450R Troubles .... Anyone Else?!?

[briantrx]

Ok so here is what happened…

I was putting around Saturday night, playing in the snow – and it just died on me!!!

It sounded like it was flooded so I pulled the plug and it smelled like gas – but it was still getting spark. So, I replaced it with a new plug ($20 plug at that!! :eek2: ) and it still won’t fire. I checked the kill switch, key is on, gas on, with choke, without choke. Headlights still flicker when I kick it over, but it still won’t fire.

Any suggestions?

[dannyboy20]

ya bring it back to the dealer and shove it up there a**. Thats redicelous. Shouldnt be haveing problems already.

[JOEX]

$20 for a plug!?!:eek2:

[bone705]

what kinda of plug is that?

[briantrx]

yea i checked on line for plugs, they were $15 plus shipping, so i just went to the dealer and paid $20 to get one now, to try to fix it

[briantrx]

its a stock plug

[kbass24emtp]

Sounds like the same problem I had on my 300ex when it was new with about 10 min on the engine. Turned out to have a sucked valve. Dealer said it was a defect. Look to see if there is gas in your airboot. If there is that could be the problem. When it happened to my bike it also would not fire and sounded like it was flooded.

[JOEX]

I sure hope there is something else out there for plugs. What's the name and number? I'm assuming it's a NGK?

The cold weather could be an issue. How much experience do you have with kick starters?

Joe

[Fred55]

Are you giving it gas when you kick?

[briantrx]

i have always had 2 strokes to kick start before, and had no problem with them. and had no troubles starting my 450r for the first 2 days of riding until now.

i was giving it just a touch of gas to get it started before, and it started on the first kick every time.

as for the plug i got a stock replacement ngk that was listed in the maunual, and even took the old one into the shop. so i know i got the right one.

i can pull the plug, kick it over to clean it out, put the plug back in and as soon as i kick it the first time i can smell gas again. and i am not touching the gas or the choke. i even drained the bowl on the carb

[kbass24emtp]

check the airboot and see if there is gas in it. also if you want to get really involved you could take off the valve cover and remove the plug on the left crank case and turn the engine over with the right sized socket and look to see if all the valves are working right. but your problem sounds just like my problem on my ex.

listen do this........

take the choke off and hold it WOT and kick it not just once a bunch of times. this will dry up the intake and will start once the right amount of gas is evaporated. when it starts let off the gas once it gets goin. like say 3000

IT should start.

if it doesnt, spray starting fluid in it. if it starts, the float bowl could be stuck shut or open

these thing happens to new bikes...

[lukester720]

Could it be from a improperly installed hrc cam? Mabey a valve hit the piston or something? Also you could try to pullstart it.

[JOEX]

I wasn't questioning if you got the right plug, just wanted to know the number to see if there are better prices.;)

Do what Beerock said. I'd take it back before taking it apart, it does come with a warranty doesn't it?

Joe

[shamisc]

I can't beleive some azs hole charged you $20 for a plug!!:eek2: :grr: My local Honda shop has 'dem all day long for $3+change!!:huh Some people.:rolleyes:

[joe1l]

I would do what Brouqe said or have some one pull start you, this happened a couple times to my R, and it would flood my crankcase soo bad that the only way to start it was a pull start it or do what broque said and kick it a ton of times. When you pull start it, keep it in 3rd gear with clutch pulled in then once you have enough speed, dump the clutch and it should start, it may blubber when it starts from all the extra gas, mine did and would take a few minutes before it was ready to run.

[psd1]

Push it onto your truck and have it at the dealership as soon as they open! I'm sure that they will want to look at it, Honda probably has a hotline for dealerships to report problems so they can track them and make fixes. You might save someone the trouble you are going through.

I wouldnt mess with starting fluid on a brand new bike...Mr. Dealership might find a way to void the warranty if he found out!

Good luck.

[Woody_YFZ]

Just take it back, that is what warranty's are for.

[jamiesel]

pull start if for a while and if that don't work get it right to the dealer and keep us updated.

[2004TRX450R]

Sorry to hear that man. If I could help I would but it is kinda hard to diog stuff like this over the net. Anyway I'd take it back and let them fix it at the dealer under warranty. Also remeber there is a hot start lever for when it is hot. I personally haven't had to use it at all yet but it is something to remember.

The plugs are so much because they are iridum plugs. $20.00 is way cheap compared to what they cost when they first came out. They were more like $40.00. They've been out for 2 or 3 years now so the price has come down. Just be glad it isn't a CRB900RR and you have to replace 4 of them.:D

[SGA]

Originally posted by psd1
Push it onto your truck and have it at the dealership as soon as they open! I'm sure that they will want to look at it, Honda probably has a hotline for dealerships to report problems so they can track them and make fixes. You might save someone the trouble you are going through.

I wouldnt mess with starting fluid on a brand new bike...Mr. Dealership might find a way to void the warranty if he found out!

Good luck. Thats good advice.
Im old enough to know sometimes new things have problems. Just take it back and get it fixed. Im sure there will be a bug or two on the new hondas, like all first year quads.

[robby26wi]

I would take the filter out,plug out and leave it sit for awhile...sounds like its soaked with fuel...You CANNOT touch the throttle when starting or it will not start very well....

[29FTEX]

Take the air box lid off, and see if the air filter is soaked down. There is what looks like a blow-by tube coming into the air box aimed right at the air filter.

If that's not it, heed the others advice and take it back to the dealer.

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by robby26wi
I would take the filter out,plug out and leave it sit for awhile...sounds like its soaked with fuel...You CANNOT touch the throttle when starting or it will not start very well....

This is a very good point. It will also make it kick back at you and you DON'T want that. I have seen YZs/ WRx/ and have heard of a CRF that someone was giveing at little throttle when starting and it kicked back so hard when the kick starter hit the stop it broke the center case. Imagine what that could do to your leg especially if you aren't wearing rideing boots!:eek2:

[blackraptor16]

This is Brian's woman - He's on his way to the dealership now with it in the back of his truck. He said he's waiting there til they get the damn thing finished and not leaving til it starts....

He will keep you all updated...

~*niki*~

Originally posted by blackraptor16
This is Brian's woman - He's on his way to the dealership now with it in the back of his truck. He said he's waiting there til they get the damn thing finished and not leaving til it starts....

He will keep you all updated...

~*niki*~



i hope its just something little.. Oh well, thats what warranty is for. Everyone whos telling him to take it apart and stuff, good advice, if you dont have a warranty, i have seen people get screwed, Honda guy: well it seems that you took it apart already and broke it, so this will not be coverd under warranty".. Or you must of done something to it"... My honda shop is cool about alot of things and wouldnt do that, but some bigger dealerships an hour away from me will..

[robby26wi]

It is something simple....Its flooded...there will be alot of these problems with people who arent used to an excellerator pump and a kick starter...mark my words

[quadman21]

I was putting around Saturday night, playing in the snow – and it just died on me!!!


I'm sure all of you guys are right and it's a simple problem with a simple fix, but remember he said it died on him?

[blackraptor16]

Originally posted by robby26wi
It is something simple....Its flooded...there will be alot of these problems with people who arent used to an excellerator pump and a kick starter...mark my words

Believe me - it's not flooded - I just got off the phone with him and he is at the dealership and they have the motor torn apart. I'm on my way to class but I'm sure he will post what is wrong with it when he gets home...

He has plenty of experience with a kick starter - he had dirtbikes before he even had quads ever since he was a little kid - and he's 25 now...

[briantrx]

Originally posted by lukester720
Could it be from a improperly installed hrc cam? Mabey a valve hit the piston or something? Also you could try to pullstart it.

well you are the lucky one...it was an improperly installed cam. there is a "C" clip that goes on the cam. the mechanic at the dealer did not put it on all the way so it came off and slid over to the right. luckly no damage. they put on a new clip, put it back together and it started the first try. boy was i relieved. so the dealer apologised and i was on my way home. guess it could have been worse.

i am glad i just took it to the dealer. it was a quick fix for them but it left me wondering about the quality of their service department.

thanks for all the help.

brian

[lukester720]

I'm glad to here you got it back and running brian!

[Honda]

Congrats!!!

Think they may need a new mechanic?

[exrider44]

Thats good news! Glad to hear your bike is running again.

[briantrx]

thanks guys!!!

their mechanic was supposed to be the best. but he was not there today so the owner and to other guys fixed it.

just took it for a spin and i can notice a big differance now. can't wait for the snow to melt to get it on solid ground and let it rip

Originally posted by robby26wi
It is something simple....Its flooded...there will be alot of these problems with people who arent used to an excellerator pump and a kick starter...mark my words

i did mark your words, by taking a big leak all over them.. wrongo. When a 4 stroke floods, it doesnt take so much to get running that you have to take the damn engine apart buddy. sorry but you dont.


Hey glad to hear you got it running again:cool:

[FFW]

So much crap, so few legitimate responses! Wow, a 15 year old that advise spraying starting fluid in a brand new ATV. Get real.

He did the only correct thing by taking it back to the dealership.

Glad it was a relatively minor problem, although it doesn't seem that way at the time!

As for the $20 plug I believe they are supposed to include a tube of KY Jelly with it!

:blah:

[kgbg]

Holy SH1t! I can;t believe how lucky you are. That could have been ugly. I am SO glad for you that it worked out ok.
I would be for taking a look inside that valve cover if I was you. If that cam slid over far enough to take the lobes off the buckets or rockers, it could have got into the decompressor or timing chain.
If you want soemthing done properly do it yourself!

[sparky450AR]

Originally posted by FFW
So much crap, so few legitimate responses! Wow, a 15 year old that advise spraying starting fluid in a brand new ATV. Get real.

He did the only correct thing by taking it back to the dealership.

Glad it was a relatively minor problem, although it doesn't seem that way at the time!

As for the $20 plug I believe they are supposed to include a tube of KY Jelly with it!

:blah:


HAHA did you hear that beerock, a 15 year old! We all know beerock has absolutely no experience with motors. (sarcasm)

Glad you got it runnin again!

[FFW]

Originally posted by sparky450AR
HAHA did you hear that beerock, a 15 year old! We all know beerock has absolutely no experience with motors. (sarcasm)

Glad you got it runnin again!

I don't know beerock from Adam so I am supposed to take his incorrect diagnosis at the gospel? Hahaha, thats a good one!


Move along, there's nothing left to see.

:blah:

[Scottie Mac]

VERY GLAD to hear you got your machine fixed. We should expect a few growing pains with any new quad, but it seems like you just had a little bad luck with your dealership. Now, go out and put that thing thru the ringers!!

Scott

[SGA]

Originally posted by briantrx
...it was an improperly installed cam. there is a "C" clip that goes on the cam. the mechanic at the dealer did not put it on all the way so it came off and slid over to the right. it started the first try.
Ok, im confused here. Why would the dealer be putting a cam in a brand new quad?

[MIA450R]

Ughhh...see this is why I have never trusted any dealer mechanics...whether it be automotive or ATV. Sure, its a gereralization...but unless we're talking warranty issues, I take my car to a mechanic I trust, and I take my quads to only one man...

http://www.robbsracingengines.com/


Nonetheless, very, very glad to hear you are all set, Brian.

Originally posted by SGA
Ok, im confused here. Why would the dealer be putting a cam in a brand new quad?


the aftermarket cam i am thinking, the hrc kit cam

Originally posted by FFW
So much crap, so few legitimate responses! Wow, a 15 year old that advise spraying starting fluid in a brand new ATV. Get real.

He did the only correct thing by taking it back to the dealership.

Glad it was a relatively minor problem, although it doesn't seem that way at the time!

As for the $20 plug I believe they are supposed to include a tube of KY Jelly with it!

:blah:

so much crap hmm?

I just scrolled back and looked at every posts and you didnt try helping this guy at all. All you did was rant about how there was so much crap and few legitimate responses. HA

from what he said, spraying starting fluid in it would diagnose a stuck bowl or no spark.

im far from 15 and doing what i said is regular practice if a bike wont start , it also evaporates the gas in the intake. this is a perfectly good TROUBLE SHOOTING technique. aftet that thats when you dive into the motor.

soo furthermore, ffw,, you should use the correct terms. I didnt diagnose anything. I was helpng him trouble shoot.:rolleyes:


I for one would be pissed if the clip fell off no telling what other premature wear that did.:eek:

[FFW]

Ok, I'll try to make this easy to understand. I offered no diagnosis because the diagnosis was made and repairs were made.

There...that was easy:)

Here's another easy to understand solution. When you pay thousands of dollars for a mechanical item, take it home and right away it doesn't work, do NOT diagnose it further then the very basics, gas, kill switch, etc. You take it back to the dealer immediately. If he had cracked the case or the valve cover on that machine he might have very well voided his warranty.

Here's Mr. Webster's definition of diagnose.

Main Entry: di·ag·nose
Pronunciation: 'dI-ig-"nOs, -"nOz, "dI-ig-', -&g-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -nosed; -nos·ing
Etymology: back-formation from diagnosis
Date: circa 1859
transitive senses
1 a : to recognize (as a disease) by signs and symptoms b : to diagnose a disease or condition in <diagnosed the patient>
2 : to analyze the cause or nature of <diagnose the problem>
intransitive senses
: to make a diagnosis

Diagnose/troubleshoot. Splitting very fine hairs aren't we? And you're right, you offered to help but however well meaning it was ill timed given the machine was brand new.


I stand by what I said:)

Originally posted by FFW
Ok, I'll try to make this easy to understand. I offered no diagnosis because the diagnosis was made and repairs were made.

There...that was easy:)

Here's another easy to understand solution. When you pay thousands of dollars for a mechanical item, take it home and right away it doesn't work, do NOT diagnose it further then the very basics, gas, kill switch, etc. You take it back to the dealer immediately. If he had cracked the case or the valve cover on that machine he might have very well voided his warranty.

Here's Mr. Webster's definition of diagnose.

Main Entry: di·ag·nose
Pronunciation: 'dI-ig-"nOs, -"nOz, "dI-ig-', -&g-
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -nosed; -nos·ing
Etymology: back-formation from diagnosis
Date: circa 1859
transitive senses
1 a : to recognize (as a disease) by signs and symptoms b : to diagnose a disease or condition in <diagnosed the patient>
2 : to analyze the cause or nature of <diagnose the problem>
intransitive senses
: to make a diagnosis

Diagnose/troubleshoot. Splitting very fine hairs aren't we? And you're right, you offered to help but however well meaning it was ill timed given the machine was brand new.


I stand by what I said:)

well guess what, I use to work at a reputable dealer. he asked for help, i tried helping. I have helped alot of people online to fix there motor problems so you should stop acting smart. I dont care how old u are.

this guy posted on here for HELP it was not ill timed he asked for it!

Your wrong about diagnosing and trouble shooting. there actually the opposite.

trouble shooting "fishes for problems" when you have no clue what is wrong. diagnosing shows you the problem with symptoms.

also, If he cracked anything it wouldnt have voided anything the dealer messed up not him!

stand by what you want.

You didnt help at all, all your doing is causing me grief and all I did was try to help him.

stand on that!!


its a mute point so YOU move along flamer.

[joe1l]

Ok wait, a guy came to this forum to ask for any suggestions as what to do with his bike that did not start. Beerock, did just that, why should anyone give him grief for it, I did the same also, that is the whole point of these forums, is so that we can share our experiences with other people, beerock has helped me out before with problems with my bike and I inturn have shared what i've learned with others....i don't see what your point was in trying to shart sh1t with him! If you can't be part of the solution, then STAY OUT OF IT, because you just become part of the problem!

[exrider44]

thats right ca'mon! :devil:

[psd1]

God, please lock this pissin match down!

"I am that!", "I am this!" STFU!

The dude did the best thing and let his servicing dealer fix the problem that THEY created! Now, if there are problems stemming from this in the future he has a leg to stand. All he will have to do is produce the paperwork from "their" mistake...You did get a written copy of the repairs and the problems, right?

[briantrx]

yep it is all on file at the dealer

[rtyfz450]

20 bucks for an IX iridium spark plug is still too expensive, I got one for my yfz for 6.95. Granted they are expensive little suckers but I would look elsewere for a plug, not pay almost three times its value.

[SGA]

Ok, Its all fixed and running. Im going to close the thread now to stop the err, "discussion":)