Tested both the YFZ and TRX today! [Archive]

2004TRX450R

02-09-2004, 02:02 AM

I had a chance to ride both bikes side by side today and this is what I think. The YFZ had an HMF full exhaust system and jet kit installed and the TRX had the HRC kit installed. The Yamaha does "feel" like it has more power and it "feels" like it has more down low in the rpm range than the Honda. The TRX feels like it just pulls for ever on top. Several of us rode them back to back and the majority said they liked the power of the YFZ better. It "felt" stronger. Also most liked the suspension, seat, and ergonomics of the Honda better. Only 2 (one was the owner and is pretty short) people out of 5 liked the way they sat on the YFZ but noone liked the seat. All but one person liked my TRX better overall than the YFZ but the one girl that rode it had a hard time starting my TRX. She was a begining rider and used to starting a Banshee. Not that it is hard to start by any means but she just doesn't have any technique in starting it as she has never started a bike like this before. Then we drag raced. I weigh about 230 and the guy on the YFZ weighs about 160. The first race I screwd up the start and wheelied it. He had about a bike length on me when I got it moveing and we stayed pretty much the same distance the entire race. Then we raced on the way back both getting an equal start. We were both neck and neck the whole race. So these bikes are VERY close in power. My brother rode it back to the truck and said on the whoops it just couldn't be ridden to fast. He said he just kept giveing it more throttle and it just kept going faster and faster and it just soaked them up. He couldn't get it going to fast to handle them. I just can't wait until I get my hi comp piston and head work done. Then I think I will get a Duncan full system and it will be done for awhile until I can recoup some funds.

lukester720

02-09-2004, 02:48 AM

I like hearing comparisons like this one. Thanks!

JOEX

02-09-2004, 03:16 AM

Originally posted by lukester720
I like hearing comparisons like this one. Thanks!
Same here!:macho

450r_rider

02-09-2004, 07:14 AM

Great post!
Pretty much how I thought it was going to be.... Both bikes are so close it's gonna be up to the rider and or mods that can be made... I like that! It's going to be an interesting summer.
:macho Let's Ride! :macho

seatec

02-09-2004, 07:25 AM

Actually, considering the weight of you and the other rider it seems like you on the TRX had a dis-advantage. if you where 160 you might of pulled ahead!? Thanx for the info.

seatec

02-09-2004, 07:30 AM

Can anyone with a TRX450 tell me what the final drive gear ratio's are? What are the stock COunter and rear sprockets and what are the stock tire diameters. Stuff like that has a profound impact on drag races like that.
Does anybody else wonder?

dirtmomma

02-09-2004, 08:01 AM

Cool :cool: I've been reading & sitting on both of them also, I like the yammi better but I think thats because I'm only 5' & I think it's smaller than the honda, I def, DIDN'T like the seat on either one BUT felt like I was reaching way out to hold onto the bars!! I did ride the yammi last summer in a drag race & that thing was awesome!! I would like to get the yammi BUT since the hubby is a HONDA man I DONT' see that happening until I get a decent job & can pay for it on my own, GOD FORBID we'd have 3 YAMAHA'S in the yard LMAO!!! I guess I could sell the Kodiak for a down pymt BUT I love that quad & it's my cadillac & workhorse.

Nice review,2004TRX450R, were ya at the dunes?? If so which ones??

2004TRX450R

02-09-2004, 11:07 AM

Originally posted by seatec
Actually, considering the weight of you and the other rider it seems like you on the TRX had a dis-advantage. if you where 160 you might of pulled ahead!? Thanx for the info.

This is very true. I wanted to race a couple times and switch bikes and do it again but it was already dark and the first run he went through a fire pit that he didn't see until to late and the run on the way back a dumb *** in a chev pickup pulled right out in front of us. Luckily enough it was at the end of the strip we were raceing on so it didn't really effect the outcome to much.

Originally posted by dirtmomma
Nice review,2004TRX450R, were ya at the dunes?? If so which ones??

Ya we were at Moses Lake. I think we are headed for winchester in a couple of weeks.

Barely legal

02-09-2004, 02:31 PM

Nice informative post.

The Honda had the full HRC kit with cam but the YFZ had stock cam timing right?

2004TRX450R

02-09-2004, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Barely legal
Nice informative post.

The Honda had the full HRC kit with cam but the YFZ had stock cam timing right?

Ya stock cam timeing with the HMF full system and jet kit. We're probably going to do the cam mod to the YFZ but from what I have heard it doesn't make a very big difference. I have done it to a couple but I could only ride them in the parking lot at work so I couldn't really see what they did.

Barely legal

02-09-2004, 08:06 PM

It helps a lot. 3 more HP or so if done right. It turned mine into a totally different animal and as I got it more dialed and tweaked on the A/F side along with other odds n ends I can really see the HP benefits throughout the power band.

ml450r

02-09-2004, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by Barely legal
It helps a lot. 3 more HP or so if done right. It turned mine into a totally different animal and as I got it more dialed and tweaked on the A/F side along with other odds n ends I can really see the HP benefits throughout the power band. :rolleyes:

BigThumper33

02-09-2004, 08:26 PM

Originally posted by ml450r
:rolleyes:

Glad I'm not the only one! lol

BSTURDIVANT

02-09-2004, 08:33 PM

Cam mod worth 1Hp on top according to GT Thunders dyno runs.

Scottie Mac

02-09-2004, 09:17 PM

AHhhhhhhh... accordin to GT thunder (Laz), the cam mod add as much as 5 hp at 8000 rpm:

Cam mod graph on YFZ Central (http://www.yfzcentral.com/invision/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=4662&st=0)

I know ml450r is rolling his eyes as I type this....

Scott

BSTURDIVANT

02-09-2004, 09:35 PM

If you go to his original dyno runs you will see that the first graph had the blue line stock, and the others were everything the same except the cam mod.

Scottie Mac

02-10-2004, 06:41 AM

Cam Mod with correct jetting and air box lid removed was +5hp at 8K rpm. It is right there on the graph.

Scott

2004TRX450R

02-10-2004, 09:14 AM

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
Cam Mod with correct jetting and air box lid removed was +5hp at 8K rpm. It is right there on the graph.

Scott

If you look at the second graph in the thread the run with the "High torque slip on with lid removed" makes almost the same power curve but has a little more on bottom and the cam mod run has about 1hp or less over it at the very top of the rpm range. So that shows what someeone else said that in stock form it may make a big difference but after you put a pipe on it and remove the air box lid it doesn't make much difference at all.

jarsong

02-10-2004, 09:51 AM

On my YFZ I'm not going to say it didn't have low end it just was tall gear and you had to pay attention starting off. Most people kill it the first couple tries to take off. Once moving it would explode from Idle to the top. Now after the Cam mod, jetting and such the bottom end deal is gone. Now it takes off as easy as the z400 we also have and pull EVEN and HARD from dead stop idle to the rev limiter in every gear. Will effortlessly pull the front end off the ground in 4th and hold it there to the red line. Nuts. All this low end talk is goofy.

http://www.eskimo.com/~daddog/videos/modunmo.wmv

THis is the best illistration yet of what the cam mod will do to the YFZ.... If a stock YFZ can take a HRC 450R wait til they run against the cam modded/jetted maching.
jarsong

Pappy

02-10-2004, 09:55 AM

my seat of the pants evaluation of the yfz was that it felt like a 250r r in relation to how the power came on.

quadrcr161

02-10-2004, 09:59 AM

thats what a guy said about my 450r sunday evening. he use to race a 250r with me and said it felt like one, but the power was smoother then the 250r. as soon as he sells his cr250 he is going to get the trx

Pappy

02-10-2004, 10:03 AM

i didnt think the 450r felt like a R at all. it didnt handle like one and the power was much smoother when it came on. the 450r has a broad usable powerband where as the yfz feels peeky ..atleast when bone stock. i prefer the thrill factor of a R so i really like the yfz....but the trx450r is more user friendly. dont let user friendly foll ya...it hauls *** too:devil:

Barely legal

02-10-2004, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by jarsong
On my YFZ I'm not going to say it didn't have low end it just was tall gear and you had to pay attention starting off. Most people kill it the first couple tries to take off. Once moving it would explode from Idle to the top. Now after the Cam mod, jetting and such the bottom end deal is gone. Now it takes off as easy as the z400 we also have and pull EVEN and HARD from dead stop idle to the rev limiter in every gear. Will effortlessly pull the front end off the ground in 4th and hold it there to the red line. Nuts. All this low end talk is goofy.

http://www.eskimo.com/~daddog/videos/modunmo.wmv

THis is the best illistration yet of what the cam mod will do to the YFZ.... If a stock YFZ can take a HRC 450R wait til they run against the cam modded/jetted maching.
jarsong

I agree completely. What you are describing has been my experience. The YFZ does lack some bottom end stock. but when you add the slipon it's almost too much. Doing the cam mods smooths it out and it will carry the front in 4th to red line with a rider well over 200 lbs.

Barely legal

02-10-2004, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
If you look at the second graph in the thread the run with the "High torque slip on with lid removed" makes almost the same power curve but has a little more on bottom and the cam mod run has about 1hp or less over it at the very top of the rpm range. So that shows what someeone else said that in stock form it may make a big difference but after you put a pipe on it and remove the air box lid it doesn't make much difference at all.

I can tell you from experience that there is no validity to the above quote.
It makes a HUGE difference when done correctly. A slipon, no lid and the cam mod will add about 11 HP to a YFZ, taking it from 40-51. The cam mod is about 4-5 of those ponies and just makes the YFZ insane.
This is just not degreeing a cam to change it's exhaust and intake events, shifting the power band around. This is a dual overhead cam. By doing the cam mod you are increasing overlap and exhaust scavaging making more power throughout the band.

thomez

02-10-2004, 10:54 AM

That sounds great but in practice it just doesn't show on the dyno. If you look at GT Thunder when he has all the other mods done and then does the cam mod, the difference is minimal between the 2. I think the cam mod is maybe over-rated while opening the intake/exhaust is under-rated. But.. whatever :macho

jarsong

02-10-2004, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by thomez
That sounds great but in practice it just doesn't show on the dyno. If you look at GT Thunder when he has all the other mods done and then does the cam mod, the difference is minimal between the 2. I think the cam mod is maybe over-rated while opening the intake/exhaust is under-rated. But.. whatever :macho

THat's why Dyno racing is stupid. Line them up and find out the truth to all the tourque/HP discussions. The YFZ that is so called "Lacking" here and there seem to be on the top of every shootout. I WISH someone around me had a 450R.
jarsong

markeg192

02-10-2004, 07:30 PM

TRX 450R Information???????

joe1l

02-10-2004, 08:13 PM

I tell you what, all this rivalry really makes this class of ATV real fun. It is becoming just like the age old Mustang/Camaro rivalry. This will always make for an interesting day at the local riding spot, because chances are there will be a TRX/YFZ race, some days the trx will win, and some the yfz.

I think people are taking too much faith in the small modifications. I figure the best way to find out which one will have more power, is to ask your engine builder of choice. I have checked with a few and they have all told me the same thing...they both will make just about the same power. It will all come down to how much a person wants to spend in the end:devil: and how well its tuned!! Instead of these constant pissing matches on these forums, people should meet down at a spot and race to see which bike is really faster!!

BigThumper33

02-10-2004, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by jarsong
On my YFZ I'm not going to say it didn't have low end it just was tall gear and you had to pay attention starting off. Most people kill it the first couple tries to take off. Once moving it would explode from Idle to the top. Now after the Cam mod, jetting and such the bottom end deal is gone. Now it takes off as easy as the z400 we also have and pull EVEN and HARD from dead stop idle to the rev limiter in every gear. Will effortlessly pull the front end off the ground in 4th and hold it there to the red line. Nuts. All this low end talk is goofy.

http://www.eskimo.com/~daddog/videos/modunmo.wmv

THis is the best illistration yet of what the cam mod will do to the YFZ.... If a stock YFZ can take a HRC 450R wait til they run against the cam modded/jetted maching.
jarsong

No offense, but after watching the video it is obvious the white yfz either has a pipe or its stock unit has been gutted out. The white one is a hell of a lot louder than the blue one. You can really tell when they come back up to the cameraman. :rolleyes:

joe1l

02-10-2004, 09:01 PM

I just watched the video there is something strange going on...I've seen drags between 250r's that were 15-20 hp differences and the 75 hp 250r only had 6 quad lengths on a 250r with 60 hp!! and a 45hp R was about 4 behind the 60hp one. What you guys are saying here is that 5 hp added to a yfz450r will give 6 quad lengths on a stock YFZ450. That seems a bit strange, was the guy on the blue quad at full throttle? I've seen closer races between banshee's and warriors! Any how , I agree with Big Thumper, the white 450 does sound a bit louder, maybe the white one has some head porting, done or quite possibly he is on the bottle!

2004TRX450R

02-11-2004, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by Barely legal
I can tell you from experience that there is no validity to the above quote.
It makes a HUGE difference when done correctly. A slipon, no lid and the cam mod will add about 11 HP to a YFZ, taking it from 40-51. The cam mod is about 4-5 of those ponies and just makes the YFZ insane.
This is just not degreeing a cam to change it's exhaust and intake events, shifting the power band around. This is a dual overhead cam. By doing the cam mod you are increasing overlap and exhaust scavaging making more power throughout the band.

You obviously didn't even read my post because you are talking about something completely different. The post I made is merely an observation of the dyno graph. Nothing more. I also think you are in some pipe dream with those numbers but who knows maybe you got one that runs a lot better than the rest or something.:confused: The dyno graph that I was refering to proves what you are saying wrong. The cam mod in that graph shows barely any increase in power over the run without the air box lid and with the exhaust system. Also with the cam mod all you are changing is the exhaust valve timeing. NOT the intake. By doing this it raises the power in the power band to a higher rpm and make a little more power. That is why the YZs come this way and the WRs come with the exhaust cam like the YFZs. It is to make more peak power in the YZ for raceing and more torque and low end power for the WR as a trail/woods bike.

Originally posted by joe1l
I just watched the video there is something strange going on...I've seen drags between 250r's that were 15-20 hp differences and the 75 hp 250r only had 6 quad lengths on a 250r with 60 hp!! and a 45hp R was about 4 behind the 60hp one. What you guys are saying here is that 5 hp added to a yfz450r will give 6 quad lengths on a stock YFZ450. That seems a bit strange, was the guy on the blue quad at full throttle? I've seen closer races between banshee's and warriors! Any how , I agree with Big Thumper, the white 450 does sound a bit louder, maybe the white one has some head porting, done or quite possibly he is on the bottle!

I agree. The faster one obvioulsy has some kind of pipe on it and has more done than just the cam mod. Also even with the cam mod and pipe it seems like a very big gap for two bikes with 5-10hp difference. But who knows? I wasn't there to see it so I can't confirm nor deny it.:confused:

biohazard1.2

02-11-2004, 03:33 AM

Originally posted by jarsong
THat's why Dyno racing is stupid. Line them up and find out the truth to all the tourque/HP discussions. The YFZ that is so called "Lacking" here and there seem to be on the top of every shootout. I WISH someone around me had a 450R.
jarsong

Well said.

unbiased

02-11-2004, 08:43 AM

I have 2 YFZ's and they were both stock. Me and my buddy who weigh about the same with similiar skill raced them several times and they were dead even. I did the cam mod to one of them and we raced again several times. The bike with the cam mod won by 1 1/2 lengths as we hit top speed. we raced on concrete.
It's worth doing, but its a 1 or 2 hp mod. Now with a pipe/filter it may help more or less.

joe1l

02-11-2004, 10:22 AM

thomez

02-11-2004, 10:27 AM

Did you re-jet after the cam-mod?

JWhite

02-11-2004, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Barely legal
The cam mod is about 4-5 of those ponies and just makes the YFZ insane.

4-5 ponies! HAHAHAHA! And you actually believe this?

rtyfz450

02-11-2004, 11:01 AM

I rode at glamis this weekend and I go there about 20 times a year so we see everything go down the drags. I saw quite a few new 450rs out there. No one would race me up olds and I was really dissappointed. I know my bike has a pipe and filter on it but at least try to race me. Then on saturday night at the drags I saw one guy out there on an r and he was doing pretty good agianst raptors, z400 and the rest so I quickly raced over and lined up. his bike had a hcr kit and haulers, 8 paddles, on it and there was a 250r pipe and I don't know what else plus about every other sport bike out there the 450r got a good jump on the line (I waited for him to go) a drag banshee was already out in front so was a raptor I nailed the throttle and pulled away from everything and ran about 1 length ahead of the banshee who was close on the right. the 450r got passed by the 250r and a raptor (with pipe and who knows what else)

Overall I think it did pretty good but I can't stand how all these people come to the drags and brag about the 450r and won't race it. same way at Olds I asked about 4 people to shoot the hill and the all said no.

BigThumper33

02-11-2004, 11:10 AM

so let me get this straight. You waited for the 450R to go...so you were slow off the line and still beat a drag banshee? LOL give me a break :rolleyes:

joe1l

02-11-2004, 11:40 AM

If that banshee was "drag banshee" that does sound quite far fetched...unless the banshee was just stock, then I could believe it. Well then again a 350lb guy could have been on the banshee...hence the loss.
;) :D :D

rtyfz450

02-11-2004, 11:50 AM

I wasn't slow off the line I said I waited for him to hit the gas. the banshee was on his side and leaped off first before he did then the rest of the group left. If you have ever been to the drags at glamis you would know how it goes there are alot of people launching and it all happens very fast. Oh and by the way I have pics to prove this. Our group was all there and as soon as my girlfriend get the pics developed I will post. I am not asking you to believe anything just telling you what Happened. Yes I did beat a drag banshee and it is not hard to do but just to clarify what this drag banshee was. It was a 370 stroker with blaster pistons toomy t6s, pro design with filters, 4+ swing arm and a bunch of other stuff. I camped with him

jarsong

02-11-2004, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by BigThumper33
No offense, but after watching the video it is obvious the white yfz either has a pipe or its stock unit has been gutted out. The white one is a hell of a lot louder than the blue one. You can really tell when they come back up to the cameraman. :rolleyes:

It's not my video and I can only report what it is described as. Doddogrider seem to be an honest man though...
jarsong

jarsong

02-11-2004, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by thomez
Did you re-jet after the cam-mod?

If he didn't he actually lost power from being lean....
jarsong

BigThumper33

02-11-2004, 03:34 PM

how would adjusting the exhaust cam cause it to run lean? I'm just curious, considering it will be inhaling the same amount of air and fuel, you didn't mess with the intake...

He may be an honest guy, but that video definately is not. Listen when the white one goes by the camera and when the blue one does. You can see the stocker on the blue one but you can't see the white one. You can only HEAR it.

Whats funny is during the drag you can hear a loud roar, then it just stops, and you don't hear anything. Whats the chances of them both laying off the throttle at the same time? :rolleyes:

Got nads?

02-11-2004, 04:03 PM

Not that I am picking sides, but my my bro raced my buddies 370long rod banshee with his yfz.(Yfz only has baffle removed, cam mod, re jetted, gytr filter, for now!) And it was basically an even race, 3 times in a row. Even though this happened I'm still considering buying a 450R:devil: :o

rtyfz450

02-11-2004, 04:23 PM

you should consider buying the 450r looks like a great bike. I was actually trying to say that the bike did pretty good and I was suprised that it took a buch of people down the drags. I really want to race one with a pipe. I think it would be a great race.

Barely legal

02-11-2004, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
You obviously didn't even read my post because you are talking about something completely different. The post I made is merely an observation of the dyno graph. Nothing more. I also think you are in some pipe dream with those numbers but who knows maybe you got one that runs a lot better than the rest or something.:confused: The dyno graph that I was refering to proves what you are saying wrong. The cam mod in that graph shows barely any increase in power over the run without the air box lid and with the exhaust system. Also with the cam mod all you are changing is the exhaust valve timeing. NOT the intake. By doing this it raises the power in the power band to a higher rpm and make a little more power. That is why the YZs come this way and the WRs come with the exhaust cam like the YFZs. It is to make more peak power in the YZ for raceing and more torque and low end power for the WR as a trail/woods bike.

I agree. The faster one obvioulsy has some kind of pipe on it and has more done than just the cam mod. Also even with the cam mod and pipe it seems like a very big gap for two bikes with 5-10hp difference. But who knows? I wasn't there to see it so I can't confirm nor deny it.:confused:

Sure I read it. Now read mine. I HAVE DONE THE CAM MOD. I have been building and racing motors for 20 years. YES, the cam mod makes a huge difference. More than 1 HP. That is what you were claiming. I also did it after the pipe, airbox lid and air filter. You are getting more air into the motor so it makes the cam mod that much more effecient, not worse like you are saying. Your idea of it making less power is absurd based on engine dynamics.
Do you think that is a real dyno graph? It looks like transposed numbers onto a graph sheet to me, doing what they could to provide us with some info.
Like I said, been there done that. Stop downplaying what you know nothing about or have only read on. If you think the YFZ is that wimpy and are trying to justify it to make yourself feel better don't be all pissed when you line up against a correctly tuned one and get hammered.
bench/dyno/rag racing will get you out there in the world.

Barely legal

02-11-2004, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by biohazard1.2
Well said.

Very well said.

Barely legal

02-11-2004, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by unbiased
I have 2 YFZ's and they were both stock. Me and my buddy who weigh about the same with similiar skill raced them several times and they were dead even. I did the cam mod to one of them and we raced again several times. The bike with the cam mod won by 1 1/2 lengths as we hit top speed. we raced on concrete.
It's worth doing, but its a 1 or 2 hp mod. Now with a pipe/filter it may help more or less.

Play with your jetting a little more and it can be a 2.5 quad length improvement. I don't have any idea what's up with the dogrider videos. we tend to be wary of some of the things they do.

Barely legal

02-11-2004, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by JWhite
4-5 ponies! HAHAHAHA! And you actually believe this?

I don't give a damn if you do or not kid. I have the bike and have done the mod. Line 'em up.

BigThumper33

02-11-2004, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by Barely legal
Sure I read it. Now read mine. I HAVE DONE THE CAM MOD. I have been building and racing motors for 20 years. YES, the cam mod makes a huge difference. More than 1 HP. That is what you were claiming. I also did it after the pipe, airbox lid and air filter. You are getting more air into the motor so it makes the cam mod that much more effecient, not worse like you are saying. Your idea of it making less power is absurd based on engine dynamics.
Do you think that is a real dyno graph? It looks like transposed numbers onto a graph sheet to me, doing what they could to provide us with some info.
Like I said, been there done that. Stop downplaying what you know nothing about or have only read on. If you think the YFZ is that wimpy and are trying to justify it to make yourself feel better don't be all pissed when you line up against a correctly tuned one and get hammered.
bench/dyno/rag racing will get you out there in the world.

Trying to justify it to make himself feel better? Aren't you the yfz owner ranting and raving on a honda forum? :confused:

GT Thunder transposed those numbers onto the dyno graph? LOL okay. :rolleyes:

Seems to me like yfz owners are just pissed off cause the honda is actually giving them some competition.