it the first time) is the tall gearing. First gear is way taller than the EX, theres no lugging it up the loading ramp...not for me anyway. All in all...id say there two different animals...the more I rode the better it felt. The steering, handling and response are killer, like no other quad ive ever ridden....its really that good. Its so good the speed is deceptive, before you know it...your cruising comfortably at a speed that would be near the limit on the 400 but your barely touching this bikes potential. I was riding some roads ive ridden many many times on the EX and I couldnt believe how much faster it would corner and take the rough stuff. The brakes are also all the mags and everyone say they are...very sweet.
The only thing that a EX owner may not like is the tall gearing, and the different power delivery....though its not bad...just different. I may tweak the gearing and possibly jetting...but im happy.

[conway400]

I will probably play with the gearing. I know I liked my 400 a little lower for pulling sand tires. Didn't care about dragging (there is always a $20,000 machine out there that can beat you).

What is this I hear about the 450 eating oil? One reason I am serious about the 450 is that my other Honda's have been bullet proof.

Thanks, Gabe for the heads up. I would love to out there when you guys are...

[86atc250r]

Mine hasn't used a drop yet and is due to be changed.

[jmpulse]

I wouldn't be concerned about the oil usage issue. With the oldest quad out there being just over a month old, they are barly broken in. While breaking in, they will use some oil, all motors will. If they continue to burn oil, they probally didn't get broken in correctly. In the first three hours of life of my 450R, it didn't use any noticable oil, no smoking.

[yellowrider]

i thought the 450r front end came up a whole lot easier than my 400ex came up....

also i thought it was tall... felt sorta tippy...



power is good .. it has a longer power range in each gear than my 400ex does...

kick start was easy .. i wouldnt worry abou tthat .

[conway400]

Well, the 400 is gone. And I just picked up the 450! Haven't even started it yet. Whoever said this was ugly is way off. This thing looks great.

I am already prepared to gear it down some. The Honda dealer gave me some of the Honda brand HP oil for it. The manual says that you can use this in both sides. Any problems there? They also couldn't find what filter went in it. Guess this may be the first Honda ATV I have had that doesn't share that same, common oil filter?

Without even riding it there are a few things I like better that are obvious non-performance: removing the seat without taking off the whole rear fender and the key is better positioned. You can even put stickers on the black part (no crazy circle indentions). :)

Just hope I can throw it around like the 400. Thanks for all the help guys. Hope to be at Little Sahara twice in April.

[MX#9]

Use the GN4 honda oil for the first oil change in at least the engine[I used it both sides for first change]. Then HP4 and the Honda tranny oil in the red bottle. The CRF oil filter is the same and yes it is different than the 300ex,400ex filter. I would do that fisrt oil change pretty quick as you will find a lot of junk on your filter[filings and pieces of metal]. Good luck and have fun.

[29FTEX]

We're supposed to be at Little Sahara on April 22-25. If you are there then, maybe we'll see you. Good Luck with it.

[conway400]

Thanks. Guess I'll track down a filter. (No dealer in town.) I am ready to run it after work for the first time!

Is it true that the stock chain isn't long enough for a 40T sprocket in the rear? Seems like several combos work fine on the 400...

29FTEX - I will be there then. Where are you in Arkansas?

[86atc250r]

Ugly, slow, poor handling, etc, etc -- so much has been said about this quad from people that have never even seen one, yet alone ridden one.....

Oilfilter - Use a CRF450R filter.

If you liked how you could "throw around" a 400EX - you'll love the 450R.

[29FTEX]

I'm in Greenbrier.

Let me guess.... you're in Conway??? :D

Are you going with Barlow and crew?

[yellowrider]

one thing i did like about the 450r you can slide it around easy and predictable..

i love the machine if it didnt feel tall.. it makes me uncomfortable.. .for some strange reason i can not get used to it.. i wish that motor was just on my 400ex frame and i had the same controls with the power of the 450r

that front end is pretty light for hills but after i rode it for a while this weekend i was getting used to it ..

the looks are really starting to grow on me.. and it didnt start with me on the first kick everytime most of the time it was the third kick.

also i missed my headlight on my 400ex you know when you sitting on the ex you see the fenders and in the middle you see the headlights poking out.. i wish it was like that on the honda .. sorta makes it feel naked casue i cant see it .. lol

the 450r sure does like to be reved high.. i dont mind giving it the juice :D

[86atc250r]

The seat height to bottom of the frame measurement is the same between the 400EX and 450R.

Meaning - that if both are properly setup with the same frame to ground clearance, they will have the same seat height - meaning if the 400EX doesn't feel tall the 450R shouldn't feel tall given both are setup similarly.

Many people (myself included) feel a stock 450R feels a little tall because they are used to a lowered 400EX with aftermarket handlebars, when in fact, it doesn't sit tall at all when you compare them apples to apples.

The 450R frame chassis has numerous improvements over the 400EX (I find something new they've improved every time I work on it) - personally I'm glad they didn't just put the 450R engine in the 400EX chassis.

That all said, I am still currently racing my 400EX - it will be a little while before I have my 450R ready - but I have little doubt that when it's finished there will be no comparison between the two & I will have spent significantly less money on the 450R to get it there.

[greghall]

Originally posted by yellowrider
one thing i did like about the 450r you can slide it around easy and predictable..

i love the machine if it didnt feel tall.. it makes me uncomfortable.. .for some strange reason i can not get used to it.. i wish that motor was just on my 400ex frame and i had the same controls with the power of the 450r

that front end is pretty light for hills but after i rode it for a while this weekend i was getting used to it ..

the looks are really starting to grow on me.. and it didnt start with me on the first kick everytime most of the time it was the third kick.

also i missed my headlight on my 400ex you know when you sitting on the ex you see the fenders and in the middle you see the headlights poking out.. i wish it was like that on the honda .. sorta makes it feel naked casue i cant see it .. lol

the 450r sure does like to be reved high.. i dont mind giving it the juice :D How can you say its to tall that bike is great & very stable .take all your preload out of the shocks & all the settings on soft thats what I like for XC set up MX is a different story I dont ride MX,the bike is perfect in ergonomics.

[conway400]

Is soft a good suspension set up on this thing for sand? I liked my 400 much better with the Works shocks than I did the stock ones...

29FTEX - Yes, good guess. :)

Gabe - I take it that you think this will work well for follow-the-leader? :)

[86atc250r]

Yes, especially after some suspension tuning.

More on that after I get some more time on it, some tuning done, and some input from those also doing some work.

[conway400]

Well, I rode it last night. Started easy. Rode very nice. Pulls everywhere! I like what I feel so far. I am just on the dirt road right now.

I don't want to mess with the suspension yet, but thinking I may want to adjust slightly to the soft side.

Do I need to check that my throttle opens all the way? I know on the 400 I had to look in the carb to see if the slide went up all the way. What technique on here?

[86atc250r]

Yes you need to check it - unless the dealer fixed it, it's setup wrong.

There's many different techniques that will work for getting the throttle set correctly. The techniques are pretty well common between all quads.

[conway400]

Sorry for the ignorance, but can I tell if I need adjustment from the travel of the thumb throttle alone? Do I have to take anything apart?

[86atc250r]

Pull the rubber boot back where the cable enters the thumb throttle assembly - you will see an adjuster. If that adjuster is screwed all the way in, your throttle needs adjusted.

If it's not screwed all the way in, it's probably OK, but it's best to verify anyways.

Throttle adjustement should be a regular part of your maintenance schedule - just like checking the clutch adjustment.

[29FTEX]

Hey Cory, have you had a chance to race against Travis' 440ex yet? Let me know what happens so I can tell Goodnight and Barlow.

[conway400]

Not yet. But it, although faster, didn't walk off and leave my 400. :)

How was your throttle adjusted?

Mine has nothing showing on either side of the adjuster 'nut'. It is tight against the throttle assembly and there is cable all the way up against it on the inside. Help?

[86atc250r]

You'll need to adjust it then.

One of the easier methods is to hold the throttle wide open, then start backing out the adjuster until you feel it start to push your thumb back - set it at the point where it neither moves your thumb but if you adjusted it anymore, it would.

Then make sure the quad idles properly while turning both directions & you're good to go.

[29FTEX]

Yes, get all that free play out of it. You can do what 86atc250r said, or you can loosen the cable nut, twist the cable out until the play is gone. If you do it while it's running, you'll be able to hear the idle go up when you move it out too far. Adjust to where there's no slack, and you're idle speed isn't changed.

Hope we can get together and ride soon. Looks like they are going to the Fort Smith river dunes Sunday. I can't go, I gotta watch the kid.

You better not let Travis beat you!!!:D

[bone705]

anyone have a comparison between the new R and the old one?

[86atc250r]

Be careful if you just remove all the slack - you can hit the throttle stop on the carb instead of the thumb throttle body & that greatly increases risk of cable breakage and increases the carb's throttle assembly wear.

[conway400]

Thanks for sticking with me on this guys. Ok, I adjusted the throttle, and, yes, it is now faster. :) And I am sorry, this is a good looking machine.

I adjusted using some of both methods. When I first started turning the thing, the thumb started to move, so I didn't know how much movement or pressure was what I should be shouting for. I turned until the idle changed and came back in a few turns.

More than 1/4 inch to about 1/2 inch of threads showing now. About right?