Sparks Pipe Question

[Evan]

I broke one of my bolts on the endcap of my stock silencer today trying to take it out and clean it, so I tried an easy-out but that broke off in it also, so I am thinking about getting a pipe. I have 3 choices. 1. Pro Circuit - seems to have adjustability and good power gains and light weight. Oh BTW I am only looking for slipons. 2. TC pipe - good gains, cheap, loud, but I have seen 2 break so I am hesitant. 3. Curtis Sparks X-4 - Good gains and looks good, but do they sell just a slipon or do you have to buy the header also? From looking at their website you have to buy the whole set but I really didnt want to mess with the header.
Thanks for your response

[Dave400ex]

I have the TC Pipe and like it a lot. I have never heard about them Breaking. If I bought another Pipe, I would still Buy a TC. The Sparks Pipe only comes in a Complete System. I would just Grind out the Welds in the Header Pipe like everybody says to do. I would get the Brand of Pipe who you are going to get Motor Work from. You will like any of those Pipes.

[Quadfather]

Xrider:

I have a complete Curtis Sparks X4 system, like new, for $300 plus hipping. Let me know, I can email you pictures of it.

[James70214]

I'd go with the tc slip on. I have never seen one break at the track. Sound really good to.

[kabd69667]

I got the sparks pipe...its a great pipe. Sounds good, looks good, and great power gains. Mostly bottom end but some mid through top. I'd deffinetly buy another sparks pipe

If noise is a concern I hear that the yoshi slip-on is a little quieter and provides good gains. It seems to fair well in all the mag tests.

[Evan]

Not that it makes that much of a difference but which is louder, and which one has more power? TC or Sparks? I am looking for lowend and I understand both of these have it.

One of the TC's I saw break broke twice, I am not sure how it broke the first time but the guy had it rewelded, and it worked like new, then it broke again when I was with him, in a different spot, right where it starts to bend close to the header, he just jumped a jump and it broke, he thinks vibration worked some of the clamps or hangers loose and it rattled around a little. Its not TCs fault b/c it broke on the black part which is made by supertrapp. I am not saying all TCs are bad but it makes me hesitate a little b4 buying one. This quad was ridden primarily for MX which is what I will be doing so.......

[Dave400ex]

I`ve never seen or heard a Sparks so I can only tell you about the TC. The TC is Very Loud. When we go to Red Bud I would say it is the Loudest there. I really didn`t see to many Sparks Pipes. The Sparks Pipes are Loud too. Chris29 and Rico said the TC is the Loudest they have ever heard. If there not the same, it`s really close. The Power I can`t say much either. I don`t know about Sparks. I am happy with my Pipe. I heard the more Motor Mods you do the Better it is. So I don`t know. If you have ever talked to Tom (TC) all he talks about is Torque. Everything he Builds is built for Torque. I asked him about his Pipe and where the Pipe adds the Most Power. He said Bottom End. I think the TC is great. You won`t go wrong with either Pipe. Like I said before, I would get the Brand of Pipe from the Company you plan on getting Motor Work from.

[Evan]

I cant make up my mind which one I want. How much did your TC cost? I dont like the idea of cutting my headpipe and I would like to be able to return it to stock fairly easily if I want to ride around in my neigborhood, b/c if I have a loud pipe they could tell exactly where I am. Do they make a quiet core for the x-4. Right now I am leaning towards the PC t-4 but I could change my mind

[kabd69667]

They do make a quiet core thing for the sparks, but you have to drill out the rivets and put it in. THen you put new rivits in it. So it would be a hassle to take it out and everything. But they said you don't loose any power. I wasn't real sure of that part

[Dave400ex]

My TC was $338 Shipped and I got it in about 4-5 Days. Nobody around my House has said anything about my Pipe. You could put all the SuperTrapp Discs on it to Quiet it down some. I think they make a Quiet Core for it too. I just don`t want one on mine. Sparks does make a Quiet Core, but like Kabd69667 said you have to Drill Out the Rivets to put it in and take it out. That would not be worth it. The T-4 would be ok, but if you are going to Build a 416 Motor I would get the TC. I think you would like the TC. Do your Neighbors really care if it`s Loud or not?

[Evan]

Well thats pluses for both of em. My neighbors wont complain but I dont want to piss them off so that I cant ride around where I want to anymore. Eventually I will get a 416 and I agree with you that you should get the pipe from whoever builds your motor. But thats another problem I havent made up my mind, either TC or sparks?? I heard of a guy that has a TC 440 I think, and he said it was fast as everything. But I will go with a 416 either totally built by TC or sparks. As it looks now I would like to go with sparks but I will most likely go with TC since he seems to have less of a wait than sparks and seems just about as good. So what I think I will do now is buy a PC slipon till I make up my mind then sell it and get the whole kit and kaboodle all at one time from TC or sparks.
Is TCs website up? What would a full all out 416 kit from TC cost?

[Dave400ex]

That sounds like a Good Idea. Sparks is way backed up. In another Post a guy said Sparks told him he wouldn`t be able to get to his Motor until November. That is a Very Long wait. I think he said TC was Six Weeks behind. All the Engine Builders are behind right now. TC`s site is still not done. I think the 416 Kit from TC is around $1500. The Sparks is around $3000. I will go with TC or Duncan when I do my Motor, but I already have the TC Pipe so I will most likely go with TC.

[Evan]

Well I bought the PC T-4 slipon from indygnc for 100 bucks, cant beat that deal. Later when I get my motorwork don I will buy another pipe from whoever I get to do my work. TC or Sparks?
I want sparks but since hes backed up maybe TC.

[breaks-alot]

X-Rider: This shouldn't be a comparison. TC is when you don't have the money for a sparks. I live in an area where there has to be AT LEAST 50 well built 400exs(from Baldwin, Fisher and Bateman) every one of them either has an x-6 or want and x-6. This is the only pipe that Mark Baldwin (Tim Farr's mechanic) wants to sell to people. It’s loud but if your MODDING your motor the x-6 is definitely the way to go...... Tell you the truth before I read quad magazines and went on here at the races it seemed like everything else was like filling a coffee can with rags and attaching it to your header. This pipe is definitely race proven itself but only if you have a modded engine.

[Dave400ex]

I think TC is just as good as Sparks. For the Wait difference, TC is the way to go. My Brother waited for a while to get his Motor back from TC, but when he rode his TC 250R National Motor the wait was well worth it. His Motor was very expensive though. I always wanted Sparks too. I looked at his Prices and looked at TC`s Prices. Sparks is way to expensive. Anything you do will be better then Stock. After seeing my Brother`s 250R run, TC gets my Money.

[Evan]

Well I got my stock pipe fixed just 2 bolts holding it in though. I am still going to put the PC on when it comes. Come to think of it I raced a guy with a stock 400 with just a TC pipe, I beat him pretty bad, he was a little bigger than me though maybe 20#s. I got tricked the other day, I told some of you guys I got beat by a 400 with just a TC pipe and K&N, well it turns out I talked to the guys couisin, this guy had just got this 99 400 for 5000. Well his cousin said thats not all thats on it, turns out the whole motor was built by TC, pipe, cam, carb, 416, larger valves, modified ignition box, lightened flywheel, who knows what else was done to it. The first time I raced I got a good jump on him but my clunky boots wouldnt let hit 2nd so I went to neutral, needless to say he won that one easily. The next time I got an OK not the best start and he pretty much left me anyway, beat me by 5-10 quad lengths. I think if hes out at the track this sunday I am going to either wear my shoes or wear my boots with the shifter raised up a notch then maybe I can get a decent start, not saying I will win, but this guy is OK on a MX track so thats where I get him, thats where my suspension mods come into play, makes up for my lack of HP.




Oh BTW I have never been beaten in a drag race by a piped 400 and mine is stock with a K&N filter. Not bragging its just funny.

[Dave400ex]

If you can Beat a 400 with a TC Pipe just think of how Bad you would beat that Guy if you had a TC Pipe too. I`m sure you could beat Piped 400EX`s if the Rider wasn`t that good. You must be a better Rider then the Guys you were Racing.

Do you know who your getting Motor Work from Yet?

[400MXer]

one of my buddies has a procuircit with a k&n, and i have a duncan with a K&N and i beat him everytime. then we switched quads...lol....and i still beat him.

yeah, who are you gonna get your motor done by? once your motor is built, your quad will be SWEEEEET.

[Evan]

Maybe I am a better rider who knows??? But I would of thought that the pipes would help on top end and the field we race in you can stay in 5th for a couple seconds so you really are maxed out. The other day I raced a raptor and it was so close the guy pulled up next to me and said "whadaya got done to that thing", "I know it aint stock" I said just a K&N he said "BS you got to have something" I said look at my pipe if I modified anything I would start with the pipe, he just shook his head, he wasnt to happy with his free quad, he won it in a raffle, so he says. His was stock too. I just took the snorkle off and the airbox lid so hopefully it will help when I race that 416 this weekend.

Aint decided on my motor cuz I aint got the money right now for it, trying to put my R back together. When the time comes I will give it more thought. Most likely it will be TC at this moment. But it sure would be nice to have a Sparks when no one else around has one, I dont think there would be anything around here that would touch it(on 4 wheels) unless it was a CR 500 or some dirtbike like my cousins KTM 250 How would a sparks 416 kit hold up to a heavily modded banshee, with no major motor work, something that has everything but a stroker kit in it. The only banshees around here just have pipes and carbs and stuff nothing radical unless I go to this place where we used to ride, this guy had Banshee with 5K in the motor and most dirt bikes couldnt touch him.

[jcv400ex]

Hetrick racing installs their 416 national kit for $499.00 www.hetrickracing.com

And their pipe is a version of the Sparks pipe. At $375 with a headpipe, it's a heck of alot cheaper than sparks, and when compared to TC's hacked up supertrapp slipon for $368, why wouldn't you pay alittle more and get the full system? It also will outperform both of them.....

[Dave400ex]

Go with TC or Sparks. I`m sure the Hetrick 416 is Good, but for $500 it`s not going to be as Good as a TC 416 or a Sparks 416. The TC Pipe is $338 with Shipping. I have one and it looks good. On Hetrick`s Site it says their 400EX Pipe is $408. That`s not Bad. The Sparks and Hetrick Pipe are about the same, so I don`t see how the Hetrick is any better. For a 416 Motor, go with TC or Sparks.

[jcv400ex]

The design of the tube going into the muffler from the headpipe, that's where the difference is.

Hey, no problem, you want to pay for the name, then go with TC or Sparks. You want a solid engine for a reasonable price, so you can get other parts, check out Hetricks. I'm telling you, you won't be dissapointed. My engine is as strong as any TC or Sparks.

[Dave400ex]

That Hetrick`s Pipe looks very Nice. If I didn`t already have my TC Pipe it would be Hard to choose between Sparks or Hetrick`s. Sure the Cheaper Price from Hetrick`s helps it out a lot, but I would most likely get a Sparks because I would rather have Sparks Motor Work. I`m not saying Hetrick`s isn`t Bad, but there is no way their $500 416 Kit is keeping up with a $1500 to $2000 TC 416 or a $3000 Sparks 416. I just can`t see how that could Happen.

What Kit do you have? What all does it come with?

[400MXer]

The design of the tube going into the muffler from the headpipe, that's where the difference is.

what's so different about it. looks to me like hetricks just copied the sparks pipe. why don't they make their own design.

[CBRSLIDER]

I don't understand why the price keeps going up on the TC 416. I went to Tom's in Dec. and he told me that it would cost me $600.00 for his 425 setup. He didn't even want to talk about doing a 416. He said that it was not worth it and that I wouldn't lose any reliability with the 425. He told me that I would have to take the motor out and just drop it off. I originally was told that the whole kit would only cost me $475.00 and was not happy with the $600. Now is the 416 worth it? Why wasn't it then? Unfortunately I could not afford it at that time, so I had to look else where.

I then went to Hetrick's. I talked to Rich there and he was very informative. He was one **** of a nice guy and really seemed knowledgeable about the 416 setup. He talked about the motor work and showed that same concerns as Tom did. I decided to go with Hetrick's and it cost me $480 for the kit and installation, but he had to replace some parts in my motor that were worn out. He also used only Honda gaskets and Honda valve seals. So the total price with PA sales tax was $528.00. Plus I didn't have to take my motor out of the frame. Another reason I chose Hetrick was that he is a racer and promotes the races at our local track. He also sponsors local riders. Hence if I can show that his product helped me in my racing, then there may be a possible sponsorship or even a discount on race parts. Maybe or maybe not. Who knows. But I know that I wasn't getting a sponsorship from TC.

I really liked talking to Tom and think that he is definately one of the best in his field of work. But remember that just because Hetrick's is cheaper, doesn't mean that it is lower quality. Tom started somewhere and it wasn't the top. Rich is very knowledgeable and builds some strong motors.

It just comes down to personal preference. Or if all you want is a name. OOH. My motor was done by TC or Sparks or Duncan, or Joe Sh*t the Ragman. If ya can't ride it to its potential then its worthless.

Now for the post about the hetrick pipe looking like a sparks and why not just design their own. Well yes it does look the same. But look at the Sparks, Hetrick's, TC, LRD, and Graydon, they are all based on the Supertrapp design. But it is the internals that differentiate between them all. So why reinvent the wheel? Just improve upon it. Just as Hetrick did. Plus the price is $375-$380, which is alot better than paying $485. Or $325-$335 for a partial pipe from TC. And man is the TC ever loud. It is actually sickening to me. But once again it is all personal preference. I do like the Sparks pipes and almost bought a used one. But would never buy a new one.

Figured that I would add my two cents worth. If ya don't like it too bad.:D

Ray

[330EXman]

Get a TC or CT. both of these are good good pipes. also HMF and LRD are really good pipes too. LRD is my favorite and i love my two.

later man.

[Dave400ex]

What all came in the Kit for $600? I called TC and he told me a 425 Piston Kit, XC Cam, and his Pipe is a Great XC Setup. I think he told me around $650 for it all. I didn`t think that was Bad. TC also told me to go with the 425. I`m not sure what I will do yet. If I get a 416 I still have one more over-bore left before I have to Re-Sleeve. That`s why I am thinking about the 425.

The Kit I was talking about was the TC 416 National. X-Rider wants the TC or Sparks 416 National Kit. I think the TC is around $1500 and the Sparks is around $3000. That`s a HUGE price difference. I would like to have a Sparks, but the Sparks can`t be worth another $1500. If it is, that`s Crazy.

My Brother talked to Hetrick`s about getting PEP Shocks. Rich knew a lot about Shocks. My Brother was very happy with how he explained all the Stuff. Hetrick`s Motor Kit seems to be very Cheap. I`m not saying it`s not good, I just can`t believe how cheap it is. That`s good Hetrick didn`t make you take your Motor out. It saved you a lot of Pain and Time. TC must not want to Mess with it.

I agree that it really comes down to which Motor Builder you like Best. The three you listed are the three I like Best. I will not Send my Motor Out though. It`s Crazy how long the Engine Builders are backed up. I`ll just order a TC Piston Kit and a TC XC Cam and have Jason Orr put them in. I trust him just as much as I would trust TC. Plus he can do it in one day and I can go Riding.

The Sparks, Hetricks, LRD, and Graydon look a lot alike but the TC doesn`t look anything like them. It`s a lot Shorter. I agree. Why not just Improve and make it better. Hetrick did that and I don`t know if his Pipe is better then Sparks or not. I`ve never seen those Pipes. Man, let me tell you. The TC is KILLER LOUD. Being a Kid I love how it Sounds. It is Loud though. I`m done for Now.

[Evan]

So tell me why a TC 425 costs less than a TC416? Also do ya know if you have to send the motor in for any 416 kits? I would assume not since there is no need to machine the cases, unless they wanted to put a stronger rod in. So the wait is how long for Sparks... till nov??? What about TC?? 8 weeks?? Hmm wonder if you payed them a little extra could they kinda get to it sooner.

Hetrick vs Sparks= no way(well from what Ive heard) Hetrick vs TC, I have never seen a hetrick 400 run but I have seen a TC 416 and liked it, but if I saw them side by side then I could give an honest answer, if they are as good as TC then you will hear people talk about them and they will become more popular, so give them a couple years and if there a popular name then their good.

[Dave400ex]

The TC 425 Kit is only a TC 425 Piston Kit, TC Cam, and TC`s Pipe. That`s why it is so Cheap. The 416 Motor I am talking about is a Complete National Motor like the Sparks 416. It`s the Motor Chris29 has. For the 425 you wouldn`t have to Send your Motor to TC, but for the 416 National Motor you might have to. You could just Send your Cylinder and whatever Else TC had to have. The Sparks 416 you will have to Send your Motor to Sparks. He puts a New Rod and Welds on the Crank. The wait for Sparks is til Nov. That`s when he could get to it. That`s not when it`s going to be Done. I think Chad said TC told him he could get to his Motor in 6 Weeks. You would have to Wait a little Longer. Just call and ask them.

I have to Agree. I really don`t think Hetrick can Compare to TC or Sparks. I don`t know. I would have to see all Three Run.

[jcv400ex]

Well, for a piston, all the gaskets, (and mind you there all Honda), the Web cam, boring out the cylinder, port and polish, clean up the valves and new valve seals......I was at $529! And it is stronger then HE!! It's one heck of an engine. That much work at TC, would have cost me over $900, easily. And I would have had to take out my engine. You tell me who got the best deal?

[Dave400ex]

$529 for all that Stuff is a very Good Deal. I`m sure TC would have been around $900, but you can`t say that the TC Motor wouldn`t have been a better Motor. Hetrick`s is very Good. I would Build a Hetrick`s Motor, but I have a TC Pipe so I`m building a TC Motor. I wonder why TC wants you to take out your Motor when you can just Drop the hole Quad off. He must not want to mess with taking it out and putting it back in. That`s good to hear about Hetricks, but I will be going with TC.

[Taco]

I just wanted to add something in here. The same company manufactures the pipes for hetrick, sparks, graydon, and i believe LRD also. There might be minor differences but they are produced by the same company. Hetrick330ex or whatever his name is posted this.

[jcv400ex]

But, you can't say that the TC engine is anybetter than mine either. It's not like it's anything special. Tear the engine down, bore the cylinder, port the head, put it all back together. Same brand of piston and same brand of cam. ALL YOUR PAYING FOR IS WHO DOES IT..........

[Evan]

Are you sure TC uses web cams?? Also porting is defintely diferent from each builder. So if there the same yours should keep up with a sparks or TC with the same thing done to it right??? I would find that hard to belive.

[Dave400ex]

No I can`t. It might be the same Stuff, but TC knows what Stuff works the Best with each other. You don`t understand what Kit I`m talking about. You are talking about a Piston, Cam, and some Porting. The TC 416 National Motor is a High Compression Piston, TC Racing Cam, TC Race Porting, Heavy Duty Valves, Flywheel is Lightend, 38mm Lectron Carb, and a TC Pipe. Now, how can you say that Hetricks 416 Kit will keep up with something that has Twice as many Mods? There is no way it can. Look at all the Crap the Sparks 416 National Kit has? If anybody says a Hetrick`s Motor is as good as Sparks they are just Crazy.

[330EXman]

hey man they dont manufactor LRD pipes. i know that LRD makes theres by hand!

[jcv400ex]

Originally posted by WarriorMan
No I can`t. It might be the same Stuff, but TC knows what Stuff works the Best with each other. You don`t understand what Kit I`m talking about. You are talking about a Piston, Cam, and some Porting. The TC 416 National Motor is a High Compression Piston, TC Racing Cam, TC Race Porting, Heavy Duty Valves, Flywheel is Lightend, 38mm Lectron Carb, and a TC Pipe. Now, how can you say that Hetricks 416 Kit will keep up with something that has Twice as many Mods? There is no way it can. Look at all the Crap the Sparks 416 National Kit has? If anybody says a Hetrick`s Motor is as good as Sparks they are just Crazy.

Listen, I'm not getting into a pissing contest with some little punk like you. My whole thing is, Tom charges outragous prices for what he does. For my exact setup from Tom, would have been around $900. NEVER said anything about Hetrick's national kit versus TC's. I wouldn't put a POS letron carb on my quad or lighten my flywheel.

If I added a FCR carb, and Hetricks exhaust, you'd see my rear number plate....with the TC 416 national kit. Don't believe me? What the races this season. We can sit here and argue all damn day, the real results will be on the track. So just wait and see

[Dave400ex]

Hey I don`t want to Fight either. I was just making sure you knew what Kit I was talking about. If you think TC is Expensive look at How Much Sparks charges. That is Crazy. You get what you pay for. To tell you the Truth I wouldn`t put a Lectron Carb on my 400EX or Lighten my Flywheel either. For Cross Country I don`t need a different Carb. If I did get one it would be a 39mm FCR Carb.

That TC National Motor is a Killer. I don`t know if a Carb and Pipe would get you in Front or Not. I don`t really care. You think Hetricks is the Best and I think TC is the Best. What I should be saying is I know Sparks is the Best. Who is Running a Hetricks Motor this Year in GNCC? I`m going to Red Bud so I will look and see where they are. TC has had Four Strokes out front for years and I think they will still be there. I don`t really care. If I cared I would just say the Heck with Hetricks and TC both and Buy me a Sparks Kit. I really don`t want to pay $375 for a Sparks Drop-In Cam though.

[jcv400ex]

No, I'm not saying they're the best. But I do rate them up there with any national rider engine builder. Rich is a top notch guy. He's going places. I just would like him to get some notice out there. I'm just tired of only reading about Sparks or TC in here that's all. I'm just bringing them to everyone's attention.

Kevin Wise and Jim Hetrick are going to be running some GNCC races for Hetrick's, but I think they're both on 250r's.

[Taco]

Originally posted by 330EXman
hey man they dont manufactor LRD pipes. i know that LRD makes theres by hand!

sorry i wasnt sure on the LRD

[barbwire44]

Originally posted by Tacostrk


sorry i wasnt sure on the LRD


F.I.F.W.V......lol!

[Dave400ex]

That`s OK. When My Brother talked to Hetrick`s he said Rich knew what he was talking about. If My Brother had the Money he would have ordered PEP Limited Mass Shocks from Hetrick`s. He had to get Tag T-2 Bars and a Laeger Stem. The more I look at the Hetrick`s stuff the more I like it. My Brother built a TC National Motor for his 250R like Digger ran in 2000. Holy Crap, front end comes up in Fifth. All you hear about is TC and Sparks. There is reasons why though. It`s just like Laeger, PEP, Roll Design, and Axis. Everybody knows what they make and how good it is. TC and Sparks are Top Notch. That`s why I chose to go with TC. Plus I think his Prices are a lot Cheaper then Sparks. Another reason would be because I like Doug Gust and he runs TC. Hetrick`s will get out there Someday. I really like their Pipe though.

Well no Four Strokes. Oh well. I`ll have to look for the Hetrick Trailer.

[Evan]

Well I got my T-4 from indyncc or whatever his name is and slapped it on the 400. I did not notice a gain in power in where. I havent jetted it yet b/c he said he would send me the 155 main but he hasnt yet. It sounds good but it will most likey piss the neighbors off, I live on 30 acres so they cant say where I can and cant ride, I hope if I put a jet in it it will help the power, other wise I am sticking the stocker back on. Oh yeah it grabs dirt if you bump your grab bar on the ground. I can hear the rev limiter kicking in now also.

[Evan]

This thing grabs to much dirt if you bump it down during a wheelie, so here is what I plan on doing. I think I will cut 6 inches off the back and re-rivet the endcap back on, what do you think? Will it give me more lowend or just make it louder?

[NJ300ex]

Why don't you just leave it and stop hitting the ground while doing wheelies.