early march...

[jeff1984]

i just got off the phone with temecula motorsports and they told that they no one is getting the 450r until at least march. the reason of the delay, again, is that the frames are breaking and honda feels uneasy about releasing a bikie with a weak frame. i know i kind of sound like just another rumor but that is what I was told. I'm not trying to start a rumor either, just posting more "info".

[AtvMxRider]

LMAO I think it is funny as hell.:D :blah: :devil:

[markeg192]

Hondas site still says January????????

[r450rr]

funny thing is everyone dogged honda for not making a all aluminum frame,,

its mostly steel, thats the last thing that should be breaking i think they would make sure the frame is good before they built about a half a million bikes.

[86atc250r]

Enough with the bogus rumors already.....

Do you guys honestly think that Honda, with their decades of manufacturing experience in manufacturing quality motorcycle engines and frames would pull a bone head move like build a frame for their flagship racer that can't handle the stress of projected riding conditions - then only to figure it out in the 11th hour? Doh!

Not only that, but do you honestly think that if it were true, Honda would be spreading it around to various dealers?

Same goes for the bogus engine threads - do you people think if poor performing engines were the reason for the delay Honda would be releasing that kind of info to dealers that are sure to spread it to the general public?

Give me a break (no pun intended :))

I doubt anyone at American Honda dislikes their job that much.

Use your heads for more than helmet holders folks......

[r450rr]

i second that motion

[markeg192]

All I know is I would like to buy one around March and hopefully there will be a few to be had.

[remlapr]

Suzuki wasn't smart enough to make their frame strong enough out of the box. I think it's always a compromise between how much it will cost them to produce a part and how high the quality is.

[norrisboat]

I talked to Tim Farr and Wayne(pep) this weekend and they both said january 27th or 28th it should be in the dealer shops.

[exrider44]

Im gonna have to agree with 86atc250r. They didnt just make this bike 6 months ago. I'm sure Honda througly tested it for a long period of time. They make quality equipment. :blah:

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by r450rr
i second that motion

Motion carried!
Originally posted by remlapr
Suzuki wasn't smart enough to make their frame strong enough out of the box. I think it's always a compromise between how much it will cost them to produce a part and how high the quality is.

Ya but that is Suzuki. No offense to any zuk lovers but they aren't the best bikes out there. After wroking in the industry and on them for a few years now I'd rank them a distant 3rd behind Yamaha and just barely ahead of Kawasaki. But now that they sell the same bikes I guess we will have to move Polaris up to 4th and let Kawi and Suki sit at 3rd together.

I talked to the guy from KGM today (that is the company that sets up and delivers our bikes) and he said he heard that Honda doesn't even have them at the Seattle warehouse yet. That doesn't really man anything because they still have plenty of time to show up before the 28th but it would be reasuring if they were there already.

It is funny each time you hear of a delay there is a new reason. I think a lot of the dealers are just makeing up excuses that aren't based on any factual info. Just what the salesmen are telling the customers to keep them at bay. After all isn't that what salesmen do bes? Feed customers a load of crap to keep them happy for the time being until the sale is made.

[Woody_YFZ]

I'd be really surprised if Honda doesn't stick to their January release date. I'm pretty sure they had everything figured out before they released it. As far as Suzuki's frames, give me a break, they don't crack. I've had mine for over a year, my buddy has had his over a year and my brother has had his over a year and none of us have any problems with our frames and yes, we mx them, which is more than the majority of their owners. Don't worry, I think Honda is for real on this Jan. 28 release date, at least I hope so.

[putzld]

The suzukis frames do crack, anyone who races them seriously already has reinforced the frame so that they dont crack. A magazine even had an article on how to fix the problem with the frame cracking; it is a well documented problem.

[dirtmomma]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
Motion carried!

.

I talked to the guy from KGM today (that is the company that sets up and delivers our bikes) and he said he heard that Honda doesn't even have them at the Seattle warehouse yet. That doesn't really man anything because they still have plenty of time to show up before the 28th but it would be reasuring if they were there already.

It is funny each time you hear of a delay there is a new reason. I think a lot of the dealers are just makeing up excuses that aren't based on any factual info. Just what the salesmen are telling the customers to keep them at bay. After all isn't that what salesmen do bes? Feed customers a load of crap to keep them happy for the time being until the sale is made.


LMAO the comment about salesmen hahaha I worked in the car business (NOT sales) for 5 yrs & BOY ISN'T THAT THE TRUTH:rolleyes: Anyway so are you from this area?? Where at if so?? Do ya do any racing around our area? I know 20 questions huh, just curious since you mentioned Seattle warehouse.

[robby26wi]

if you are seriously racing a 400ex you better reinforce the frame also...

[YLW400]

No offense to anyone here, but don't you think that Yamaha (speaking about the Raptor tranny problems)would of figured out that they had a transmission problem before they released them? I don't care how much "testing" you do on particular things, when they are actually put to use the way they are intended to, you may find flaws....

[greghall]

enough BS wait till the 28th to see whats up the frames arent cracking thats BS stop the rumors

[86atc250r]

As far as Suzuki's frames, give me a break, they don't crack.

Are you kidding!?

I can show you several problem areas on the LTZ frame - these are problems designed into the frame, not simply problems from abuse.

Some of them are pretty scary considering that it really calls into question Suzuki's engineering dept in my mind (considering I have no formal training other than knowledge gathered from being an enthusiast - and I was able to quickly identify them).

Over the years we have owned many different machines. Our Suzuki ATVs have consistantly had poorly designed chassis'. I can give more examples than just the LTZ if you like - not just theory either, practical breaking and bending experience :).

With the LTZ, they didn't suffer handling problems of the past because they essentially copied the geometry of a 400EX chassis - however, they did screw up the things they changed & that's where the LTZ's problem lies.

If you haven't experienced problems, that's great - however, it doesn't mean that they don't exist. I have several friends that race cross country that have experienced numerous failures ranging from the notorious frame bending behind the rear lower control arm mount, to broken swingarm bolts, to broken upper front shocks mounts, to broken subframes (where they mount to the frame). In several cases these failures have cost them races.

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by dirtmomma
LMAO the comment about salesmen hahaha I worked in the car business (NOT sales) for 5 yrs & BOY ISN'T THAT THE TRUTH:rolleyes: Anyway so are you from this area?? Where at if so?? Do ya do any racing around our area? I know 20 questions huh, just curious since you mentioned Seattle warehouse.

Ya I live in Bellevue right now and I work at I-90. I haven't done any raceing yet because all I have really had since I was 14 was my ATC250R. I don't know of anywhere that will let you race a three wheeler. I've been thinking of getting into it though once I get my 450R. I heard Pacific raceways has ATV practices on Wedensday nights and was thinking about heading down there some but I looked on their schedule and there isn't anything on there about it. My cousin races flat track and I think it would be cool to do that but I don't have $20+K to spend on my bike to get it up to par with all those guys to even think about being competitive and they don't have a stock class of any kind so I don't think I will be doing that. My big thing is heading to Florence to ride in the sand dunes.

[86atc250r]

No offense to anyone here, but don't you think that Yamaha (speaking about the Raptor tranny problems)would of figured out that they had a transmission problem before they released them?

Not necessarily....

Besides - read the rest of the post and use your head (as I said before) - do you honestly believe that Honda would be telling dealers "Oh yeah, we screwed up on the frame - it's been breaking and you'll have to wait for us to get our heads out of our butt to get it fixed". Heck no, it's going to be kept hush-hush if that was really a problem...

Think about it a little. Honda has been building essentially the same ATV chassis for a very long time now. Yes, over time the 250R and 400EX do have a couple places that will show up with cracks - nature of the beast.

Given that & knowing that Honda's engineering abilities are practically unequaled - do you REALLY think suddenly they have forgotten what it takes to build a frame that won't hold up to their expectations only to figure it out this late in the production phase - long after they've announced it, produced documentation, set a release date? This is Honda folks - not some back yard fabricator.

Take a look at the 450R frame - it's tubing diameter appears to be as large as or larger than a 400EX. It's design is cleaner, fewer butted up welds, more continuous tube, and more gussetting - in fact, compare it to a YFZ frame and it will make the YFZ chassis look like a pieced together back yard project.

Given these facts, it can probably be deduced that the frame is not a problem......

Think people - think... That's all I ask.... I don't have time to think for everyone :)

[YLW400]

I am in no way doubting Honda, Gabe. I am however questioning why the machine was supposed to be released earlier, and it hasn't been released yet.... Things do happen. Even the "holier than thou" engineers at Honda may make a mistake occasionally...lol

[dirtmomma]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
Ya I live in Bellevue right now and I work at I-90. I haven't done any raceing yet because all I have really had since I was 14 was my ATC250R. I don't know of anywhere that will let you race a three wheeler. I've been thinking of getting into it though once I get my 450R. I heard Pacific raceways has ATV practices on Wedensday nights and was thinking about heading down there some but I looked on their schedule and there isn't anything on there about it. My cousin races flat track and I think it would be cool to do that but I don't have $20+K to spend on my bike to get it up to par with all those guys to even think about being competitive and they don't have a stock class of any kind so I don't think I will be doing that. My big thing is heading to Florence to ride in the sand dunes.

Oh Geez I think I've talked to you before sorry if I repeated myself ya know they say the memory is the 1st thing to go LOL. Anyway if you wanna flattrack that 3 wheeler, they have a class @ Oakwood Arena there are about 3-4 usually in it!! And if you need some tires we have a pair of rears that came off a ATC we bought they are the old school Ohatso H Tracks I'd let ya borrow!! OH believe me you DON'T have to have $20K + to race flattrack around here, heck we sure don't & my son just took the youth 200cc championship out @ Monroe!!!! They have ALOT of different classes too like the Master's open,4 stroke open,ect. that you could run a stock quad in ESPECIALLY a new 450R:blah: :macho Anyway if you want any info on the races let me know, Oakwood has a flattrack this Sat. night(17th) if your interested check out thier website www.OakwoodRacing.com
TTYL>Kym:cool:

[86atc250r]

It's already been explained.... Numerous times....

It's a vendor problem. Honda doesn't make all the parts and materials that go into a Honda quad. Thus there can be forces outside of Honda's control that can be problems.

Honda can put pressure on these outside vendors, and if it turns out that it is Showa & a shock problem, I'm sure this will affect future contracts with them in some way or another. Not a good position to be in.

Honda didn't even mention who the vendor was or what the problem was - they certainly are not going to start telling sales people - uhhh, yeah, we've found chassis problems at the last second, or uhh - the engine isn't putting out the power we thought it would & we just now figured it out...

Just tired of all these bogus rumors people are passing without thinking through.

Sure, unexpected problems can crop up, but serious issues like engine performance and catastrophic chassis flaws will show up LONG before the final production & release phase with a manufacturer as experienced as Honda.

[YLW400]

You know as well as I do, that they are going to happen...lol Hell, rumors will still be floating around after it is released..lol All I know is, if all goes well, I'd like to be on one this time next year..

[86atc250r]

Just trying to stave some of the more bogus ones off - if left to run rampant they only get worse :)

Robbi -
if you are seriously racing a 400ex you better reinforce the frame also...
The difference is, for a 400EX, you need a small gusset at the upper shock mount and if you want to get real serious, a small one where the front down tubes connect to the tube that goes to the upper control arms to keep this connection point from coming apart in rare circumstances (I've only ever seen one). That's all that's necessary.

On an LTZ you have a whole series of areas that need addressing and you'll even need to box some areas in.

[Fred55]

When you say the YFZ frame looks like a cobbled together, are you implying that it is a weak frame? I am not trying to start a flame war or anything, but is that what you meant by that?

[toby400ex]

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Just trying to stave some of the more bogus ones off - if left to run rampant they only get worse :)

Robbi -
The difference is, for a 400EX, you need a small gusset at the upper shock mount and if you want to get real serious, a small one where the front down tubes connect to the tube that goes to the upper control arms to keep this connection point from coming apart in rare circumstances (I've only ever seen one). That's all that's necessary.

On an LTZ you have a whole series of areas that need addressing and you'll even need to box some areas in. The LTZ needs like an 18 peice kit if i remember right from looking at z400central threads.

[tholt]

pretty much no matter how many pieces your looking at, all the stock frames have flaws in them and have to be eventually rewelded over time. thats a given when you buy a quad and want to race it. only way factories are going to stop that is if they just start gusseting them like everyone eventually does or start making there frames out of Chromoly.some frames need more then others so in my opinion thats just how ya gotta look at it.

if you like the suzuki and the way it rides gusset it and it will be ok. if you like an EX fix the shock mount and go.
then if you like the yamaha some have been had and some have been good. it is also that way with other companies. you can get one quad that will last forever and never crack and some that crack first time you ride it.

as for me, i ride a 250R still with a stock chassis, just got it and rode it 3 times in mx and it hasn't cracked yet. i know its going to and that frame is worse about cracking then any of them. so we all know it is going to happen if you have a production bike with a stock. THE FRAME WILL EVENTUALLY CRACK AND MUST BE GUSSETED.

thats just my opinion on the whole deal.

[XC250R]

First and last I saw from the first day of release Honda has claimed a January release on the 450R. They never said when in January, so how is it late? It is only late because the dealers said so....do you actually trust the salesmen? They probably only said it will be released in December so people would put money down sooner.

If I remember correctly the 400EX was released in similiar fashion. It made about six dirt wheels covers before it was released, the web sites for ATV's weren't as big or popular then, so it went business as usual.

[rtyfz450]

Just trying to stave some of the more bogus ones off - if left to run rampant they only get worse \

I agree that the z frame is weak in certian areas and can cause problems with the abuse that the bike is put through when racing but under normal riding conditions problems are unlikely to appear. The 04 model has corrections to the frame so it is no longer an issue for the general user (not the pro racer). I have about 6 friends with z's and my dad also rides one 5 of them have not had any problems and they ride just as hard as I do.

as for the 400ex I have personal experience with this one, under normal abuse the fram will crack not only at the down turn but near the middle of the tank wear the main top forward guesset is. I have welded it up on both sides before I ever raced the bike. I have also had cracking from jumping the bike on the upper shock mounts. I have never hit anything or had an endo.
I have to disagree on the yfz frame slander because I jump that bike far more aggressively than the 400ex and have not had any problems. 1000s of jumps and over 7 months seat time. inspected the frame no problems. the frame is very clean and the welds all look good (better than my 400ex).

[jeff1984]

ok, i just got off the telly with temecula motor..., again, and talked to a different sales person and i mentioned what the other salesman said about the frames breaking and how it is going to be in stores march. he told me that he must have been misinformed because he said the bike is still scheculed to be in there store the 28th of jan. but won't on the show room floor until about the middle of the second week of feb.

lets hear what you gotta say about that:rolleyes:

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by dirtmomma
Oh Geez I think I've talked to you before sorry if I repeated myself ya know they say the memory is the 1st thing to go LOL. Anyway if you wanna flattrack that 3 wheeler, they have a class @ Oakwood Arena there are about 3-4 usually in it!! And if you need some tires we have a pair of rears that came off a ATC we bought they are the old school Ohatso H Tracks I'd let ya borrow!! OH believe me you DON'T have to have $20K + to race flattrack around here, heck we sure don't & my son just took the youth 200cc championship out @ Monroe!!!! They have ALOT of different classes too like the Master's open,4 stroke open,ect. that you could run a stock quad in ESPECIALLY a new 450R:blah: :macho Anyway if you want any info on the races let me know, Oakwood has a flattrack this Sat. night(17th) if your interested check out thier website www.OakwoodRacing.com
TTYL>Kym:cool:

I guess I need to start looking into more places to race. My cousin races and has like $25K into his 400EX and another 25K into his 250R and all the quads at the track were the same way. There wasn't any classes for unmodified bikes. He races at Castle rock and Rainier a few other places but I don't recall all exatly where. Anyway when were you in talking to me and what was it you brought in and what were we doing to it? I'm one of the techs back in the service dept. I'll look into the races for this weekend and maybe I will show up to watch. That might be kinda cool!

[dirtmomma]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
I guess I need to start looking into more places to race. My cousin races and has like $25K into his 400EX and another 25K into his 250R and all the quads at the track were the same way. There wasn't any classes for unmodified bikes. He races at Castle rock and Rainier a few other places but I don't recall all exatly where. Anyway when were you in talking to me and what was it you brought in and what were we doing to it? I'm one of the techs back in the service dept. I'll look into the races for this weekend and maybe I will show up to watch. That might be kinda cool!

Are you Chef's cousin??? I meant I though I talked to you on either this forum or another, but maybe not. Yeah you should check out the races it's not as nice or big as Rainier or Hannegan but it's fun!!:blah:

[2004TRX450R]

Yup I'm chef,s cousin. I don't recall rainer beeing that big. If a track is smaller than that it must be pretty small.