LRD frame questions or why they give you an "attitude"

[Pappy]

this my first expierence with teh LRD attitude frame. id like some input from people that OWN one or actually know what the solutions are.

first and an important issue in my book is radiator clearence. i am unable to remove the radiator cap unless i remove the radiator mounts and tilt the radiator forward. i checked and the radiator is mounted correctly and is seated flush.

[Pappy]

this is as far as she goes.

[Pappy]

second issue may or may not be an LRD issue. the bolt that mounts the upper a arms to the frame are the correct size for the frame (diameter) but undersized for the sleeve in the a arm bushing. this is allowing movement when the arm is installed. i can easily tell that these are the incorrect mounting bolts because they arent fully shoulder'd and threads remain inside the sleeve. even if LRD supplied the correct length and shoulder'd bolt it wiould remain undersized for typical a arm bushings.

[Bad Habit]

Hey Pappy,

I'm pretty sure that oldsandman has the attitude frame on his R. Maybe he could shed some light?

One thought, is there and overflow jug for the coolant? If not, could you mount one from a Raptor or Z in a more convenient place and use it to fill/add? Just a quick idea.

[Pappy]

next item up is the seat posts. i suspect that if i went with OEM fenders and tank and even seat latch this could be no issue at all. the previous owner ran maier and had to notch the plastic cups that usually help hold the seat in place. i dont have an R frame here to measure for comparison but i have a feeling they maybe a tad to low especially if you run an aftermarket tank and seat latch. i checked the tank and its as far forward as the mounts will allow.

[Pappy]

the overflow bottle is not installed but i will be adding one. id rather have the proper clearances instead of making due. i spoke with john arens and he said that the oversized aluminum required for these frames has caused clearence issues so atleast im not the only one who has known problems.

[Pappy]

another problem i found with regards to clearence is that the tie rod end and nut will rub the frame if not perfectly aligned.

i am going to measure the stem mounting area (where the tie rod ends mount) to see if its caused by the stem or just another clearence related issue.

[Pappy]

.

[muff]

you think they would have noticed some of these short comings during design and testing

[Pappy]

Originally posted by muff
you think they would have noticed some of these short comings during design and testing

well im not trying to bash LRD one bit. this infact could be one of the very first ones produced but i cant confirm that. if others that bought one recently have these issues it could confirm some of these issues.

i can fix every problem i have. if the stem or tie rod ends are the issue they will be replaced.

if it requires oem fenders to fit perfectly then ill buy them....seat is gonna hurt because its notched and useless to me unless i run the set up i have.

the raditor can be modified or a different spout fabricted on a new aluminum unit.

i didnt want to have to fix a bunch of stuff on this quad but looks like im gonna have to dive in it and see whats what. im really interested in hearing from other owners to see what they ran into.

[muff]

true...its just sometimes when you spend X amount of money on any aftermarket product you expect to get the most you can out of it, especially when you spend that kind of money on a frame

$2600 can pay off quite a few hours of research work...

[Pappy]

Originally posted by muff

$2600 can pay off quite a few hours of research work...

amen:(

:mad: :mad:

[RiPPiNiTuP7]

wow, kinda surprising to see so many issues, even though their small ones that can be easily fixed for the most part. sometimes these problems occur when you mix one aftermarket with another, but manufacturers should realize we don't just buy one product and keep the rest stock...we modify the crap out of our quads so they should make sure the parts fit with stock and other companies parts, but i doubt that will ever happen. perhaps you could even contact lrd and bring to their attention the problems you are having and see what they say about them?

[Pappy]

well popo has the fix for the upper a arm mount...some type of special bushing and bolts.

im not really sure what to do about the radiator. i may get an aluminum one and have the spout re designed.

i geuss ill have to but new plastic, tank and seat

the tie rod issue is more then likely caused by the stem.

[toby400ex]

That sucks balls, when you are riding it do you notice the wieght difference from other 250r's that you have had?

[Pappy]

ive only riden it 4 or 5 laps on my course but yes it feels lighter. i can almost stand it on its grab bar with one hand:p :macho

[toby400ex]

Isnt the difference like 25 pounds, compared to a stock 250r frame?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by toby400ex
Isnt the difference like 25 pounds, compared to a stock 250r frame?

well maybe im stronger then i used to be:devil: it does feel lighter compared to other quads i have but i have been lifting so maybe thats it:devil:

[Tommy 17]

Originally posted by Pappy
well maybe im stronger then i used to be:devil: it does feel lighter compared to other quads i have but i have been lifting so maybe thats it:devil:


pappy the remote and beer bottles don't count:eek2: :blah:



j.w. but what would the differnce be with a stk plastic vs fullbore... they work on every other frame why not this one... i guess i'm sayin if the fullbore don't fit why would the stock...:confused:

[Pappy]

it doesnt have anything to do with fullbore. its caused by the tank and the seat posts. i have already had to cut the fullbore to clear the tank so if i go to a stock tank it may not look right. and you know i like things to look perfect not "off" on my quads.

by switching to a stock tank...and getting another seat i can see if or what is the issue. sad part is im hearing similiar problems from lrd owners but it did seem that lrd had corrected alot of the mistakes it had made. (sucks for me)

i have a call into a R specialist trying to aquire me a seat(i sold all mine) and i have a stock tank somewhere so im sure ill get it all straightend out.

[416exmx]

my buddy built a LRD framed R over the summer that i helped with and we had the same problems. every time we went to bolt something up it didnt fit right. it was a b!tch bolting stuff up to it. it didnt have skid plate mounts either. dont feel bad, you wasnt the only one.

[Martin Blair]

kibnd of sucks call up lrd they have always helped me and make good products.

personally i would finish that ***** and see how it runs

[Chef]

The Tie Rod problem isnt caused by the stem. I think thats a pretty common problem. The one I race with has that problem too. He just took a grinder to the post and took it down a little bit.

[Guy400]

Kenny, maybe LRD wanted you to use a syringe to fill the radiator:devil:

After looking at that I'm shocked at some of the oversights. The a-arm bolt is an obvious one. Maybe some of these problems and a few others are why these frames never really caught on with the pros at all.

[AndrewRRR]

That sucks, you'd expect things to work when you pay $2300 for a frame. From what i've heard LRD doesn't make those frames, Laeger makes them for LRD. You might call LRD or Laeger and find out what the deal is. I might head out to LRD later this week since i've been looking into those frames. I'll ask them what the deal is if I make it out.

[rollie]

that sucks!!!

[Pappy]

ive narrowed down most of the probelms. im happy to say almost all can be fixed easily.

[muff]

Originally posted by Pappy
ive narrowed down most of the probelms. im happy to say almost all can be fixed easily.

way to go :D are you partin the whole thing out or just some of the "troubled" parts that were on it?

[Pappy]

id really like to sell just the frame and some of the 400ex stuff that was on it. then get an arens or even a nice 88-89 stock frame and re install all the goodies. if i keep the lrd frame i will just install parts that actually work with this frame and she will be good to go

[Jnine]

Hello guys. Here's the facts on who is making what for which company.

LRD was started by Arlan Lehman. Get it?... Lehman Research & Development... Then Lehman sold his company and the name (LRD) to another guy who had a company that made aluminum tubes.. The new person decided they should make aluminum frames, and they even tried making a few for Laeger, and 1 or 2 for Doug ROll. HOWEVER.... The frames are not made by LRD, but instead LRD contracts another company called SAPA to make the frames for them. I know.... I was there in the plant in Portland, Oregon. They also make bicycle tubes, and other aluminum parts. So, at this point, LRD is owned by another person, although the the original LRD guy, Arlan Lehman, works for LRD building pipes. By the way...Here is something you didn't know. I designed the 400EX pipe, and the Raptor pipe for LRD several years ago. I did a design for them and made a couple prototypes, and my prototype pipes made more power than theirs! I knew it would... It's unstable gas flow calculations and variable RPMs... I had the numbers on my side, so I new it would work better than what they had... No kidding!

Hope that clears everything up!

[TDBRPH]

got any of those prototype raptor pipes laying around ;)

[Jnine]

I did have... I had several extras made out of stainless steel, and I gave them to local guys. At this time the only parts of the project I have left are my plans and a crate of the stainless steel headpipes that are already formed. Not enough parts to make completed units however.

[TDBRPH]

never hurts to ask :)

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by Jnine
Hello guys. Here's the facts on who is making what for which company.

LRD was started by Arlan Lehman. Get it?... Lehman Research & Development... Then Lehman sold his company and the name (LRD) to another guy who had a company that made aluminum tubes.. The new person decided they should make aluminum frames, and they even tried making a few for Laeger, and 1 or 2 for Doug ROll. HOWEVER.... The frames are not made by LRD, but instead LRD contracts another company called SAPA to make the frames for them. I know.... I was there in the plant in Portland, Oregon. They also make bicycle tubes, and other aluminum parts. So, at this point, LRD is owned by another person, although the the original LRD guy, Arlan Lehman, works for LRD building pipes. By the way...Here is something you didn't know. I designed the 400EX pipe, and the Raptor pipe for LRD several years ago. I did a design for them and made a couple prototypes, and my prototype pipes made more power than theirs! I knew it would... It's unstable gas flow calculations and variable RPMs... I had the numbers on my side, so I new it would work better than what they had... No kidding!

Hope that clears everything up!

Just out of curiosity, if your pipes you made for LRD made more power than theirs why didn't they use your design?
Arlan also does porting out at LRD, I believe that was part of the deal that since he pretty much IS lrd that he stayed on to do engine work and another guy take on the business side.
I'll see if I can make it out there friday, I need to dyno a couple bikes anyway.
-Andrew (lives 5 miles from LRD :D )

[Jnine]

They DID use my pipe desing for a long time, and still are for all I know. I made a BIG mistake and faxed a few drawings with all my dimensions. At that point they had my plans, and could have the parts made anywhere. I hadn't heard anything from them for a couple months, and then in the next issue of Dirt WHeels there were my two pipe designs in a new LRD ad. They didn't use stainless though.

[AndrewRRR]

That sucks! Remember in the future, at least get your design notarized and mail it to yourself and dont' open the envelope. Either that or patent it. You'll be protected from that kind of stuff in the future!
What are they using now instead of stainless?
A buddy of mine got a 440 motor kit from them a few years ago with their chrome EX pipe. That thing was frickin LOUD. We had to do several dukes of hazzard type escapes from the sound cops, lol.

[bmw500hp]

Originally posted by Jnine
They DID use my pipe desing for a long time, and still are for all I know. I made a BIG mistake and faxed a few drawings with all my dimensions. At that point they had my plans, and could have the parts made anywhere. I hadn't heard anything from them for a couple months, and then in the next issue of Dirt WHeels there were my two pipe designs in a new LRD ad. They didn't use stainless though.

Vengence is usually best served cold...and seasoned with market share!

Time to get back to drafts and take a Arens / ? pipe to market!:D

[Jnine]

Whatever made you think I might enter that market?

It is most definitely a direction I intend to go, and I have been doing a LOT of experimentation with materials in the past year for such a product. Just a matter of time......

[Dave400ex]

Oh I would like to see a Custom Shorty Arens pipe! Might be awesome!

[AndrewRRR]

You could make a fart-can exhaust with a 5" tip, i'm sure some riceboys ride quads too, haha

[Jnine]

Noise is the big issue, and usually the "shorty" pipes are not very quiet.

[Dave400ex]

Well yes that is very true. My TC shorty is VERY loud. Sent you a PM John.

[oldsandman]

Pappy,

Sorry I didn't see your post sooner.

I did have to remove some material from the radiator mounting "pins" to make my stock rad fit correctly. My cap has minimal clearance but does come off better than yours appears to in the picture. It still is tight but I think it is due to the frame tube diameter, more on that later...

I had none of the tie rod issues. I used a Roll stem and LSR tie rods and arms with 400 spindels. Maybe that has somthing to do with it!?

The front of the seat hold down bracket had as you said be modified (grinded on the bottom of the c) to fit. Again as I noted above I think it is due to the diameter of the tubing. I am using Fullbore but that is not the problem as I have tried the stock plastic too. I also had to trim the front of the plastic around the tank to get a proper fit. The tank is a little further forward than on the stock frame I believe.

My frame came with bolts for the a-arms that were the proper size so I didn't have a problem with that.

I bought mine in october of last year and don't know if any changes have been made or if yours is an earlier or later built frame.

[Pappy]

hahaha..its ok...no more lrd problems here now:p

[Dave400ex]

I'm sure this will be one modified YFZ! :muscle:

[oldsandman]

Lucky Dog!

[pgregg131]

Pappy, I had a LRD framed 250r for the first half of last season and had the same exact problems. I got the stock radiator to work but the clearance for the radiator cap was close. Before I tightened the upper bolts I forced the side without the cap up as high as it go and then tightened that side. Then the side with the cap I forced down while tightening the bolt on that side. This put the radiator on a slight slant in the frame and gave just enough clearance to get the cap off.

To get the gas tank to fit with my full bore plastics I had to put washers between the tank and the tank bracket to raise the tank. I also egged out the rear mounting holes on the front fenders. You might want to try taking the round rubber peices off the seat posts it will make the rear fenders and seat slide on easier.

My a-arm bolts had threads showing as well but I just ran it like that and had no problems.

[AndrewRRR]

Whoever designed the Attitude frame needs to go back to the drawing board and redesign their jig with proper clearances.
I was thinking about getting one of those frames but I can get those kind of problems designing my own frame! lol