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View Full Version : Is Tim Farr Illegal??



trx11t
12-31-2003, 10:30 AM
Last I heard Tim was going to race the SFX indoor series in January but they have switched to a production based class like the ATVA. Does this mean he cann't race the 450R since Honda isn't producing them until Febuary?
And if Honda delay's even a few days they will not be in dealerships before the Feb. 8th GNC at Glen Helen which means he may not be able to race the first round either.
If I understand the rules correctly don't they have to be a currently produced ATV that is readily available at the dealerships in order to be eligable for the production class.

Pappy
12-31-2003, 10:32 AM
wouldnt that be a b!tch:eek:

RED121572
12-31-2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by trx11t
Last I heard Tim was going to race the SFX indoor series in January but they have switched to a production based class like the ATVA. Does this mean he cann't race the 450R since Honda isn't producing them until Febuary?
And if Honda delay's even a few days they will not be in dealerships before the Feb. 8th GNC at Glen Helen which means he may not be able to race the first round either.
If I understand the rules correctly don't they have to be a currently produced ATV that is readily available at the dealerships in order to be eligable for the production class.

I think this guy deserves an award for the most thought out, most intelligent question EVER asked on here.

Cheers trx!!

RED

Got Huevos?
12-31-2003, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by trx11t
Last I heard Tim was going to race the SFX indoor series in January but they have switched to a production based class like the ATVA. Does this mean he cann't race the 450R since Honda isn't producing them until Febuary?
And if Honda delay's even a few days they will not be in dealerships before the Feb. 8th GNC at Glen Helen which means he may not be able to race the first round either.
If I understand the rules correctly don't they have to be a currently produced ATV that is readily available at the dealerships in order to be eligable for the production class.

just because it isn't shipping doesn't not mean they are non-existant. this the the production class and the ATV's have gone into production their just a little late but their are still in production, production being the Key word so it would not stop him from using the 450R.

trx11t
12-31-2003, 11:48 AM
I could be completely wrong here so don't slam me but does that mean we are supposed to take a manufactures word for it that it is "In Production". What would stop LRD from saying they are "In Production of 500 Titanium framed quads" so their rider could be the only rider at the track.
In the past I thought I saw something that said 500 units have to be available to the public at the time of the race in order to be eligable?
I guess my point is that there has to be some measurable way to determine what is an actual production ATV. I'm sure it will be a mute point since I don't think anyone will dispute that Honda is going to produce this ATV someday.

BigAl
12-31-2003, 12:36 PM
In the dirt bike world, they have the homolgation rule, that is similar to this production business. There must be so many units available for sale in the US for a bike to be eligible. Except that there was a wavier on some of the four stroke for 1 development year.

Back to our screwy world. The AMA is not going to shut mother Honda down, over a trivial matter like this. Who do you think funds the AMA mostly?

trx11t
12-31-2003, 12:41 PM
I'm sure you are right. What would happen if a racer protested though? I checked the rules and it is very vague so I guess they could come up with some excuse to let it slide.
It could turn into an ugly mess though. Maybe that will push Honda to get off their butts and get them to the dealerships.

kgbg
12-31-2003, 12:42 PM
Good question, and post. Technically yes, it sounds like it would be illegal, but Big Al is absolutly correct, they won't shut Honda down.



I bet this thread is full of My this can beat your that in a day.

trx11t
12-31-2003, 01:01 PM
Since the 04 rule book isn't up here is the line out of the 03 book.
"All engines used in sanctioned competition must be production model ATV engines (or single cylinder production model motorcycle engines) Available for sale to the general public.

If someone protested I don't know how they would get around this one.
I guess we will see soon.

jarsong
12-31-2003, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by trx11t
Last I heard Tim was going to race the SFX indoor series in January but they have switched to a production based class like the ATVA. Does this mean he cann't race the 450R since Honda isn't producing them until Febuary?
And if Honda delay's even a few days they will not be in dealerships before the Feb. 8th GNC at Glen Helen which means he may not be able to race the first round either.
If I understand the rules correctly don't they have to be a currently produced ATV that is readily available at the dealerships in order to be eligable for the production class.

I would bet there are already Hundreds of them produced with legal VIN number and such. Just to feed the supply chain for an end of Jan. delivery they started long ago. Available for sale to the general public is where it could get dicey. Technically a dealer would or could sell you one today, just couldn't deliver and register it to you. It is interesting though.

jarsong

Wingnut
12-31-2003, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by trx11t
Since the 04 rule book isn't up here is the line out of the 03 book.
"All engines used in sanctioned competition must be production model ATV engines (or single cylinder production model motorcycle engines) Available for sale to the general public.

If someone protested I don't know how they would get around this one.
I guess we will see soon.

Because of the "(or single cylinder production model motorcycle engines)" part he could still race his CRF450 racer. But with new production rules, that won't apply. Honda will find a way. Don't y'all know that all rules in ATV racing are open to interpretation and enforced unequally? We might see Honda sponsorship of the first few races.

Guy400
12-31-2003, 03:28 PM
It's a gray area and as mentioned, they won't cut Honda off. The problem with the TRX right now is an issue with the front shocks. TRX450R's are being rolled off the assembly line so they are in production. Again, as stated, Honda publically released this quad and dealerships are taking money for them so technically, they're for sale. There's some latitude in this rule and Honda is operating inside that area because the quad is in production and it is for sale.

SECCRS
12-31-2003, 04:13 PM
Just from what I know about the AMA. Yes I know you guys are talking about ATV racing. But this is still run by the AMA. When the CBR 600 FI came out all the factory teams had them at daytona. Well they where not in the dealerships for another 2 months. These are still considered production vehicles since the are in mass production by a major manufactuer. Weather they are sitting in the show room or in a warehouse and They are the only ones with them they are still a production vehicle. This same thing came up at the Daytona and several protest where filled and the outcome was that since they are in production by the manufactuer they are considered a production vehicle.

Sorry to burst the bubbles. But HE'S LEGAL.

Doug Parker

MEL
12-31-2003, 05:34 PM
i heard that the trx450 has to be on the showroom floors by feb 1 or they would not be allowed in the production class. and... theres already a line forming to protest if they try.

Woody_YFZ
12-31-2003, 08:00 PM
I'm sure Honda will beat the date, so it won't be an issue. They would never dare put the release date back again.

cgmxer115
01-01-2004, 12:19 PM
some guys were still racing cannondales in the production classes long after the company went belly up and stopped making them, and nobody said anything. If Honda wants Tim in there , you can bet he will be there.

450rboy
01-01-2004, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by RED121572
I think this guy deserves an award for the most thought out, most intelligent question EVER asked on here.

Cheers trx!!

RED

i am going with what RED said

4fiddyR
01-01-2004, 11:19 PM
Maybe it didn't matter that Cannondale went belly up, and it was a "production quad" because over 500 units owned by the public???

Teufel
01-07-2004, 09:46 AM
Most motor sports sanctioning commites only require a small number of models to be made to consider it a production model.

It would depend on the AMA/ATVA's definition of "production model"

Quad18star
01-07-2004, 05:33 PM
Very well thought out question and some good answers . My undertsanding of the rule is that " Production" has to be bought through a dealership or have more than 500 units available to the public . But what I dont really understand is that a company such as Lonestar who builds more than 500 units per year and is readily available to the public cannot be raced in this class . What I'm getting to , is that it seems like the AMA or ATVA , whatever its called , is only goign with the big name companies , such as Honda Yamaha Suzuki Polaris etc. Aftermarket frames are available to anyone in the world ... so why can't they be raced in the production class . It will however improve the quality of our sport IF they spend the money they make back into the race/rec devisions , not into the motorcycle devisions . It will be interesting to see what happens once the first race of the season is upon us ... like stated the TRX450 is not yet available to the general public , therefore in my opinion it isn't yet a production unit unless it sits on the showroom floor . Would be funny to see Farr have to either sit out , or ride a Yammy in the first race of the season . HAHA

Hammer trx450r
01-07-2004, 06:30 PM
Can you buy a production quad from lonestar? kewl

tprender
01-10-2004, 07:20 PM
for your info, The rule that we wrote last fall at AMA says that there has to be 100 units for M/C but the number was left open on the ATV side. I tried for the number 100 units like with M/C but was outvoted. but, from what I unterstand that the ATVA will have to have been given data for a new atv (450f) or any other new quad to be raced in the production class. for a company like Lonestar to make a atv legal in the production class. they have to have 100 of the same units for sale to the general public. does GasGas have 100 units ready or in the US? Honda will have the 450f ready by feb 7th so that there will be no problems for Farr. I would bet money on this if I had any money to bet.
Some of you are getting the Pro M/C rule confused witht he amutaer rule about bikes availbe to the public. The pro rule says that they have 1 year to make the bike availble to the public. The am rule says that the bike have to be avaible to the public now in all areas of the US, not just in a few states.

QuadRacer041
01-12-2004, 05:31 AM
Originally posted by RED121572
I think this guy deserves an award for the most thought out, most intelligent question EVER asked on here.

Cheers trx!!

RED

hey if u go back and check i posted about tim not being able to ride the 450r for that same reason almost 2 weeks ago, lol
give credit were credit is due!:D

QuadRacer041
01-12-2004, 05:33 AM
Originally posted by tprender
for your info, The rule that we wrote last fall at AMA says that there has to be 100 units for M/C but the number was left open on the ATV side. I tried for the number 100 units like with M/C but was outvoted. but, from what I unterstand that the ATVA will have to have been given data for a new atv (450f) or any other new quad to be raced in the production class. for a company like Lonestar to make a atv legal in the production class. they have to have 100 of the same units for sale to the general public. does GasGas have 100 units ready or in the US? Honda will have the 450f ready by feb 7th so that there will be no problems for Farr. I would bet money on this if I had any money to bet.
Some of you are getting the Pro M/C rule confused witht he amutaer rule about bikes availbe to the public. The pro rule says that they have 1 year to make the bike availble to the public. The am rule says that the bike have to be avaible to the public now in all areas of the US, not just in a few states.


well that F*ckin Bu11****
he should have the same rule as we do.
if its not avalible to the public its not a produtcion bike.