All Wnyoa Members Please Look!!!!

[gizmocor]

To All WNYOA members please give comment on my suggestions. If you know anyone else that has a different opinion or suggestions PM me there em or #. Ray mentioned that I really wasn't representing all the views of the riders, so I just wanted to hear your comments. If you post a reply please specify what class you race and that you are a WNYOA member. I urge everyone to get in contact with one of the rider reps before the banquet.
Thanks, Cory
What I am suggesting is a class restructuring for the Quads. The first goal is to get rid of the 4stk/2stk splits in the B and C classes. With the new 4 strokes out, there isn't any major advantage to running a 2stk or 4 they are pretty much comparable these days. There are currently 10 classes in the WNYOA series and we are averaging around 66 riders per race (series and day). If you compare that to like the GNCC quad races, there are 11 classes for over 250 plus riders on average. I think people got a little class crazy in the past few years. Where what we really needed was a ref to put people in there respective classes, what we got were new classes to suit the needs of one or two riders. That takes us down to 8 classes. I also don't feel there is a n! eed for the Vet class. Riders should compete on there ability level, not there age. We don't have enough riders to justify age classes. I am suggesting eliminating the Vet B class and placing those riders in the B and C classes. Also eliminating the Vet A class. What the Vet A class became over the past 2 years was a place for promoted A riders to dodge going to Pro. But, what happens to the A riders that can't run the Pro pace that are under 30?? Anyway the new class structure I am suggesting is as follows (for Quad only):
Quad Pro
Quad Pro-Am
Quad A
Quad B
Quad C
Utility
Womens
Quad B and C would work just like they do now. If the ref feels a riders is to fast they are promoted. But you have to let someone who feels there not competitve move back as well. Quad A works the same way as the lower classes but you can't be promoted out mid season. Once a rider is promoted out of the A class they have the option of moving to Pro or Pro-Am. Pro-Am will run for plaques and Pro for Money. This will allow those '03 Vet A riders who weren't really fast enough for Pro to run the Pro-Am. Pro-Am could also be a class that doesn't have to be earned, so the lower level riders get an idea of what it is like to be up front. There seemed to be 2 levels in the Pro class last year. Gerges, Condon, Myself, Dukerich, Barrett, Nolder, etc......vs. like Tibbals,White,Meltz and guys like Chamberlain and Janowski who dropped to Vet. I hate to mention specific names, cause I don't want to po! int out this guy is better than that one and so forth, but some of the riders that were promoted out of A in the last few years and even this year are not going to be able to hang with the Pace of Pro. I would just like for them to have the option of racing a different class without putting it to the older guys in the Vet class. I am not saying the riders who were promoted didn't deserve to be, but they are kinda stuck between Pro and A right now. I only suggest this new class because these riders don't belong in A anymore but aren't at Pro level right now. Maybe eventually they will get there and move back up, but everyone should have a class they can be competetive in. This also applies to X pro's who have been out of the series for a while, if they come back they can run the Pro-Am instead of Pro.
Hopefully you will take this into consideration as I think it will make the WNYOA Quad events much more enjoyable for everyone. The difficult part of what I am suggesting is placing the Vet riders (who aren't promoted A riders) into respective classes. But most of the Vet B guys should be happy in C class and the Vet A in B class. This will allow for more riders per class and should increase series participation. If a rider has a bad day they may count 10th place points vs the worst you can do being like 5th. I am hoping this will prevent some of the dropping of attendance in the quads late in the season as well. Even if riders are competing for 8th they are going to earn it and feel good about it instead of just being handed a last place class trophy that could be 5th. And it will make it more prestigous to win a class.
Like I said, I know I haven't been the best rep, but I do plan on doing a lot more races next year whether I am voted quad rep again or not. I have been involved with this series for a long time and I only want to see things get bigger and better for everyone.I think these changes will cause some controversy, but I would be happy to explain the reasoning behind it to everyone and work with the ref to put people in their classes. I am proud to be from the NY series when we head out to the Nationals and speak very highly off it to everyone we talk with. I hope one day the series does get to the point where we need 10 classes, but I don't think we are there yet.

[MEL]

cory,
what would happen, with the new class structure, when we have 30 - 40 C riders at the beginning of the year? like at the spring van etten race 2 years ago.
i can see the need to restructure the classes, but i don't think doing away with all the vet classes is going to help. i don't care what class i race, in fact i would have placed alot better at 3 of the 4 races this year if i rode A verses vet A. but, putting guys from the vet b class to the c class isn't going the help with attendance. i think we'll lose over half the vet b class.
combining the 2 strokes and 4 strokes in the B and C classes is a way to cut down on classes. i'll agree theres no need to seperate them anymore.
and theres a need to make a class between pro and A. i think people have been dropping back from pro to vet A because they can't keep up with the rest of the pro class. but you have that no matter what or where you race. maybe wnyoa should try something else this year. do you know who else is going to be a quad rep this year?
its good to hear that your trying to promote the wnyoa series at the nationals. the more riders we get the better.
chris pratt
wnyoa vet a #52

[660bigdaddy]

i agree w/ the class setup. like the idea of pro, pro-am. but you still need a vet class. maybe raise the age to 35.
i was planning on running in the front row this year. didn't care if i got my butt handed to me. i've had enough of fighting through the A class at every race. the vet A guys had better overalls than the A. we should of started in front of them. jmo.
the other rep is gary. he took allens spot at about mid season . i know i could of used some representation this year. like kings ferry..:D
btw, i sold the rappy !!

[MEL]

Originally posted by 660bigdaddy
i've had enough of fighting through the A class at every race. the vet A guys had better overalls than the A. we should of started in front of them. jmo.


i agree, when only 1 A rider beats almost all the vet class, we should have been starting in front of them.

[660bigdaddy]

schedule is posted. 16 races this year and no rew... :(

[MEL]

wasn't up an hour ago! no rew? that ain't right. i thought it was called Western New York Offroad Association, not Central New York!

[gizmocor]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I spoke with Ray a couple of times today and there were a lot of things that I was overlooking when I thought that all up. I expect there won't be a 2stk/4stk class seperation next year, but I don't see any of the rest of that stuff happening. Ray is an excellent President for our series and he made a lot of good contrasting points against my ideas. I still think something needs to be done in the future but it will most likely need to happen a little at a time. The main point is that the biggest problem with the classes is in the C classes where there are simply too many riders and it is a safety concern and forcing novice riders into B classes isn't the solution either. I compared the schedule with the GNCC and it looks like there are 10 unconflicted dates, so with 1 or 2 back to backs I hope to do the series again next year.
Wayne-verycool that your moving up. We rode some laps together at Taylortown and believe me I wasn't holding back when you were letting me by. I think you'll do well. I suppose if more guys followed your example there wouldn't be the blowouts in AA every race. There would be alot more depth to the field and maybe it would keep more of those A riders from dropping to Vet. Hopefully it all works itself out.
I see that Frozen Ocean is back on the Schedule!!! Very Cool! bummer about Rew:( :( :(

[gizmocor]

There r actually 4 reps as of now. Myself, Ackerman, Chamberlain, and Seth. The reps for next year is whomever you guys vote for at the banquet.

??ME??:D :D :D :D :D ::D :D

[CBRSLIDER]

Cory,

You made some very valid points in your original statment. I raced the 4st b class and feel the there is no longer a need for a 4st/2st designation. Many times during the season, the guys in my class would catch up to the 2st b guys and would be held up for quite awhile trying to get around them. Since some of these guys could no longer race the small 2st c class since they were bumped to 2st b when they just weren't ready for it yet. The class could easily be made just a B class. Just as the A class is not divided. I agree that there needs to be step between the A and AA class. It appeared that the Vet A class just turned into a dumping ground for guys that didn't feel that they could make it in the AA class yet.

I agree with Chris and Wayne, when they say that we still need the Vet classes, but there has to be some better way to monitor the progress and promotions to these classes. I think that the age should be jumped to 35. I had contemplated the move to vet b at the beginning of the season but am glad that I didn't do it. It would have been wrong on my part and would of only been sandbagging by me. We need to work on the placement of individuals into the classes where their skill level is equivalent to that of the rest class, not just because they meet the age requirement.

We need to have more opportunities as the season progresses to move as needed to different classes. We have had guys that started the season in the wrong classes and were not allowed to move to the class of their choice. There were two occassions last season where guys were told that they did not earn the right to move to higher classes, when they had shown more skill in their class and the ability to run in a higher class by their overalls.

The not being allowed to move backwards is not right either. There are too many guys that think that they are great racers when they are new and sign up for the wrong class and end up being punished for it. They need to have the opportunity to move to the class that best suites their current level. This may actually be an area where the C class could be restructured. The C class, as you stated, needs some help. I feel that there is a serious safety issue when there are over 25+ guys battling it out in the first turn as beginners. I feel that there may need to be a first year racer and then a C class. The first year racer class being just like that of the GNCC's. And the opportunity for the racer to move to the C class if they want or a C class racer to move back if they put themselves in the wrong class initially. They should not race for a class championship either. The referee or reps then could monitor the progress of the guys winning or placing well in the first year racer class and move them accordingly.

I feel that there is definately a need to put more attention on the placement of the riders in classes where they are at the same level of the rest of the class. I think that the promotions during the season are taking too long and need to be addressed sooner.

I feel that the quad races are a side show in the eyes of the promoters and that needs to be changed. I think that there needs to better representation on the part of the quad guys. I think that there were a couple times last year that things happened that were thrown in the laps of the promoters that the reps could have assisted with. The first instance that I can remember would have been the Death Valley trail reroute and finish, then the controversey at King's Ferry. I'm not dogging the reps but alot of people haven't been using the resources they have in their reps because most don't know what exactly they, the reps, can do for them.

I, just as you, feel that the wnyoa series is a great series, but is having some growing pains. I think that there needs to be some changes but change is not always welcome. I wish that all those involved were as easy to get along with and approach as Ray and his wife. They are both very great people and assets to the series.

Unfortunately my racing career will be put on hold for awhile and I will not be at many if any races this year. BUT I will be constantly thinking about how things are going at the races. The series is a great series and I wish those involved the best of luck. I raced for two seasons and met some great people, whom I will miss racing with. Heck there must have been something special about the series for me to drive on average 3 hours one way to a race and tops of 5+ hours one way to go to thunder ridge. The series has some wonderful people giving every effort they can to make it a success and I say thanks to all of them. I do have a problem with the shift toward the center part of NY that really doesn't match the series name. Western has moved more central and further away for me. With the elimination of Rew my closest race is now 2 hours to the closest one. OUCH! But the best of luck to those racing this season.

See everyone at the banquet and remember to fill out the surveys as honestly as possible. I know there are some issues that I will be mentioning and some promoters that I will be supporting and some that I won't. We the quad racers need to make our voices heard.

Good night.

Ray
WNYOA 4st B #432

[MEL]

ray brought up a good point. why not have a first year class or even a day rider class. that would thin out the C class and make a place for the guys who only get to run 2-3 races. they could even make the first row for the top 10 overall in the series like at the gnccs. that would leave room for some B riders to move in to A class and still be competive, and making room in the B class for the faster C riders.
any thing that they try will be ok with me. they'll never know if they don't try. if it doesn't work in the first couple races they can always go back to how it was.
chris

[gizmocor]

It seemed when talking with Ray that the big concern was with the C class. There are some issues with the upper level classes but the fact that some people are going to sandbag is pretty hard to avoid and isn't a huge concern of the series. They are looking first at the safety of the riders and the expansion of the series. More classes equal more options which in the end is more appealling for a greater genre of racers to come to the races.

Creating a First year racer class may be a good solution. They would have to consider how many of those guys in the C class actually are in there first year. They aren't going to tolerate 40-50 riders in one line next year so I am sure they will look at all C riders information in making a decision on how to split them.

I liked the idea of creating a class between A and AA but there aren't enough riders to justify that, and if there is it is only going to take away most of the Vet A riders. It looks like that class is going to be Vet A. I will suggest moving that to the 2nd line. I would rather see a lot of those guys move back to AA and have like 2 classes in 1 but nobody wants to race for 2nd and I am sure they won't go. So for now it looks like Vet is going to be that Pro-Am class I was hoping for. You old guys are just to fast!!!!! Eventually if the series keeps growing some of these problems will work themselves out as more competition moves into each class. Then we can justify adding new classes, but for now it looks like it is best to just know that the Vet class is going to be fast consider that when chosing to ride A or VetA.

[660bigdaddy]

my idea..
row 1 pro
row 2 pro am
row 3 A
row 4 vet plus 35
row 5 B
row 6 C 16-25
row 7 C 26+
row 8 utility/women
top 7 in series have to run pro
if you finished in a top 10 overall or finished 8th to 14th in series, can run pro am.
everyone else falls into the other classes.
guys won't sand bag in vet if it's moved further back...
jmo

[CBRSLIDER]

guys won't sand bag in vet if it's moved further back...

Does that mean that you will finally move up?:D Just kidding.

Unfortunately Cory you are right. There will be sandbagging. I have seen it in both our series and in the nationals. Oh well I guess it's part of the game. I see how its not a concern of the series, so it looks like we, the racers, will have to take care of it on our own.

I like the idea of the first year racers class and the promotion of C class riders down to the top 5 in the c class. When I got promoted from the C class last year I was the 5th place guy but they did not promote the 4th place guy, which pissed him off so he stayed in the C class. I think that the promotions need to be worked on. Whether by the series or our reps.

Cory, I appreciate your concern and approach that you are taking on these matters. You will be receiving my vote at the banquet.

As I stated in my other rambling post, I think that there are some issues that need to be dealt with dealing with promoters. I don't know any other way to deal with it other than to make our concerns known at the banquet. We need to support those that really put on a quality race for not only the bikes but the quads. We then need to make it known that we, the quad racers, are not happy with how we are treated by other promoters. Alot of people want to just say that we shouldn't cause a rif between the racers and promoters, but these people also have to remember that these promoters make ALOT of money off of us. I understand that there is alot of work put into the race, but the profits are pretty good for them.

I'll end my ramblings here.

Ray

wnyoa 4st b #432

[gizmocor]

Ray,
I know there is some favortism towards the bikes in the series, but do you have any specific examples of what your talking about. Obviously Wayne wasn't to happy at King Ferry, but I wasn't there to see it and I don't know that that was a quad related incident as much as it was an occasion where they just had enough of the pit racing and they happened to make an example out of Wayne who didn't really deserve it.

Wayne,
I feel like after watching the series for 4-5 races I can pretty much put everyone in a class and make for some seriously competetive racing. But aside from that fact that it is totally not fair to anybody, where do you see any racing where the entire class is competetive? From the Pro Supercross to our series there are always going to be people in classes that can't keep up. I like your idea alot, but to change anything it is going to need to be based on facts from throughout the year. I have nothing in that dept. For next year hopefully they can move the Vet class up front, possibly add a Senior class and come up with a good way to split the C class in half. All of the other ideas will have to wait until we can hear from everybody and change things for the masses if it reflects the direction the series is headed. Probably be a good idea to have a forum like this where people can talk and express there thoughts.

Cory

[660bigdaddy]

But aside from that fact that it is totally not fair to anybody, where do you see any racing where the entire class is competetive?
????? i don't think i was saying that.
i v'e raced karts, drag raced, 3 wheelers. i've always been conpetative, but i've had my butt handed to me several times. it only wanted me to work harder. i understand racing. anyone that moves from a class because they can't win i think it is not right. this is my 3rd year. i know this year is going to be tough. more than likely i won't plaque or place at the wnyoa series. and will be dang hard to at the nationals. but my goal is to get faster. when i started out in this sport, i rode w/kevin nolder and he taught me a lot. he is fast and smooth. i wish i had his skills and my desires. his plate is very full now (new house, new baby) but i'm older and really think this sport wiil be the last form of racing i'll do.(i'll be broke when i'm done) so i want to try and be the best i can be. i'll be getting smoked this year, but hope to learn.

are you saying there will be no class changes this year?
wayne
btw, what happen at kings ferry was, i was in 1st gear going to put my quad on the line. only went 50 feet before a fellow rider stopped me to warn me and the ref runs up to me and screams " your otta here. threw 3 of us out. i never swore, yelled. very mature about it. taked to ray. he said to delay my start, start backwards. but the ref threatened to quit if ray overturned his decision.( not a rule at the gncc's) also mansfield cost me my first win on "fathers day", but that's the way it goes sometimes.
in this series you have volenteer course workers. at the nationals. they are paid and know what's going on. that re route would of never happened at the gncc's. section wasn't that bad. workers didn't control the situation.
see ya boys next week !

[421banshee]

Wow!!! This will be one interesting meeting on Sat.!! I could go on and on about the 'Sandbagging', not being competitive in the AA class(seems that in several races I beat half the AA class from two rows back), but I'll save that for the meeting.
I chose to go VET A because I didn't want the PRESSURE that being in the AA class puts on you mentally to do well every week. As it was, the Vet A class had four riders that always finished right together, and usually with top ten overall. Speaking for myself, I'm out there to HAVE FUN, If I do well, then that's even better.

[CBRSLIDER]

welcome to the site, seth. ya you guys should have an interesting meeting. good luck. see you guys at the banquet.

ray

[gizmocor]

Guys, I hope you don't get the wrong idea here. I wrote to Ray last week making some suggestions with the series. I was pretty much wrong in doing that because they were MY suggestions for the series. As rider reps we are suppose to bring your issues to the table not our own. So it is good to here from all of you and get your ideas, but without having spoken with more people it will be tough to make any major changes. Seth, I didn't mean to pick on anybody or point anyone out but I hope you can come to the meeting representing the riders more than personal concerns. I know I am going to have a difficult time with that seeing I wasn't even at most of the races. Hopefully with 4 reps at the meeting we can get across most of our points, but for next year I would really encourage you guys to vote for reps that can represent the entire series whether that is us our not. It might be a good idea to get a C rider invovled as a rep since that seems to be the biggest area of concern with the series.

[660bigdaddy]

has a time been set for the meeting on sat? welcome to the site seth. good to hear from ya.

[421banshee]

What's up Wayne???? How's that YFZ? I just realized tonight that you and I are in the wring forum. Is there a tunning fork forum anywhere around here for us yamaha guys?
How are you Cory? you'll have to forgive me if I rub people the wrong way, but its kind of second nature for me to try and push people's buttons.
As for the series, we really need at least a 'b' or a 'c' rider as a rep. I remember when I was a 'b' rider, I knew everybody in my class, but very few others. Now that I 've moved up, and new riders have come along, I find that I know nobody by name, but most by sight. For this reason a rider from their ranks as a rep would have everybody voice their opinion. Anybody out there feel like stepping up?

Also, what time do I have to show up Sat? I have a feeling that I won't be sleeping in.

[MEL]

seth, welcome. blue or red, it doesn't matter around here. i think having a rider rep from a b or c class would be great, but trying to find someone that has been around along enough to do the job is going to be tuff. most c riders move up to b if they stick around. but, having a b rider as rep would work. some guys have been racing our series for a couple years. or how about someone from vet b. a couple of those guys have been around for years and i think would do a good job. enjoy the banquett. chris

[gizmocor]

The meeting starts at 10AM.........And I don't think your on the wrong sight for being a yami rider. I think you'll see a lot of red people riding the tuning forks next year, including me.:D :D :D

[421banshee]

Really, good for you!!! Now I'm jealous!!!! I'm working on saving for a house this year, so as much as I would like a new machine, I'll have to wait a while. I think that I can get another year out of it......heck, some parts are already 17 years old!!!!

Also, I'VE ALWAYS known that they were the best, it's just taken the rest of the world of while to catch up!!!! (hard to argue with upwards of 75 hp!!!!helps them straight stretches get real short!!)

[660bigdaddy]

helps them straight stretches get real short!!)
no doubt. at vanetten,you were picking off 2 A riders in every field, and i was barely getting by one. that shee rips!:D plus it's purty good at throwing rocks:huh
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/p36aa3cefb93a3a63a73e59ba54089d4b/f9f20cc5.jpg

[660bigdaddy]

mel and big daddy
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/pca3b0b2072592c49c0b15df04c087968/f9f20cbf.jpg
412banshee and big daddy @ rausch creek
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid99/p4159ba6043d314d340f801d42e5ccddc/f9f20ccf.jpg

[MEL]

Originally posted by 421banshee
hard to argue with upwards of 75 hp!!!!

and i thought the reason i've been getting beat was my lack-of riding skills.:)

[BlasterRacer26]

Why arnt they racing the Palermo (Gears Farm) race this year??

[421banshee]

hey bigdaddy....I liked that photo alot, but now everyone that reads this will think i'm a dork for racing with headlights....
(when I use them for 'flash to pass'!!)

[MEL]

what all was discussed at the banquett? any pix?

[421banshee]

-----------------------------------------------------------
Why arnt they racing the Palermo (Gears Farm) race this year??
-----------------------------------------------------------


after our meeting Sat. morn, it may have had something to do with the 'bus jumping' that occurred last year. I wasn't there, and as entertaining asthat would have been, it's also not something that needs to happen at a quote "family event"..

The only other reason that could have contributed, it's that the AMA still doen't allow amphibious vehicle to run at sanctioned events...!!!!!!

Don't let the loss of that course dampen your spirits, We will be at Hoggsback Hill in Palmyra , Frozen Ocean again, plus a few new tracks that are new this year. I've been to Hoggsback Hill the past three years in a row, and it's always a good event.....

[421banshee]

officers were elected, or remained incumbent, we went over the fees structure for racing in our series, and left it alone because the increase in rider participation is generating the extra money needed to cover costs at this time.

The biggest dicussion was over whether or not series riders should be requiered to work an event during the year. this was actually approved, then overturned after much debate. I feel it's a good idea to do so, just to give everyone an idea of how much work is required to put on a quality event........

there was a whole bunch of other little stuff too, but i'd have to dig out the papers to remeber it all....

another biggie was no pit riding whatsoever.... You can go from your vehicle to the starting line before the race and backafter the end, but thats it... and make sure you have your helmet on whenever the machine is running, even though you may not be going anywhere....(extreme I think, but that's the way it is...)

[MEL]

no pit riding? if thats what they say, then fine with me. as long as the land owners are allowing us to race on their land, i'll be happy with what ever rules they come up with. lets face it, very few of us own enough land to hold our own events on, or even have a 5-6 mile practice track.
i'd be willing to work an event if we can have a couple more out here on the west coast. we all like to race infront of our home town, or even close to our home town, where friends and family can come watch. when theres only one event within 2 hours of me, i really don't want to work it.
as far as the geers farm, that has to be the rowdiest track in the series. 2 years ago, they were laying black marks in the road at 3 am. the racers that camped at the track wre a little up set that they didn't get any sleep.
wheres hoggsback hill? i thought we were racing at the motorcross track.

[421banshee]

I hear you there about the land.......

I realize it's hard to work the clostest one to home, especially when friends and family come to watch. Talk the promoter for the races near you.
The guy at the Rapture is always welcoming more help, and each track has different requirements about how much is required. some the day of the race, others more than 16 hours, etc.....

about the pit riding, if your having problems with your machine, eg 'jetting', then talk to the promoter about where you can clean it out. They might have a place for you to go and ride it properly and safely, as opposed to where they tell us to go when we pick our on spot!!!!

[MEL]

thanks for the info seth. i'll have to get in touch with the rapture or maybe the jasper event.

[gizmocor]

There are mostly a room full of promoters at the Operations meeting and a few rider reps. We got the decision overturned this year so no one has to work an event, but most of the promoters were for it. It was a very long discussion. It seems to me if people don't start helping out the promoters this year and minimize the complaining to the promoters it is going to happen next year. I guess this has been a discussion for years now, and it is getting more and more support every year.

I am personnaly not for it. Some of the promoters have over a hundred riders that belong to their clubs that sanction the events. They have a hard time pulling in 5 or 6 to help put on the race. It is my opinion that it is the promoters effort to put on the races and if they can't get there members to support it maybe they shouldn't have the race?! If someone doesn't want to work an event, and it is definetely harder for western new yorkers, they shouldn't be forced to. However, It seems if we can minimize the complaining to the promoters we may not need to. I felt like a lot of them were for it to make the riders experience the difficulty in putting on an event, and not as much for the help.

To another point that I got out of the meeting, everything within WNYOA is non-profit, meaning whatever the series makes off of us is given back to the riders, through the scanners, flyers, trophies, the banquet, etc.... Everyone within the series is totally volunteer and is dedicated their efforts just for the love of the sport. The promoters do make some money per event, but I don't think it is as much as people think it is. Anyway the point is I think we all just need to appreciate everything we have with this series, because it really is one of the best out there and there really are a lot of people giving up a lot of time and effort for very little to no money.

As far as rule changes:
-new Senior class was added
-2stk/4stk class were combined into 1
-C class was split into 2 seperate C classes called C1 and C2. They are 2 classes racing on the same ability level and will crown 2 different winners. What class you get put in is random placing from WNYOA. Rider 1 goes in C1 Rider 2 goes in C2 and so on.

Starting order:
-AA
-A
-Vet A
-Senior
-B
-VetB
-C1
-C2
-Womens
-Utility

Vet A was left behing A because a Vet A rider can not promote himself to AA. All riders wishing to move there way to the AA class must race the A class first and prove they are capable of running AA.

That was most of the quad changes anyway......

[MEL]

so, we still have 10 classes. and the vet a guys still have to start 3rd. and, in order for a vet a rider to race AA, he has to race a full year in A to be promoted. looks like its going to be a big A class this year.
whos the rider reps this year?

[gizmocor]

You don't have to race a full year in A. If you can show your fast enough for AA in the first few races you can ask to be moved up. I still need to talk to Ray about this one. I let you know when I know more. Here is the rule as stated in the WNYOA rules:

Advancement of “A” riders to “AA” is made from the top “A” riders, for both bikes and quads, from the prior season. “AA”, Vet “A” (quad and bike), Senior “A”, Super Senior, Masters and Women (quad and bike), and Utility riders are at the top of their respective skill level. The winners of the “A” age classes shall not be moved by WNYOA to the “AA “ class. Any bike or quad rider who has demonstrated the ability to be in the top 10% of the overall for (5) events may submit a written request to the WNYOA Hare Scramble Referee for promotion to the “AA” class. If a rider has not demonstrated the ability to be in the top 10% overall for (5) events, the WNYOA Hare Scramble Rider Representative and the WNYOA Hare Scramble Referee to rule on the request will review the written request. If there is a tie between the WNYOA Referee and the WNYOA Rider Representative, the WNYOA President will break the tie for a final decision. Movement to the higher class will result in forfeiture of the points earned from the lower class and the rider will not be able to move back to the lower class.

Seth and Gary are your reps for '04.....

[421banshee]

---------------------------------
“AA”, Vet “A” (quad and bike), Senior “A”, Super Senior, Masters and Women (quad and bike), and Utility riders are at the top of their respective skill level. The winners of the “A” age classes shall not be moved by WNYOA to the “AA “ class. Any bike or quad rider who has demonstrated the ability to be in the top 10% of the overall for (5) events may submit a written request to the WNYOA Hare Scramble Referee for promotion to the “AA” class.
----------------------------------

If I read that correctly, then did Ray misspeak on Sat morn.... I would take that paragraph to imply that as long as I'm in an 'A' class (vet A), and as long as I finished in the top 10%, (going to check) then there is no reason why I couldn't ask to go to 'AA'...........doesn that make sense???

[gizmocor]

I just EM'd him about that. He either needs to rewrite the rule there to match what he was saying on Sat. or let those Vet riders into AA if they want. It also doesn't address a rider that has been out of the series. I asked him to rewrite that to be more specific, let you know when I hear back.

[421banshee]

I couldn't get there anyway...Just finished looking through last years results....had three legitimate, "no problem" races, worked one, dnf two (one wreck), then limped to the finish line at two others.....

So I guess I've got to do it the old fasioned way and earn it!!! although last year was better than the year before with only 2 actuall finishes........(lets propose a toilet bowl trophy for next year....most DNF'd wins!!!!!) and thank you in advance for your silence BIG DADDY!!!

Let's hope the the new year brings better success, some properly tuned 'Tuning Forks', and a safe season for all of us in the series...

[660bigdaddy]

Let's hope the the new year brings better success, some properly tuned 'Tuning Forks', and a safe season for all of us in the series...
amen to that!:D
cory. if this is true, then i will qualify for AA. i had several finishes in the top 10%. finishing 6th in the top 25 last year. let me know if i can get in this way.
thanks

[gizmocor]

OK the rules on the AA class:

----------------------------------------

Advancement of “A” riders to “AA” is made from the top “A” riders, for both bikes and quads, from the prior season.

The winners of the “A” age classes shall not be moved by WNYOA to the “AA “ class.

“AA”, Vet “A” (quad and bike), Senior “A”, Super Senior, Masters and Women (quad and bike), and Utility riders are at the top of their respective skill level.

--------------------------------------

Those are the rules. There is a lot here left to interpretation and a lot of situations that are not addressed. I tried to get Ray to

Crewrite it or change it but a guess that isn't a big priority to the series. Everything you need to know is stated in the rules above, and the series holds true to them (for the most part). What the top rule doesn't say is "Advancement of "A" to "AA" is ONLY made from the top "A" riders. If anyone wants to know more about the AA rules just PM me, I don't want to list it here.......:rolleyes:

Wayne,
There are some exceptions made for AA, but since you weren't blowing away all the AA riders last year I would say your going to have to run A for at least a few races before you can move up. If your not blowing away the A class though, you'll probably have to run it the whole season before being promoted. Sorry..... I tried. If you need to know more about this PM me, I don't want to post anything deeper here.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Cory

[421banshee]

We'll try every angle possible, won't we Bigdaddy!!!!

BTW, think that you could send in a pair of RS tie rods for me? I've got some that are broken, but I've never bought them directly from an actual distributor........

I promise that they won't help me go any faster..............

[MEL]

i would think that since only one A rider placed higher than wayne in the top 25, and only two placed higher than seth, that they would have a good chance at riding AA.

[660bigdaddy]

BTW, think that you could send in a pair of RS tie rods for me? I've got some that are broken, but I've never bought them directly from an actual distributor........
seth, i bought mine through a guy i knew. and they covered them. they only replace the ends. rods are at you expense. give them a call first, then ship them out. they are super nice people to deal with. if you want, you can use my name and addy and ship them to me:D

[421banshee]

About the move...won't happen. has to be from the A class.

but all you young guys should pay attention to how us old guys will try to bend the rules to get ahead>!!!!!!l lol

[MEL]

so, are you going back to A class to prove your fast enough, or should i say reprove yourself. doesn't seem right, that once you move to a age class your stuck there.

[421banshee]

Yeah....it looks that way. I just hope that this year is successful. I'm hoping for at least 10 'good' races, meaning the machine doesn't let me done, and maybe throw in a couple of GNCC's for something fun to do.......