Put A 400ex Front End On My 300ex Today...

[jfboy]

I just put a 400ex fron end on my 300ex today. wow what a diffrerence. my quad now feels just like a 400ex but slower. it handles great.. whoever said it would make the front end twitchy must have done something wrong.. I used: 400EX A-ARMS, COMPLETE SPINDLE/HUB/ROTOR/CALIPER ***, TIE RODS. Installation was a easy.. and since I was using the 400ex spindle I did not even need to realing it STRAIGHT BOLT ON MOD. I got pics before.. with one side done and all done but I dunno how to post them... If somebody could post them for me.. let me know and I will email them to you.

[mustang93]

post them here and like it to the site.
http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/

[cdalejef]

So how did you address the bad tierod angle issue?

[dirtmomma]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
So how did you address the bad tierod angle issue?


:huh Hey Jeff you having a bad weekend?? Seems like your dissin' alot the last few days:confused: maybe it's me who knows! Whats the bad tierod angle issue??

[cdalejef]

I'm not dissing anyone, I just don't want people go get hurt by mixing up a-arms.
I've said it over and over again, we and others have tired this before and it is a very bad idea!
The steering stem to frame mount is too far apart between the bikes making for a bad tierod angle causing bump steer. This would be ok for TT or flat track but is dangerous for XC or MX.
This isn't a sales pitch or anything like that, It actually works very well using 400ex shocks with a custom mount and 300ex arms only!
I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

Jeff

[dirtmomma]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
I'm not dissing anyone, I just don't want people go get hurt by mixing up a-arms.
I've said it over and over again, we and others have tired this before and it is a very bad idea!
The steering stem to frame mount is too far apart between the bikes making for a bad tierod angle causing bump steer. This would be ok for TT or flat track but is dangerous for XC or MX.
This isn't a sales pitch or anything like that, It actually works very well using 400ex shocks with a custom mount and 300ex arms only!
I'm sorry if I offended anyone.

Jeff

Ok sorry, so are you saying that when I start rough scrambles/mx I would be better off putting 400 shocks on w/ the upper mount?? I have +3 modified arms on my 300. I run my stock shocks for flattrack I have 2 shock mounting brackets also so I can move my shocks out 2"farther(I thnkit's 2") just curious, I don't get serious air but would like to go a little bigger w/o worrying about blowing them out. I ran the stockers last year a couple times & had NO problems but did but some 400 ones that I was gonna try, OH I know why I haven't yet, cuz they seem to set the front end WAY up in the air maybe it's cuz I didn't hav ethe upper mount well none of this probably makes sense to ya who knows LOL sorry if I sounded ******y earlier :rolleyes:

[cdalejef]

As long as you use arms that are designed for the 300, you will be fine.
Like I said in another post, we use LSR or Burguard 300ex arms with a custom upper mount and 400ex shocks, it makes the 300's handle like a dream! Even if you don't have the money to buy aftermarket arms, the stock 300ex arms, upper mount and 400ex shocks work great. It just when you go and put 400ex or 250R arms on the 300 is when things get scary!

[dirtmomma]

Hahahaa you'll probably die when I tell you that my arms are the stock 300 ones that have been made +3!!!! :eek: The guy that did them though KNOWS what he's doing, he measured it all up the right way ect. So I should be ok then huh. I think it's time to make up a mount & try this out, she's getting al; the flattrack stuff taken off now anyway & set back up :( Gettin it ready for some trail riding :blah: haven't done that in a LONG time LOL

[cdalejef]

You should be fine since the tie rod angles (front to rear) should be the same as they were stock.

[dirtmomma]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
You should be fine since the tie rod angles (front to rear) should be the same as they were stock.
Thanks Jeff ;)

[jfboy]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
So how did you address the bad tierod angle issue? The angle is the same as on a 400ex... I gues it because I'm using the 400ex spindles....

I will try to get the pix on the ASAP

[jfboy]

THATS ALL STOCKhttp://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/jfboy/300ex+stock.jpg.html

[jfboy]

I loaded the up on the website but I can seem to be able to postr them, on here..

maybe this will work:http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/jfboy/300ex+stock.jpg

[jfboy]

her it is with only one side done..


http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/jfboy/300ex+oneside.jpg

[jfboy]

UP close....

http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/jfboy/300ex+both+sides.jpg

[jfboy]

now with everything done... PLEASE NOTE THAT I HAVENT GOT MY 400EX SHOCK AND RELOCATION BRACKET YET... SO IT'S RIDING PRETTY LOW FOR NOW... INSTALLATION TOOK45MIN TO AND HOUR.. IT'S WORK IT THE QUAD IS MUCH MORE STABLE ESPECIALLY AT HIGHT SPEED.http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/jfboy/300ex+both+sides+done.jpg

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by jfboy
The angle is the same as on a 400ex... I gues it because I'm using the 400ex spindles....

I will try to get the pix on the ASAP the front to rear angle of the tie rods is off! It has nothing todo with the spindles. The difference is where the stem meets the frame.

[remlapr]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
As long as you use arms that are designed for the 300, you will be fine.
Like I said in another post, we use LSR or Burguard 300ex arms with a custom upper mount and 400ex shocks, it makes the 300's handle like a dream! Even if you don't have the money to buy aftermarket arms, the stock 300ex arms, upper mount and 400ex shocks work great. It just when you go and put 400ex or 250R arms on the 300 is when things get scary!


That's the first time I've actually seen the bracket, that's pretty trick. Seems like some +2 300ex a-arms with shocks built for a 400ex and the relocator bracket is what that other guy should have gone with - guess he just wouldn't listen :rolleyes:

[jfboy]

Originally posted by Jeff@QuadShop
the front to rear angle of the tie rods is off! It has nothing todo with the spindles. The difference is where the stem meets the frame.

THE REASON THE ANGLE WOULD BE OFF IS BECAU TON THE 300EX SPINDLES THE TIE ROD MOUNT IS LOWER THAN ON A 400EX ITS ABOUT 2-3 INCHES LOWER. IF YOU USE 400ES SPINDLES THEN ITS NOT A PROBLEM...

[cdalejef]

The problem is also where the stem meets the frame on each bike which can't be solved with spindles. We looked into this last spring and just couldn't find a way to make it work properly with out modifying the stem mount.

OK after very little thought the stem bushing in the bottom of the frame is located in a different spot compared to a 400ex frame..??? There for causing a ergonomics problem...:confused: Do I have any idea of wtf i'm talkin about:confused:

[cdalejef]

That would be correct.

OK here it is on paper, well kinda half arse drawing but you get the idea.

For proper front end setup the tiedrods need to run straight across to the spindle for no bumpsteer and correct handling.


The 300ex's stem bushing is farther forward in the frame, that is were you pick up the extra bumpsteer. The tie-rods angle back which makes for poop handling. I've never rode one but I'll take bradleys and Jeff's advice it doesn't look too good. Cheaper than buying a complete new front end if your on a budget but you might wanna get a stabilizer to help out the bumpsteer..:eek2:

[Tommy 17]

jeff ur totaly right on that... i was lookin at a 300ex today...


people just won't listen:o

[jfboy]

Originally posted by Rico
OK here it is on paper, well kinda half arse drawing but you get the idea.

For proper front end setup the tiedrods need to run straight across to the spindle for no bumpsteer and correct handling.


The 300ex's stem bushing is farther forward in the frame, that is were you pick up the extra bumpsteer. The tie-rods angle back which makes for poop handling. I've never rode one but I'll take bradleys and Jeff's advice it doesn't look too good. Cheaper than buying a complete new front end if your on a budget but you might wanna get a stabilizer to help out the bumpsteer..:eek2:

Well I just too a lokm at my 300ex and the rods are straight just like in the econd drawing.... I dont have any bumpsteer whatsoever(no that I can feel)...... I WILL BET YOU THAT ALL THGOSE GUYS COMPLAINING ABOUT BUMBSTEER ARE USING 300ex SPINDLES. Tbey are built way differebnt tahn a 400ex spindle....

[cdalejef]

We tried the 400ex spindles too.

[dirtmomma]

Originally posted by jfboy
THE REASON THE ANGLE WOULD BE OFF IS BECAU TON THE 300EX SPINDLES THE TIE ROD MOUNT IS LOWER THAN ON A 400EX ITS ABOUT 2-3 INCHES LOWER. IF YOU USE 400ES SPINDLES THEN ITS NOT A PROBLEM...


I think he's YELLING @ you Jeff LMAO!! J/P sorry I couldn't resist :p

[jfboy]

You guys are entitled to haver your own opinion about this mod.. nothing against that. I am more than happy with the way my quad handles for now(except for the shocks wich will be fixed in a week or so..) this mod cost me 180$ plus (I havent sold my 300ex spindles and arams yet so It will probably be 110-120$ all I can say is that it's really worth it for the money. I dont race my quad I just trail and play ride it... and I am really happy with the way it handles. so to the other 300exers.. dont be scared to do this it worked out really good for me.

[not2hi]

Well, unfortunately, most people on here don't have free race ready goodies thrown at us and unlimited budgets to play with...most here are looking for low buck mods to make things better than stock...believe me, if I had the bucks to throw a set of top notch triples under the dang thing, it'd be a done deal. In fact, i'll go so far as to say, if you do have the money, do it right and buy stuff made specifically for your bike. For the rest of us, for not a whole lot of coin, we do what we can to improve what we have.

99% of the 300ex owners that have posted here (and some other boards too) say it was well worth the time, money and effort to make the conversion to the 400ex front end.

We did the conversion on our 300ex (400ex arms, tie rods, shocks, upper shock mount relocator)...all-in-all, it was WELL worth time and effort to do. Bike rides and handles way better than stock. Travel is greatly improved. I see NO noticeable bump steer. I'd do it again in a heart beat. The price we paid for everything to do the conversion was less than a single new 300ex shock, so in our case, it was a no brainer.

Read thru the threads on here, and you get two opposite opinions on this...my 2 cents is this: if you are a racer and/or have the money to spend on aftermarket shocks, a-arms, etc...then go that way...if you are a casual rider, and don't want to drop 5 bills on it, then do the 400ex conversion.

[cdalejef]

If your refering to me, I don't have an unlimited budget and I run stock a-arms.
The problem is your not making things better, your making them worse. I'm using my knowledge of suspension geometry to let people know what works and what doesn't. Thats great if you think that it works for you but I will not sleep well at night if I don't tell people the truth about this mod.
Its just like flipping your front rims, you will get a few people that say it works great but in actuality it does not!
If you don't wanna take my advice, thats cool. But don't tell these people that may not no about how suspension works that it is better when it has been proven to make the quad handle worse.

[not2hi]

>The problem is your not making things better, your making them >worse.

You are entitled to your opinion, but i do not agree.

>Thats great if you think that it works for you

I don't THINK it works for me, I KNOW it made a huge improvement over the stock bike.

>If you don't wanna take my advice, thats cool. But don't tell >these people that may not no about how suspension works >that it is better when it has been proven to make the quad >handle worse.

proven? by whom?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by not2hi
Proven by whom?

im gonna take a geuss that dave mccarroll has tried this. he is what...3 time sport quad champ in the gncc's?

i think what alot of you are missing is the fact that WHEN you can ride at the level of A or even B class you will start learning what a properly set up quad feels like. I have had my front end set so that I thought it was perfect...only to have someone else prep it and it handled 100% better.

its hard for some riders to understand what works and what works extremely well.

[not2hi]

again, if you are racing, or require top level performance, do it the right way!!!

i have no question that you guys are extremely knowledgable about quads and performance issues related to them, moreso than i will ever be...your opinions are to be taken with great respect...

but for those of us who ride trails and backyards, this mod can make a world of difference in upgrading the overall performance of the bike for not a lot of money.

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by not2hi
again, if you are racing, or require top level performance, do it the right way!!!

i have no question that you guys are extremely knowledgable about quads and performance issues related to them, moreso than i will ever be...your opinions are to be taken with great respect...

but for those of us who ride trails and backyards, this mod can make a world of difference in upgrading the overall performance of the bike for not a lot of money.

I wasn't going to chime in espeically since I don't have a lot suspension experience. But I do have common sense.

You say you ride trails and backyards. Well if you continue to ride, your going to continue to be a better rider. Maybe not an A rider, but still improve. The system may work for you now because of your current skill level. But once you start getting better and start pushing your quad to it's fullest potential, this improvement may cause you a serious injury.

Just think you start going faster and faster through your backyard trail, and you start getting closer and closer to the trees. Well one time you go a little to fast and you just clip the tree. With a properly setup front end, you may be able to recover. But with your current setup the bars get ripped from your hand because of the increase bumpster and you crash hard.

JMO

Learn from the right professionals.

[MXQUAD294]

I've done the conversion on my 250X using a shock relocation kit, 400EX spindles and Houser LT 400EX a-arms for 16" shocks. The tie rods aren't exactly inline like Rico's second "illustration" but I had to really look at it hard and long to notice any angle. So the angle on my bike is very little. As for an excessive amount of bumpsteer... well the bumpsteer is actually the same, if not less, than I got with the stock 250X front end (which again is very little). The set up works great and I recommend it. However, I agree 100% with Jeff about flipping the front rims- thats just asking for trouble, especially if you ride hard. Just my opinion.

[not2hi]

the bumpsteer is actually quite a bit less than the stock set up...if you take a few minutes to align the thing and get it tweaked right...in our case, bumpsteer is not an issue...my 16 yo son rides it pretty hard, and he was VERY happy with it's increased suspension capabilities.

[bradley300]

well, i have tried this. went back to stock, dave maccarol and jeff and rick cecco have all three studied this set up, none went w/ it. these are atv proffesionals, a/pro class riders and class champs. like doibugu2 siad- learn from the right people

actually, that was the most intellegent post i have seen by doibugu!lol, even if you trail ride, dont you want to get better? this system will hold you back, i promise.

i understand that the correct set up is expensive, but just look on ebay, its cheaper than new there and it is done right the first time.

[countypark]

Can the problem be corrected by modifying the steering shaft mount?

I've been running this set-up for about 3 years, it feels pretty good but I agree with you guys about the bumpsteer. I've compensated by adding a stabilizer but it is still noticable. I never really looked at the tierod angle between the steering stem and the spindles but Rico's drawing makes alot of sense.

I picked up some 400ex spindles because I figured the problem was with the tirod location on the spindles. If this isn't the problem then I need to come up with a fix.

It sounds like the bend on the 400ex a-arms is more forward then the 300ex a-arms.

If I went with aftermarkets how wide should I go to stick with the stock length 400ex shocks.

[bradley300]

you are actually part correct- part of the problem is w/ the 300ex spindles, you did right by replacing them w/ 400ex one since you have the 400ex a-arms.

i havent looked, so i dont know if the steering stem mount could be modified.

also, we have always used aftermarket shocks made for this our set up, so i cant tell you the limitations of the stock 400ex shocks w/ aftermarket 300ex a-arms. +2 300ex a-arms and 4+1 wheels is about 46 inches wide. it is hard to say if stock 400ex shocks would work, b/c the +2 400ex arms and stock 400 arms are pretty close in width. most 300 a-arms are +1 foward aslo, so that is pretty close to 400ex. the main difference is the 300ex shock mounts are around 2 inches closer to the frame, wich will make the shocks stiffer

[countypark]

I use aftermarket shocks but they are stock length for a 250R.

I haven't installed the 400 spindles yet.

I just went to the garage and set up my front end with the 300ex stock parts on the left and the 400ex stock parts on the right except the spindles, they are both 300 spindles and I can't see the bad angle that rico and jeff are talking about.


pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/countypark/IM002420.jpg.html (http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/countypark/IM002420.jpg.html)

[cdalejef]

Rico's pic is exagerated but it is there.

[countypark]

JEFF

Did you look at my picture. If there is an angle it is extremely small and I am having a hard time believing that this is a big factor in bump steer. The only problem that I have encountered with the tierods is that under an extreme bumping turn the tierod end can interfere with the lower a-arm and actually lock up. This can be eliminated with 400ex spindles since the tierod mount is located higher then the 300 spindles.

I have always been under the impression that bump steer was caused by camber or the angle of your tire throughout the suspension travel. As your shocks compress the a-arms move up and without proper camber adjustment the wheel can travel on an angle, minimizing the contact patch and increasing the bump steer. The goal is to minimize the angle with camber adjustment as well as ball joint pivot.

I am assuming that the aftermarket a-arms on Dave M's quad have adjustable ball joints and that you have installed them and adjusted them to minimize the angle throughout the travel and that is why you have been successful at minimizing the bump steer. As you know the stock 400ex a-arms can not be camber adjusted. My plan is to make the stock a-arms camber adjustable at a fraction of the cost of aftermarket a-arms. His a-arms are probably +1 forward which probably eliminates the angle of the tierods.

As far as the tierod angle goes, if the slight angle is a problem I am wondering if a 400ex stem could be used. I know the bearings are the same. If the stem can't be used them I can easily adapt a plate to the 300 stem that will allow me to position the tierods to eliminate the angle. Instead of going forward with the a-arms(which actually moves your spindles forward) I could move the tierods back on the steering stem.

I really appreciate all of the input that you are putting into this post. I respect the opinion of almost all pro racers. I have been racing my 300 with the 400ex front end for about three years and I really like it, but as I become a better racer I can notice the steering problem. The biggest problem that I see with bumpsteer is the effort required to steer at race speeds. I have been able to minimize the effort with tire pressure but I sacrifice traction. My goal this year is to get this front end set-up as well as possible at a minimum cost. I have the ability to fabricate or modify most of the components so I guess that helps me alot.

I am planning on making a run at Dave M this year, but I can only race 9 so I will have to finish well. I only ran T-town last year and came in 6th behind Dave's 5th. I did get the hole shot though but Jeremy Benson's 330 beat me through the first turn. I was running a stock 300 engine for that race cuz I blew up my 330 at the 2nd BUCCS race. T-town was all about speed and the bigger engines were smoking me in the fields.

[300exOH]

I did the conversion on mine about a year ago and all I can say is it isn't right. I do agree that in many ways it is better than stock but I can tell at high speed that something isn't right. I also have tried both spindles and the 400ex spindles were much better but I lost all of my turning radius. I find the quad turns much better in tight trails with the 300 spindles. I have decided to sell my custom Works and 250r a arms and switch to the setup that Dave Maccarol is running.

If only I would've listened to Jeff and a few others.:(

I'll let everyone know how much better the new setup is in about a month or so.:D :cool: :macho

[bradley300]

Originally posted by countypark
I am planning on making a run at Dave M this year, but I can only race 9 so I will have to finish well. I only ran T-town last year and came in 6th behind Dave's 5th. I did get the hole shot though but Jeremy Benson's 330 beat me through the first turn. I was running a stock 300 engine for that race cuz I blew up my 330 at the 2nd BUCCS race. T-town was all about speed and the bigger engines were smoking me in the fields.

see you there! find me on the line! i'm on the other 300ex (black and red) with quadshop graphics

[Doibugu2]

Originally posted by bradley300
actually, that was the most intellegent post i have seen by doibugu!lol, even if you trail ride, dont you want to get better? this system will hold you back, i promise.



Your going to get some help down the mountain next time at H/M.

Jack ***:eek:

[bradley300]

Originally posted by Doibugu2
Your going to get some help down the mountain next time at H/M.

Jack ***:eek:

:devil: lmao i'll be there in july, go check it out

[boogiechile]

I don't know about this swap but I do know something about frt end geometry. The pic that countypark put up has no significant difference in the angle of the tie rod on the side with the 400 arms vs the 300 side. Surely not enouh to make any difference and even if that angle changes a fair amount it would have almost no effect if the same stem and spindles are used. an angle change up and down would have more effect than one from frt to back.

Bump steer does not come from camber change through travel changing the contact patch. Several things cause bump steer but one that is in the suspension comes from the toe changing as the travel moves up and down. This is caused by the pivot point where the a arms attach to the frame being wider apart than the pivot points of the tie rods at the stem. There is also a little difference in pivot points at the spindle end. this difference makes the arms and tie rods have different radius arcs and therefore move left and right at different amounts as the travel moves cuasing the toe to change. Wider a arms will actually reduce this bump steer for any given amount of wheel travel. Even if the tie rods had a angle from frt to rear it would hardly effect this. other factors in bump steer are the offset of the wheel being wrong, toe not set right and etc.

One thing I noticed in the pic is that the 400 side may have more negative caster(not camber). this could be possible if either one but not both of the a arm mounts is further to the frt or back on the frame of the 300 compared to the 400. If this is so, negative caster causes bump steer and twitchy steering, especially at high speeds and the whoops would be bad too. Has anyone that has done this swap ever measured the caster once the 400 stuff is on? if it is more negative than stock this may be everyones problem. If it is more negative it could even make the tight trail riders quad better because the steering would be quicker, but the mx and faster, less tight trails riders would notice twitchy steering.

[countypark]

Thank you,

I've been waiting for someone to explain it like that. I was trying to figure it out but I've changed my direction to new 300ex a-arms. +2 with +1 forward and use the 4:1 rims.

[cdalejef]

Originally posted by countypark
Thank you,

I've been waiting for someone to explain it like that. I was trying to figure it out but I've changed my direction to new 300ex a-arms. +2 with +1 forward and use the 4:1 rims. Wise decision Countrypark.

[countypark]

Thanks alot for all of your input guys.

I'll see you at loretta's, gonna run the last 9 races in the SPORT class.

I'll post a pic of the quad when it is done.

Here it is today.

http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/countypark/IM002412.jpg

Tom

[trx300exrida]

so wait you have stock 300ex shocks connected to 400ex a arms?

[countypark]

If you are asking me that question.

I have 400ex shocks on aftermarket 300ex a-arms. Or at least I will. The right way to go.

[trx300exrida]

i read through this hole thing and all but what is trhe main problem with 400ex's shocks and a arms on the fornt of a 300ex. excuse me for being so dumb.....

[300exOH]

Originally posted by trx300exrida
i read through this hole thing and all but what is trhe main problem with 400ex's shocks and a arms on the fornt of a 300ex. excuse me for being so dumb.....

It just a bad setup in general. The main problem is the angle of the tie rods in relationship to the a arms. I know from experience that this setup just doesn't feel right.:( I am in the process of switching over to 400ex length Elka's and +2 300ex a arms. I found the 250r a arms with the custom Works to be better than stock but still not exactly smooth feeling. It always felt twitchy and it never quite steered right. Hope this helps.

Jeff? or anyone else know whether I should use +2's or +3's with stock rims and the Elka's and 300ex arms?

[punker69q]

I just did some (quick) math on this suspension setup (400ex a-arms on a 300ex) and it can be surprising how much a little angle difference in tie-rods can result in a very big difference in bump steer. A stock 300ex suspension probably have a max of 5 degrees or so of bumpsteer, and this setup probably add another 2-3 degrees, so the difference is pretty huge. Don't take this number a 100% accurate, I dont have my quad with me right now to take all the precise mesurements.

[redrunner]

Originally posted by 300exOH
It just a bad setup in general. The main problem is the angle of the tie rods in relationship to the a arms. I know from experience that this setup just doesn't feel right.:( I am in the process of switching over to 400ex length Elka's and +2 300ex a arms. I found the 250r a arms with the custom Works to be better than stock but still not exactly smooth feeling. It always felt twitchy and it never quite steered right. Hope this helps.

Jeff? or anyone else know whether I should use +2's or +3's with stock rims and the Elka's and 300ex arms?

300exoh, I just asked bradley300 about this since he runs this set up. +2+1 arms with 4+1 for trails is suppose to be the cats a**, but with the stockers will be fine. I plan on the 4+1 wheels and keep the stockers for spares and open tracks. Let me know if you find any extra deals on arms, I am looking too.;)

[300exOH]

Originally posted by redrunner
300exoh, I just asked bradley300 about this since he runs this set up. +2+1 arms with 4+1 for trails is suppose to be the cats a**, but with the stockers will be fine. I plan on the 4+1 wheels and keep the stockers for spares and open tracks. Let me know if you find any extra deals on arms, I am looking too.;)

Would the 4+1 wheels make it wider than with the stock wheels?

Also what rear axle width?

I'll be buying very soon:devil: so I'll do some shopping around. I'll most likely go with Quadshop or C&D:D

I already have my shock mount.

[redrunner]

From what I was told the 4+1 with +2 arms is 1 1/2" per side (3" total). I asked about the rear and with this set up stock should be good unless you feel the need. I was concerned about turning radius and that is not an issue. I've got razrs on the back and it seems like they will be about the same width as the new front end set up. I really just want this to be as good as possible on the trails. I was loooking for some used arms but they are hard to find and almost as much as new. Keep me posted on your build.

[300exOH]

I decided to go with all new since the used stuff won't be that much cheaper.

I'll post with pics as soon as she's done:devil:

Probably a month or 2:D

[stonerider250x]

i ordered works shocks about 2 weeks ago the are 14.75 inches long to fit the 250x wirth 400ex a-arms. and i bought 400ex a-arms.

so is the bumpsteer with the 400ex arms and correct length shocks really noticable? and if it is will i still be able to use the shocks if i buy aftermarket a-arms for the 300ex/250x instead of the 400ex a-arms or will they be too long:confused: :uhoh:

[countypark]

That set-up seems to be better then the standard length 400EX shocks but the best set-up for your shocks would be to buy aftermarket 300ex a-arms. The shock mount on the 300ex a-arms will be the same as stock so your new shocks will work well.

I had the 14.75 inch long shocks set up on mine with the 400ex a-arms and the front end did seem to handle better then when I had the 400ex shocks mounted. I had to mount the 400ex shocks using the shock mount relocator and the 14.75's mount in the stock upper position.

[jfboy]

I installed the shock relocator bracket and my 400ex shocks on the quad a few weeks ago and it handles great... Maybe the guyz that race MX dont like this setup but I love it... and it cost me about 200$ to this conversion... BEST MONEY EVER PUT IN A QUAD...

The quad feels almost indentical to a 400ex in the handling department. if you like the way a stock 400 handles THERE IS NO WAY YOU WILL REGRET THIS CONVERSION. ppl are intitled to their opinions and this is mine ;)

if somebody could post pics for me I would love it just pm me and I will email you a pic of the whole setup installed.

I would like to thank everybody that is on this forum for all the help and time that ppl have given me hope to see more informative discusions as we start modding the new 450r

[miken]

I almost hate to comment as this post was very opinionated, but I appreciated the discussion. Maybe a newbie opinion is warranted, or not. I believe you guys may be talking a bit above the average recreational ATV’er? I’m not even sure I know what bumpsteer is, but I assume when you hit a bump the steering wants to move. Isn’t that fairly obvious, it’s a mechanical linkage not isolated like power steering in a car. Isn’t that why we try to hit obstacles perpendicular to the line of travel? This is my first ATV, I have always ridden dirt bikes and steering a bike needs to be very precise with respect to obstacles or your on the ground pretty quick. I think there are inherent steering traits that need to learned rather than engineered away. That’s probably my opinion because I can’t afford the cool parts. I doubt I will ever ride hard enough or be good enough to fully appreciate the mod’s your all discussing. I think you were doing a good thing trying to help people make low cost improvements. Jeff at Quadshop also did right thing trying to alert people of a potential hazard. Definitely a case of agree to disagree, but what a great post.
Mike -

[300exOH]

Originally posted by miken
I almost hate to comment as this post was very opinionated, but I appreciated the discussion. Maybe a newbie opinion is warranted, or not. I believe you guys may be talking a bit above the average recreational ATV’er? I’m not even sure I know what bumpsteer is, but I assume when you hit a bump the steering wants to move. Isn’t that fairly obvious, it’s a mechanical linkage not isolated like power steering in a car. Isn’t that why we try to hit obstacles perpendicular to the line of travel? This is my first ATV, I have always ridden dirt bikes and steering a bike needs to be very precise with respect to obstacles or your on the ground pretty quick. I think there are inherent steering traits that need to learned rather than engineered away. That’s probably my opinion because I can’t afford the cool parts. I doubt I will ever ride hard enough or be good enough to fully appreciate the mod’s your all discussing. I think you were doing a good thing trying to help people make low cost improvements. Jeff at Quadshop also did right thing trying to alert people of a potential hazard. Definitely a case of agree to disagree, but what a great post.
Mike -

You're right about the bumpsteer. I think that if you ride even moderately well you will notice the problems with the conversion. I speak from experience. I'm not that great of a rider and I can feel the nervousness AND the bumpsteer. When you will notice it is when it doesn't do what you predicted it would at high speed. After a while the steering becomes a workout with the conversion also. It just seems to fight you all the time. That is why I'm switching to the aftermarket Burgards built for the 300ex. I highly advise everyone listen to the warnings from Jeff and others who have tried it. It is just not a good setup. I think if everyone rode both setups they would really feel the difference.

Good post miken

[not2hi]

here we go again...

[Meek]

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[Meek]

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[jfboy]

thanks meek !