Put my 450r on the dyno today.

[Bartman012]

I took my 450r to my local Honda shop today. They have a new DynoJet dyno. I already had the HRC kit installed. With that I was at just under 37hp. I put on a new HMF slip-on and the peak hp went to just over 37hp but I gained almost 5hp in the mid as well as 20% gain in torque. The tech told me that it was an incredible gain in torque. He had the numbers on a YFZ with a/m exhaust and no airbox etc. He was only at 38hp. Not even a full hp difference. He said the Honda had alot more torque than the YFZ. Not knocking the Yammi, just tired of hearing all the Honda bashing. I'm not even gonna worry about the peak HP. It's the torque that I like and the rideablility of the Honda. I may be able to scan the sheet if you'd like to see it.

[Pappy]

what!!! you didnt run slicks:eek: ;)

good info

[Bartman012]

No slicks. Where would a guy get slicks? Besides, I wouldn't ever use them again. He said the stock tires were fine. Most dirt bikes he puts a slick on but he didn't have them for a quad.

[jmpulse]

Those YFZ #'s seem low. I am not a Yahama fan, the the numbers with exaust and airbox that I have seen were in the mid 40's.

The shop really needs to invest dyno tires! Stock tires fail to transfer a lot of power to the dyno.

[remlapr]

This thread is doomed!

[roughrider01]

Dyno Jet dynos ALWAYS give lower numbers then other dynos, alot of big engine builders say that dj dynos are the most accurate. Put that 450r or yfz450 on a different dyno and you might get 5 or even 10 hp more.

[86atc250r]

Have you verified your throttle is set correctly?

[BIGRED400]

Ride Red Pappy, Ride Red...........;)

[ml450r]

That dyno report sounds accurate. These two bikes are very comparable. My YFZ has a HMF slip-on, and the TRX has the HRC kit installed and the bikes are already so close that each can win a drag race. The honda is the better racer because it will get more of the power to the ground though. I love both bikes though. I just think the honda will win a race with some or lower h.p. numbers.
Merrill

[Pappy]

Originally posted by BIGRED400
Ride Red Pappy, Ride Red...........;)

hahaha...i was remarking about the slicks due to the BS everyone gave HMF. i see that with slicks thier tests show a 49 hp reading on the piped yfz.


i really dont look at the dyno #.....although id love to use one to tune the quad and get it properly jetted:p

[Scottie Mac]

People, don't get all cought up in dyno numbers, hp numbers and torque numbers. Saying the Honda will be a better racer because of what a dyno reported is a bit bold.

Also, the cam mod adds a bunch of torque to the YFZ motor. DO you guys think the TRX motor with pipe and HRC kit is going to have as much hp and torque as a CRFpower quad with a TC exhaust? I don't think so. The CRF has close to 55hp stock. ANd there have been plenty of yfz's holeshotting full CRF powered (tc built) custom quads. Look at John Natallie at the Dirt Roit and the Glem Hellen race right after that.

All this armchair racing is the only good thing about the winter. At least this way we can have a little friendly competition until all the snow melts.

Scott

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
Also, the cam mod adds a bunch of torque to the YFZ motor. ....The CRF has close to 55hp stock.

The cam mod adds peak HP and looses some torque. At least tht is what it does on the WRs. A stock CRF is about 47 or 48ish hp on a dyno. Wich exhaust and race gas it will hit right at 50. I've run them on the dyno personally and that is what it did.

[jmoney45]

Originally posted by ml450r
That dyno report sounds accurate. These two bikes are very comparable. My YFZ has a HMF slip-on, and the TRX has the HRC kit installed and the bikes are already so close that each can win a drag race. The honda is the better racer because it will get more of the power to the ground though. I love both bikes though. I just think the honda will win a race with some or lower h.p. numbers.
Merrill

Now this is someone to listen to. Someone who actually owns both bikes. Can you provide any comparisons on which bike does what better, what you like about each one, ...

[joe1l]

Now this is someone to listen to. Someone who actually owns both bikes. Can you provide any comparisons on which bike does what better, what you like about each one, ...

I too would love to hear his unbiased opinion about both, but this thread will definately attract some flamers from both sides if he does that!!! If he posts, it will probably be the last post on this thread, because the next one will be FLAMED for sure hence causing the post to lock!!:eek2:

[greghall]

Originally posted by jmpulse
Those YFZ #'s seem low. I am not a Yahama fan, the the numbers with exaust and airbox that I have seen were in the mid 40's.

The shop really needs to invest dyno tires! Stock tires fail to transfer a lot of power to the dyno. mid fourty's no way! that's some serious HP out of it .its not impossible but would need some serious mods,also were are talking rear wheel HP with stock tires.

[trueblue450]

Originally posted by greghall
mid fourty's no way! that's some serious HP out of it .its not impossible but would need some serious mods,also were are talking rear wheel HP with stock tires.

read the new dirtwheels

yfz with gyrt pipe 44hp peak
trx450r white bros pipe 40 hp peak
both with lids off
do the hrc kit or cam mod and you can get a couple hp outta each

getting these bike up to 40hp is not hard at all

[ml450r]

Scottiemac,
If you were talking to me when you said "saying the Honda is a better racer due to dyno numbers", I wasn't making reference to the dyno. Dyno's mean nothing, but if you dyno both bikes on the same dyno, same day, that is a comparison. Also the cam mod on the YFZ is pretty much worthless. All it does is move your powerband up in the rpm range, also making it hit harder which is the main problem with the YFZ.


My opinion will be biased to MX racing only. I have been racing my YFZ since last aug. The chassis is set up for mx already. So as far as handling on the track I can't really compare. I will say the stock TRX shocks are bettter than the stock yamaha shocks, but either way I switch them to Axis. The Yamaha is fun to ride, it's powerful and hits like a two-stroke. It's a really stiff seat, but you stand alot in MX. I am only 5'11" and feel very cramped on it, too. The TRX has a much more useable powerband. More of the power gets to the ground. The bike is much more comfortable to ride. I think you can go faster longer on the Honda.

I have drag raced both (because of holeshot reasons). We have about 4" of snow here which makes all these races very innacurate. The TRX won every race by about three bikes, But I am sure that the YFZ will win the race on dry pavement. I have 2 TRX's, one already has the HRC kit installed the other is stock. I am racing all three bikes on the street this evening. I will post the results just for your knowledge if you'd like. But the winner of the race may not be the better bike...lol
Merrill

[joe1l]

My opinion will be biased to MX racing only. I have been racing my YFZ since last aug. The chassis is set up for mx already. So as far as handling on the track I can't really compare. I will say the stock TRX shocks are bettter than the stock yamaha shocks, but either way I switch them to Axis. The Yamaha is fun to ride, it's powerful and hits like a two-stroke. It's a really stiff seat, but you stand alot in MX. I am only 5'11" and feel very cramped on it, too. The TRX has a much more useable powerband. More of the power gets to the ground. The bike is much more comfortable to ride. I think you can go faster longer on the Honda.

Now this is the opinion i've been waiting for!!! I too am 5'11 and when I sat on the YFZ it felt a bit cramp to me, the way an mx bike should be, but I couldn't base my opinion totally from that. I wanted the bike that I could ride all weekend long in trails, and still go back to work on Monday without my ***** killing me!!:D and the comment about going faster longer, hit the nail on the head!! Thanks :cool: Looking forward to hear your drag results on dry payment tonight!!
Joe

[ml450r]

Just finished drag racing all 3 bikes. HRC equipped TRX, stock TRX, and YFZ (HMF slip on,K&N, no air lid).

Raced on dry pavement from a roll, HRC beats stock by 1 1/2 bikes.

The YFZ beat the stock TRX by 1 1/2 bikes.

HRC TRX and YFZ even every time.

I still have a full pipe coming for the TRX.

I raced thes bikes a dozen times, swiched riders, faster rolling starts, etc. I wouldn't believe it if I wasn't riding them. The Yamaha feels so much faster.

[ml450r]

I have pics I can email to someone if they'll post them.

[Bartman012]

What quad would you rather take on the trails/woods? If you could keep one quad, which would it be and why?

[ml450r]

The honda in trails, more comfortable.

http://www.msnusers.com/450rpics/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=2

http://www.msnusers.com/450rpics/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=1

[JWhite]

Originally posted by ml450r
The Yamaha feels so much faster.

That's because of the not so hot bottom and then you get that mid range hit that carries through into the top end.

The Honda has a totally different power delivery. More useful.

[ml450r]

Originally posted by JWhite
That's because of the not so hot bottom and then you get that mid range hit that carries through into the top end.

The Honda has a totally different power delivery. More useful.
That's what I said in my earlier post.

"I am only 5'11" and feel very cramped on it, too. The TRX has a much more useable powerband. More of the power gets to the ground. The bike is "

It's alot better power for racing mx.
Merrill

[Chevy454]

Check your PMs Merrill...

[stryker]

Nice post Ml450R!!

The next time you go out, break out your digital video camera and show us the race. I'm sure everyone here would 2nd that!!:cool: Oh, and nice Pic's too you lucky dog!!

:cool:

[lukester720]

Merrill did you have any trouble with putting you ac stadium bumper on your R? I had to grind the bottom holes down about an eighth of an inch. The nerfs went right on though.

[ml450r]

Yes, my front bumper was the same way, I haven't got my nerfs yet though.

[markeg192]

Merill , Thanks for a REAl comparision.

[Greg Z]

that is what iv been waiting for ml450! awsome:D

[joe1l]

Great post ml, so when do yo feel the Yamaha would be at an advantage?

[ml450r]

If I was riding in the sand or if I was building a motor to go fast for fun, the Yamaha feels faster and has the hard hitting power that is fun to ride. For MX the Honda is the better motor to start with in my opinion.

[avaloncon2]

Bobcat + 3 kickass quads= a whole lot of frickin fun.... lets be friends

Originally posted by ml450r
Just finished drag racing all 3 bikes. HRC equipped TRX, stock TRX, and YFZ (HMF slip on,K&N, no air lid).

Raced on dry pavement from a roll, HRC beats stock by 1 1/2 bikes.

The YFZ beat the stock TRX by 1 1/2 bikes.

HRC TRX and YFZ even every time.

I still have a full pipe coming for the TRX.

I raced thes bikes a dozen times, swiched riders, faster rolling starts, etc. I wouldn't believe it if I wasn't riding them. The Yamaha feels so much faster.

yea and imagine the trx with a sparks race cam.

you guys have to realize that honda changed this motor alot, it doesnt rev like a crf does. and changing the cam will make even a bigger difference. the hrc cam isnt "all that" its a mild upgrade..

sparks is saying 11,500 rpm's or around there with his cam, pipe and intake.

now thats a big boost, and will put the power curves and torque curves way higher then a hrc kit

I wouldnt believe dirtwheels if you paid me....;)

we shall see..

[Scottie Mac]

I have a properly jetted YFZ with a full Duncan exhaust, K&N and cam mod and I routinely pull my best friends full CRF JRD MX bike. You can do whatever you want to the TRX, but unless you go into the motor, it won't have the power of a true crf motor with a TC exhaust. The CRF has 55hp stock, add a full TC exhaust and you are up around 57.

People who can't "use" the power of the yfz on the track can't ride. Sorry, don't mean to be a dick, but thats just how it is. YFZs owned Dirt Riot and the Glen Hellen race right after against full aftermarket machines. If they can pull away from crf powered machines, they can pull away from TRXs. I have ridden plenty of laps on plenty of quads and I was am faster around a mx track on my YFZ than I am on the full JRD/CRF. The Honda motors pull hard off the bottom, but fall off too quickly for me. BUT, each person rides different and has a different prefered set up.

I guess because I came from fast 265R's the power delivery doesn't seem unusual to me at all.

I guess it will all be settle on the track........ sh1t, we all know, this arguement will NEVER be truely settled. Wait until the Suzuki gets here, it will be the same thing all over again.

Scott

PS

I must say that I disagree with the "cam mod being useless comment" ANY extra torque or hp is always accepted. You say that is the YFZs problem, I say learm throttle control. Watch the top guys, they don't blitz thru turns, they take the fastest route, whether that be wide open or under control.

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
The CRF has 55hp stock, add a full TC exhaust and you are up around 57.

Are those claimed crank numbers or did you just pull those out of the air. A stock CRF450 puts down about 46hp. I just dynoed one yesterday and today. Stock it did 46.7, with a Hindle full system it did 50.0 then with the jet kit it did 51.0.

Also the cam mod will give you a little more hp on top but you will loose torque on the bottom. Basicly it just raises the rpm range where the cams work so it just delivers the power higher in the rpm range.

[ml450r]

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
I have a properly jetted YFZ with a full Duncan exhaust, K&N and cam mod and I routinely pull my best friends full CRF JRD MX bike. You can do whatever you want to the TRX, but unless you go into the motor, it won't have the power of a true crf motor with a TC exhaust. The CRF has 55hp stock, add a full TC exhaust and you are up around 57.

People who can't "use" the power of the yfz on the track can't ride. Sorry, don't mean to be a dick, but thats just how it is. YFZs owned Dirt Riot and the Glen Hellen race right after against full aftermarket machines. If they can pull away from crf powered machines, they can pull away from TRXs. I have ridden plenty of laps on plenty of quads and I was am faster around a mx track on my YFZ than I am on the full JRD/CRF. The Honda motors pull hard off the bottom, but fall off too quickly for me. BUT, each person rides different and has a different prefered set up.

I guess because I came from fast 265R's the power delivery doesn't seem unusual to me at all.

I guess it will all be settle on the track........ sh1t, we all know, this arguement will NEVER be truely settled. Wait until the Suzuki gets here, it will be the same thing all over again.

Scott

PS

I must say that I disagree with the "cam mod being useless comment" ANY extra torque or hp is always accepted. You say that is the YFZs problem, I say learm throttle control. Watch the top guys, they don't blitz thru turns, they take the fastest route, whether that be wide open or under control.

Do you run any nationals? Cam mod is useless, ask duncan. Throttle control only goes so far. In a 20 minute moto you want the bike that you can go faster on easier.
I have a yfz with pipe and k&N, JETTED PROPERLY. It to willl out run my TC 426, a baldwin CRF and many other bikes, but my HRC TRX stayed right beside it in repeated races. This tells me I willl be racing the honda this season, if you think I can't ride look for me.

[Greg Z]

Originally posted by ml450r
Do you run any nationals? Cam mod is useless, ask duncan. Throttle control only goes so far. In a 20 minute moto you want the bike that you can go faster on easier.
I have a yfz with pipe and k&N, JETTED PROPERLY. It to willl out run my TC 426, a baldwin CRF and many other bikes, but my HRC TRX stayed right beside it in repeated races. This tells me I willl be racing the honda this season, if you think I can't ride look for me.


This is why I beleive ml450

Its because HE OWNS a YFZ450 and a TRX450

there is no reason for him to lie...

[Scottie Mac]

Originally posted by ml450r
Do you run any nationals? Cam mod is useless, ask duncan. Throttle control only goes so far. In a 20 minute moto you want the bike that you can go faster on easier.
I have a yfz with pipe and k&N, JETTED PROPERLY. It to willl out run my TC 426, a baldwin CRF and many other bikes, but my HRC TRX stayed right beside it in repeated races. This tells me I willl be racing the honda this season, if you think I can't ride look for me.

Please understand that I meant no disrespect to you about my "learn how to ride" comment. I was not directing that at you, I was directing that to riders in general. Like I said, I come from a 2 stroke background, so I don't "see" the shortcomings you see in the YFZ's power delivery. I am glad you like your TRX, that is why we buy our toys. I have 4 myself and access to just about everything and the YFZ is bay far my favorite. Good luck this year.


Scott M


PS

Why don't people sign their names to posts? I feel like I am talking to strangers instead of enthusiasts with the same passion for the sport.

[ml450r]

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
Please understand that I meant no disrespect to you about my "learn how to ride" comment. I was not directing that at you, I was directing that to riders in general. Like I said, I come from a 2 stroke background, so I don't "see" the shortcomings you see in the YFZ's power delivery. I am glad you like your TRX, that is why we buy our toys. I have 4 myself and access to just about everything and the YFZ is bay far my favorite. Good luck this year.


Scott M


PS

Why don't people sign their names to posts? I feel like I am talking to strangers instead of enthusiasts with the same passion for the sport.


OK, I reread a few of my post and I see what you mean, I wasn't trying to imply the YFZ has shortcomings, it is awesone. I have raced on a powervalve LRD350r and won races, the YFZ is much better than that as far as putting power to the ground and the TRX is even better. I am sure I can win on both bikes, they both run great.
I know all the dyno's are showing higher numbers for the YFZ but like I said I have raced them and the honda stays right next to it, and I havfe't put a pipe on the TRX yet. I have read other post that say the YFZ's are beating the TRX's, but I was on these and that is what they did. I wilkl probably race both of them throughout the year I just think the preference will fall on the honda.


Merrill

[sparky450AR]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
Are those claimed crank numbers or did you just pull those out of the air. A stock CRF450 puts down about 46hp. I just dynoed one yesterday and today. Stock it did 46.7, with a Hindle full system it did 50.0 then with the jet kit it did 51.0.

Also the cam mod will give you a little more hp on top but you will loose torque on the bottom. Basicly it just raises the rpm range where the cams work so it just delivers the power higher in the rpm range.


What would be a good all around cam to put in the 450? One that gives torque, mid-range and a little top end, mostly torque though?

Thanks!

[Scottie Mac]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
Are those claimed crank numbers or did you just pull those out of the air. A stock CRF450 puts down about 46hp. I just dynoed one yesterday and today. Stock it did 46.7, with a Hindle full system it did 50.0 then with the jet kit it did 51.0.

Also the cam mod will give you a little more hp on top but you will loose torque on the bottom. Basicly it just raises the rpm range where the cams work so it just delivers the power higher in the rpm range.

Both Dirt Rider and Dirt Wheels say the CRF 450 (bike) has 55hp. The title on a CRF says 52. Npt "out of the air" but out of a rags. Or two.

Also, YFZ450s with pipe and jetting are mid to upper 40s. The stock exhaust on the bike counterparts is way less restrictive, so I don;t think these numbers are out of the ordinary.

Scott

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
Both Dirt Rider and Dirt Wheels say the CRF 450 (bike) has 55hp. The title on a CRF says 52. Npt "out of the air" but out of a rags. Or two.

Also, YFZ450s with pipe and jetting are mid to upper 40s. The stock exhaust on the bike counterparts is way less restrictive, so I don;t think these numbers are out of the ordinary.

Scott

Well I don't know where they got those numbers but they are probably just claimed numbers at the crank. The numbers I posted were numbers that I personally ran the bike on the dyno and came up with.