wv link

[Pappy]

wv links (http://www.koontzadventures.com/off-road_schedule_page.htm)


sorry folks this is so i dont forget my schedule:p

[crayfz]

Need more info...starting times...directions.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by crayfz
Need more info...starting times...directions.

hahaha me too:p there is another thread about this series but they didnt provide a link to the promoters home page:mad:

[MooseRacing]

PK Offroad Series (http://www.koontzadventures.com)

Quads race first at his races....and expect around 100 entries and the tracks are half as lond as GNCC, but twice as hard!!!


There will be a race at Tomahawk, in which the track is pretty tame!

And he is also having a race at Summersville before GNCC does....good opportunity to check out the terrain!!!!

[cdalejef]

Nice, I love the Elkins track!

[Pappy]

im going sunday ....was thinkin of racing until i heard it was a rock garden:(

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by Pappy
im going sunday ....was thinkin of racing until i heard it was a rock garden:(

[Pappy]

i need balls:(

[MooseRacing]

He seems to like to lay out tracks using lots of water crossings and rock piles!!

2 years ago at Parsons, WV he ran us down a creek bed for atleast 300 yards!!!

He has a new race at the Timberline Ski Resort this year also!!

[Pappy]

i still cant see purposly designing a course that will damage the quads. i dont wanna see a golf course or nothing, but the average racer is spending a boatload of money replacing parts, even at local races. there can be a happy median reached between difficulty and torture:p

[Teufel]

I prefer the rough technical tracks, alot of the gncc's are more of a gran prix or quad cross in the past few years. It amazes me when people complain about rocks and trees at a XC/Harescramble

[Pappy]

prime example was the wisp gncc in 2002 as compared to the 2003 course. it was still a challenging course yet there wasnt the heavy damage done to the quads. running people thru certain sections just to see what will break isnt good:p none are as ruff as the blackwater was but i still firmly believe in my statement.


and to further grow the sport it will take a bit of compromise and thinking to help new racers get in and want to stay in it.

[MooseRacing]

I think the more technical the better.....plus it slows people down resulting in less high speed crashes......the GNCCs are getting faster and faster and as a participant sport where anybody from a pro to a guy who bought a quad yesterday can come out and race, the high speeds create high risk!

The PK races are great and it a lot fun to get back to the roots of XC racing!


1 word: BLACKWATER

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by MooseRacing
He seems to like to lay out tracks using lots of water crossings and rock piles!!

2 years ago at Parsons, WV he ran us down a creek bed for atleast 300 yards!!!

He has a new race at the Timberline Ski Resort this year also!! Now I'm really getting wood!:devil:

[MooseRacing]

In my opinion there was absolutly nothing challenging about Wisp 2003....about a 1 mile section of some rocks and few semi tight trees....other than that everything was wide open 5th gear pinned. I never ran that fast in my life other than Mathews farms.

There could have been some serious injuries on the back side of the mountain on the fire road...when you run 5th gear wide open and come to a water break you have no control, there were a ton of wrecks back there, but everyone was lucky.

Speed kills...technical and slower is safer and can be fun....The GNCC in VA was technical and a lot of fun.

Just giving my .02 cents.
Opinions are like sphincters....everyone has one

[Pappy]

i completely agree about the WFO sections. and technical is one thing as compared to down right dangerous.


i think they figured rain for wisp and that created the course change.

[MooseRacing]

If you look back at the GNCC races of yesteryear and the quads they had then....those guys were animals.

Today the quads and bikes are so much superior with new technology, better suspension, better tires, better everything...including better trained riders....the tracks need to get a little harder, just to keep competition at the level it should be.

There shouldnt be anything stupid like 5 foot deep water crossings or 90 degree uphills or crossing 6 foot diameter logs, but we are racing woods races....not european grass track.

Pappy....you got a hell of a thread going....must be in the WV water!:D

[Pappy]

well i geuss im just getting older and wiser:p i listen alot when im at the races, and i hear alot of negativity regarding the course's. i hear the same at mx races so its not just gncc's or hare scrambles. hell i remeber showing up for my first ever hare scramble on a bone stock LT500 and couldnt get thru a few sections without "going around" the tight stuff:p

the races of yesteryear...i dont remeber them being as tuff or ruff as todays but that maybe because the speeds have increased so much. and as stated, the quads and components have improved so much. and now with "tire balls" flats are a thing of the past for those that can afford them.

i just like to see good close racing, not a 2 hour torture test to see who can win by not having thier quad fall apart:D

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by MooseRacing

There shouldnt be anything stupid like 5 foot deep water crossings or 90 degree uphills or crossing 6 foot diameter logs, but we are racing woods races....not european grass track.
LOL....you just described The Moose run in IL. Now that is a fun race!!!

[MooseRacing]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
LOL....you just described The Moose run in IL. Now that is a fun race!!!

Jeff...Thats a different story! Not many GNCC guys will attempt the legendary Moose Run. And yes suspended 6 foot diameter logs and giant mud bogs are norm there.

By the way Bill Gussie, founder of the run, has started a new series. The Parts Unlimited Off Road Series for quads and bikes and it does include the Moose Run.

http://www.unitedoffroadracing.com/2004omaschedule.php

OMA Series (http://www.unitedoffroadracing.com/2004omaschedule.php)

[cdalejef]

Ya, I saw that. I wish they were closer to me. I had a ball at The Moose run, I even won 4-stroke A on an XR400. Bill Gussie is a sick sick man!

[Wingnut]

Originally posted by Pappy
i listen alot when im at the races, and i hear alot of negativity regarding the course's.

You've got me curious, in what way are they complaining about the track? Too easy or hard?

I like tracks like the Wisp and Taylortown superspeedways. I also like the more technical tracks like Rausch Creek and '02 Wisp. The only ones I don't like are the ones inbetween, like the Patriot, Loretta Lynn's, and Big Buck this past year. Tracks like that are boring in my opinion.

[Pappy]

mainly the things ive heard are related to certain areas of the course. it varies, maybe a certain section or hillclimb etc. i realize its hard to please everyone and that designing a course is harder then most realize. and each track/course will have its own section that will snarl alot of riders. its quite possible the weather was the main reason for most of the complaints ....we all know a simple hill or creek crossing thats turned into a monster when rain is added:p

i had several people warn me not to run wisp in 03 due to the carnage delt by that course in 02. i listened and probably missed one of the best races last season.

i was also warned of tomohawk ...what will be my local track. i went and walked a portion of that course and didnt see much that would overly concern me so alot of what people say may not apply to anyone else:cool:

i geuss it comes down to being able to adapt to the different terrain encountered and keep the hammerdown no matter what:macho

[cletusEX]

I race D-7 and I don't understand how people complain about a track like Tomahawk. It is tight and more technical than some of the others, like Budds Creek, but it is not overly tough on parts and riders.

[MooseRacing]

Amen brother!

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
LOL....you just described The Moose run in IL. Now that is a fun race!!!

That was my first ever HS. It was more brutal on the body, but nothing terribly techinical.

I thought the crossing of the river was kind of funny on the steel girder type things. The guy at the starting line said don't be stupid and try and pass anyone there.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by Doibugu2
That was my first ever HS. It was more brutal on the body, but nothing terribly techinical.

I thought the crossing of the river was kind of funny on the steel girder type things. The guy at the starting line said don't be stupid and try and pass anyone there. Did you run the bike or the quad track?

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
Did you run the bike or the quad track?

I'm not sure, we all ran the same track. Don't remember there being two seperate ones.

mbiigamber from here raced there also, and he said the track was a little different than last years.

[03GNCC270]

I like the more technical tracks like sparta, steel creek and big buck. the one like taylorstown last year are the ones that are boring to me. the tighter the course the more I like them. The wide open stuff does not show a riders true skills.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by cletusEX
I race D-7 and I don't understand how people complain about a track like Tomahawk. It is tight and more technical than some of the others, like Budds Creek, but it is not overly tough on parts and riders.

and i have yet to attend a budds creek event, but from what im told its wide open ..cake walk type of track. lol...my luck it will be exactly 1 inch wider then my quad:p

[MooseRacing]

The Moose Run always uses 2 seperate tracks for bikes and quads....the quads cannot get through some of the obstacles Gussie lays out for the bikes.

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by MooseRacing
The Moose Run always uses 2 seperate tracks for bikes and quads....the quads cannot get through some of the obstacles Gussie lays out for the bikes.

I was talking about the MX section. I thought that was what Jeff was refering to.

Other than the MX section I have no idea what the bikes ran. If I remember correctly they went the complete opposite direction after crossing the creek. But I'm not sure about that.

[ltz400/400ex]

Jeff, what races is everyone planning on running in the Pk series. I try to go to as many as i can.

[Chino]

i'd be there tomrow with you pappy, if i wasnt' stuck down with the sinus infection. Hopefully i can hit it up next sunday and run with ya. I love pk's tracks, there so challenging, but yet fun. There are some things that are kinda crazy. Usually at parsons he has some kinda crazy up hill or downhill, but usually there is a "puss path" to the side :D

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by Doibugu2
I was talking about the MX section. I thought that was what Jeff was refering to.

Other than the MX section I have no idea what the bikes ran. If I remember correctly they went the complete opposite direction after crossing the creek. But I'm not sure about that. We must be talking about different races. The one I'm talking about doesn't have an MX track, the quads and bikes don't even race in the same location.

LTZ400.....what is the PK series?