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View Full Version : A Arms on new 450R



Wolf 66
01-02-2004, 06:23 AM
Does anyone know if the A arms on the new 450R are the same size and geometry as on the 400EX. I am taking off my brand new Walsh Racecraft +3" A arms from my 400EX and putting my lonestar rec arms back on it. If the Walsh arms fit the new 450R then I will wait to sell them. If not they will be on ebay soon.:confused:

Wolf 66
01-02-2004, 02:41 PM
Typical Honda site, nobody interested in helping out a fellow Honda owner. I mean come on; out of 66 views, not 1 person has a clue to this question. Well I did look up the part #s and the pics look the same. I guess I will call my local dealer and see if the parts interchange. Thank you for all caring so much.:rolleyes:

Dave400ex
01-02-2004, 03:26 PM
They do not interchange!

AtvMxRider
01-02-2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Wolf 66
Thank you for all caring so much.:rolleyes:


Your welcome

Wolf 66
01-02-2004, 03:53 PM
Thank You

300extreme#8
01-02-2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Wolf 66
Typical Honda site, nobody interested in helping out a fellow Honda owner. I mean come on; out of 66 views, not 1 person has a clue to this question. Well I did look up the part #s and the pics look the same. I guess I will call my local dealer and see if the parts interchange. Thank you for all caring so much.:rolleyes: dude the 450 hasn't even came out yet,how r any of us suspose to know if they fit or not b/c we never gotten the chance to try them out or anything.if i knew they would fit or not, I would have told u as soon as i saw it so don't put us down for something we can't find out right now.it ain't our faught

Dave400ex
01-02-2004, 04:00 PM
Actually all most no parts will interchange. Just stuff like the wheels and handlebars will.

oldsandman
01-02-2004, 05:02 PM
Go read wolf's previous posts...he enjoys asking ?'s no one has anwsers for. I still remeber you wolf:p

merrill
01-02-2004, 05:13 PM
a-arms, shocks, swingarm,
bearing carrier, axle, all interchange.

psd1
01-02-2004, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by merrill
a-arms, shocks, swingarm,
bearing carrier, axle, all interchange.


:huh Nope, none of this stuff is interchangeable, Honda wants you to go out and buy all new stuff! That's why they sent 450r's to all the aftermarket folks so they could design new stuff!

That's my story & I'm sticking to it! :D :D Hell, I dont know, I'll just guess like 98% of the other folks here!

seven
01-02-2004, 06:19 PM
I was thinking about getting a YFZ but if some stuff is interchangable a would think about the new honda.

bkbatv
01-02-2004, 06:44 PM
your walsh a-arms should work as long as they are the ones with heims top and bottom all you will have to do is get defferent spacers for the heims.

Dave400ex
01-02-2004, 07:20 PM
Nothing will interchange! John Arens told me everything is different.

jimbo45
01-02-2004, 07:37 PM
Yep, everything is different. Except the grips and wheels!:D

ROGERS
01-02-2004, 08:15 PM
How many times is this question going to come up? Front bumper from 400ex, and grab bar from 250r. Arms- no, shocks-no, swingarm-no. I guess you could use your old stuff and modify it to fit, but how many of us know how to figure proper leverage ratios, linkage rates, and proper geometry setup? Sell your old stuff and buy something from a fabricator who supports the sport and knows how to do the math properly.

-Josh

merrill
01-02-2004, 08:54 PM
a-arms, shocks, swingarm,
bearing carrier, axle, all interchange

A-ARMS
450r 400ex
51350-hp1-000 51355-hn1-003
51360-hp1-000 51365-hn1-003
51370-hp1-000 51375-hn1-003
51380-hp1-000 51385-hn1-003

Swingarm
52200-hp1-000 52200-hn1-020

Know anything about part #'s.....

Dave400ex
01-02-2004, 09:05 PM
There have been many guys that have seen it, and have said they will not interchange. Jeff@Quadshop, C&D, John Arens rode it down in Texas. I believe he told me he asked the Honda guy and was told everything was different.

4fiddyR
01-02-2004, 09:43 PM
I know for a fact the bearing carrier is different, the left side of it carries two bearings, and the right side just one. That is different from any other quad ever.

Wolf 66
01-03-2004, 05:00 AM
Wow lots of responses, cool deal ;maybe I was mistaken on my opinion of fellow Honda riders. It seemed in the past just because I picked up a YFZ and said it was ausome that you guys really got pissed off. Well I did own 3 Hondas and never said anything bad about them. As a matter a fact I always spoke highly of my 400EX and my R not to mention my 250EX that has a millon hours on it and never gave me any problems. I did wind up selling my 250R because I got a great offer for it, and really needed the money to help pay for the YFZ. I would never sell my
2000 400EX or my sons 2001 250EX. They are to cool to let go. And it is true how dependable Honda always was.

Wolf 66
01-03-2004, 05:04 AM
Originally posted by oldsandman
Go read wolf's previous posts...he enjoys asking ?'s no one has anwsers for. I still remeber you wolf:p
Whatever dude, Do you live in Ny, I would love to line up to you on the moto track. How would you like it if you said how great your Cannondale was and everyone bashed you for it, so you know what, you can kiss my arss.

MX#9
01-03-2004, 08:11 AM
Merrill, I know that every part # is different meaning every part is ,well, different. The 400ex axle may very well slide right into the carrier as the seals and such have the same part #'s, but the 400ex axle will not have the extra bearing shoulder surface on it meaning the extra bearing in the carrier will be ineffective.

steve715
01-03-2004, 08:46 AM
We went to Baldwin Motorsports last week and I sat on one of 4 new 450's in thier shop and the correct answer is NO the a arms will not fit. Wheels and front bumper is what I was told.:macho

merrill
01-03-2004, 06:00 PM
Did you know that a 400ex a-arms will bolt on to a 300ex frame? 300ex part #'s
51350-
51360-
51370-
51380-hc0-680
Kind of makes you go ummm......

BigAl
01-03-2004, 06:45 PM
I will bet anyone $1 that the a-arms and swingarm will bolt up and work fine.

You might need a washer, or something else, but I bet you can make them work, especially aftermarket ones.

250R and 400Ex swingarms and a-arms are interchangeable if you use the right combination of parts.

as well as some 300EX stuff.

I have no doubt that Honda says they won't work.
I also have no doubt that persons in the business of selling aftermarket components say they won't work.
(no offense intended)

But my bet stands.

MIA450R
01-03-2004, 07:14 PM
According to ATV Sport (March): "forget about using aftermarket 400EX a-arms...the front end geometry is different."

Also, previous info has stated that almost nothing was used from the 400ex. Except the henway...

Pappy
01-03-2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by MIA450R
Except the henway...

ok ok..ill be the one...


what does a henway:p

MIA450R
01-03-2004, 07:49 PM
about 7 pounds! ROFL, LMAO, LOL

U takin' too much Nyquil too, pappy?
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee !

Quadfather
01-05-2004, 06:40 PM
I love that joke.

cgmxer115
01-05-2004, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by BigAl
I will bet anyone $1 that the a-arms and swingarm will bolt up and work fine.

You might need a washer, or something else, but I bet you can make them work, especially aftermarket ones.

250R and 400Ex swingarms and a-arms are interchangeable if you use the right combination of parts.

as well as some 300EX stuff.

I have no doubt that Honda says they won't work.
I also have no doubt that persons in the business of selling aftermarket components say they won't work.
(no offense intended)

But my bet stands.
I was at a show in NY city on sunday and we measured the a-arms on the 450R then walked over to the 400ex (20 feet away) and they DO NOT AND WILL NOT FIT!!:grr:
PAY UP I take paypal:D

BigAl
01-05-2004, 09:07 PM
If you really want to take me up on it, I will.

A good friend of mine is first in line here locally, so as soon as he gets it, I'm gonna try to bolt one on.

I'll let you know, about the 30th. :D

bkbatv
01-05-2004, 09:29 PM
Originally posted by cgmxer115
I was at a show in NY city on sunday and we measured the a-arms on the 450R then walked over to the 400ex (20 feet away) and they DO NOT AND WILL NOT FIT!!:grr:
PAY UP I take paypal:D

well whats the measurements ???????????

jgfarmsracer
01-05-2004, 09:43 PM
the axis company told me that the pre-production bike will be different from the actual the bike me and you will buy

what ever that means!!!!!!!

cgmxer115
01-06-2004, 12:40 AM
Originally posted by bkbatv
well whats the measurements ???????????
sorry , didnt have a tape measure , we kinda used a piece of paper and a pencil and made marks on the paper, it was not even close. The lower arms on the 450 are a lot farther apart on the frame then the 400ex. The 250R arms are closer but still off by about 3/4 of an inch. You'll need a BFH to make them work.

stryker
01-06-2004, 02:03 AM
I have also seen the 450r and 400ex side by side (at the long Beach Internationall Motorcycle show)and I could not see the A-arms or much of anything else being interchangable! But then again I didn't have a tape measure either. The two bike's are a lot different from each other even though they might look alike in pics. Just my 2 penny's.:)

BigAl
01-06-2004, 08:16 AM
2 pennies HECK,

This may cost me a dollar. :D

4fiddyR
01-06-2004, 06:18 PM
I'm sure anyone can "rigg" something up to be functional, but the Geometry might be wacked.
You may not be able to get the correct Caster/Camber.
It might work, but I doubt at it's full potential.
that's my $4.50:blah:

mx8
01-07-2004, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Wolf 66
Does anyone know if the A arms on the new 450R are the same size and geometry as on the 400EX. I am taking off my brand new Walsh Racecraft +3" A arms from my 400EX and putting my lonestar rec arms back on it. If the Walsh arms fit the new 450R then I will wait to sell them. If not they will be on ebay soon.:confused:

Mark Baldwin said nothing will fit.

BigAl
01-07-2004, 05:15 PM
Ouch that one hurts, I have talked to Mark at the races a few times, and I would be tempted to believe him.

Jnine
01-07-2004, 09:22 PM
How many different ways can it be covered? Here is what fits... Wheels & Grips. (And even the grips were redesigned for this model! ) N-O-T-H-I-N-G E-L-S-E.

As for the aftermarket stuff, think of it from their perspective. I make aftermarket parts, and I wish that everything DID fit from the EX. I wouldn't have to re-tool. If anything could transfer over, I would be the first to jump on it, but the only thing we have for it right now are nerfs. The last thing myself or any of the other guys want to go through is a lot of redesign & new tooling.

Hammer trx450r
01-08-2004, 04:45 AM
Thank you jnine. Do you have any word on the release or the problem with the release?

JWhite
01-08-2004, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Pappy
ok ok..ill be the one...


what does a henway:p

It goes,

Whats a henway?

JWhite
01-08-2004, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by Pappy
ok ok..ill be the one...


what does a henway:p

It goes,

Whats a henway?

BigAl
01-08-2004, 02:47 PM
JNINE, Let me say that I respect your opinion. And I will concede that you are most likely right.

And Mark Baldwin as well.

I have spent the last 15 years, trying to make up for The big 2's lack of marketing sense.

We have been told that you can't put a 350X engine in a 300EX frame....They BOLT IN EXACTLY!!!. Granted you have to move one rear motor mount over a little, and mees with the head pipe, but the other mounts and chain alignment are exact.

We have been told you can't use 250R parts on a 400EX.

The whole front end will interchange. You only need to use the bushings from the 400EX a-arms in the R arms.

The 86-87 swingarm is a bolt in fit.


Yamaha told us we couldn't use a YZ 450 exhaust cam in a 426, they said the motor would explode...how many of those have you seen running around.

They told us The cheaper 400EX brake pads would not fit in the 300EX and on and on and on.


My point is after all that ranting, that I have seen and made stuff work, when people told me it wouldn't when all they had done is looked at the part # and seen that it was different in the computer.

I'm not trying to start an argument about anything, Just a light hearted wager, because I have been down this road too many times before.

BigAl
01-08-2004, 02:53 PM
P.S.

for all you younger guys out there who don't have a welder and a torch, or extra money to waste on projects that may not work out, you should listen to JNINE, and Mark Baldwin, and even Jeff@the quadshop, from what I can tell they know there stuff.

Jnine
01-08-2004, 09:42 PM
I see your point. With modifications you may get some parts to transfer over. Only time will tell if modifications will work for transfering parts from the EX to the CRF.

Here's how most of the guys I consider to be quality aftermarket parts providers like Baldwin, Quadshop Jeff, etc. have to look at it however. Since those guys and myself make or provide aftermarket parts, it is absolutely critical to us that those parts we send to a customer bolt on with the least amount of trouble. Many guys probably don't have the tools that you or I may have to modify the parts, and really they shouldn't have to. They have to install the new part with what they have on hand, and to me that means that it d*@n well better fit. After all, that is what they paid for. With that thought in mind it is difficult to tell a customer to just do a little grinding here or cutting there to install a simple part. As everyone here knows, there is almost a continually running thread on "HELP, MY new nerfs don't fit". There is no excuse for that. To quote a line from one of my favorite movies that pretty much sums that up, "Fat, drunk & stupid is no way to go through life son!"

Hope that gives you a little insight into how I look at things. It also tells me that you are pretty creative as well, and quite good with tools. I salute your skills!

Pappy
01-08-2004, 09:57 PM
hondas are like chevrolet small blocks. if you have the time and tools all the parts will work:p

Hammer trx450r
01-09-2004, 05:08 AM
But am I gonna sail a 70 footer with confidencewith a-arms that are jambed in with a hammer and spacers? please i think i'll have jnine make me a set

Wolf 66
01-09-2004, 06:55 AM
I was reading Dirt Wheels and after seeing the close up pic. , they look almost identical and I think they will fit. I must say that it looks like Honda did a nice job on the quad. If anyone on the list is going to put new shocks on the front right away, let me know if you would want to sell the stock ones. They will probally perform better than the crappy works that I wasted my money on, and my 400EX deserves better than that.

Pappy
01-09-2004, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by Wolf 66
I was reading Dirt Wheels and after seeing the close up pic. , they look almost identical and I think they will fit. I must say that it looks like Honda did a nice job on the quad. If anyone on the list is going to put new shocks on the front right away, let me know if you would want to sell the stock ones. They will probally perform better than the crappy works that I wasted my money on, and my 400EX deserves better than that.

just remember that they may fit, that doesnt mean they will work properly on a 400ex. there is more to parts compatability then fit

BigAl
01-09-2004, 07:06 AM
Jnine, don't be to impressed with my skills, I have lived on a farm too long.

We have made alot of stuff over the years, and have redone most of it a few times, and it still isn't all that pretty.


But yes I understand your point also. you have to produce a product that bolts on without confusion, looks factory, and performs as well.

If we were in a room together, I would like to find out the differences exactly, but I don't think typing or the internet is the best wayto do it.

Jnine
01-09-2004, 08:20 AM
Well in this case it's going to be pretty difficult to make the a-arms, stems, etc. transfer over. The dimension differences are very large. The A-arms for example are over an inch different on the spacing at the frame from the EX to the TRX, and even if it was the same the spindle, is in a different location. Change any part of that and you will screw up the handling. It's not going to be a simple matter of a couple shims.

I came from a farm background also, but you know what the joke is right??? What tools should they take away from all farmers??? Chainsaws and Welders.... That came from a local farmer, not me, but you and I both know there is quite a bit of truth to it!! LOL!

BigAl
01-09-2004, 12:19 PM
You mean I'm not the only one who has done interior remodeling with a chainsaw???? :D

If the shoe fits...

I know my limitations, and I also know, that most of the time I spend more $ and effort to do something myself, than if I went and bought the aftermarket parts that I needed.

The aftermarket has certainly helped keep our sport alive the last 15 years.(or vice versa!!!).
And there are several reputable companies around, like yours John, and you know the others.
But the guys charging high prices for substandard products really gets my goat.

Some of these less experienced riders, are gonna throw away stock shocks and wheels, and in most cases pay high prices for units that are not as good as what they threw away. Because noone has bothered to tell them the truth about some of these items.

(ZPS and Beadlocks excepted)



Sorry for the rant, I could go on for days about such stuff.



That is good info on the a-arm dimensions.
Thanks for the chance to talk to you John.

Ralph
01-09-2004, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by 4fiddyR
I know for a fact the bearing carrier is different, the left side of it carries two bearings, and the right side just one. That is different from any other quad ever.

lol but an aftermarket will most likely still work....