Electric start vs kick

[DangerousDean]

Whats up with the kick only..

is there any companies who makes the "magic button" for the 450 yet??

[2004TRX450R]

They were just trying to weed out the winers. Figured that all the hard core guys that really wanted a high performance quad would want the kick start anyway!:devil: :blah:

[DangerousDean]

i dunno, the kick isnt all bad. but really the little bit of extra weight and one extra button ?

then what happens when u stall (you cant say it never happens) it takes you 4x longer to start back up then with a button, fold out the kcik and kick it over 1-100000 times vs. pressing a button .

[Hammer trx450r]

to be honest it isnt a problem for me at all. Haveing to worry about the battery would suck more. batteries are pretty heavy too

[jasontrx450r]

Mine has always started on the 2nd kick...it is very easy to start it after it is stalled also....i just use the hot start button and it starts on the first kick everytime

[z400ACDC]

That electric starter would be nice on the last lap of a 20 minute moto, when you kill the engine, in a turn on a 95 degree day! While your tired, hot body is trying to start that R, those YFZ'z that are not in front of you, will be sailing by.

[biohazard1.2]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
to be honest it isnt a problem for me at all. Haveing to worry about the battery would suck more. batteries are pretty heavy too


Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
They were just trying to weed out the winers. Figured that all the hard core guys that really wanted a high performance quad would want the kick start anyway!:devil: :blah:



what sucks is being slow when you want to be fast, regardless of reason. Harcore is doing what you want when you want and telling those who disagree to fug off. Hardcore is coming on exriders and disagreeing with anything that says HONDA IS BETTER THAN YAMAHA, a softcore ****** just says what everybody does to fit in.

I got to ride the TRX450R this week. It is probably the best stock trail quad ever produced (my op)...but it is not nearly as quick as (HRC/pipe vs. pipe/jetted) a YFZ. The TRX does have a nice cushy ride, a high top speed and good ergos.

I think the ATC/early TRX days scared Honda a little and they backed off putting the CRF tuned engine in. That would have been a scary fast quad...if they could get a tranny to hold together with that much HP and TQ.

cya.
ride.

[Blown 331]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
They were just trying to weed out the winers. Figured that all the hard core guys that really wanted a high performance quad would want the kick start anyway!:devil: :blah:

I couldn't have said that any better. Please see my signature.

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by biohazard1.2
[B] not nearly as quick as (HRC/pipe vs. pipe/jetted) a YFZ.

I dissagree. My HRC kitted 450R didn't feel as fast when rideing it as my firends full HMF system and jetted YFZ. But when we linged them up on flat ground they were dead even and mine was packing a 230lbs riders and his was packing a 150lbs rider. So even out the weights and wich one would be faster?

[biohazard1.2]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
I dissagree. My HRC kitted 450R didn't feel as fast when rideing it as my firends full HMF system and jetted YFZ. But when we linged them up on flat ground they were dead even and mine was packing a 230lbs riders and his was packing a 150lbs rider. So even out the weights and wich one would be faster?
I weigh 210. I have drag raced 2 trxs and short coursed 2. The outcomes were the same.

I did get to ride one myself recently:

I did 300' runs timed with both bikes...granted, my YFZ is broke in and has a full GYTR pipe, jetted RIGHT!, and airbox lid was removed with a GYTR foam filter, no outterwears.
The TRX was HRC/piped/jetted by powersports, but was brand new and not broken in yet.

I was consistently 1.5-2.3 seconds faster on the YFZ. Could be the extra seat time and the break-in issue.

Like you said, the YFZ feels faster and in this test, was QUICKER.

I got to ride the TRX on a small track with some switchbacks, high speed sweepers and a few small jumps.

It felt like a HONDA should, very good at everything, just not terribly awe inspiring in the powerband dept.(unlike the CRF)

I like the two stroke type hit that the YFZ has....I just got used to it (two stroke hit) when I raced the 250cc class back in the day (CRs then YZs).

But, we can both agree (hopefully) that either quad in the hands of someone who knows, is a winner.

[biohazard1.2]

Originally posted by Blown 331
I couldn't have said that any better. Please see my signature.

wow. with intellectually gifted gurus like you to tell us all what reverse and e-starts are for, you would think that 90% of the quads would have neither instead of both.:D

and...I guess you have hand cranks and have removed the reverse gear and linkage from your cars...or you would be a Pu$$y...right?

But, I would like to see a pic of the mustang...do you have one on a thread here somewhere?

primarily an underhood shot!

[quadrcr161]

i havent had a problem with mine. i had to stop saturday to get some flags untangled from my axle (damn dirt bike ruts) and it fired right up once i got them loose. mine is also pretty stock, everything in the hrc kit except the cam (i hate working on 4 strokes) and a 13 th sproket. i could have had the holeshot if i didnt pull to the right but i was 2nd right behind a modded yfz. to me thats pretty good for a quad with as few mods as mine had.

[DangerousDean]

Originally posted by Blown 331
I couldn't have said that any better. Please see my signature.
sorry, your opinion doesnt count, you drive a mustang :blah:



but why would you want to limit your self with NOT having electric start, or reverse (i dont ahve reverse, and dont want or need it) but, really say you stall your 450r out, you would ahve to stop pull out the kick and kick it over a couple times and then you can get going again. While say on a yfz450(electric start) you stall at the same spot, all you gotta do is press a button and your going, before your even stopped. NOW, if you did this on a yfz you would still have your same postion, or onl lost a couple. But on a 450r the time it would take to start it up again.. youve lost a handful or more spots.

Which would you chose??
This is the main reason why when i get ride of my 400 im getting a yfz. even though i love honda. IMO they ****ed up (for me anyways)

[Blown 331]

Well I trail ride mine for fun. I don't compete with it. Banshee's and 250R's don't have a starter or reverse.
I learned on a 1982 ATC200 which had niether. I've hardly ever had reverse and I've learned to ride with out it. You only need it when you f*ck up.
If you're too lazy to kick it over I think you should be on the couch watching TV.
For me kick start is a lot less maint and a CR doesn't have a starter what if you stall that? Maybe they sould have a starter--retarded.
And I can email you all the pics of the Mustang you want. It put over 500 horse to the tires with a choked exhaust and it was running out of fuel. I've taken care of those problems though. And yes I can email you the dyno sheets too!

[Bretmd94]

Kicking mine is completly easy. YOu might lose a couple seconds in a race. And if your racing you would use the hot start, (which when hot, always starts on the first kick with hot start). I love the kick start only. Ive missed it since my 350x three wheeler. \

Your gonna lose maybe a couple seconds. You also wont ever have to rely on a battery. Yeah, some one might make a kit for the few people that seem to need an elec start. But if you race XC or MX there are tons of racers that still roll 250r's and do jsut fine. Bill Balance jsut recently finally switched form his 250r i think. I know he was still racing it and winning with his kickstart for a ver long time. So stop being little girls and kick the bike over. :blah:

[Blown 331]

If you don't like the kick start on the 450R just have your grandma come over and start it for you.

[z400ACDC]

You guys are right! Those of us that like electric start need to shape up. This weekend I will be putting a pull-rope starter on my Dixion mower, hand cranks on the Auto's and the brakes will go on everything. I will just drag my feet. Those airconditioners will have to go as well as the blinkers. From now on, I will use hand signals and rolled down windows. If that is not enough to make a man out of me, I will turn off the electric in the house and get candles, wood burning stove and maybe a horse and buggy:macho

[Honda]

I am Assembling a buddies 400EX for motorcross, personally I think the bike would be much nicer without the heavy battery and all the extra electrical B.S. that goes with it. It would be easier to assemble also.

I don't know, but Have you ever been out on the trail (I mean way out) and your electric starter fail? Or find out your battery is dead? Let me tell you!!!

IT SUCKS!!!

You Can carry a few extra plugs out with you, I don't think I will be shoving a spare battery and fuses into the tool compartment though.

[quadrcr161]

Originally posted by Honda
I am Assembling a buddies 400EX for motorcross, personally I think the bike would be much nicer without the heavy battery and all the extra electrical B.S. that goes with it. It would be easier to assemble also.

I don't know, but Have you ever been out on the trail (I mean way out) and your electric starter fail? Or find out your battery is dead? Let me tell you!!!

IT SUCKS!!!

You Can carry a few extra plugs out with you, I don't think I will be shoving a spare battery and fuses into the tool compartment though.

yep ive been on the trail and something electrical go wrong. luckly it was just a fuse but at 10 at night it was hard to figure out. it was on my 300ex, i kinda wish it had a kick start but i remember the old 250x was a pain to start.

[Blown 331]

I had a 250X up until about a year ago and this thing was a beater, it still started great though. It got stolen and I bought a new 400EX. The one thing I hated about the 400 was the starter. I heard the 450 was gonna be kick start and that's all it took for me to get one.

[86atc250r]

I did 300' runs timed with both bikes..... I was consistently 1.5-2.3 seconds faster on the YFZ.Biohazard - you have to be kidding. One to more than Two seconds faster in a 300' drag?

First of all thost numbers are absoultely ridiculous. Second of all, if you're that inconsistant - how can you possibly get any accurate tests. Third of all, the 450R is not geared nearly as well for a 300' drag as a YFZ and if you want to compare stock gearing to stock gearing, don't forget to mention that the TRX has a 10MPH top end advantage to a YFZ stock for stock.

Even if the TRX was geared stock and the throttle wasn't adjusted properly, I can not see anywhere near a full second differential - the difference between a stock 400EX and a YFZ isn't even a full second unless there is a serious rider or traction discrepency.

If you're going to spread this kind of blantant BS - do it somewhere where people don't have 300' drag experience.


then what happens when u stall (you cant say it never happens) it takes you 4x longer to start back up then with a button, fold out the kcik and kick it over 1-100000 times vs. pressing a button .Let me ask you this --- what happens when you're in a race and stall the quad, and you suddenly realize your magic button has failed for whatever reason?

I maintain my quad probably more than 99% of the forum members here - yet this has happened about 5 times to me, for various reasons, since I've been racing my 400EX. You can bet during thost times I was cussing the quad not having a simple yet effective & reliable method of starting like a kick starter....

Arguments can be made both ways on the electric vs kick just like they can for various aspects of these two machines. There's a lot of halftruths and misinformation floating around out there. We can only be thankful we have the choice now. Two excellent performing 450cc quads are available to choose from - and despice what brand loyal owners will tell you, whichever you choose isn't going to have the effect on how many races you win or lose as it has in the past.

Choose your color, which has the best feature set and/or advantages for you and go with it.

[Honda]

I can remember my Yamaha Warrior (All 350+ Pounds of her) Sucked when it decided not to start.

Ain't nothing like Trying to Push Start your Quad through Mud, Tree Limbs, etc. I remember pushing that thing until I was gasping for air and Cursing the Lord!

I can't count how many times I asked my self why they didn't put an auxilary kick starter on it.

The 450R is so easy to start anyway! :rolleyes:

[Blown 331]

Is it just me or do you guys think the 450R needs a heated power seat and a CD player?

[Honda]

I think it needs Reverse with a Back-up alarm (just in case). Hell throw some heated Grips and a Windshield on too.

:D

[DangerousDean]

man you guys are so hardcore

I agree it would suck to have your battery or something electrical **** up on you, and it would be ncie to have a backup starter.


but do you think your cool? "oh you guys are wuss's becuase u arnt a big enough man to push your leg down on a peice of aluminum."

I jsut think having a kickstart is a pain in the ***, and why would you WANT to limit your self?

you dont amke your quads ridgid becuase shocks can blow up do you
??

[Blown 331]

Originally posted by DangerousDean
man you guys are so hardcore

I agree it would suck to have your battery or something electrical **** up on you, and it would be ncie to have a backup starter.


but do you think your cool? "oh you guys are wuss's becuase u arnt a big enough man to push your leg down on a peice of aluminum."

I jsut think having a kickstart is a pain in the ***, and why would you WANT to limit your self?

you dont amke your quads ridgid becuase shocks can blow up do you
??


I have a 1982 ATC200 and it doesn't have shocks. You can finish a race with a blow shock.

In my opinons a sport model 4-wheeler is basically a 4-wheeled dirt bike. Dirt bikes don't have starter so neither should a sport model 4-wheeler. It's unnessary weight too. Hell a 450R is even lighter than a 300EX.

[Honda]

man you guys are so hardcore

I agree it would suck to have your battery or something electrical **** up on you, and it would be ncie to have a backup starter.


but do you think your cool? "oh you guys are wuss's becuase u arnt a big enough man to push your leg down on a peice of aluminum."

I jsut think having a kickstart is a pain in the ***, and why would you WANT to limit your self?

you dont amke your quads ridgid becuase shocks can blow up do you
??

O.K. That post was about Lame!

To each his own! I hate kick starters! Maybe on a utility Quad, but not by Race Bike.

Thank You Honda! Thank you SOooooooo Much for leaving The Battery and extra Crap off my -R-!!!


I jsut think having a kickstart is a pain in the ***, and why would you WANT to limit your self?

What?

[jarsong]

Originally posted by Hammer trx450r
to be honest it isnt a problem for me at all. Haveing to worry about the battery would suck more. batteries are pretty heavy too

2 pound diff between the two... Couple hundred dollars and you to can have a kicker on the YFZ. Put yourself in an off severe off camber situation, all muddy.... I'll take the button...
jarsong

[jarsong]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
don't forget to mention that the TRX has a 10MPH top end advantage to a YFZ stock for stock.



Are you saying the 450R will do 84- ish MPH?
jarsong

[86atc250r]

2 pound diff between the two...

2lbs difference? Have you actually weighed the two? Obviously not. I'll be honest, I haven't personally weighed the YFZ. However, I have seen what others are coming up with & I have weighed the 450R - and I can tell you the difference certainly appears to be substantially more than two lbs.


Put yourself in an off severe off camber situation, all muddy.... I'll take the button...

I can certainly appreciate that being an old 3-wheeler rider, but at the same time, being an old 3-wheeler rider, I know it's not nearly as big a deal as some make it out to be - especially when you're on a quad...

As I said before, arguements can be made for both - put yourself in a race situation, stalled quad, and magic button doesn't work - I'll take the kicker. In my race experience, I'll say that scenario has happened to me more times and cost me several more minutes than being stalled out in a mudhole or on a nasty, muddy offcamber. I can give more examples but we'll leave it at that.

If I had time, I'd like to dig up all the old posts where people were complaining about e-starters a year ago and how everyone wished the manufacturers would come out with a kicker quad. Funny how people's tunes change when they buy a particular machine.


Couple hundred dollars and you to can have a kicker on the YFZ.

Problem with that is that the kicker on the YFZ was an afterthought. When you go to the kicker on the YFZ you start to have problems with the electrical system and more difficult starting - Honda went to great pains to make the TRX start easily and it shows immediately. The quad will also idle, run the lights and fan without any trouble.

Spending the few hundered dollars for the kicker kit and leaving the electric in place is a nice idea, but is how it should have been built in the first place if they were going to make it electric & would have been all that much better had they actually designed it with that in mind in the first place.

The cool thing is that you have a choice - if the e-start really means that much to you then your choice is simple - the YFZ. If it doesn't then the 450R is a good choice as well while at the same time weighing less and not having the disadvantages of converting a YFZ to kick only.


Are you saying the 450R will do 84- ish MPH?

That was a rough figure that pertained more to the gearing itself than absolute top numbers which will always be in dispute. There is absolutely no doubting that the TRX is geared quite a bit taller than a YFZ if you have a head on your shoulders and can figure some simple math.

Both turning 9500 RPM in top gear equates to 10 MPH top end difference - a substantial gearing difference - this gearing difference holds true from 1st to 5th (percentage wise).

My point was (in case you missed it) - if you are going to race a 300' race and want to make a halfway equal comparison you need to make sure your gearing is suited to the application.

I'm certainly sure one of you YFZ owners would have mentioned this same thing had someone started making a bunch of noise about the 450R having a better top speed or winning long drags.

In my experience, in the 300' you will reach somewhere in the low to mid 50 mph range with one of these quads if you're a good rider. You also want to be somewhere near peak torque when you cross the line.

To equally gear the TRX and YFZ you must drop two teeth on the front sprocket of the TRX (this will practically equal them thru all 5) - what do you suppose that will do to acceleration and these already close drag races that tend to go either way.

That's all beside the point though - a 1.5 to 2.3 second difference in the two is ludacris & anyone that has any 300' experience would know that immediately. Not only that, but someone that makes 300' runs one second apart isn't consistant enough to be judging fine differences between quads anyhow.

What I don't get is why all you YFZ hard cores come over here to start fights. Are you guys really that concerned about the TRX? Logic dictates that if you did not see it as a threat, you would not be posting - I haven't seen very many of you wasting your time beating your chests at 300ex or warrior owners...

What I particularly don't get is many of you that continuously tell us how much better the YFZ is, still have not even seen a TRX in person, yet alone spent any significant time on one.

Why not just chill, enjoy your ride and quite posting all the BS about how much better yours is.

[biohazard1.2]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 86atc250r
[B]Biohazard - you have to be kidding. One to more than Two seconds faster in a 300' drag?

First of all thost numbers are absoultely ridiculous. Second of all, if you're that inconsistant - how can you possibly get any accurate tests. Third of all, the 450R is not geared nearly as well for a 300' drag as a YFZ and if you want to compare stock gearing to stock gearing, don't forget to mention that the TRX has a 10MPH top end advantage to a YFZ stock for stock.

(Bio response)RU serious? You must be a kid or a couch potato. Get off your large flattened *** and DO IT YOURSELF. If someone is ingnorant enough to let you ride their YFZ
...the slow run was my first on the TRX...the fastest run was the last. I am sure with more time on the seat, I could have gotten a diff of under 1.2 tics

(you)Even if the TRX was geared stock and the throttle wasn't adjusted properly, I can not see anywhere near a full second differential - the difference between a stock 400EX and a YFZ isn't even a full second unless there is a serious rider or traction discrepency.
If you're going to spread this kind of blantant BS - do it somewhere where people don't have 300' drag experience...

(me)You obviously have been on the Honda teat too long. Yes they have the rep for making the best products period. (all of my power equip is either Honda or Stihl), but, there is not a YFZ killer in the lineup...just deal with it. the blantant BS is that the TRX is as fast or as quick as the YFZ with like set ups. And, I hope you get to have a 300' drag soon...I know some have exp in this on here, but, you do not....it is terribly obvious. one-one thousand, two-one thousand...2 seconds is that quick...and, we were using a Tag HEUER Chronograph.

(you)Let me ask you this --- what happens when you're in a race and stall the quad, and you suddenly realize your magic button has failed for whatever reason?

(me) I do not race anymore (organized/competitively)...and what if you are in such a hurry to kick your quad over after a stall that you have some trouble getting the kicker out...your gloves are muddy, the kicker is muddy and you do not kick it squarely forward and the kicker ends up wedged into the space between the motor/frame/radiator? good luck. what if your rear shock breaks linkage and goes thru your seat and up your ***? Could you finish the race? what if the mexicans launch a preemptive nuke attack...what if...what if.......WHATEVER.


I have had zero trouble with the YFZ since I got it. Your TRX is no match in a 300' drag (100yds).P.E.R.I.O.D....unless you pull it behind a nitro banshee.

If the truth hurts, stick your head in the sand and wait...it could be worse.