450r dissapointment

[yellowrider]

ok i will explain myself a little better ..

this is my opinion...

why i thought it sounded like crap was..... didnt sound anything like the dirt bike sounded like my 400ex which is stock..
but the motor didnt make so many noises ..

yes i seen it in person got to start it wow.. also it did start on the first kick...

the 310 was built about 4 years ago... so its probably time for a rebuild.. anyhow they was dead even ..

but the 450 vs the yammie = there was no tie no nothing the 450 yamma one hands done...

i have not seen any magazines i was hoping the honda smoked it but it didnt ..

i was really looking forward to it but i dont think to many people around here is going to get it now .. only 3 people i know of not including me..

anyhow not trying to flame cause in a few months i may own one. ..

why i started a new thread i sbecasue i couldnt explain myself in the last caseu it got locked and im at school so i cant reply all the time ..

ken

[Hawk III]

Personal attacks will not be tolerated.~ JOEX

[FFW]

Not sure what to say. You complained about it yet you will likely have one soon?

Sounds stupid to me.

Also, please, please please, PLEASE stay in school and learn how to write and spell. It makes it much easier for us.

[dannyboy20]

HAHA exactly.

[2004TRX450R]

Due to noise emissions and such they have to make it quiet. Have you listened to a YFZ or any other quad? Obviously not because you would be complaining on how they sound like crap too. If you take a look at the dirt bikes the CRF is spanking up on the yz/wr 450s power wise. This tells me that even though the 450R may not have as much punch out of the box it has great potential. Honda is great at detuneing a bike engine to put it in a quad frame and they like to make their bikes (street/dirt or ATVs) well set up for the masses. It is a better overall bike than the YFZ but may not be set up for raceing as well as the YFZ in stock form. However Honda knows that most people that are going to be raceing it are going to change all the stuff like the front A arms and rear axle anyway. So instead of makeing it more for the track they make it so it is more for everyone where it will be ridden the most. I bet only about 25% of them ever even see the track so by makeing it lower and wider with a harder seat and handle bars that will hit a taller riders knees like the YFZ they make it so that it fits a larger variety of people.

[Hawk III]

Personal attacks will not be tolerated.~ JOEX

I am sorry about that, I guess I should have said that his writing skills were just writing challenged
/me shrugs

[FFW]

Both of them are excellent ATV's. I don't see how you could go wrong with either of them. Whether I have ridden them or not is irrelevant. They are both very well engineered machines.

At least the R is on the showroom floors and people have actually ridden them. We should see an end to the "what if's" questions before they've been ridden. Those were some of the funniest stuff I have seen.

[Hawk III]

Also, please, please please, PLEASE stay in school and learn how to write and spell. It makes it much easier for us.

[JOEX]

Hawk III

If you would have been more polite about it and added something more than bashing someones writing skills (or lack of) I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

Joe

[Hawk III]

I am sorry Joe, I am just sick of coming on here with the same bs about the honda vs yamaha. And then the way he wrote it made me want to bash him...I won't do it again

[Bretmd94]

Im not dissapointed with mine at all. And comparing stock bikes vs modded ones is stupid anyways. All stock bikes are choked down to pass emissions. My 450r huals *** compared to my 400ex. Im very confident that its way faster than my old raptor was stock. The suspension is great, the braking is unbelievable, and the acceleration stock is insane.

The only thing i found that i dont like is the gearing is very tall for dirt riding in trees and tight stuff stock. The bike wont go slow. But thats nothing smaller tires, or a different sprocket wont change.

Oh yeah and those removable front fenders....... Theres 2 pop rivits that i have to drill out first. Im thinking of just shaving the fenders now.

And if a stock 450r was dead even with a 310, thats ******* insane for a stock quad. 310s should be able to spank a 450.

[tholt]

I got a reply to the guy who said the CRF dirtbikes spanking the YZ450f's. Ok these 2 bikes are just like the quads. they both just have 2 different power bands. Just like they are on the quads. The CRF motor doesn't make any more horsepower then the Yz450 motor. with those bikes it just comes down to rider preference and who is riding them. not the bike.
The quads are pretty much the same way also, plus they will be completely diferent once everyone gets them modded b/c no company will make a quad that is race worth right out of the box.

Tim

[Scottie Mac]

Tim,

Yare 100% right. The BIGGEST complaint about the YZ450F motorcycle powerplant is that it makes TOO MUCH power for the average joe to ride on a motocross track. Pick up any MX mag and they all agree, the Honda (motorcycle) handles much better than the Yamaha (motorcycle), but when it comes to power, the Yamaha 450 is the power king. Now the quad motors aren't the same motors, but you get the point. I don't understand why everyone acts shocked when people (HMF, just about every mag, Dynos) say the YFZ is a more powerfull motor. Honda has NEVER had the best motors in terms of power, but they ALWAYS had great handling. Now it sounds as if the new Honda, stock for stock, doesn't handle quite as well as the YFZ, but once people (racers) dump the right money on the rigth parts they should be pretty close in terms of power AND handling. As always, it will come down to rider.


Scott

[trout]

I wonder if that s why Farr is winning?

DUH!

[tholt]

i like both bikes but you can't say right off hand that is Farr is just winning. Keith little walked away with that first race. so the bikes are equal but it comes down to rider.

yup the honda dirtbike or for the average rider, where the yamaha dirtbike you have to ride aggresively. I have rode both those bikes and that is how they are.

Honda always makes a great bike and is always reliable and competitive. when it comes to quads Yamaha has always been under them. I am just glad to see them finally make a good quad to compete with honda. Yamaha actually made up for 15 years of the banshee. It makes the class more interesting now having more then one brand win all the time.

Tim.

[seven]

Not flaming, But people keep saying becouse one rider is winning on the 450R they are great. Makes no sense to me. They may be a great quad but as of yet I havent seen anything all that great about it. To me its a glorified 400ex that sits higher. Only time will tell if its a replacment for the 250r or if there is still only 1 R out there. As far as Tim Farr winning, He could probably win on a blaster He is a great rider!

[Honda]

I don't know. I have not gotten to take mine home yet.

One thing for sure though, A 400EX rides nothing like a 250R.

A 450R a Glorified 400EX? I hope not, cause I personally don't like the way an EX rides.

Now if determined that the 450R rides like an EX, then I would have to get a 250R, Unfortunatly that won't work for me because GNCC Rules state that you have to run a Machine Manufactured within the last Five years.

I really don't think the new R will Ride like an EX. Besides, if everyone was 100% satisfied with their quads off the showroom floor, what would we need the aftermarket for?

[linkcmd88]

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
Tim,

Yare 100% right. The BIGGEST complaint about the YZ450F motorcycle powerplant is that it makes TOO MUCH power for the average joe to ride on a motocross track. Pick up any MX mag and they all agree, the Honda (motorcycle) handles much better than the Yamaha (motorcycle), but when it comes to power, the Yamaha 450 is the power king. Now the quad motors aren't the same motors, but you get the point. I don't understand why everyone acts shocked when people (HMF, just about every mag, Dynos) say the YFZ is a more powerfull motor. Honda has NEVER had the best motors in terms of power, but they ALWAYS had great handling. Now it sounds as if the new Honda, stock for stock, doesn't handle quite as well as the YFZ, but once people (racers) dump the right money on the rigth parts they should be pretty close in terms of power AND handling. As always, it will come down to rider.


Scott


i 2nd that

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by seven
To me its a glorified 400ex that sits higher.

You couldn't me more wrong. My 450R is head and shoulders over the 400EX in every aspect. It is a WAY better bike. It is in no way an EX frame. Not even close.

[seven]

That was not a bad point. The 400ex was a great handleing quad. But they didnt put a whole lot of thought into the desighn of the 450. Look at the yfz, Its closer to the old R then the 450 is. I am not brand loyal by any means but if they were trying to make a race quad to compete with the yamaha, I think they missed the mark. The yamaha has more power, Lower ride height, And a better over all desighn then the honda. Its still a great quad, but i think they need to do a little more work to it to call it a racer. And I do know people will win races on them but it looks more like a hopped up trail machine to me.

[JWhite]

Nobody is going to keep them stock if they are gonna be racing. You think all those YFZ behind Tim Farr were saying the 450R is slow? Nope. They were hating it!

Do you want to talk stock? Aye? A STOCK 450R will SMOKE a stock 250R!

[jb500ex]

i have too admit i was debating getting the yfz. i picked up my r today and it does feel a little high but better then i thought after everything i have read. i only went up and down the road the low too mid power is definately there with the yfz and i will ride this weekend with my brother who has the yfz. the fir and finish is excellent quality looks very good better then expected, i just need too ride it more. but i am happier with it right now then i was a couple of days ago. my early estimation is the bikes are going too be alot closer then the mags are saying. my brother took it for a quik ride when he got back he did not say anything which tells all, because if he thought the yfz was alot better he would let me have it right there. i will find out more this weekend

[FlyinRed]

Hey JB, is the 450 faster than your ex with all the mods?

[seven]

Again you are pointing out one rider that was at the top of the podium on every machine. You put him on a 400ex he would win, Put him on a raptor he would win,put him on a banshee he would win. I think honda was trying to make the 450 great at everything and turned out to be not the mx machine that every one was hoping for. And one more point, If he was on the YFZ he would win also!

[jb500ex]

flying read i haven't ridden my 400 in a couple of month's because i am in snowmobile season and that is all i think about now, but i will tell you my brothers yfz will take my 400 and i think the 450 r is right their with it. my bike just has alot of torque tons of it. it's not meant too drag it's more of a woods motocross kit you always have usable power

[jb500ex]

ballance duvall and borich haven't won on their yfz's yet

[seven]

What kind of sled do you have? I have been out on my sled every weekend and my quad has been sitting. I have a 99mxz 600 with 2inch paddles. The more I get into the sled thing the more I am thinking about geting a 800 high mark.

[jb500ex]

2001 zr 600. and im going too stay in the 600 class . i take my bro's rx 1 friends mxz 800 and polaris xc 800 off the line, they have alot more top end but i like mine for the trails light and quick

[seven]

We hardly ever see the trail when we ride so I need a long track for the deep powder stuff. One of my friends has a 02 440 firecat that really moves out of the hole but I will catch it it if it is on a hill climb. The guy I ride with is good friends with Shane Hedden. He did the thunderstruck 2 video and is known for water jumps on his sled. He actaully beat the world record jump for a sled but guiness was not there to measure it.

[jb500ex]

nice. the sleds are addicting aren't they. i just got mine last year know i'm totally into it

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by seven
But they didnt put a whole lot of thought into the desighn of the 450. Look at the yfz, Its closer to the old R then the 450 is. I am not brand loyal by any means but if they were trying to make a race quad to compete with the yamaha, I think they missed the mark. ..... Its still a great quad, but i think they need to do a little more work to it to call it a racer. ...it looks more like a hopped up trail machine to me.

I think you are missing the point. Honda has never really seemed to make the best "race" bike out of the box. Look at the CBR600F4. It doesn't have as much power, is heavier, doesn't handle as well, and doesnt' have as much of a race stance as the R6 but it is by far the best "street" bike in the 600 class. It does have the best ergo's for the street and is the most street friendly. Honda seems to follow this in most of their units as they make it fit what 90% of the units sold are going to be used for. Honda knows that the majority of the 450Rs that are sold are never going to hit the race track. They are giong to be ridden in the dunes and on the trails. However it is easily modified to a full race machine that will be VERY competitive on the track. How many people have you heard of complaining about the hard seat and low handlebars of the YFZ? LOTS. How many people have you heard say the 450R is very comfortable? Most everyone who has one. They are targeting the prospective buyer. Very smart business wise. You can bet Honda put LOTS of r&d into building this bike and it will prove it if you give it a chance.

[yellowrider]

i lied that yamaha had a pipe i failed to mention that. it sounded good....

i might end up getting the honda because it is a honda...

but i much rather have the yamaha horsepower...


but like i said in my OPInion the honda does look better in the yamaha and i would like to have both over my 400ex ..

it may take me a while to get one of the two because what ever one i get i am keeping my 400ex for hill climbs i love my bike and i not getting rid of it..


sory i caint spel not my faut ... .

[yellowrider]

fred is supposed to let me ride his at the sandpit .. i cant wait ..




p.s. i didnt come here to start a flame .. i just came here to wine cause i really hoping honda would kill the competition.

[87250r88]

Originally posted by jb500ex
ballance duvall and borich haven't won on their yfz's yet

Chris Borich did win the 12 hour race in Iowa on his YFZ with a little help from Matt Smiley and Mike Krachun.

[ATC83]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
I think you are missing the point. Honda has never really seemed to make the best "race" bike out of the box. Look at the CBR600F4. It doesn't have as much power, is heavier, doesn't handle as well, and doesnt' have as much of a race stance as the R6 but it is by far the best "street" bike in the 600 class. It does have the best ergo's for the street and is the most street friendly. Honda seems to follow this in most of their units as they make it fit what 90% of the units sold are going to be used for. Honda knows that the majority of the 450Rs that are sold are never going to hit the race track. They are giong to be ridden in the dunes and on the trails. However it is easily modified to a full race machine that will be VERY competitive on the track. How many people have you heard of complaining about the hard seat and low handlebars of the YFZ? LOTS. How many people have you heard say the 450R is very comfortable? Most everyone who has one. They are targeting the prospective buyer. Very smart business wise. You can bet Honda put LOTS of r&d into building this bike and it will prove it if you give it a chance.

What a bunch of B.S. Why are so many people trying to make excuses for Honda? When I put $7000.00 down on a bike that Honda advertises as a "purpose built race machine" then I expect it to be that not some bike made for joe blow to run around the trails on. Unfortunately that’s not what you get with the TRX450R. Your whole premise is ridiculous. Do you really think Honda used this philosophy when they developed the CRF450? They advertise it as a "purpose built motocross bike". I'm sure Honda will go back to the drawing board and in a few years we will see a vastly different bike. If they don't it looks like a Yamaha will be the replacement for the 250R (something I never thought I would ever say).

[joe1l]

What a bunch of B.S. Why are so many people trying to make excuses for Honda? When I put $7000.00 down on a bike that Honda advertises as a "purpose built race machine" then I expect it to be that not some bike made for joe blow to run around the trails on. Unfortunately that’s not what you get with the TRX450R. Your whole premise is ridiculous.

The last I checked a majority of these bikes being sold were being used for recreational use and not for straight track use. You see Honda is in the game to make money, not to win races!! Something that does well on the track does not necessarily meet all the requirements an average consumer would expect from their atv, you see this is their bread and butter (the average conumser that is :eek2: ). For instance some people trail ride, some ride dunes and some will go on a track, how do you satisfy all of these requirements and still make a bike reliable, comfortable and most importantly affordable. Well it looks like honda did it, and so did yamaha, the only difference is the yamaha may be a bit more intense and geared towards racing and not trail riding than the Honda is in stock form, harder seat, lower bars, stiffer suspesion, hence turning away customers like ME, who want a more plush recreational ride so that when I go back to work on Monday, i'm not in bed poppin pain killers! The fact is and no one can deny this is, that Honda has a long racing history in this sport with many engine tuners and suspension guys that are tweaking and tuning the trx450r as we speak...and yes they are making it faster in every aspect just for racing!!! There is not to say there isn't Yamaha tuners out there doing the same thing!! The honda seems to be a great platform from what I can tell will be one of the best race quads of today and thats all that matters. Don't be surprised when you are racing your precious YFZ one day and someone on a TRX passes you by, because it will happen!! So other than a few less ponies in stock form and the absence of an e-start I can't see why there is such a fuss about TRX shortcommings!

[nuttynewt]

Originally posted by ATC83
What a bunch of B.S. Why are so many people trying to make excuses for Honda? When I put $7000.00 down on a bike that Honda advertises as a "purpose built race machine" then I expect it to be that not some bike made for joe blow to run around the trails on. Unfortunately that’s not what you get with the TRX450R. Your whole premise is ridiculous. Do you really think Honda used this philosophy when they developed the CRF450? They advertise it as a "purpose built motocross bike". I'm sure Honda will go back to the drawing board and in a few years we will see a vastly different bike. If they don't it looks like a Yamaha will be the replacement for the 250R (something I never thought I would ever say).

I couldn't agree more. First of all, I must say that I know I'm gonna catch flak for this, but I really don't give a rats *** what you think.

I have always been a Honda fan, but I think that everybody making all these excuses for the TRX450R are mainly doing it because they already bought one and don't want to admit to their dissapointment. I keep hearing this same story "Yamaha is faster and handles better, etc. BUT I can make my Honda do it with some modifications. WHY BUY THE HONDA IF IT ISN'T A BETTER BIKE OUT OF THE BOX??? It's not like you're saving a lot of money on it compared to the Yamaha. Don't you think those Yamaha riders can go out and put aftermarket parts on their quads too? Then they're still likely to have the better machine.

Granted, the bike is only as fast as you ride it. That's something else I'm getting tired of hearing about. "Well, Farr is winning on it..." Yeah, and you ain't Tim Farr. He could only have one leg and beat you in an *** kickin' contest. Bottom line is, it doesn't matter what brand he's riding, he's gonna win races, because he is a champion, a winner, and one of the best riders out there.

If you ask me, the best thing we can all do is go buy a Yamaha and give Honda a chance to think about it, regroup, go back to the drawing board, and come out with something better.

Or if you want a trail riding machine, buy the Honda.

End of story.

what i think is funny, all you guys trying to stick up for the yfz bikes, honda has the best motocross bikes hands down.. meaning handling, power is about equal, But wait a second here, would you rather a have a bike that is 1 more hp than the other, but then again the handling sucks so you have to work 2 times harder to win? And yamaha copied honda with the aluminum frame, honda is way ahead of yamaha in motocross related so keep it to yourself..


about the quads engines, the yfz is faster, face, put the same mods on each to the engine, then im thinkin the honda will be faster.. I just dont get why honda would detune the engine? thats gay. i love speed and isnt everyone always wanting more, thats why eveyrone that owns a 400ex has big bore kits,, right? why detune it, leave her nice and fast..

[greghall]

Thats why I bought a 450R,havent got it yet but Ill make my own deciesion on it when I ride it,everybody said the that the 400EX is now dated & if the 450R is a little bit better than the EX I will be more than pleased,by the way I considered the YFZ but the price was to high,could not find a deal like I got on the R.

[nuttynewt]

Originally posted by bobby88
what i think is funny, all you guys trying to stick up for the yfz bikes, honda has the best motocross bikes hands down.. meaning handling, power is about equal, But wait a second here, would you rather a have a bike that is 1 more hp than the other, but then again the handling sucks so you have to work 2 times harder to win? And yamaha copied honda with the aluminum frame, honda is way ahead of yamaha in motocross related so keep it to yourself..


about the quads engines, the yfz is faster, face, put the same mods on each to the engine, then im thinkin the honda will be faster.. I just dont get why honda would detune the engine? thats gay. i love speed and isnt everyone always wanting more, thats why eveyrone that owns a 400ex has big bore kits,, right? why detune it, leave her nice and fast..

Hey, I'd be the last guy to stick up for a yfz BIKE; I've rode both and personally prefer the Honda... but I'm a recreational bike rider and don't hit 100+ triples... so what I look for in a bike and what a Pro Rider (or a competitive rider for that matter) looks for is something totally different... when it comes to bikes, though, IMO both Honda and Yamaha suck hind titty to KTM. For the woods, they make awesome power, ride like a Cadillac, and are the best engineered bikes out there.

And my last post should be read in the same context; if your gonna be racing the quad, why not go with the Yamaha to start with... If your riding trails for fun, the Honda may be the best bike for you... you get my point...

[ATC83]

Originally posted by joe1l
The last I checked a majority of these bikes being sold were being used for recreational use and not for straight track use. You see Honda is in the game to make money, not to win races!! Something that does well on the track does not necessarily meet all the requirements an average consumer would expect from their atv, you see this is their bread and butter (the average conumser that is :eek2: ). For instance some people trail ride, some ride dunes and some will go on a track, how do you satisfy all of these requirements and still make a bike reliable, comfortable and most importantly affordable. Well it looks like honda did it, and so did yamaha, the only difference is the yamaha may be a bit more intense and geared towards racing and not trail riding than the Honda is in stock form, harder seat, lower bars, stiffer suspesion, hence turning away customers like ME, who want a more plush recreational ride so that when I go back to work on Monday, i'm not in bed poppin pain killers! The fact is and no one can deny this is, that Honda has a long racing history in this sport with many engine tuners and suspension guys that are tweaking and tuning the trx450r as we speak...and yes they are making it faster in every aspect just for racing!!! There is not to say there isn't Yamaha tuners out there doing the same thing!! The honda seems to be a great platform from what I can tell will be one of the best race quads of today and thats all that matters. Don't be surprised when you are racing your precious YFZ one day and someone on a TRX passes you by, because it will happen!! So other than a few less ponies in stock form and the absence of an e-start I can't see why there is such a fuss about TRX shortcommings!

Ever since I started riding Honda's in 1979 when I got my XR80 I have never heard them say there goal is not to win races. They have built there whole motorsports reputation on the fact that Honda wins races.

[r450rr]

the people thats praisin the honda are not only the TRX 450R owners there are other ones sticking in there to... but for a fact the only one dissing the honda on this site. has a yfz in there signature. its ashamed i cant wait til i get my r ,and beat people with there presious, yfz's , which are built better aluminum frame, more hp..and better handling and a e start,, and all those great things,, whatever the yfz isnt any better than the TRX when it comes down to the over all part..... so when the TRX getts mods just like the yfz expect there to be another legendary R..

[Scottie Mac]

Originally posted by r450rr
[ i cant wait til i get my r ,and beat people with there presious, yfz's , which are built better aluminum frame, more hp..and better handling and a e start,, and all those great things,, whatever the yfz isnt any better than the TRX when it comes down to the over all part..... so when the TRX getts mods just like the yfz expect there to be another legendary R.. [/B]

OK, IF you are going to TRY and make a point, at least educate yourself first. The only production quads to ever have an alluminum frame were the Cannondales. The YFZ, just like the TRX, has a steel frame with an alluminum subframe.


And, by the way, there will always be only one true R, sorry.

Scott

[seven]

I dont own either. The yamaha has a lower center of gravity, More power, and more options out of the box. And as far as them making money, They sell more units by winning races. Thats why they sponcer them. Even the every day rider for the most part wants the one that everybody is winning races on. I am sticking with my 310R for another year and see what suzuki brings to the table.

[Scottie Mac]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobby88
[B]what i think is funny, all you guys trying to stick up for the yfz bikes, honda has the best motocross bikes hands down.. meaning handling, power is about equal, But wait a second here, would you rather a have a bike that is 1 more hp than the other, but then again the handling sucks so you have to work 2 times harder to win? And yamaha copied honda with the aluminum frame, honda is way ahead of yamaha in motocross related so keep it to yourself..


Another person whose point is lost because they don't know common knowledge. Ok Skippy, here ya go. Yamaha bikes, they use steel frames. Now, the upcoming 2005 yz125 is supposed to have an alluminum frame, but it is not out yet. And yes, the CRF has a much easier to ride chassis than the YZ450F, but then again, the YZ250 is one of the best handling motocross bikes ever made. I would hope the Honda handles better, it came out three years after the YZ thumpers hit the market.

It would suck if a manufacturer brought out a product a while after the competition and didn't hands down beat it.........

sorry, Honda just did.



I didn't say the TRX sucked, so you can keep your flames to yourselves, I said that it is no better than what was already available, unless you have hemroids. If you look at the FACTS, it isn't as good. Less travel, less power, no e start. Face it, if Honda had produced the YFZ, it would have been the GREATEST FREAKIN QUAD EVER HANDS DOWN. ANd if Yamaha would have produced the TRX half a year later, you Honda guys would have had a feild day bashing it. Anyone who says they wouldn't have is lying to themselves.

The only thing that is for sure is this...... there will be a bunch pf people on TRXs, YFZs and in a year or so the new Z450. The person who enjoys what he has is the true winner, no matter whether it is red, blue or yellow. (or green I guess)

Scott

[psd1]

SCOTTIE MAC Hit the nail on the head with this one!

Face it, if Honda had produced the YFZ, it would have been the GREATEST FREAKIN QUAD EVER HANDS DOWN. ANd if Yamaha would have produced the TRX half a year later, you Honda guys would have had a feild day bashing it. Anyone who says they wouldn't have is lying to themselves.


Good point, but that is how it works, especially when we drop such a large amount of coin on these things. NO ONE wants to spend 6-7K and then have to say something else is better...it just isnt human nature! If I spend 7 Large, I damn sure know what I bought was the best, otherwise I must be stupid for spending that much on an inferior product! (Not trying to implicate anything here)

Same goes for the Ford/Chevy, Polaris/Arctic Cat, Murray/John Deere wars!
:D

[Quadaholic]

This whine session sounds exactly like the one in '02 when Honda released the CRF. Yzf owners had a faster bike as they do in '04. But the Honda is better selling and made for the masses. Go pick up a MX Action mag (for details on the CRF/YZF) and it states everything like ATV Action does pertaining to the 450R/YFZ. Yamaha makes their bikes/quads a "pure race" bike. Honda appeals to the masses with a unit that is capable of everything with margin for improvement. Get off your high horses!!!! The Yamaha makes more power than the Honda... big deal. Let's talk in 6-8 months and see which manufacturer is selling more units and who is winning what. Until then.... MTFO.

[joe1l]

Ever since I started riding Honda's in 1979 when I got my XR80 I have never heard them say there goal is not to win races. They have built there whole motorsports reputation on the fact that Honda wins races.

I forgot, Honda must not care about making a profit, your right, that would be just silly;) Ask their stock holders what they care about, trust me, I would doubt ATV racing would matter much. I don't get what you have to prove, do you think I really care that your yfz could beat a stock trx450r that I don't own on track i'm not going to ride on? Not really!! I own Yamahas and a Honda, I ride what suits my riding style, and sooo do many many others and to quote dirtwheels:

"Riding standing up is the preferred position. If you don't, it's a rough ride." "the race bred ergos and paper-thin seat limit long distance activities"

that does not suit my weekend riding requirements, so hence I'll be looking honda's way. If I wanted to race, I already have the one and only R waiting.....

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bobby88
[B]what i think is funny, all you guys trying to stick up for the yfz bikes, honda has the best motocross bikes hands down.. meaning handling, power is about equal, But wait a second here, would you rather a have a bike that is 1 more hp than the other, but then again the handling sucks so you have to work 2 times harder to win? And yamaha copied honda with the aluminum frame, honda is way ahead of yamaha in motocross related so keep it to yourself..


Another person whose point is lost because they don't know common knowledge. Ok Skippy, here ya go. Yamaha bikes, they use steel frames. Now, the upcoming 2005 yz125 is supposed to have an alluminum frame, but it is not out yet. And yes, the CRF has a much easier to ride chassis than the YZ450F, but then again, the YZ250 is one of the best handling motocross bikes ever made. I would hope the Honda handles better, it came out three years after the YZ thumpers hit the market.

It would suck if a manufacturer brought out a product a while after the competition and didn't hands down beat it.........

sorry, Honda just did.



I didn't say the TRX sucked, so you can keep your flames to yourselves, I said that it is no better than what was already available, unless you have hemroids. If you look at the FACTS, it isn't as good. Less travel, less power, no e start. Face it, if Honda had produced the YFZ, it would have been the GREATEST FREAKIN QUAD EVER HANDS DOWN. ANd if Yamaha would have produced the TRX half a year later, you Honda guys would have had a feild day bashing it. Anyone who says they wouldn't have is lying to themselves.

The only thing that is for sure is this...... there will be a bunch pf people on TRXs, YFZs and in a year or so the new Z450. The person who enjoys what he has is the true winner, no matter whether it is red, blue or yellow. (or green I guess)

Scott



Please dont tell me you called me skippy, get off my back, You didnt prove shlt to me? like i said, yamaha is coming out with the aluminum frame, are you trying to show me up by saying it is coming out in 2005? i could give 2 shlts less, it is coming out isnt it? You seem to have quite alot of cocky remarks to just about anything everyone says dont you? did you say flamers keep to yourselves? maybe you should follow your own words..

[jarsong]

Originally posted by psd1
SCOTTIE MAC Hit the nail on the head with this one!

Face it, if Honda had produced the YFZ, it would have been the GREATEST FREAKIN QUAD EVER HANDS DOWN. ANd if Yamaha would have produced the TRX half a year later, you Honda guys would have had a feild day bashing it. Anyone who says they wouldn't have is lying to themselves.


Good point, but that is how it works, especially when we drop such a large amount of coin on these things. NO ONE wants to spend 6-7K and then have to say something else is better...it just isnt human nature! If I spend 7 Large, I damn sure know what I bought was the best, otherwise I must be stupid for spending that much on an inferior product! (Not trying to implicate anything here)

Same goes for the Ford/Chevy, Polaris/Arctic Cat, Murray/John Deere wars!
:D

You sort of know me PDS1 , I like a little controversy. But I must say now I'm even getting tired of this TRX/YFZ thing. (Notice I put the TRX first, this is out of respect for this HONDA board).... Geez.
To you others, there isn't a best between these two and Don't compare the two at the pro-level, it's really meaningless. At that level it's the rider and the bike just has to finish the race. Both are capable if finishing with the Money dumped into them. The real difference will be in the rest of us that just run the heck out of them week nights and weekends playing. At this level I still don't see enough difference between the two. I mean it's just your preference. Honda will be smoother more comfortable, trail machine. But you have to kick it to start. Yamaha will have a couple bike lengths in a drag race and a electric start. Average person on a track? They will BOTH share wins hour by hour.
jarsong

[Scottie Mac]

Originally posted by bobby88
Please dont tell me you called me skippy, get off my back, You didnt prove shlt to me? like i said, yamaha is coming out with the aluminum frame, are you trying to show me up by saying it is coming out in 2005? i could give 2 shlts less, it is coming out isnt it? You seem to have quite alot of cocky remarks to just about anything everyone says dont you? did you say flamers keep to yourselves? maybe you should follow your own words..

Tell you what, I won't call you Skippy anymore, you get your facts straight for once. You NEVER said Yamaha was "coming out" with an alluminum framed bike, you said they copied Honda's alluminum frame. Well..... not. Wrong again BOBBY. (better?)

The Honda CR bikes use a perimeter frame (meaning the gas tank sits in between two upper frame rails) where the new, as yet to be released, YZ aluminum frame is a "backbone" or single rail frame. (meaning the tank straddles one single top frame rail) Now, please explain to all of us howo that is copying? Have you actually seen a pic of the new YZ frame or are you speculating? I have seen a pic of the new frame and it is nothing like the CR style frames. Ohhhhhh, I get it, its alluminum, those darn Honda engineers, they invented alluminum! Now, if you can't understand that this is sarcasm, I can't help you, but don't shoot the messenger for correcting your mistakes.

Seeing that this is a quad forum, a forum that is supposed to be less brand biased (see Pappy's thread "I have the answer") I will stand buy what I said before, while I believe these are the nicest two ATVs ever made for us sport freaks, I believe, in my opinion, that the YFZ is a better quad. Yes, it has a hard seat, but I have ridden a lot of bikes too, and the seats on bikes are just like the seat on the YFZ. I would rather have a hard seat with better power, handling and more travel than a comfortable seat. If I wanted that, I would buy a Z400, they have the most comfy seat available on a sport quad.

But, to each his own.

Scott

Originally posted by Scottie Mac
Tell you what, I won't call you Skippy anymore, you get your facts straight for once. You NEVER said Yamaha was "coming out" with an alluminum framed bike, you said they copied Honda's alluminum frame. Well..... not. Wrong again BOBBY. (better?)

The Honda CR bikes use a perimeter frame (meaning the gas tank sits in between two upper frame rails) where the new, as yet to be released, YZ aluminum frame is a "backbone" or single rail frame. (meaning the tank straddles one single top frame rail) Now, please explain to all of us howo that is copying? Have you actually seen a pic of the new YZ frame or are you speculating? I have seen a pic of the new frame and it is nothing like the CR style frames. Ohhhhhh, I get it, its alluminum, those darn Honda engineers, they invented alluminum! Now, if you can't understand that this is sarcasm, I can't help you, but don't shoot the messenger for correcting your mistakes.

Seeing that this is a quad forum, a forum that is supposed to be less brand biased (see Pappy's thread "I have the answer") I will stand buy what I said before, while I believe these are the nicest two ATVs ever made for us sport freaks, I believe, in my opinion, that the YFZ is a better quad. Yes, it has a hard seat, but I have ridden a lot of bikes too, and the seats on bikes are just like the seat on the YFZ. I would rather have a hard seat with better power, handling and more travel than a comfortable seat. If I wanted that, I would buy a Z400, they have the most comfy seat available on a sport quad.

But, to each his own.

Scott


And like i said before, i am done arguing with you. so SCOTTYMAC, i expect you do the same. And actually, i know quite a bit about bikes, seeing as i have owned them all my life, and have rode with people all my life with them.. and obviously you know alot about quads and speeds of quads..

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by ATC83
What a bunch of B.S. Why are so many people trying to make excuses for Honda? When I put $7000.00 down on a bike that Honda advertises as a "purpose built race machine" then I expect it to be that not some bike made for joe blow to run around the trails on. Unfortunately that’s not what you get with the TRX450R. Your whole premise is ridiculous. Do you really think Honda used this philosophy when they developed the CRF450? They advertise it as a "purpose built motocross bike". I'm sure Honda will go back to the drawing board and in a few years we will see a vastly different bike. If they don't it looks like a Yamaha will be the replacement for the 250R (something I never thought I would ever say).

You're right it is BS. It's called Business Sense. I'm not makeing any excuses. I love my 450R and wouldn't trade it for a YFZ for anything. Honda is out to make money. If they build a "RACE" quad it would cost $25K and noone would be able to buy it. Same with Yamaha. So they both build a bike that is race capable but will fit the majority of the people that will be rideing them. I gurantee that Honda will sell more units than Yamaha. Also it has yet to be seen what is actually a better bike. It is funny how one mag says one is better than the other in one aspect and everyone says that it is automaticlly the best bike for every application. Honda and Yamaha know that anyone raceing competitively is going to mod the bikes so they make it so it will fit the masses and it will be a good platform to be competitive with the mods that would be done anyway. I think Honda did a better job of hitting the mark for a unit to be sold to the general public. Where it is more comfortable and easier to ride for 90% of the people that are going to own it but it will easily complement the mods that will be done for the race track to make it a VERY serious competator.

[psd1]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
I gurantee that Honda will sell more units than Yamaha.




What are you basing this off of? Pretty ballsy statement this early in the game! Only time will tell for sure!

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by psd1
What are you basing this off of? Pretty ballsy statement this early in the game! Only time will tell for sure!

History

[Hammer trx450r]

well said 2004

[yellowrider]

i'm not saying honda isnt a good bike, but i thought they came up a little short. I was hoping to spend 6500.00 dollars and get the very best 4 wheeler .. but yet it got 2nd best and it has a kick starter..

in while the yammie has more horsepower, they also got electric start. which is a good thing that honda should have thought about.

but as far as looks and sitting down on both of them i fell more home on the honda...

the bike that he raced wasn't stock. i am hoping i get as a chance to watch him race a stock one cause the 450 only beat it by a bike length. (that would have probably helped if i told that sooner)

[yellowrider]

i'm not saying honda isnt a good bike, but i thought they came up a little short. I was hoping to spend 6500.00 dollars and get the very best 4 wheeler .. but yet it got 2nd best and it has a kick starter..

in while the yammie has more horsepower, they also got electric start. which is a good thing that honda should have thought about.

but as far as looks and sitting down on both of them i fell more home on the honda...

the bike that he raced wasn't stock. i am hoping i get as a chance to watch him race a stock one cause the 450 only beat it by a bike length. (that would have probably helped if i told that sooner)

[kwatts400]

I think it is funny how alot of people all of a sudden take what dirtwheels said as the truth. I will say this about their shootout, it reminded me of reading the shootouts between the r, quadracer, & tecate-4 back in 87 & 88. Each of them had their strenghts & weaknesses back then, just like they do now. It almost seemed like they rated the r this time, exactly the same as they did back then. We all know how history turned out for the 250r:cool: . The real winner is, take your pick. The fun you will have from owning either of these bikes is worth so much more than any words written in a magazine.

It seems as if even dirtwheels is on the e-start bandwagon . This is my personal experience with e-start. It always took me longer to get my old 400ex started than any of the 250r's or banshee's that I rode with. If I hadn't ridden it for a while, I had better remember to charge the battery or I was done. (Same was true on my old cbr600f4 that I just traded in). It was a sad sight seeing a new bike being pull-started by a 15 year old bike:confused: . So far, my 450r has been first or second kick every time:D . Now that I have my carb straightened out on my 250r, its easy too. I've now come to my own conclusion that the 450r is easier to start than my 250r, and my old 400ex as well!

Just my 2 cents for ya.

[trx11t]

"I gurantee that Honda will sell more units than Yamaha. "

Not trying to flame anyone here but why do you think that Honda will sell more? The Raptor out sells everything on the market today easily. Hell the Z-400 sells more than the 400EX Honda does.
The Warrior out sells the 300EX and the Blaster sells about equal to the 250EX.
The fact is Yamaha sells way more sport ATV's than any other brand. I think I read somewhere that the Warrior was the best selling ATV ever.
If you have information that proves otherwise I would like to hear it.
And don't forget about the Banshee.

[trueblue450]

but guys the yfz cost 400$$ more.

i could put that in the 450r and have a way better bike..

lmfao:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

with the everyone mods their machines out that not true.. i race and i cant afford to put a 2500 front end and 2000 back end on my bike. so im gonna want the better one stock for stock, and i can tell you the yfz has plenty of power, and im sure the trx has plenty of power both for the c-b classes..

[jarsong]

Originally posted by trx11t
"I gurantee that Honda will sell more units than Yamaha. "

Not trying to flame anyone here but why do you think that Honda will sell more? The Raptor out sells everything on the market today easily. Hell the Z-400 sells more than the 400EX Honda does.
The Warrior out sells the 300EX and the Blaster sells about equal to the 250EX.
The fact is Yamaha sells way more sport ATV's than any other brand. I think I read somewhere that the Warrior was the best selling ATV ever.
If you have information that proves otherwise I would like to hear it.
And don't forget about the Banshee.

I have had two local dealerships that sell both and have nothing to loose say that Yamaha has outs sold Honda for the last few years. I can't prove it but they had no reason to lie.
jarsong

[eddings]

Originally posted by trueblue450
but guys the yfz cost 400$$ more.

i could put that in the 450r and have a way better bike..

lmfao:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

with the everyone mods their machines out that not true.. i race and i cant afford to put a 2500 front end and 2000 back end on my bike. so im gonna want the better one stock for stock, and i can tell you the yfz has plenty of power, and im sure the trx has plenty of power both for the c-b classes..

I am not flaming on you, but wanted to point some things out. Neither quad is a pro level mx quad off the showroom floor, but the YFZ is wider, faster, lower cg, and the front end isn't too light like I believe the 450r's to be after riding one.

I feel stock for stock I would pay the $400 extra to get a wider, lower, more powerful quad with electric start. By the time you push the hot start button on your R mine will be started and moving. Not to mention that the YFZ does not require a new cam.

Most people who race are going to by an FCR carb for the 450R. After buying that and the cam you have spent the extra $400 on stuff that the yamaha already comes with.

I do believe the Honda will be a more reliable machine in the long run.

[2004TRX450R]

The TRX300 was the best selling ATV ever. Utility ATVs sell way more than sport ATVs. Where you getting your info? From what you see at the dunes or actual hard numbers? I haven't looking into the hard numbers for awhile but I know awhile back Honda had 40% of the market share. Yamaha I belive was a bit of a distanct second followed by Suzuki and Kawi. Granted that is over all sales for all units not just quads. But Honda has built a HUGE reputation for being the best. That isn't necessarily the fastest at the track (though I think they have more championships than any other manufacturer as well) but over all best in performance, reliability, comfort etc. Look at when the TRX400EX came out. It was an instand hit because of Honda's reputation. They sold like hotcakes. Now that the other manufacturers have decided to get competitive in the sport ATV market again there have been others that followed that have more power and are faster and have better suspension than the TRX400EX so the sales have slipped a bit. I don't know that the Warrior has out sold them though. I know at the dealer I work at we don't sell hardly any Warriors and we sell a few more TRX400EXs than we do warriors. I know we have sold a lot more TRX250EXs than we have sold Blasters. I think we have even sold more TRX400EXs than we have sold Banshees. I would have to say we have sold more Raptors than TRX400EXs and now since Yamaha has come out with the YFZ we have sold quite a few of those as well. Obviously we haven't sold many TRX450Rs yet because we have only had one. So due to Honda's reputation and their history of selling more units than any other manufacturer I think it is safe to say they will sell more TRX450R than Yamaha will YFZ450s.

[psd1]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
The TRX300 was the best selling ATV ever. I think it is safe to say they will sell more TRX450R than Yamaha will YFZ450s.

I am sure that a year or so ago I saw a couple quotes that said the Warrior was the best selling quad. But I could be wrong. If I had more time I would search it out.

Check six, because earlier in this thread you guaranteed that Honda would sell more Trx's than Yamaha...now you say "I think it is safe to say they will sell more TRX450R than Yamaha will YFZ450s." Which is it??? Is it a guarantee or a safe bet??

Peace-out!

[robby26wi]

There is no way in hell yamaha sells even close to what Honda sells for atv's and as for bikes i would say honda sells more crf450's then the entire yz lineup.....and as for yamaha....pound yer yfz for a few years and pound a trx for a few years and see what happens....There are some bone stock 86-89 250r's out there still tearin it up....I wouldnt take a 86-96 yamaha anything after a few years of use and abuse with anything OTHER then a honda you usually end up with junk....and as for the yfz's having electric start.....BIG FRICKEN DEAL.....yamaha couldnt make a good electric start for a quad if they had to.....replace the stator and starter with honda units and then you may have something...You guy should take a trip over to the blue board...I am sure there is some junk to fix over there....

[r450rr]

the rancher is on pace to beat even the fourtrax 300 in totall sales... AND YES THE HONDA FOURTRAX 300 is the sellingist atv of all time.. cause RELIABILITY>>> definatly not speed.



i love my 300 4X4, its never gave me any problems..


cant wait for the R either , have a feeling its going to be a good one..(IN THE LONG RUN)