thought of the night [Archive]

Crazy4bluEx

01-08-2004, 10:43 PM

LMFAO.. i am really really really tired! i swear i read "life or death".... do i believe in life after death? nah not at all... i just can't bring myself too believe something that isnt there physically that appeals to the senses.... on any level. Not religious at all, i dont see the point in doing things simply for doing them... sadly, alot of things fall under this category... and i am usually criticised or looked at funny when i declare i have no religious beliefs. oh well, even without moral support, im still livin large, and getting mine, and that is all that matters. :D :cool:

JOEX

01-08-2004, 10:45 PM

LOL, I knew you'd want more:p

I'm not a very articulate speaker/writer.....

You have to have faith to belive in the unknown, something I lack in very much.

This may be a bit off the wall ....... I look at it like sleeping, you don't know you have been asleep until you wake up. When you die you don't wake up, end of story.

I do keep that sliver of a possibility open but for the most part it's over.

Joe

Pappy

01-08-2004, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Z400MXgirlie
This is gonna be like past religion threads. Just flaming and everything. Cuz everyone has their own opinions and wont listen to each other, thats just how the world works.

no that wont happen in one of my threads;)

Crazy4bluEx

01-08-2004, 10:51 PM

"This may be a bit off the wall ....... I look at it like sleeping, you don't know you have been asleep until you wake up. When you die you don't wake up, end of story. "

Man joe, you are full of great things too say tonight! you may not be very articulate, but you summed up what would have taken me 2 pages, in 2 - 3 sentences... very nice way of looking at it.

JOEX

01-08-2004, 11:07 PM

This is kinda scary...... other people think like I do:eek2:

To be honest, I do wish I had more faith. It seems those that do live a happier life....

Joe

derekhonda

01-08-2004, 11:08 PM

yes, jesus arose on the third day and ascended into heaven, he died to cleanse our sins and allow the gates of heaven to be open for all of us. It is now our duty to fulfill his obligation.

exatak199

01-08-2004, 11:12 PM

Amen brother;) just what i was gunna type

Diedrich

01-08-2004, 11:18 PM

yeah i believe theres a heaven..im not really religous but i try to do right and live my life the right way...i think if u believe in it then you'll go but if you dont then it probably will be over..aslong as they have quads and women wherever i go then i'll be happy;)

JD400exrider

01-08-2004, 11:24 PM

Dune Surfer

01-08-2004, 11:25 PM

Interesting question, Hmm no proof either way. So many differant ideas on this subject. Many people base thier whole life on the belief in a second chance. Seems to me most churches use this as guilt to make you stay. As for me I would like to think there is more but I really don't.

Narly R

01-08-2004, 11:44 PM

I ALWAYs think about this stuff. Like what happens after life, i mean its almost I would wanna die to find out. But I am not going to go to that extent. But dreams are weird too. But I dont think they have anything to do with life and death.

I wounder if once you die you can still roam the earth, you just arnt seen or anything. Like your spirit or whatever...?:confused:

Max400

01-09-2004, 12:12 AM

I beleve that there is life after death, but I was raised in a very religiuos house hold and still beleve it to this day.........now there is a big difference between faith and organised religion, I have faith in God, but I don't go to church, I did all my life until I left home. But I still have faith, I don't dig on all those prechers on TV wanting your money cause, Brother the God I believe in is not short on Cash:D .Thats why I don't go to church, but I try to live right, I'm no saint and I don't have that high and migthy attitude, I hate that............I guess what I'm trying to say is it don't hurt to believe in god cause I got everything to gain and nothing to lose!

If there is no heaven then that will just be the end, so be it.it if there is I want to be on the big Guy upstairs side:D

But to each his own, Peace!!!

batgeek

01-09-2004, 12:14 AM

put me in the ground, lemme feed the worms. i'm done.

FastHonda400ex

01-09-2004, 02:07 AM

I believe in God, Jesus Christ, heaven, and hell. I used to go to church when I was growing up, but God doesn't require me to attend church to believe in him or to keep my faith. My church is in the mountains where I hunt, fish, and ride atv's. I enjoy the beauty of our world and the animals that God created. Deep down in my heart I know that there has to be something else besides our existence on this planet. I try to live my life right and be a good samaritan at times to help others in their time of need. I'm no saint, but I try to treat others as I would want them to treat me. I hope that one day, we can all be with our families, friends, and our creator in eternal peace and happiness:D

MOUSE

01-09-2004, 06:25 AM

i say yes i believe in GOD and heaven and that when we die our soul will continue on

MOUSE

01-09-2004, 06:28 AM

Originally posted by Max400
I beleve that there is life after death, but I was raised in a very religiuos house hold and still beleve it to this day.........now there is a big difference between faith and organised religion, I have faith in God, but I don't go to church, I did all my life until I left home. But I still have faith, I don't dig on all those prechers on TV wanting your money cause, Brother the God I believe in is not short on Cash:D .Thats why I don't go to church, but I try to live right, I'm no saint and I don't have that high and migthy attitude, I hate that............I guess what I'm trying to say is it don't hurt to believe in god cause I got everything to gain and nothing to lose!

If there is no heaven then that will just be the end, so be it.it if there is I want to be on the big Guy upstairs side:D

But to each his own, Peace!!!

i really like that post

Pappy

01-09-2004, 06:32 AM

posted by Dunesurfer:

Interesting question, Hmm no proof either way. So many differant ideas on this subject. Many people base thier whole life on the belief in a second chance. Seems to me most churches use this as guilt to make you stay. As for me I would like to think there is more but I really don't.

__________________

i couldnt agree more with your statement.

member

01-09-2004, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by derekhonda
yes, jesus arose on the third day and ascended into heaven, he died to cleanse our sins and allow the gates of heaven to be open for all of us. It is now our duty to fulfill his obligation.

this guy knows what he is talking about,... i have faith in God and Jesus, but i dont go to church mainly because i think there are to many hypocrites(sp??) thier for ex. in church my friend clint sits there and is the perfect model child , and then once he is at the party next saturday he is drinking the entire keg himself and smokin weed, havin sex doin all kinds of crap

Samson

01-09-2004, 07:49 AM

So which came first? The chicken or the egg?

Seriously! Think about it. Evolution is an extremely flawed theory folks. AND if you don’t believe in creation, that’s your alternative. Some scientist wants you to believe that nature can mix mud under the right conditions and create a living organism. Ah, but not JUST a living organism, but one that is also capable of reproduction. AND then there is Darwin’s theory. His entire theory is based on varying physical characteristics of the same species of animal associated with different regions. Prime example…people. Asians and Africans look different then the typical European. So we evolved different right? OK, then why do we have basically the same features? We all have 2 arms, legs, eyes, ears. (I’ll get to why we have different hair/skin colors in a second.) Seems to me that there would be no need for a missing link, because evolution should be a constant. After all it happened over billions of years, right? Not overnight? Don’t see any ape-men. And what about mutations? Yep we have them. Sometimes it’s called cancer. But your kids will not develop wings, or a beak, or hooves. I promise! I can’t believe people buy into that crap. Well, if it’s not evolution, then what’s up?

Look, I have brown hair. My kids have blonde. We don’t look alike. Evolution? NOOOooooo! GENETICS! Species are limited by there genetic makeup. Too bad Darwin never had my high school biology course. Who sets the genetic makeup? GOD!

I think most atheists are scared by the fact that they are responsible to the Higher Being. People today have a “me” complex. No reason to be scared. Life is about preparation, folks. Live, laugh and learn, but don’t ever think you are alone.

You say God doesn’t feel real in your life? Yet you won’t even put in the smallest effort to create a relationship with him? Go figure.

pa_countryboy

01-09-2004, 08:26 AM

Samson

01-09-2004, 09:37 AM

Originally posted by member
this guy knows what he is talking about,... i have faith in God and Jesus, but i dont go to church mainly because i think there are to many hypocrites(sp??) thier for ex. in church my friend clint sits there and is the perfect model child , and then once he is at the party next saturday he is drinking the entire keg himself and smokin weed, havin sex doin all kinds of crap

What, you think there is some type of metamorphosis when you walk into a church? Everyone in there is human. Acting like a model citizen in church has a lot to do with respecting others, not just trying to act like something you’re not. Very few people live by what they preach. And thank God for those few, is all I can say.

And yes. I am a huge hypocrite. BUT, I’m working on it.
:)

Max400

01-09-2004, 09:54 AM

Amen Samson...very well said!

Samson

01-09-2004, 01:08 PM

I thought if anybody needs some answers, these are some pretty decent sites:

http://www.raptureready.us/evolution.htm

http://www.bible.com/answers/alife.html

Not trying to argue or condemn. I just think we are spiritual beings and if you ignore that part of yourself it'll leave a void. Just something to ponder. I'm through preaching.
:)

AtvMxRider

01-09-2004, 01:38 PM

Bob-Hobo

01-09-2004, 01:53 PM

WTF?:huh

Tommy 17

01-09-2004, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by FastHonda400ex
I believe in God, Jesus Christ, heaven, and hell. I used to go to church when I was growing up, but God doesn't require me to attend church to believe in him or to keep my faith. My church is in the mountains where I hunt, fish, and ride atv's. I enjoy the beauty of our world and the animals that God created. Deep down in my heart I know that there has to be something else besides our existence on this planet. I try to live my life right and be a good samaritan at times to help others in their time of need. I'm no saint, but I try to treat others as I would want them to treat me. I hope that one day, we can all be with our families, friends, and our creator in eternal peace and happiness:D

wow i'm exactly like that!!!

u'd be amazed when huntin how peaceful and quiet it is... its about the only time i really think about god and all that stuff deeply... i'm a catholic and i believe in it all but i dont wanna go to church... i htae the catholic churches ways about money and political things... to me theres nothing like being on a quad... or sittin in my tree stand!

i do believe in another place... and i can't wait to go there... the big mx/hunting ground in the sky:macho

quaddict53

01-09-2004, 02:25 PM

I believe in Heaven, and God, and especially that His son Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins....I go to church, I give them some money...ALMOST anything they do with it is better than wasting it on a material item for me....and I'm really glad to hear that so many of you try to live your life by treating people well and like you would like to be treated....i think whether you are Christian or not, the world would be a better place if all were like you....BUT, good works do not get you into Heaven....the only thing that can get you past the pearly gates is a true belief that Jesus was God's son and that he died for our sins....if you truly believe that, then you should have no problem doing what God asks of you...think about it, he is saving you from an eternal sleep and is letting you go to Heaven where you can ride forever....I would do anything for him if he is willing to do that for me....

JMO:)

exriderdude

01-09-2004, 03:24 PM

well just think about it, what happens when you die............. nothing, well atleast thats what we think, or even hope. Heaven, Hell... i doubt it, its just an idea, and so is God. Im not tryin to start a fight or anything but that is exactly what God is, an idea. I think that the reason we have that idea is to inspire ourselfs, we believe in God and faith and we think that it helps us, and it does. People say the only reason they got through a bad time in their life is because of there faith... this almighty idea is here so that we can help ourselves, god is not helping you, you are. But then again there are people who depend on god to help them, just like the movie "Bruce Almighty", god said that too many people look up when they should be looking at theirselves. Its something that drives us, drives us to lead a better life, to be a good person. We need someone to lead us, so, we think of "god".

well anyway, back to the real question... i think Crazy4BluEx has a very good idea. Maybe its all just a dream, like this is a dream and when we die we wake up, and begin are normal life, and so on. But if you just think about, nothing CANT happen, can it?? it cant just end, and be black (or white)??

oh i dunno what im talkin about:rolleyes:

Glow Plug

01-09-2004, 03:33 PM

I don't really belive what to think of it, I don't think that you countiune to live after you die but I can't prove that until i am dead. BUT I do belive that god does exsit but yet I also belive in the idea of evolution. I don't really know what to think :o

PHAT400

01-09-2004, 04:03 PM

WOW!:eek2: What a bunch of great post's.... After reading all of these I tend to agree with all of you. The most common thing so far is to be kind. Everyone has to believe in something, whether it's a higher being or just the end! We all have our own vision and that is what make's us who we are.

As for me, yeah... I believe

:)

250EXstud

01-09-2004, 04:12 PM

THis has been really a nice thread. No one really slamming eachother. I believe in God and that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and I have accepted him as my Savior. I have been highly educated in the Bible so if anyone has any question please feel free to ask. God has made a huge difference in my life and is waiting to do something in yours if you let Him. And also don't worry I am not one of those biblethumping type that are not open to others believes.

AlaskaSpeed

01-09-2004, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by Pappy
life after death? yes..no...

no particulair reason for me thinking of this but it wont leave my head tonight:huh

what yall think:confused:

I believe there is indeed life after death. The Bible spells it all out very clearly......JIM

D11NR

01-09-2004, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Pappy
life after death? yes..no...

no particulair reason for me thinking of this but it wont leave my head tonight:huh

what yall think:confused:
atleast your thinking about it:) I do believe in it, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain from it.

wilkin250r

01-09-2004, 04:49 PM

The thing I find MOST amazing is the amount of people that don't believe in God, but they believe in ghosts, reincarnation, and/or karma. :huh

How can you believe in the concept of a soul, like a ghost, but not believe in God?

Do you honestly believe that you will come back as a fish?

I'll admit, the idea of karma is pretty nice, the wicked getting punished for their deeds. But how can you possibly believe in karma without a higher power overseeing all of it?

310Rduner

01-09-2004, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by JOEX
LOL, I knew you'd want more:p

I'm not a very articulate speaker/writer.....

You have to have faith to belive in the unknown, something I lack in very much.

This may be a bit off the wall ....... I look at it like sleeping, you don't know you have been asleep until you wake up. When you die you don't wake up, end of story.

I do keep that sliver of a possibility open but for the most part it's over.

Joe

Exactly how I see it lol. My standard response to people asking what it might be like after death is the question "What was life like for you before you were born?"

I deffinately think that it would be a great thing. I am not completely closed to the idea of a God.. but I won't believe in it til if/when I meet the man.

Wilkin brought up ghosts/spirits which is deffinately something I find quite interesting. I would believe it if I saw it, or had an experience with it.. but until then.. i'm just neutral. I would actually like it very much to have one of those experiences some say they have... just cause when it happens to you personally there could be no doubt.. and if i did have an experience with a spirit then I would take it as a sign that there is an afterlife of sorts, but not necesarrily the one portrayed by the bible. An experience would be quantitative.. and something tangible.. where as the proof of God is still something that can't be answered til death.

Not exactly very eloquent, but I hope it got my points across.

redrunner

01-09-2004, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by js52589
I think that is a very good point, that maybe god is just "made up" so that we have something to live for, and a reason to be a good person, hope that their is something else to come, and that living a good life is time well spent.

I would agree, you try to live a good life (ie. life is short) you try to respect others and treat people as they treat you(ie. don't get taken advantage of). If you can look yourself in the mirror at night with a clear conscious I don't think anyone or anything can judge you (ie. A hypocryt of any kind). No matter what your faith or beliefs are be a good citizen and teach your children right from wrong (ie. moral standards/PS we all know what they are).
Remember that things can always be worse as you look across that greener grass, someone is worse off. If you can you will help them and yourself.

spincr4hire

01-09-2004, 06:09 PM

I hope so, this life is pretty sucky for the most part..
but if their aint hummers in heaven, I don't wanna go.

Atreyu

01-09-2004, 06:10 PM

Nope...used to be religious...then I got a little older and started thinking on my own...until I see some proof..I'll stay atheist. Granted, it is good for people to have a belief system, but my belief system is having no beliefs. Don't know if that makes sense or not but oh well. Like someone said already, to each his own.

Samson

01-09-2004, 07:23 PM

Think about this. God choosing to not exercise His will in your life is the same as you choosing not to exercise belief in God. You could, you just don’t. Both are a lack of action. So, how can you complain against God for not moving according to your desire, when you choose to not move at all in belief of Him?

"If any man thirsts, let him come unto me and drink." --John 7:37

Doesn't say he'll come to you, does it?

cudaman

01-09-2004, 07:36 PM

i definetely believe. my beliefs are of my own and not my parents. but i am not livin life like im supposed to right now, im getting some different expeinces that i was curious about. so i dont really go to church cause i dont want to be hypnocritical. its kinda hard to explain. anyway, i will straighted up at some point and get back on track. idk if this is a good or bad thing that im doing but w/e.

Max400

01-09-2004, 08:22 PM

BUT I do belive that god does exsit but yet I also belive in the idea of evolution.

If the evolution theroy is correct and we came from Apes! then tell me why we can go see apes at the zoo?????

How decided that one ape would evole and the other would stay as an Ape to entertain us at the Zoo.....that alone puts a hole in the Darwin theroy! J.M.O.:)

Gillbilly

01-09-2004, 08:47 PM

I hope there is something better after Im gone ,I hope for my many friends and reletives that the s**t they put up with here got them some happiness now that they are gone.As for proof,look around open your eyes its all around.I mean the feeling you get soarin over a huge double or just cruzin the trails.what about all those close calls machine wrapped around atree or 120mph crotch rocket slide?Is there a GOD dont ask me but I sure as hell hope so.

Samson

01-09-2004, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by js52589
well the first ape tribe had a fight, some apes went to the jungle and stayed apes, the others who went to the city had to evolve to run the place :o

To the city or the White House?

Current term excluded, of course! ;)

z400ACDC

01-09-2004, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by quaddict53
I believe in Heaven, and God, and especially that His son Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins....I go to church, I give them some money...ALMOST anything they do with it is better than wasting it on a material item for me....and I'm really glad to hear that so many of you try to live your life by treating people well and like you would like to be treated....i think whether you are Christian or not, the world would be a better place if all were like you....BUT, good works do not get you into Heaven....the only thing that can get you past the pearly gates is a true belief that Jesus was God's son and that he died for our sins....if you truly believe that, then you should have no problem doing what God asks of you...think about it, he is saving you from an eternal sleep and is letting you go to Heaven where you can ride forever....I would do anything for him if he is willing to do that for me....

JMO:)
AMEN!:) I hope all of you that say you are not a believer will keep a open mind!

sparky450AR

01-09-2004, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by Samson
So which came first? The chicken or the egg?

Seriously! Think about it. Evolution is an extremely flawed theory folks. AND if you don’t believe in creation, that’s your alternative. Some scientist wants you to believe that nature can mix mud under the right conditions and create a living organism. Ah, but not JUST a living organism, but one that is also capable of reproduction. AND then there is Darwin’s theory. His entire theory is based on varying physical characteristics of the same species of animal associated with different regions. Prime example…people. Asians and Africans look different then the typical European. So we evolved different right? OK, then why do we have basically the same features? We all have 2 arms, legs, eyes, ears. (I’ll get to why we have different hair/skin colors in a second.) Seems to me that there would be no need for a missing link, because evolution should be a constant. After all it happened over billions of years, right? Not overnight? Don’t see any ape-men. And what about mutations? Yep we have them. Sometimes it’s called cancer. But your kids will not develop wings, or a beak, or hooves. I promise! I can’t believe people buy into that crap. Well, if it’s not evolution, then what’s up?

Look, I have brown hair. My kids have blonde. We don’t look alike. Evolution? NOOOooooo! GENETICS! Species are limited by there genetic makeup. Too bad Darwin never had my high school biology course. Who sets the genetic makeup? GOD!

I think most atheists are scared by the fact that they are responsible to the Higher Being. People today have a “me” complex. No reason to be scared. Life is about preparation, folks. Live, laugh and learn, but don’t ever think you are alone.

You say God doesn’t feel real in your life? Yet you won’t even put in the smallest effort to create a relationship with him? Go figure.

thank you!

Glamis400ex

01-09-2004, 10:11 PM

I went to private school for 7 years growing up and once I got into 7th grade, I haven't been back. No reason really, I just think religion is for people who lack direction in life.

I believe the bible is a bunch of hooey personally, it's been translated so many times and each time it looses a piece. Plus there's too many contradictions from evolution to creation-ism. There is no mention of dinosaurs in the bible, but everyone on the planet earth would not disagree that they DID exist.

Just my thought, if it makes you feel better thinking theres something else out there.....knock yourself out.

Glamis

VIC

01-09-2004, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by Pappy
life after death? yes..no...

no particulair reason for me thinking of this but it wont leave my head tonight:huh

what yall think:confused:

I'll let you know pappy when/if I get there.

Martin Blair

01-09-2004, 11:17 PM

yes but not like is in the bibile i think you live on a place similar to earth, maybe im crazy that why i dont share:blah:

Max400

01-09-2004, 11:17 PM

There is no mention of dinosaurs in the bible, but everyone on the planet earth would not disagree that they DID exist.

Does the bible name every kind of animal that is or was alive? NO!! I dosn't mention Kangaroos either! :confused:

Pvt. Maggot

01-09-2004, 11:28 PM

i don't believe in heaven..or hell..or god or jesus...but i think about it this way....we are born...and live all this time...and work and such..for what?...yeah our life may be great while were here...but there has to be a reason..its just stupid ..all your doing is living to die...just how it would all work out wouldn't make sense..maybe when we die there is somewhere...and they have a list of everything we have done good and bad..and if we have more good then bad then the beer flows and the women run wild...hah...nope...i think we just die and rot in the ground...but i guess we never really will know till the time comes eh? :)

member

01-09-2004, 11:47 PM

we will all find out the answer to this topic one day huh?

Chef

01-10-2004, 12:06 AM

I dont know if this has already been said in this thread, because I really didnt read it all, just kind of skimmed through it. I am also a very non-religous person. I have never been in a church for any reason, whether it was a wedding, a funeral, or to worship. But I do believe that there is a heaven/hell. I dont think they are just places that are the same for everyone though. I think that heaven would be whatever that certain person wants it to be the most, whether thats just riding forever, a big ***** party, or just peace and quiet. For me, the ideal heaven would be me, and one girl that I know very well and really care about. (Tommy knows who I'm talking about I think) That would be all I would need. Obviously, that could get boring, but if it could only be me and one other thing, that would be what I would choose. Hell would be either the one thing you hate the most, repeated over and over and over, or the one thing you are most scared of, scaring you over and over and over for eternity. Hopefully some of you share these same thoughts, but if you dont, well its really not that big a deal!

I dont know if this is the idea that is illustrated in the bible or not, as I have never even picked up a bible I dont think, but thats how I think it is.

redroost85

01-10-2004, 08:20 AM

I have only read a few posts on this topic and thought I might share my view too. I beleive very strongly that there is some version of life after death, whether spiritually or in a physical body I am not quite sure....but I am not sure that it really matters. I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ with all of my heart, soul, and mind. My life has changed and continues to change for the better since giving my life over to him. Do I still have problems, of course. Do I still do stupid things, naturally. But, I am trying to limit thise types of things with His help.

I think about it in this way. We spend our whole lives trying to entertain ourselves in some fashion. And in the end we will have nothing to show for it. I belive in giving my life up for a greater purpose than myself. It gives me meaning and purpose to all I do. Life is about relationships, not material things. Am I guilty, I think a little bit. It is hard to put aside our human nature when that is all that surrounds us daily.

All I know is that my life is not about me, it is about the Lord who has given us all life. The time spent on earth is for us to show others the love of Jesus Christ, not turn them away.

If you have read this, I thank you and pray that you all find what you're looking for. Now, maybe we can all ride now...I am sure that we can agree on that, lol!:)

Pappy

01-10-2004, 08:29 AM

well its interesting to see the replies:) thank you

i always considered that if you lead a good full life on earth you would be remembered after your death....hopefully in a positive way. even if there isnt heaven or hell id like to die atleast thinking id be heading to a better place.

think of this also....

if jesus was just a fisherman/carpenter that had a message he wanted to get out....how do you think he did:p i mean if a guy influenced the world 2000 years ago and here we sit today ...2000 years later...discussing him on the internet seperated by countless miles and time id have to say thats a pretty powerful guy.

and what if you decided to try and send the exact same messages he did today. you'd be handed a dollar and passed by the majority of people that ask for his salvation? kinda ironic.

im not a bible thumper but i sure would like there to be something else.

i geuss my thinking on this wasnt at first about heaven or hell....just more of the supernatural but its interesting on how it leads back to other things

Samson

01-10-2004, 08:55 AM

Lord, Liar, or Lunatic?

When I discuss this with most Jewish people, it's interesting how they respond. They usually tell me that Jesus was a moral, upright, religious leader, a good man, or some kind of prophet. I then share with them the claims Jesus made about himself and then the material in this chapter on the trilemma (liar, lunatic, or Lord). When I ask if they believe Jesus was a liar, there is a sharp "No!" Then I ask, "Do you believe he was a lunatic?" The reply is "Of course not." "Do you believe he is God?" Before I can get a breath in edgewise, there is a resounding "Absolutely not." Yet one has only so many choices.
The issue with these three alternatives is not which is possible, for it is obvious that all three are possible. But rather, the question is "Which is more possible?" Who you decide Jesus Christ is must not be an idle intellectual exercise. You cannot put him on the shelf as a great moral teacher. That is not a valid option. He is either a liar, a lunatic, or Lord and God. You must make a choice. "But," as the Apostle John wrote, "these have been written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and"--more important--"that believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:31).

Was He a Liar?
If, when Jesus made his claims, he knew that he was not God, then he was lying and deliberately deceiving his followers. But if he was a liar, then he was also a hypocrite because he told others to be honest, whatever the cost, while he himself taught and lived a colossal lie. More than that, he was a demon, because he told others to trust him for their eternal destiny. If he couldn't back up his claims and knew it, then he was unspeakably evil. Last, he would also be a fool because it was his claims to being God that led to his crucifixion.

Was He a Lunatic?
If it is inconceivable for Jesus to be a liar, then couldn't he actually have thought himself to be God, but been mistaken? After all, it's possible to be both sincere and wrong. But we must remember that for someone to think himself God, especially in a fiercely monotheistic culture, and then to tell others that their eternal destiny depended on believing in him, is no slight flight of fantasy but the thoughts of a lunatic in the fullest sense. Was Jesus Christ such a person?
Someone who believes he is God sounds like someone today believing himself Napoleon. He would be deluded and self-deceived, and probably he would be locked up so he wouldn't hurt himself or anyone else. Yet in Jesus we don't observe the abnormalities and imbalance that usually go along with being deranged. His poise and composure would certainly be amazing if he were insane.

Was He Lord?
I cannot personally conclude that Jesus was a liar or a lunatic. The only other alternative is that he was the Christ, the Son of God, as he claimed.

-by Josh McDowell

CHAR250R

01-10-2004, 08:40 PM

I HOPE SO!!!!!! I'm looking forward to riding in Heaven, or the other place. :blah:

Honda4trax250x

01-10-2004, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by member
we will all find out the answer to this topic one day huh?

no not me, im immortal

:blah:

300exQuadracer

01-10-2004, 09:00 PM

kx515

01-10-2004, 09:44 PM

I like this thread. Well I for one believe in God/Heaven and Love him very much!! After reading the different post something told me to express my beliefs. I have not been to church in a long time. I always find and excuse not to go. I can't quote anything out of the bible which is bad IMO.
You know I spend alot of time trying to be better at what I do for a living (Safety Engineer) and very little time praying or just talking with God which is kinda scary!!! since Heaven is forever and life here on earth is so short. It seems as if I only go to him/her when I need or want something. Like I said eariler, I can't quote anything out of the bible but I do believe it does say something about expressing your love in god or your belief in him/her to other (public/internet or what ever) and he will not deny your name in the good book or something to that effect. I don't try and talk to others about God or heaven but I do believe in God and just thought everyone should know. It's as if something was telling me to write this. Kinda weird because if you notice under my user name I don't post alot and I have been a member here for a while.

Anyway that's my spill. Jeremy

Baley69

01-10-2004, 10:46 PM

Good topic pappy, and its nice to see a civil thread.

I was raised in a catholic family, attended catholic schools till highschool and was a strong beliver until I lost my Mom 2 thanksgivings ago. She had very strong beliefs in god and the church, and was very much involved in the church and even sang for the church every Sunday. She was the most loving person I had ever met or seen and I am still very lost in my beliefs since she passed. I am however getting married in the church I was raised around, and I will raise my children the way I was raised.

I guess the best way to describe it for me is I am confused as to why that happend to such a good person, and I am still trying to figure out if anyone is looking after us. Hopefully one day I'll sort it all out.

flyin#5

01-11-2004, 12:11 AM

dont really know.... really, i dont care. there isnt a damn thing i can do to change what happens anyways. i dont think there is a heaven/hell. i think you just "sleep" and you are no more.... id like to think there is more out there.... but i doubt it. i think its sick that we have to sit here and live the way others tell us to... when we only have so much time to do what WE want. our government says our contry is free, i say thats bull, i cant even take a $h!t when i want to at school.... i swear once you step into school they throw your rights out the door... they can come around with the drug dog any f'ing time they want... but if a cop pulls you over on the side of the road, he cant check your car unless he has a search warrent, or you say its ok. i could go on about laws forever...

JD400exrider

01-11-2004, 12:14 AM

Originally posted by Baley69
Good topic pappy, and its nice to see a civil thread.

I was raised in a catholic family, attended catholic schools till highschool and was a strong beliver until I lost my Mom 2 thanksgivings ago. She had very strong beliefs in god and the church, and was very much involved in the church and even sang for the church every Sunday. She was the most loving person I had ever met or seen and I am still very lost in my beliefs since she passed. I am however getting married in the church I was raised around, and I will raise my children the way I was raised.

I guess the best way to describe it for me is I am confused as to why that happend to such a good person, and I am still trying to figure out if anyone is looking after us. Hopefully one day I'll sort it all out.

I am sorry to here about the loss of your mother. It is hard to understand why a good christian person like your mother is taken from her family and this life. You can be assured that your mother is up in heaven looking down on you and your family and she is at peace with the lord. Keep the Faith.

Greg Z

01-11-2004, 02:25 AM

im not vbery relgious i vist the church during EASTER and thats about it.

Yes i do think theres a life after death but like no heaven or hell I beleive that we will be reincarnated

CBRSLIDER

01-11-2004, 04:52 AM

life after death? YES! Very stong catholic beliefs. Am i going to sit and debate it with people that I do not know. Not a chance.

Ray

300exQuadracer

01-11-2004, 09:41 AM

i`m gonna throw somethin else in here
everyone that has faith we may all have diffrent beliefs, but we al only have one god am i right

Samson

01-11-2004, 09:44 AM

Originally posted by Baley69
was a strong beliver until I lost my Mom 2 thanksgivings ago...am confused as to why that happend to such a good person, and I am still trying to figure out if anyone is looking after us. Hopefully one day I'll sort it all out.

I am sorry for your loss. Don't know that this will help, but I do find comfort in knowing that I will be with them again someday.

THE BAD NEWS
A lot of people will argue whether or not the bible is literal or not. If everything is to be taken literal, then why did Christ teach in parables? Anyway, think back to Genesis, the beginning. Apple or no apple, it doesn’t really matter. The point gets across.

After Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit, they incurred a curse from God. Basically, I think of it as a father teaching his children a lesson for their rebellion. Truth is, we weren’t created to die. We brought it on ourselves.

Genesis 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

I think I’d rather have had a spanking! But, I guess it’s better than the alternative. He could have wiped them out and we’d have never existed.

THE GOOD NEWS
After the rapture, God will establish a new order.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Sounds like a pretty nice place!

wilkin250r

01-11-2004, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by 300exQuadracer
everyone that has faith we may all have diffrent beliefs, but we al only have one god am i right

What about Budda? Or Allah?

member

01-11-2004, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
What about Budda? Or Allah?

ok pay attention in social studies!! alright buddism (how ever you spell it... guess i need to pay attenition in english) was not orginally made up to be a religion,.. it was a man that ceated a way of living in which peace and love blah blah blah was a goal yea well alot of people started to like this idea and since it changed so many people's lives they looked at budda as a god because of how much he helped them ...geez

redroost85

01-11-2004, 01:53 PM

I think this is great that all you guys can talk abou this subject because I think it is very important. I think is also important to be able to disagree peaceably.

I think most people get turned off of church and/or the people inside because they have had a bad experience. That is unfortunate to judge the whole by the actions of a few. Some say they are too many hypocrites in church, indeed there may be. But, I also know that there are hypocrites at my job. Does that mean I will not go to work? Of course not.

Any time people are involved with anything, sin is sure to follow. We are all human, some of us realize that now and some will realize it later. Do I think I am better than anyone else? Heck no! I go to church because I need help. The church is for sinners, regardless of what many think. I am trying to live my life for something that is greater than myself because my life is not about me, it is about Him who has come before me. No amount of material wealth can satisfy that hunger. I just want to show to others the love that has been shown to me.

May you all find what you are looking for. I can attest that God is real and can do wonderful things. God allows all things to happen for a reason, most times we cannot see that. I am living proof of God's grace and mercy. I used to be a complete dirtbag, now I am a dirtbag who is trying to get things right.:)