ATV Action review 450R

[atcyalater]

I saw this review on another forum of the review of the 450R in the new issue of ATV Action.

Just opened up the latest ATV Action mag, and here were some of the comments about the TRX:

" Despite Honda's claims, the increase in power from the HRC kit is not nearly as dramatic as when you uncork the yamaha YFZ 450 with GYT-R parts. In drag races, the HRC 450R did not demonstrate a clear advantage over the stocker. On the rest of the track and on our trail rides, we noticed the increase in sound more than an added production of horsepower and torque."

" It's a great quad, but Honda seems to be pushing the 450R in different directions. The powerband and light front end make it a great trail quad, but it lacks electric start and reverse, plus it's geared too high for anything tighter than a motocross track."

"The bike usually kicks over on one kick but sometimes it takes four or five kicks."

The write up did have many good things to say about the TRX, and anyone with common sense understands that like it or not, the TRX will be an excellent quad. It was slightly refreshing to read an article about the TRX that discussed some of it's few shortcoming in addition to it's many strengths. This was not meant to flame anyone/brand, just thought some people would be interested in hearing this.

[r450rr]

i believe mags are biast and payed off.

its a 180 compared to what some of the other mags say about the hrc kit and the power....so dont beleive magazines..

[Honda]

Yep! Don't beleive everything you read in the Magazines or on the Internet. O.K. Especially not the NET!

Basically all you get out of a magazine is a person or group of peoples opinion. That opinion Could be swayed by many diffrent factors.

It would be nice to see some dyno charts showing the real diffrences.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Honda
Yep! Don't beleive everything you read in the Magazines or on the Internet. O.K. Especially not the NET!




ok i will take your advice:huh

[kwatts400]

I still can't believe people are complaining about e-start and reverse, now the mags are doing it. It's not a big deal, and if you want an r or a yfz, then you'll have to deal with it.

[seatec]

Complaining about the the no reverse is the dumbest. Has anybody ever seen a Pro rider on a Z400 use the R gear? if so, its rare. The gripe about the E-start is almost as dumb but not quite. For slugs like me it is very appealing to have an E-start and in general have the choice. If i where faced wiht a decision to buy either equally performing quad i would pick the e-start version as other like me might. Oh and spare me the "Real Racers kickstart" comment. It is true that most racers would take the e-start of the YFZ but most of the folx who say that dumb comment arent even "real" racers so shut up!! :D WHat s a real racer anyway?
DO i have to have done a certain amout of races before i am a "real racer?:confused:

[Honda]

I still can't believe people are complaining about e-start and reverse, now the mags are doing it. It's not a big deal, and if you want an r or a yfz, then you'll have to deal with it.

It would be nice to have reverse. But this is a Purpose built machine. The purpose is winning races.

Electric start does nothing but add extra weight and presents the opportunity for more electrical failures. The real racers are not going to want electric start. And like me won't want to spend the time and money to remove it.

Real racing machines don't have electric start. I really don't understand why everyone is making a big fuss about it.

This ain't ATV Offroad Fury, Boys and Girls.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Honda
The purpose is winning races.


Real racing machines don't have electric start.



ok so lets strip wins away from anyone who wins a race with electric start equiped quads. move into the new age bro;)

[Honda]

I'm just not so Lazy that I would have to have an electric starter. If it's such a Big deal then go buy a Yamaha, either way the New Honda is going to sell like crazy.

The bottom line is most of the people who are going to buy the 450R are not going to care or won't need the electric starter.

[greghall]

for XC a electric starter would be a plus when getting hung up & stalling in a rut or turn when yuo have a line of bike trailing you but really it doesnt make a differnce w/me mines on order it will have more than enough power for me with just a slippon T4,ect.

[Honda]

Oh and spare me the "Real Racers kickstart" comment. It is true that most racers would take the e-start of the YFZ but most of the folx who say that dumb comment arent even "real" racers so shut up!! WHat s a real racer anyway?

All I am trying to say here is that those in the market for this machine are not going to make a fuss about it not having an electric start. Most Pro Riders are not going to be concerned with this issue. I know for a fact that most MX riders won't want E start.

It is not about being a Real Racer. Real Racers however will choose the lighter and least cluttered of the Vehicles offered.

The real problem is that most Americans want all these comfort items. People want their Trucks to ride like Cadillac's and won't buy something if it is too loud, rides to rough or doesn't come with an ON-STAR button.

Honda knows who is in the market for this type of machine, they also understand how Pricing effects sales numbers. I would not be so excited about the R if it had electric start. It just makes the machine more complicated, more exspensive and Heavier.

Maybe they will give me a free Cell phone with my 450R, then if my electric start fails or I need reverse I can just call for help! Maybe It will come with a Camara in it too.

[seatec]

Originally posted by Honda
All I am trying to say here is that those in the market for this machine are not going to make a fuss about it not having an electric start. Most Pro Riders are not going to be concerned with this issue. I know for a fact that most MX riders won't want E start.

It is not about being a Real Racer. Real Racers however will choose the lighter and least cluttered of the Vehicles offered.

The real problem is that most Americans want all these comfort items. People want their Trucks to ride like Cadillac's and won't buy something if it is too loud, rides to rough or doesn't come with an ON-STAR button.

Honda knows who is in the market for this type of machine, they also understand how Pricing effects sales numbers. I would not be so excited about the R if it had electric start. It just makes the machine more complicated, more exspensive and Heavier.



REal racers will choose the lighter and least cluttered. well according to the books they weigh the same even with e-start. It is much much easier to start a machine with an e-start then it is with a kick start and thats a fact jack. I bet you a hundred bucks that having two equally well tuned engines and carbs, when a racer stalls the one with the e-start will get going faster than the one with the kick starter. Think of the actions one has to perform to kick start. put kick starter into position,Stand up. Kick and sometimes push the kick starter back in. Now having had a CRF450 02 model i know that the engines start right up wiht the hot start engaged but none the less. the e-start is faster but as you said probably more proned to failure due to water and such and complexity of system.

I have to admit that most racers will indeed remove the e-start and go with the kickstarter. WHy? Save weight and make the machine less proned for failure. They can aofford to do this because most of the time their machines are in perfect working condition and are jetted right. A lot of us dont have our carbs jetted perfect when we go and race so it could take more than one kick to start the engine. As you know, one to many kick coud cost you valuable time and the win.

[Honda]

SeaTec,
I think your right it would be nice to have the E start in some situations, but I have had both types and can honestly say electric start is a Pain. It sucks getting on your quad on a cold day and finding out your battery is dead. Also, if it fails out on the trail you really have no way to get it started back up again. During tear downs of my quads the ones with E start always took the longest and had more parts to deal with. Each has it's benifits and drawbacks. I just truly feel that for this type of ATV the Benifits of not having E start are going to far outweigh the drawbacks.

If you lose anytime from having to kick your bike over, it is going to be minimal at best.

[atcyalater]

Originally posted by Honda
All I am trying to say here is that those in the market for this machine are not going to make a fuss about it not having an electric start. Most Pro Riders are not going to be concerned with this issue. I know for a fact that most MX riders won't want E start.

It is not about being a Real Racer. Real Racers however will choose the lighter and least cluttered of the Vehicles offered.

The real problem is that most Americans want all these comfort items. People want their Trucks to ride like Cadillac's and won't buy something if it is too loud, rides to rough or doesn't come with an ON-STAR button.

Honda knows who is in the market for this type of machine, they also understand how Pricing effects sales numbers. I would not be so excited about the R if it had electric start. It just makes the machine more complicated, more exspensive and Heavier.

Maybe they will give me a free Cell phone with my 450R, then if my electric start fails or I need reverse I can just call for help! Maybe It will come with a Camara in it too.

If you would have been following this forum you would know that the reason that Honda didn't put an electric start on the 450R is that they didn't have a design for one. Yamaha already had an electric start version of their 450 engine therefore there were no R&D costs associated with it. Honda is currently working on an electric start version of their 450 dirt bike engine but it won’t be released until 2005. I wont be surprised to see an electric start TRX450R in the future.

[MX#9]

I think I will miss the electric start, but not enough to get a different brand of machine. For me ,personally I feel that anything but a Honda is a step backwards, electric start or no electric start. This reasoning is not that I think the Yfz is junk, as I believe the YFZ takes a back seat to nothing else out there. The dealer that I have dealt with since 1983 does not sell Yamahas, he sells Honda,Kawasaki,Suzuki and they take great care of me ,even though I don't race much anymore. My expierience with Hondas has been very good ,as they have been the most reliable and easiest to work on. Reverse to me is no big deal,but after 9+ years of electric start I think I will miss it.

[JWhite]

Silly rabbits, R's are not supposed to have electric start.

Now if it was an EX, then that would be a different story.

But it is NOT a EX people, It's an R.

I personally would like a good working dependable electric start on the Honda for recreational riding. But in racing conditions I'd scrap it simply for the weight advantage. Secondly, too much to chance failing during a race (no punt intended YFZ guys), we've seen a couple races in 2003 where a couple different YFZ's had starting problems. Most of the guys take thiers off and go kick on the tracks in the North East.

With my luck I'd be that 1 in 100 guy who had a problem starting my machine in a race. I wouldn't chance that.

I'm not saying the YFZ's do it all the time because they don't. They're pretty reliable for the most part, but once in a great while we do see one on the track messing up and they guy trying desperately to push start it. All the time losing spots.

[dhines]

All of you kiddies yammering about "real" racers and "real" men preferring a kick start... check out the starting line of the Texas GNCC here in another couple of weeks and see how many of those guys are kicking over their 4-stroke machines.

For racing in the woods, I'll take an extra 5-10 pounds to not have to hump a hot 4-stroke after stalling it on the side of a monster, rutted-out hill. Motocross, I'll grant you, may be a different story, but anyone who says you have to have a kick start to be a "real" racer is delusional!

[seatec]

SO in conclusion i think it is safe to say that allthough conveniant, the reliability issues because of the complexity of a E-start is not a good idea in racing conditions. Has nothing to do with being a "Real Man/Woman Racer" but sheer odds of failure. That i can live with.

[JWhite]

Originally posted by seatec
SO in conclusion i think it is safe to say that allthough conveniant, the reliability issues because of the complexity of a E-start is not a good idea in racing conditions. Has nothing to do with being a "Real Man/Woman Racer" but sheer odds of failure. That i can live with.

Yes. But remember, those odds are slim for failure. But they are indeed there. Thank god neither of my YFZ's have had a problem yet. I have one with the kickstart and one with the electric start. So I got spare parts should something go wrong.

When my R's get here, I'll be able to see how they both kick. I will tell you one thing, the YFZ is a pain to kickstart sometimes. Otherwise I'm pretty happy with them.