Dirt Wheels shootout

[Woody_YFZ]

I read on another forum from a member who got their March Dirt Wheels and I guess it has an actual shootout between the YFZ and the TRX. I am curious to know what it says, if anyone has any info. on it. He did give the outcome, but that's not important as I'm more just curious about the details of the article.

[lukester720]

Aahhh come on you can tell us. Were going to find out sooner or later. I'm not biast to either quad so I'm not going to start bashing.

[Woody_YFZ]

Here's a link to what he said. The reason I haven't said who won, is because I'm not sure if it's really true. Here's the link:

Shootout (http://www.yfzcentral.com/invision/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=3997&)

[quadrcr161]

i can see the yamaha winning, the 450r isnt out yet and there has already been a lot done for the yfz. its a great bike but i think its just going to be which brand you chose to buy. plus we all know how truthfull the mags really are.

[Woody_YFZ]

Yeah, I don't really care about the politics of it, I'm just curious what they said were strong points, what they like, disliked, etc.

[lukester720]

Thanks for the link woody. I wanna see the details too! It sucks that guy didn't tell anything. Plus my dw's subscription is all screwed up. They send me the mag after its been at the newstand for 3 weeks?!?

[quadrcr161]

yea, i wish i knew what they said about them. it seems like each one says something different.

[Woody_YFZ]

I hope mine doesn't work out like that. I ordered a subscription about 6 weeks ago, so I'm hoping this issue is on it's way. I don't get what the heck takes them so long to process your order.

[lukester720]

I wish you luck woody. I subscribed to another mag at the same time I did with dw's and still haven't received it. And that's been almost 3 months ago!

[Woody_YFZ]

That's not a good sign. Oh well, my buddy gets it too. I called him today and he hadn't gotten it yet, so hopefully soon, then I'll go hawk it from him.

[stryker]

Originally posted by Woody_YFZ
I hope mine doesn't work out like that. I ordered a subscription about 6 weeks ago, so I'm hoping this issue is on it's way. I don't get what the heck takes them so long to process your order.


I subscribed in December and it took six weeks like the lady in the e-mail said. You'll probably end up getting this last months issue along with this upcoming issue back to back. I think my mags were something like 3 days apart from one another. Good luck!:cool:

[lukester720]

Has anyone on here got there dirtwheeels yet. If so give some details. Thanks

[Honda]

I think it is B.S.! March issue isn't even out yet.

[ATC83]

I haven't recieved my new issue of Dirt Wheels yet but I did get my new issue of ATV Rider. They tested the TRX450R in the issue. They had a lot of good things to say about it except for the power and the ergonomics. They thought that the YFZ engine was a much faster and more potent power plant than the TRX450 when they were uncorcked. In addition they liked the ergonomics of the YFZ better. They said that the seat and tank design of the YFZ was designed more for moto cross racing and is similare to what you would find on a modern motocross bike like Honda and Yamaha produce. They said that the seat and tank design on the TRX450 was to bulky for motocross and would have to be changed for racing. They felt that the seat design was dated.

[Crayfish]

Thats funny, everything that I have read up to now says that the Honda had better ergo's than the YFZ? How well, just have to ride them both I suppose and make up my own mind.

[ATC83]

ATV Sport was saying that there is no reason to put such a large gas tank on a motocross bike. The tank on the tRX450 is about 1/3 larger than the YFZ. The size of gas tank that's on the TRX450 is more in line with what you would find on a sport bike. They were just saying in ATV Rider that anyone that is going to race this bike is going to have to hope the aftermarket makes a smaller tank and seat combo.

[trx11t]

Here are a few quote's:

"TRX450R" -
"The center of gravity is on the high side. Also at high speeds the TRX feels a bit unstable"

"It doesn't have the mid range punch that is so important"

"We never thought Honda would take styling tips from Polaris but unfortunately they did."

STock HP 37 White Bros Modified 40 HP

Wet Weight 376 lbs

YFZ450 -

"The Majority of our testers agree the Yamaha YFZ450 is at the top of the high performance class"

"It was a consistant winner on flat ground, up hills, and around corners"

"In the dunes, it's a rocket, the fastest quad up the hill"

Wet Weight 378 lbs

39.3 hp stock - 44.6 hp w/ gytr pipe

[Crayfish]

Makes sense, I guess I was referring to the seat, foot peg, handle bar relationship, more than the size of the gas tank. Besides, with dirt bikes you really benifit from a narrow seat/tank transition for turning purposes, but with quads it's a little different.

[ATC83]

I'm sure that the seat, footpeg, and handle bar relationship on the TRX450 are great. I know that there relationship on my 400EX is excellent. I haven't rode the Honda so I can't say what the ergonomics are like but just from the look of the Honda the gas tank looks huge compared to the Yamaha. It looks more like what you would see on a GNCC quad than a motocrosser. I think Yamaha has really set the standard for the modern motocross ergonomics on an ATV. It's hard to describe the ergos on the Yamaha other than the cockpit is incredible easy to move around. The ergos just let you push your limits even farther on the track than anything I have riden before, even aftermarcket 250R frames.

[quadrcr161]

im not a big fan of the yzf, the way the seat is almost as high as the handle bars, but thats just me and my opinion. i know some things could be changed.

[ATC83]

The first time I sat on the YFZ I wasn't that crazy about it either. It wasn't until I started riding it that I realized just how advanced the ergonomics were. It's really hard to ride other quads now, even my 400EX. I just can't go as fast on them as the YFZ.

[Maxx_Action]

Originally posted by quadrcr161
im not a big fan of the yzf, the way the seat is almost as high as the handle bars, but thats just me and my opinion. i know some things could be changed.

Yeah,

I am long torsoed at 6' tall and it didn't feel quite right even with adjusting the bars. All it took was a different set of bars and it feels totally different, much much improved...

Maxx

[quadrcr161]

im short, 5"8 and just cant feel right on it. everyone around me has the yfz and i wasnt crazy about it when i rode one. i havent rode it now since its modded, but stock? i would have just stayed with my R.

[ATC83]

I had to raise the bars too because I'm 6'-2". After I did that it was great.

[jarsong]

Originally posted by Honda
I think it is B.S.! March issue isn't even out yet.

I agree. I own the YFZ450 and I'm calling BS. I'm also will to stick my neck out a little bit and say that the BIG difference in these two bikes will be the rider. Your weekend worrier will trade victories any given day. And as for a shootout in a mag??? What the heck do they know anyway? I've seen to many time where they were DEAD WRONG! Go enjoy your new 450R's when they come in. They will be a good bike and we can only HOPE that it is the bike that will end the book on 250R's.
jarsong

[JWhite]

The only thing I dislike about the YFZ's are the ergonomics. When I put my toe under the shifter and the other over the brake pedal, both of my heels are way out and my toes are way in. Kind of awkward being all "pigeon toed" like that.

After months I still have not felt comfortable from the knees down. I was actually thinking about fabricating a custom shifter and brake pedal. Or even possibly lowering the pegs a little to see if that helps.

[jarsong]

Originally posted by JWhite
The only thing I dislike about the YFZ's are the ergonomics. When I put my toe under the shifter and the other over the brake pedal, both of my heels are way out and my toes are way in. Kind of awkward being all "pigeon toed" like that.

After months I still have not felt comfortable from the knees down. I was actually thinking about fabricating a custom shifter and brake pedal. Or even possibly lowering the pegs a little to see if that helps.

For me they are about as good as it could get. Makes me feel part of the bike instead of an object on the bike like my 250R/Z400 did/does. Being small the bike is EASY to toss around.
jarsong

[Barely legal]

Made me feel all warm inside when they said this about the YFZ.

"It was a consistant winner on flat ground, up hills, and around corners"

Translate how you will, but that says it all.

[r450rr]

and also.. look who said it... dirtwheels an noone beleives them..
only reason they buy the books is for the member pics..


sorry but that dont say anything.

[linkcmd88]

all i can say is i hate how hard the seat is on the yfz and the f***ing header pipe i burn my leg on it all the time

as for the 405r vs yfz this is how i look at it for full out speed they are almost the same for racing if you race mx buy a yfz if you race gncc buy a 450r i dont think one is better then the other

thats my story and im sticking to it lol :macho

[ATC83]

Originally posted by jarsong
For me they are about as good as it could get. Makes me feel part of the bike instead of an object on the bike like my 250R/Z400 did/does. Being small the bike is EASY to toss around.
jarsong

You really hit the nail on the head with your description of the ergos on the YFZ450. It really does feal like your are part of the bike and not just an object on it. My 400EX and even the 250R make you feel like you are just an object. Its a very similare feeling to when I'm on my ATC.

[jarsong]

Originally posted by ATC83
You really hit the nail on the head with your description of the ergos on the YFZ450. It really does feal like your are part of the bike and not just an object on it. My 400EX and even the 250R make you feel like you are just an object. Its a very similare feeling to when I'm on my ATC.

Yea, When you first sit on it a the dealership you feel sort of wierd on it, it's different and not what your accustomed to. It's not until you get it on a track that you go yea, this is the way they are supposed to feel.... SPeaking of ATC's.... I need a Big Red for working aroung the house... I miss my trikes... :D
jarsong

[petersonracing]

When I sat on the YFZ for the first time I thought it felt really different than the 250R I had always been used to. When I bought my YFZ I changed the bars and it made it 100% better. I agree it feels weird at first for those of us used to riding a Honda. The seat is a little hard at first, but now that I've been riding it a month or so, I don't even notice it.

[4fiddyR]

People! Dirt Wheels is a reader's ride mag. And that is it.
Each time a new quad comes out it is the best handling, most powerful quad ever built. And when they do a shootout with the TRX and YFZ the Honda will win in there book cause it is newer!

The DS came out and it was a top quad, then they did a shootout with the new Raptor, and the Raptor won, then a year or so later the Z400 cam out and it beat the Raptor in the shootout. They also claimed the Preditor as quad of the year. (PLEASE!) Then a couple years later when the YFZ came out it was the next best thing to sliced bread. And so the saga continues....
All I'm saying is buy what you like! If your happy with what you got, that is what is important!
I owned a Raptor and it was a 01, and it emptied my wallet. But when it ran I loved it. I sold her and got money down on the TRX, and hopefully I get her next week. I thought about buying the YFZ, but the Raptor left a bad taste in my mouth. I honestly think the YFZ is a killer quad, I rode one and I was very impressed! If I had bought the YFZ I really think I would be happy. But I think I will be just as impressed when I get my 450R. As long as I am happy, that is all that matters.
So to all you YFZ owners and all us New or Soon to be 450R owners, contgrats to all of us on having kickass quads. I'll see ya at the tracks and trails this spring!

HIT THE GAS AND GRIN!:devil:

[Quadfather]

I got the new Dirwheels with the shootout today.


It said the Yamaha is race ready off the showroom floor, the Honda is far from it.

Both quads were dead even in a drag race, time after time.


Yamaha with fluids-378 lbs. Honda-376

Honda ergos-second to none, as are the breaks

Honda-front end way to light for MX

"As a pure racer, the Honda comes up short" they say. "it wheelies out of corners, and tips entering them. The center of gravity is on the high side."

"Also, at high speeds, the TRX feels unstable.While the engine power is strong and smooth, it doesn't have that mid-range punch that is so important."

"The Yamaha YFZ450 is at the top of the high performance class"



Conclusion-they say


For reliability and quality, the Honda has it and will build even more brand loyalty. It has outdone the 400EX by leaps and bounds and is a blast to ride. It is such a good trail machine, we feel the added weight of a battery and electric starter would make it even better.
To win a shootout of this caliber, the machine has to be competetive oriented with the track in mind. As it turns out, the Yamaha is better than that. In stock trim, the Yamaha can't be beat. Plus, in the dunes, it's a rocket, the fastest quad up the hill. It's fast in the desert, rips on the trails, soaks up the sand, smokes the competition, and even looks fast standing still.Thats why the Yamaha wins our high performance shootout.

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

Originally posted by Quadfather
I got the new Dirwheels with the shootout today.


It said the Yamaha is race ready off the showroom floor, the Honda is far from it.

Both quads were dead even in a drag race, time after time.


Yamaha with fluids-378 lbs. Honda-376

Honda ergos-second to none, as are the breaks

Honda-front end way to light for MX

"As a pure racer, the Honda comes up short" they say. "it wheelies out of corners, and tips entering them. The center of gravity is on the high side."

"Also, at high speeds, the TRX feels unstable.While the engine power is strong and smooth, it doesn't have that mid-range punch that is so important."

"The Yamaha YFZ450 is at the top of the high performance class"



Conclusion-they say


For reliability and quality, the Honda has it and will build even more brand loyalty. It has outdone the 400EX by leaps and bounds and is a blast to ride. It is such a good trail machine, we feel the added weight of a battery and electric starter would make it even better.
To win a shootout of this caliber, the machine has to be competetive oriented with the track in mind. As it turns out, the Yamaha is better than that. In stock trim, the Yamaha can't be beat. Plus, in the dunes, it's a rocket, the fastest quad up the hill. It's fast in the desert, rips on the trails, soaks up the sand, smokes the competition, and even looks fast standing still.Thats why the Yamaha wins our high performance shootout.


good to hear...........for yammy owners:p

[twisted threads]

If you ask me that shoot out sounds about what I thought It would say. After going and sitting on the new 450r today I could tell it was going to be more of a all around bike not just a "race" bike because it is taller than the YFZ. So my hat goes of to the YFZ on being a better racer FOR now.;) I think its cool seeing the sport come this far over the last four years and I cant wate to get my hands on one of them new 450r's they are awsome.:cool:

[linkcmd88]

like i said yfz racing trx all around both great quads if my mom and dad sold my yfz and got a 450r i think i will still be happy but if they did that i would have to kill them lol :devil:

[jb500ex]

i'll be pissed if this quad is not up too my expectations when i could have bought yamijunk months ago

[JWhite]

Most racers do arms, shocks, and all the other good stuff anyways. The Honda would be equal then anyways.

What I'm really interested in is the bottom to mid on the Honda. The Mid to Top motor on the YFZ has its place, but then so does a bottom to mid machine.

[MIA450R]

Hey....hats off to Yamaha. They built an awesome racing quad in stock form, and deserve the kudos for bringing the sport way up a level. We all know to take Dirtwheels words with a grain of salt, but there is no denying Yamaha deserves serious props taking a huge risk designing & releasing both the Raptor and now the YFZ450.

Honda built an amazing quad too, its just that Honda doesn't seem to know what to focus on with the 450R: trail / racing / mx / dunes / safety / performance. There seems to be a little of all of that in the R, but im certain once its modified and FOCUSED to do what you want (mx/racing included)....it will dominate. It just remains to be seen what it will cost to get it where you want it.

IMO, the 400EX cost way too much to get it where we all wanted it.

And for those of you who dont want opinions....:blah:

[anthony7]

Originally posted by quadrcr161
i can see the yamaha winning, the 450r isnt out yet and there has already been a lot done for the yfz. its a great bike but i think its just going to be which brand you chose to buy. plus we all know how truthfull the mags really are. they could not do a yfz vs trx compairson if the trx was not out. what do you mean there has been a lot done for the yfz. dont you think they compaired the two quads stock for stock?? I dont know my self i have'nt seen the aritcle but that is how they compair all outher quads. reguardless i think they both will be a blast.

[jarsong]

Originally posted by jb500ex
i'll be pissed if this quad is not up too my expectations when i could have bought yamijunk months ago

Better be careful... Some of that Yamijunk as you put it might be teaching you a hard lesson pretty soon.... Crow taste like crap....
jarsong

[FASTeR]

interesting points made so far but none really truthful, if you read february's shootout, they seemed as usual Honda biased.. now they seem to favor the yamaha. Saying there are more parts for the yfz is a little odd, as I see parts at the local shops for the 450r and its not even on the showroom yet, and the pictures that were posted 3 days before the 450r's unveiling was fully decked out sitting at AC racing (i believe) complete with elkas, facts are facts on the same dyno it dosent matter what the numbers are, the smaller displacment 450 makes more power, and has a better midrange hit for mx racing. The 450r has a kick, about the last thing I want when Lining up against a slew of electric start quads, or after stalling in a stream behind a stuck quad. Or during a muddy race. My old R's kicker came back and got my leg more than once.. I'll pass. too each his own, now we all have a quad to choose from in the popular class, thats up to date, not a outdated aircooled engine shoved in a updated 16 yr old chassis.

[Baley69]

IMO they will be just as good as the other. It will simply come down to preference in color/style. I personally sat on both and picked the yfz only because it was I felt the R didnt satisfy what I wanted my 6500$ bike to be. I didnt want to buy a quad that I wished looked like another, and thats why I waited for the R to come out so I could personally see what it looked like. I still love honda, and I will own another 400ex again.

Btw, I got a red/white yfz on friday morning for 6499 and shes pretty :D

[Honda]

I think it is kindo of funny how after Dirtwheels tested the TRX, they all but stopped short of saying that it was hands down a better Quad than the YFZ. Now your trying to tell me that they said the YFZ is much better? I don't buy it! Sounds like either someone made the whole thing up or Yamaha dug DEEP into their pockets to pay some Folks to change their mind.

Funny how someone said that the TRX's front end was way to light for MX, yet Dirtwheels initial test said that it Had great mid air handling, was easy to correct in flight and had a perfect slightly nose high attitude. Also said it handled much like a 250R.

OHH YAA! They also stated in several places that it was easier to ride than the YFZ.

I could go on, but it doesn't really matter. Honda is going to Have a MUCH larger aftermarket following, will sell more units, and in my opinion will be a much better buy (performance, handling, reliability) than the Yami.

I have been reading dirtwheels for 15+ years. I remember back in the day when a quad sucked they didn't beat around the bush and talk about Brand Loyalty, they just told you it Sucked! They also used to do better comparison test's and had much more product evaluations.

See you on the Track!

[MIA450R]

Well said Honda,

I havent received the DW March issue yet, but based on the quotes listed in this thread, it already sounds like comments DW made in this months shootout directly contradicts things that they said in last months initial ride review of the 450R.

This either means they have a really bad editorial staff with an extremely short term memory, or they printed what Honda wanted them to say in the initial ride review, and now we're reading something different in the shootout...

Who knows. We're probably just going to have to figure this out on our own with our own tests.

[trx11t]

Here is the way I look at it. First ride reviews are worthless. Basically the Mags want to make the Factories happy, since there is nothing to compare to it is easy for them. Plus you have to consider they must have ridden these things month's ago in order to get them in the issue two month's before they are available. That means they were probably one off hand built units Honda flew in from Japan and "Tweeked" to be the best possible. If you saw that CNC machined skid plate for the Baja you would know they would go to any lengths to get good publicity. I highly doubt these were production machines you or I get to buy.
So now they ride a production machine and shoot it out with the YFZ. I am sure they were "touched" as well but there is only so much they can do. So now they are side by side and running real world bikes. I could see a huge difference in power and handling if this is the case. Which would allow the test riders to really get a feel for the power and handling advantage of each bike.
I think it is pretty clear. If you want a decent trail bike without electric start get the TRX. If you want a Race bike get the YFZ.
To each his own.

[Honda]

That's Right!

To each his own!

I choose to own a Honda!

[HotRod2Fitty]

I dunno about you guys but I dont even believe the mags anymore. If i am spending 7000 dollars of my hard earned cash, then sure as **** im not gonna believe what a magazine says. I think the only way to compare them is to ride both and thats what i intend to do before i fork over that much money!

[shee dawg]

Originally posted by Honda
That's Right!

To each his own!

I choose to own a Honda!

I would hope so because you would have to change that name of yours

[rideREDrider]

i dont know how close dirtwheels is to the actual thing or how far they are from it but this will be an ongoing arguement for years to come so i think we should all just wait and do our own tests and really decide which one is better.

im gonna trust to belive that ATVsport will be a little closer to whats real.

i read in the last ATVsport that the TRX has more yes more power in stock form but when u put the honda exhaust on as compared to the yami exhaust the yami has a little more

and like one other guys said they did say that the TRX was easier to ride than the YFZ

i think that our own tests will be much much closer than what any mag says tho so il just have to wait and find out

[anthony7]

the YFZ.

I could go on, but it doesn't really matter. Honda is going to Have a MUCH larger aftermarket following, will sell more units, and in my opinion will be a much better buy (performance, handling, reliability) than the Yami.

I have been reading dirtwheels for 15+ years. I remember back in the day when a quad sucked they didn't beat around the bush and talk about Brand Loyalty, they just told you it Sucked! They also used to do better comparison test's and had much more product evaluations.

See you on the Track! [/B][/QUOTE] sounds like you need to get a job at dirt wheels and "strighten them out".

[Scottie Mac]

Originally posted by Honda
[
I could go on, but it doesn't really matter. Honda is going to Have a MUCH larger aftermarket following, will sell more units, and in my opinion will be a much better buy (performance, handling, reliability) than the Yami.

I have been reading dirtwheels for 15+ years. I remember back in the day when a quad sucked they didn't beat around the bush and talk about Brand Loyalty, they just told you it Sucked! They also used to do better comparison test's and had much more product evaluations.

See you on the Track! [/B]

Honda (can't be biased with a name like that)

Please explain to me a few things.

1) Name one single company that will make parts for the TRX that doesn't already make parts for the YFZ. Seeing that the YFZ seems to be more race oriented, it would be logical to see more making parts for the YFZ.

2)Sell more units? A LOT of people got tired of waiting for the Honda and bought the YFZ. Add on the kicker only, and I don't see it. Never underestimate the laziness of your fellow man.

3) Reliability. Kinda hard to talk about the reliability of a machine that just came out. I can say this, I HOPE it is more reliable than the CRF motor, seen quite a few go down. YES, the 400ex was reliable, it should have been, it doesn't have any power. To get the type of performance these new generation 4 strokes make, you have to push the envelope a little. The YFZ motor has been around for years, pretty much without problems. No machine/motor is bulletproof.

4) Much better overall? Again, please explain. The YFZ (stock for stock) has more travel, lower ride height, same power and weighs the same even though it has the heavy battery and starter components. Just about every person who has had a chance to ride these machines have agreed that "opened up" the Yamaha has more power. Go read John Arens' report, you know, someone who actually has ridden both and has a "little" experiance in the feild.

Basically, my point is, if you are going to give an opinion, back it up with some fact. I truly believe that seeing how so few people ever leave their machines stock, when it is all said and done, both machines will ROCK. The person who has the best set up and most skill at doing so will probably have a great machine.

Biased quotes are a waist of bandwidth.

Scott

PS

Anyone who wants to reply to this, lets try to keep it mature. Not a flame war.

[lukester720]

Everyone says the yammi has more power on modified form (gyt-r kit) than the R does with the hrc kit which is fine and dandy but what does anyone expect? How can you compare a full exhaust system (gyt-r) to an endcap (hrc). Does anyone on this site know how a hrc equipt 450r with a full exhaust system would compare to the gyt-r yfz powerwise. I have no idea but if you do then dazzle me with your hot new information! Thanks.

[anthony7]

Originally posted by lukester720
Everyone says the yammi has more power on modified form (gyt-r kit) than the R does with the hrc kit which is fine and dandy but what does anyone expect? How can you compare a full exhaust system (gyt-r) to an endcap (hrc). Does anyone on this site know how a hrc equipt 450r with a full exhaust system would compare to the gyt-r yfz powerwise. I have no idea but if you do then dazzle me with your hot new information! Thanks. for me i would ezpect a true 450 to beat a 439 in the h power game but the numbers suggest outherwise.

[Quadfather]

Here's what ATV Action said about the HRC kit:

In drag races, The HRC 450R did not demonstrate a clear advantage over the stocker. On the rest of the track, and on our trail rides, we noticed the increase in sound output more than an added production of horsepower or torque.

[shee dawg]

Originally posted by Quadfather
Here's what ATV Action said about the HRC kit:

In drag races, The HRC 450R did not demonstrate a clear advantage over the stocker. On the rest of the track, and on our trail rides, we noticed the increase in sound output more than an added production of horsepower or torque.



*OUCH*

[MIA450R]

But then ATV Sport, in their initial test of 450R, said they expect an HRC equipped 450R to realize full potential with a full exhaust system (and proper jetting to match).

Not a direct quote, but they say something to that effect...

[Scottie Mac]

You can expect a little power increase by adding a full system to the TRX. But, some systems work more for the bottom, some more for the mid-top. A YFZ with the pipe decorked and center wal drilled out is almost identical to the power of a full piped one. I know when I tried to mod the stock pipe I was shocked how close in power it was to my aftermarket 450 buck system.

Relax guys, both of these machines are going to be sooooo close in terms of power. Just like the bikes. The TRX is going to be more user friendly, the YFZ is going to be more eye opening. It will ultimately come down to rider and how each machine is set up.

Scott

[lukester720]

Originally posted by MIA450R
But then ATV Sport, in their initial test of 450R, said they expect an HRC equipped 450R to realize full potential with a full exhaust system (and proper jetting to match).

Not a direct quote, but they say something to that effect...

That's exactly what I'm saying mia450r. I don't think people are realizing that a full exhaust system is going to make quite a difference over and endcap. I thing an hrc equipt R with a full exhaust will put it right up their with the gyt-r yfz IMO.

[Honda]

Scottie Mac


Honda (can't be biased with a name like that)

Not Biased! Just that I am a Honda Diehard, and only because I have tried the others and learned the hard way what Brand is better.


1) Name one single company that will make parts for the TRX that doesn't already make parts for the YFZ. Seeing that the YFZ seems to be more race oriented, it would be logical to see more making parts for the YFZ.

It is only Fact that Honda has a larger aftermarket following. This applies not only to their Bikes, Quads but also Automobile segment. The Legendary 250R is one example the honda Civic is another. Look at the Number of parts available for those machines.


2)Sell more units? A LOT of people got tired of waiting for the Honda and bought the YFZ. Add on the kicker only, and I don't see it. Never underestimate the laziness of your fellow man.

They will sell more units. I never heard about a waiting list for the YFZ. The people that got tired of waiting will eventually switch to the Honda. I don't think the lack of a kickstarter is such a big deal. People have just grown Lazy because the manufactures have made electric start so readily available by placing them on their machines.


3) Reliability. Kinda hard to talk about the reliability of a machine that just came out. I can say this, I HOPE it is more reliable than the CRF motor, seen quite a few go down. YES, the 400ex was reliable, it should have been, it doesn't have any power. To get the type of performance these new generation 4 strokes make, you have to push the envelope a little. The YFZ motor has been around for years, pretty much without problems. No machine/motor is bulletproof.

Honda's Generally are more reliable than other manufactures products. Honda also uses better Grade hardware and has more thought out designs.


4) Much better overall? Again, please explain. The YFZ (stock for stock) has more travel, lower ride height, same power and weighs the same even though it has the heavy battery and starter components. Just about every person who has had a chance to ride these machines have agreed that "opened up" the Yamaha has more power. Go read John Arens' report, you know, someone who actually has ridden both and has a "little" experiance in the feild.

I have not read John Arens' report. Much Better overall. Meaning Performance, Reliability, Aftermarket support, build quality, etc.


Basically, my point is, if you are going to give an opinion, back it up with some fact. I truly believe that seeing how so few people ever leave their machines stock, when it is all said and done, both machines will ROCK. The person who has the best set up and most skill at doing so will probably have a great machine.

I am just basing my opinion from my experience with products produced by not only Honda, but Yamaha and other manufactures. Not only am I basing this opinion off of products produced for offroad use but on road as well.

I agree, Most are not going to leave the machines stock, and correct both machines will be very competitive. Except the Red Riders will be better riders overall. Just kiddin about that one. LOL!


Biased quotes are a waist of bandwidth.

Welcome to America Scott! Freedom of choice and the Freedom to have an opinion. Just stated my opinion.

Scott,
The bottom line is, I am just stating my opinion on the subject. Everyone here will have an opinion. I just happen to be a Die Hard Honda fan because of problems I have had in the Past with other Manufactures Products. I am not trying to knock anyone or say that Yamaha sucks, because in reality I don't think they do. In my opinion I just feel Honda is a better choice for me.

Scott? Shouldn't you be on the YFZRIDERS.com forum? LOL!

[trx11t]

I already posted this earlier but since people are still asking the same questions.
TRX with Pipe 40 HP
YFZ STock - 39.3 HP with Pipe -44.6 HP

Here are a few quote's:

"TRX450R" -
"The center of gravity is on the high side. Also at high speeds the TRX feels a bit unstable"

"It doesn't have the mid range punch that is so important"

"We never thought Honda would take styling tips from Polaris but unfortunately they did."

STock HP 37 White Bros Modified 40 HP

Wet Weight 376 lbs

YFZ450 -

"The Majority of our testers agree the Yamaha YFZ450 is at the top of the high performance class"

"It was a consistant winner on flat ground, up hills, and around corners"

"In the dunes, it's a rocket, the fastest quad up the hill"

Wet Weight 378 lbs

39.3 hp stock - 44.6 hp w/ gytr pipe

[lukester720]

Trx11t are those numbers with the hrc kit and full exhaust or just a stock R with a full exhaust. Because I'm not all that interested in the stock # because mine will have the hrc kit. So I'm not really sure your response anwsered my question either time that's why I'm checking back with you? Thanks.

[MIA450R]

Originally posted by lukester720
That's exactly what I'm saying mia450r. I don't think people are realizing that a full exhaust system is going to make quite a difference over and endcap. I thing an hrc equipt R with a full exhaust will put it right up their with the gyt-r yfz IMO.

I *almost* completely agree lukester...

But, the HRC kit's cam supposedly is not as hot as the CRF450R's cam. While the YFZ's cams are the same as the YZF's...just the exhaust is retarded 1 tooth.

That being the case, I believe the CRF450R's cam, or a very similar grind, may be required (with the other HRC kit parts, and a complete exhaust system) to net almost the same power levels as the YFZ with GYT-R parts.

My .02

[lukester720]

Mia I asked my dealer about the hrc cam and the crf450 cam and he said the hrc cam was about a degree larger after looking into it. I don't know what would happen if you put the hrc cam in the dirtbike but it seems like it would make it run better. Just my opionon I am not an engine expert and I'm also not being a smart ***** if anyone thinks I'm trying to be.

[trx11t]

Everyone wanted to see Full exhaust Vs. full exhaust. And not YFZ with a full exhaust and the TRX with the HRC kit.

So the numbers are as follows:

TRX with White Bro's Exhaust = 40HP
YFZ with GYT-R Exhaust = 44.6 HP

Stock YFZ looks to be almost as much as the TRX with the White Bro's exhaust.

These are from the Dirt Wheels Shootout.

[Scottie Mac]

Originally posted by Honda




Not Biased! Just that I am a Honda Diehard, and only because I have tried the others and learned the hard way what Brand is better.

__________________________________________________

Ahhhh..... that is a biased opinion, sorry guy. I had a 250r frame dissintegrate (sp?) and I really wasn't that hard on it. But, even so, I don't think ill of Honda for it or that another manufacturer makes better products because of it.



It is only Fact that Honda has a larger aftermarket following. This applies not only to their Bikes, Quads but also Automobile segment. The Legendary 250R is one example the honda Civic is another. Look at the Number of parts available for those machines.

__________________________________________________ _

Lets stick to ATVs here, I think this is an ATV forum. AGain, if so, please prove it. As I said before, any company that makes products for one, will undoubtably make products for the other. Truth be known, you would think more aftermarket companies would make parts for the YFZ seeing that it is geared more towards the MX track instead of the trail riding scene.


They will sell more units. I never heard about a waiting list for the YFZ. The people that got tired of waiting will eventually switch to the Honda. I don't think the lack of a kickstarter is such a big deal. People have just grown Lazy because the manufactures have made electric start so readily available by placing them on their machines.

__________________________________________________

No waiting list on Yamahas....Possibly because Yamaha had their units at the dealers two weeks, not two months after the information was givin to the public. Face it, there are a lot of people who would buy a brown bag of sh1t if it had a Honda name on it. I still believe the non elec start will be the Honda's main retail problem.


Honda's Generally are more reliable than other manufactures products. Honda also uses better Grade hardware and has more thought out designs.

__________________________________________________ _

MANY people have said that the new YFZ designed frame is the best geometry they have ever ridden. The TRX is a frame based loosly off of the 250R / 400ex. They state in their adds that the TRX is a race oriented machine, but has a high center of gravity (can you say Raptor?) less suspension travel and weighs the same as its competator who has all the elec start goodies. In my book, sounds like they didn't think out the design all that well, if fact it sounds like they.... ahhh.... rushed it out maybe?





I have not read John Arens' report. Much Better overall. Meaning Performance, Reliability, Aftermarket support, build quality, etc.

__________________________________________________

Read it, it is an intersting, informative thread.



I am just basing my opinion from my experience with products produced by not only Honda, but Yamaha and other manufactures. Not only am I basing this opinion off of products produced for offroad use but on road as well.

I agree, Most are not going to leave the machines stock, and correct both machines will be very competitive. Except the Red Riders will be better riders overall. Just kiddin about that one. LOL!

__________________________________________________ __

LOL, that is a possibility.



Welcome to America Scott! Freedom of choice and the Freedom to have an opinion. Just stated my opinion.

Scott,
The bottom line is, I am just stating my opinion on the subject. Everyone here will have an opinion. I just happen to be a Die Hard Honda fan because of problems I have had in the Past with other Manufactures Products. I am not trying to knock anyone or say that Yamaha sucks, because in reality I don't think they do. In my opinion I just feel Honda is a better choice for me.

Scott? Shouldn't you be on the YFZRIDERS.com forum? LOL! [/B]

I also have had two 250rs, a full mx 265r (Joe Byrd's old quad) and a yz426 LSR Hybrid. I din't realize you had to be a TRX rider to give an opinion in America, as you put it. By the way, do you actually own a TRX450R?


I LOVE IT! An intelectual, adult conversation. Man, a lot of the people on this forum should take notes. I turn the table over to you Honda.

Scott

[trx11t]

So after thinking about this some more, here is what I have concluded.

TRX450R

Stock HP = 37
W.B. Exhaust =40
+HRC Kit = 43 HP (Guessing based on YFZ Cam Mod)

YFZ450

Stock HP = 39.3
GYTR Exhaust = 44.6
+ Cam Mod = 47.6

So to me it looks like the TRX is always going to be at around a 5 HP disadvantage dollar for dollar since the HRC kit is an extra $300.

Now if you Switch the TRX to a FCR Carb and put in a Forged high compression piston and increased the rev limiter a 1000 RPM so it was the same as the YFZ then you maybe able to get to the YFZ level but then you are talking at least another $1,000 to $1,500.

[MIA450R]

Originally posted by lukester720
Mia I asked my dealer about the hrc cam and the crf450 cam and he said the hrc cam was about a degree larger after looking into it. I don't know what would happen if you put the hrc cam in the dirtbike but it seems like it would make it run better. Just my opionon I am not an engine expert and I'm also not being a smart ***** if anyone thinks I'm trying to be.

Hey, if u talked to your dealer about it, you know more than me...

Someone on here was going to get a mic on the stock and HRC cam....if we can get these #'s and find the CRF cam #s online, we can put this to rest...

trx11t-
Good ballpark numbers, and whether they are accurate or not, I think the YFZ engine (dollar for dollar on mods) will be slightly more powerful.

[lukester720]

Originally posted by MIA450R
Hey, if u talked to your dealer about it, you know more than me...

Someone on here was going to get a mic on the stock and HRC cam....if we can get these #'s and find the CRF cam #s online, we can put this to rest...

trx11t-
Good ballpark numbers, and I whether they are accurate or not, I think the YFZ engine (dollar for dollar on mods) will be slightly more powerful.

all the numbers about the cam are in the hrc kit manual. It has stock specs and hrc specs, pretty informative has info like stock main jet 118 hrc main jet 185, shows the stock powercurve and hrc powercurve but didn't give numbers for it.

[MIA450R]

good stuff...
Now we just need quadrcr161 to mic the CRF450R cam to compare the diff between that and the TRX HRC cam.

[lukester720]

Yes we do. I thought about getting the crf450 cam but my dealer said the hrc cam is about a degree bigger but who knows. Hopefully someone can look it up and post their findings.

[shee dawg]

Opinions, opinions Everyone has his/her own opinions its what makes America work. Everyone has them but to try to get a non- biast one is the key. The best opinion is your own. Since like 3 people have the 450r on all the sites online, I dont think we will be seeing an honest opinion till quite sometime. I did notice that all of them loved the taillight though:p (I may believe Pappy if he tests one) :macho

Hey if all the mags out there put the Honda second overall against the YFZ do you think it will matter anyway. NOT

If the honda starts blowing motors or shocks or whatever in the field then do you think its so? NOT
No matter what, the 450r is the replacement for the 250r. That in its self is worth the downpayment.

So all of these freaking threads are completely usless in my opinion :devil:



HONDA - (and others) You seem to have alot of biast opinions so Ill be passing over your posts till I see you sitting on yours, and as I can see you haven't rode either. To be honest I wouldnt be surprized if you are 14 and own a 300ex. Go ahead base your next 6G+ purchase on your opinions. LOL

Oh when I get to beat on my friends 450r and compare the two I will not be posting any of my comments on forums because like any other comparisons they end up a bashing thread no matter what you type.

Can we see the BIG PICTURE YET?

Everyone is looking for something different from thier machine. Some want the seat of the pants feel, others want a ride in the park.

Wait till you plop your w00ter on one for yourself.
JUDGE IT FOR YOURSELF See you in a couple months on the track



:devil:

[Sandgod4]

Wow what a test. A blowout in my mind. YFZ for me, but I am happy w/ my unique ride, so I could careless..

[Honda]

Scott,

Had fun with that one, in the meantime lets just all get our damn Quads. I am gettin old waiting, I mean older.

No hard feelings I hope?

Shee dawg:

HONDA - (and others) You seem to have alot of biast opinions so Ill be passing over your posts till I see you sitting on yours, and as I can see you haven't rode either. To be honest I wouldnt be surprized if you are 14 and own a 300ex. Go ahead base your next 6G+ purchase on your opinions. LOL

Actually, I am 29 years old. Married with no kids......yet.
Been riding since I was about 5. Rode Bikes and Quads off and on for 24 years. Damn, I am old! :(

See ya all at the track, Lets have fun and Be thankfull for all the positive things that are going on in our Sport at the moment.

And for GODS Sake, and the Future of our sport, be responsible and Wear your Damn Helmets!

[shee dawg]

Shee dawg:


Actually, I am 29 years old. Married with no kids......yet.
Been riding since I was about 5. Rode Bikes and Quads off and on for 24 years. Damn, I am old! :(

See ya all at the track, Lets have fun and Be thankfull for all the positive things that are going on in our Sport at the moment.

And for GODS Sake, and the Future of our sport, be responsible and Wear your Damn Helmets! [/B][/QUOTE]



Amen Let us give thanks :cool:

[Woody_YFZ]

Not that this really matters, but just FYI for the guy who said Yamaha didn't have a waiting list, you must not have looked to hard for one. I was fifth on my waiting list and that was the best I could find at any of the three Yamaha dealers around me, everyone else had a longer list. I had to wait about 3 weeks to get mine.

[r450rr]

so far i have been waiting about 6 months... not that it matters.. lol but it does i am about to have an anxiety attack ,, if i dont get that red fourwheeler soon...i meann really they need to hurry up an get them distributed..

:macho :macho :macho :macho :macho :macho

[shee dawg]

Originally posted by Woody_YFZ
Not that this really matters, but just FYI for the guy who said Yamaha didn't have a waiting list, you must not have looked to hard for one. I was fifth on my waiting list and that was the best I could find at any of the three Yamaha dealers around me, everyone else had a longer list. I had to wait about 3 weeks to get mine.



Not to mention the YFZ's werent announced some 6 or so months before showing up on showroom floors. I tell ya it took 3 weeks of running around to inspect it. It didnt stay long either the buyer was pulling up when I was on my way out.

[ThomsonRacing]

It is very nice actually seeing quite a few posts where everyone can be decent and mature...After reading everything, I have a few comments...

First, it is hard to say which brand will have more aftermarket backing...Honda mentioned the 250R...and it should have a lot of parts because it is so old...Scott however failed to counter with the Banshee...The Banshee is almost as old as the 250R and aftermarket parts are just as available...Now, I primarily race mx and the Banshee is no 250R on the track...However, I raced a Banshee for 3 years (15-20 races per season, practice not included)...never put a clutch in and never rebuilt the motor...it was due for a top end rebuild when I sold it (Yes, I told the buyer it should be rebuilt)...I also never had any transmission problems, however shifting on a Yamaha is a lot notchier than a 400ex.

The honest truth about aftermarket parts is now that the factories are stepping in with racing and all...the aftermarket parts production will start declining...No, we won't see it much this year, and maybe not next year...but if the factories stick with it these ATV's could quite possibly come in different versions (i.e. an mx and a trail version).

Last winter I built a 440ex...I loved it and had a great season this past year...the YFZ came out so fast, I didn't even know about it until it was already on the dealers showroom floor...to my knowledge no magazines had led on to it like they have with other machines such as the Z-400, Predator and Raptor.

Boy, this is getting long...now I was one of the people who had a deposit down on the first 450R (which still isn't in, but should be there tomorrow)...however, I had heard some things and had plenty of seat time on my buddies YFZ so I bought it in early November...Now that it is almost February I have the quad almost complete for this coming race season. I kept my 400ex too because it was just too much fun to only keep for a year. I will still ride it, practice on it and race it if an appropriate class is available.

And finally, when both quads are set up appropriately they are both going to kick *****. You could hope that stock to stock there might be a tie in overall performance, but part of me hopes this doesn't happen...why??? Personally I hope all of the stories about the March issue of DirtWheels are true...not because I own a YFZ and want to see the Honda fail...but rather, Honda is not going to sit back and be 2nd best...I would fully expect them to step it up and make a better release for 05...now, Yamaha will probably not make any changes for next year (the only thing I can see is increasing the displacement to 450cc)...Suzuki is supposedly releasing their Z450 this summer so all of this competition is great for each and every one of us because I feel now that we can always expect something a little better.

[jarsong]

Originally posted by Woody_YFZ
Not that this really matters, but just FYI for the guy who said Yamaha didn't have a waiting list, you must not have looked to hard for one. I was fifth on my waiting list and that was the best I could find at any of the three Yamaha dealers around me, everyone else had a longer list. I had to wait about 3 weeks to get mine.

Yep there was a huge waiting list. Matter of fact it was 6 months for me to be able to negotiate the proper price for one. In my area they were getting MSRP+ set up fees and were selling every one that came in. Even today the white/red are in short supply and they aren't dealing on as much. Coming from a 250R I can only say that the YFZ HAS replaced it as the king of quad's. As for the 450R?? I don't know yet and time will tell. It's trying to fill some aweful big shoes. THe YFZ to me feels so much like the 250R, with just more ballanced power.
jarsong

[jb500ex]

there were alot of dealers that didn't move the yfz's well. i looked into them and tried dealers everywhere for the best price and a few said they did not sell that many.

[FASTeR]

must be a northern thing, the dealer in ohio my yfz came from sold 7 in a month, thats pretty good product movement, saying the yfz isnt selling would be a bad statement to make.. and completely false. Just look at the number of pro racers on them vs. anything else that has came along the way. No 450r's in the gncc pro class this year.