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View Full Version : Yfz Vs. Trx Dyno2



chad502ex
12-25-2003, 12:49 PM
Just to clear a bit up from the last thread (YFZ VS. TRX DYNO) before it was closed,...

My only point was that I do not believe the new trx450r has only 5 hp (33hp) more than a stock trx400ex (~27hp), being that the 450r is liquid cooled and the stock crf450R outputs ~55hp. Why would HONDA manufacture a quad that has ONLY 5 more ponies than the 400 with less torque, when thier competition (YFZ) has over 40? Catch my drift? ****, a fregg'n 416 outputs 42hp, so why would anyone expect less from a new 450r? Just a thought,..

Another point (against honda that is,...), why would HONDA make a quad with a smaller stroke (64.8mm) than a 400ex (70mm), since torque wins races- not hp? No matter, I'll be boring and stroking the 450r to 101 x 71. Can you say 550R?

One last comment, I would like to retract my statement about having the exhaust manufacture "ask curtis how to build pipes",.... the truth is I'm not an expert on HMF Engineering pipes, but I did notice that exriders.com apparently post their banner and backs thier product. :). Does promoting the product make it good tho? Seriously, my bad on assuming HMF pipes are not good, they very well could be the best!

HONDA RULZ! RIDE RED!

Chad502EX.com

Doibugu2
12-25-2003, 03:01 PM
Don't want to get into an arguement, but I believe Honda knows what they are doing. They engines from anything from indy cars to weedwackers. I'm sure they have a reason why they only put a 64.8 stroke in the motor.

If you go look at the YFZ, that oddly enough has a smaller stroke at 62mm.

But the big difference is the compression. The YFZ is running 11.9.1 compared to the honda's 10.5.1.

How would would you expect them to be the same HP?

chad502ex
12-25-2003, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Doibugu2
Don't want to get into an arguement, but I believe Honda knows what they are doing. They engines from anything from indy cars to weedwackers. I'm sure they have a reason why they only put a 64.8 stroke in the motor.

If you go look at the YFZ, that oddly enough has a smaller stroke at 62mm.

But the big difference is the compression. The YFZ is running 11.9.1 compared to the honda's 10.5.1.

How would would you expect them to be the same HP?

They should be close- not as much as those dynos are advertising. 10.5:1 to 11.9:1 isn't going to get you that much more ponies when your 10cc down in displacement. same hp- no, but closer than advertised- yes!

Indy car technology: HONDA changed their 450r piston design cause the original "indy car" crf450 piston in the dirtbike had probles with "tilt" and smacked the valves/head. This is why HONDA changed the 450r piston and added another ring and skirt to prevent "tilt".


Chad502ex.com

nifty450
12-25-2003, 05:17 PM
the new trx 450r has 42 hp stock, then when u get the hop up kit or whatever its callled, it boost it up to 47 hp. COOL
:D

nifty450
12-25-2003, 05:21 PM
http://www.atvsource.com/articles/atv_reviews/2003/honda/120103_honda_trx450r.htm

heres the link to the review where it tells the hp

chad502ex
12-25-2003, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by nifty450
the new trx 450r has 42 hp stock, then when u get the hop up kit or whatever its callled, it boost it up to 47 hp. COOL
:D

That's what HONDA says 42np and 13% gain with kit (47hp). But these guys here say HMF Engineering dyno is more accurate at 33hp!! LMFAO!

chad502ex.com

C41Xracer
12-25-2003, 05:57 PM
numbers dont lie and dynos dont either . dyno numbers varry depending on the air, humidity and some other odds and ends. im not going to believe hmf's dyno results until i see similar numbers from others out there. if you want some numbers to argue about TLC racings vfz with there exhaust, air filter and jet kit (no cam mod.) makes rear wheel 51.3 hp.

C41Xracer
12-25-2003, 06:05 PM
the real sad part about TLC racing is they compared there exhaust to sparks and it was blown out of the water and they said they wouldn't give that exhaust to ther worst enemy

AlaskaSpeed
12-25-2003, 06:19 PM
Can I just ask the age old question....who cares? Seriously, who cares what the numbers say, as long as either the TRX or YFZ do what you need them to do on the track or trail? I don't get all of this *****in........:confused:

C41Xracer
12-25-2003, 06:23 PM
i have a simple solution for all vfz owners and soon to be trx owner settle it on the track......period!:macho

KrazyKid300ex
12-25-2003, 06:37 PM
Alright..

450rboy
12-25-2003, 08:04 PM
this is what i say............none of you won't no til they test each they together on the race track, drag strip, and lot of other stuff........so plz just stop arguing......no will now until they do a test in a magazine like Dirtwheels, Atv sport, or atv action........i hope is on the 450r but good luck to both of them

C41Xracer
12-25-2003, 08:16 PM
i agree 450RBOY ,but i kinda have a problem with that too. Some mags. are brand bias just like consumers of the atv's them selves.I think the best way to tell is to find some one that has seat time and listen to what they have to say and go from there.

2004TRX450R
12-26-2003, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by chad502ex
HONDA changed their 450r piston design cause the original "indy car" crf450 piston in the dirtbike had probles with "tilt" and smacked the valves/head. This is why HONDA changed the 450r piston and added another ring and skirt to prevent "tilt".


Chad502ex.com

Hmmm That is wierd I have not seen one come into the shop for "tilt" problems. No one can say for sure why Honda changed it the way they did but here is a little food for thought. When the CRF450 first came out at the Honda update class they said it would use enough oil in 4hours of rideing to bring the level from the high mark to the low mark due to the single ring piston. The bike was also a purpose built bike for the TRACK! Now Honda knows that most ATV riders don't race and most of the TRX450Rs will never hit the tracks. They want them to be more reliable and more maintainence free. So they added a second ring.

Chad this comment isn't directed at you personally but in general for a lot of people posting on here so please don't take offense. I find it very amuseing how everyone thinks that Honda did this for this reason and did that for that reason when they really don't have a clue.

I would also like to say hp quotes from aftermarket manufacturers are generally inflated. Im not saying HMF specificly but in general weather it be for bike parts, ATV parts, car parts or truck parts they all seem to be inflated. So I won't belive them until I see some numbers from an independant source. Also I'm not saying that because the TRX has less hp on their claims than the YFZ. If it were reversed and the TRX showed more HP then I'd still say the same thing so don't think I am saying that just because I like Honda.

Also I think there are a lot of apples to oranges comparasins on hp numbers here. I think the claimed 42 or 43hp or the TRX is crank hp wich is very different than rear wheel hp. Most manufactuers (Honda, Yamaha, etc.) post crank hp claims not rear wheel hp claims because they are higher and sound better. It is called marketing. Then someone puts one on a dyno and eveyrone crys bull**** because the numbers are so much lower. So from the loss of power thorugh the drivetrain and the high claims at the crank to start with the numbers are a lot lower. Also the numbers will vary quite a bit from bike to bike due to mass produceing tolarances are much less than that of a prototype or preproduction model.

chad502ex
12-26-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
Hmmm That is wierd I have not seen one come into the shop for "tilt" problems.


yup! there were "tilt" issues with thier "flat-as-a-pancake" crf piston. My NASCAR machinist, Pat Sanford, also had "tilt" issue with his stock crf. All pistons encounter forward to back rock during thier cycle in the cylinder. It's the pistons skirt and rings that help minimize "tilt".

As far as the trx450R hp, I plan to dyno my new 450R as soon as it's delivered (late Jan.) and post the "Certified Dyno" results on my website before I tear down the motor for the 550cc modification. :D Can't wait!

BTW, I encourage your comments. I take no offense to open dialog and good communication, unless it's a directed attack which anyone would defend themselves. But we seem to talk fine.
Chad502EX.com

Greg Z
12-26-2003, 02:47 PM
seems we have a case on our hands

come on scooby doo

AlaskaSpeed
12-26-2003, 02:49 PM
roray, raggy

FFW
12-26-2003, 05:41 PM
Ok Chad...the question to me remains this: Will the stock 450R climb the 500 hill? :)

We should talk to Speedy and get up to Frackville before you tear the new quad apart. I'll even take pictures again!

How about it?


:D

chad502ex
12-26-2003, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by FFW
Ok Chad...the question to me remains this: Will the stock 450R climb the 500 hill? :)

We should talk to Speedy and get up to Frackville before you tear the new quad apart. I'll even take pictures again!

How about it?


:D

500 hill on the 450r? LMFAO!! the 450 should smoke that climb. You know I'll be the first on a 450r to try, don't you?

I think at the end of Jan., or when HONDA releases the 450, my brother on the 502 and me on the 450r will be up there again to ride,...

chad502ex.com

FFW
12-26-2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by chad502ex
500 hill on the 450r? LMFAO!! the 450 should smoke that climb. You know I'll be the first on a 450r to try, don't you?

I think at the end of Jan., or when HONDA releases the 450, my brother on the 502 and me on the 450r will be up there again to ride,...

chad502ex.com

I would expect nothing less than for you to try that hill. Should be fun to watch.

I'll bring the camera! I'm curious if it would do it with the stock tires though. You might have problems with that loose shale and stock tires.


:)

chad502ex
12-26-2003, 07:04 PM
Originally posted by FFW
I would expect nothing less than for you to try that hill. Should be fun to watch.

I'll bring the camera! I'm curious if it would do it with the stock tires though. You might have problems with that loose shale and stock tires.


:)

FFW,

LOL! Bring the camera and crew. Maybe I shouldn't try that hill with stock tires, I might have only 33.1hp and someone might put butter on the climb before I try to climb it!!

just kidding.

:devil:
chad502ex.com

Luecker
12-26-2003, 08:26 PM
I think they went with a smaller bore so it revs faster.

As far as the Dynos, I don't believe them unless they are done on the same day on the same dyno.

Looking at the HMF's dynos. The Hondas exhaust is more restrictive because HMF got more power out of their exhaust for the TRX than they did the YFZ.

If I am not mistaken these motors put out similar horsepower in the bikes. Then there isn't any reason that with pipe and cam changes that the atv's shouldn't be similar in power. But I believe power delivery will be different. Honda will have smoother power where as the Yamaha has a harder hit.

33 HP is nothing to laugh at. Will be right there with the YFZ and should beat most piped Z's.

nifty450
12-26-2003, 09:35 PM
i know that in the last argument, the one about the trx and the yfz on the dynos, that was closed cause of the arguement it started. i forget who it was but one of the yfz owners was posting a pic of the 2 or 3 yfz's in front of the trx at the beginnign og the race. its not cause its faster, its becasue they run from dead engines so u have to start them when they drop the flag. the yfz has electric start so it starts a little quicker, and gets a jump on the trx, atleast thats what the guy at the yamaha dealership told me.

Wingnut
12-26-2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by Luecker
If I am not mistaken these motors put out similar horsepower in the bikes.

I have been reading comments like this all over the 450R forum, so, Luecker, I'm not picking on you.

I don't see how anyone can compare the ATVs based on the bikes performance. When compared to the CRF, the TRX has different valves,compression ratio, cam, flywheel, bore, and stroke. In my oppinion, that makes it a different engine. We'll just have to wait to see how this new engine performs.

AlaskaSpeed
12-26-2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by nifty450
i know that in the last argument, the one about the trx and the yfz on the dynos, that was closed cause of the arguement it started. i forget who it was but one of the yfz owners was posting a pic of the 2 or 3 yfz's in front of the trx at the beginnign og the race. its not cause its faster, its becasue they run from dead engines so u have to start them when they drop the flag. the yfz has electric start so it starts a little quicker, and gets a jump on the trx, atleast thats what the guy at the yamaha dealership told me.

He told ya, huh? LMAO...they don't do dead engine starts in MX...not that I know of at least....:huh

Pappy
12-26-2003, 10:58 PM
i like both quads so dont pray for my ruination when i say this.


the 250r wasnt the most powerful or fastest quad but has kicked serious *** since 1986. honda put a well balanced quad to market and the rest is history. you can argue numbers...dyno's....spec sheets all damn day. when the rubber meets dirt and the dust starts flying you will have your answer.

r450rr
12-27-2003, 01:30 AM
amen!!. pappy , well said,, lets put all the dyno **** to rest and not argue anymore..and just wait about another month and then we all will know for sure... please??

Pappy
12-27-2003, 05:28 AM
i have ordered all dyno's shut down :devil: all bench racers report to the showers. :devil: your strings are showing:p

twisted threads
12-27-2003, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by Pappy
i like both quads so dont pray for my ruination when i say this.


the 250r wasnt the most powerful or fastest quad but has kicked serious *** since 1986. honda put a well balanced quad to market and the rest is history. you can argue numbers...dyno's....spec sheets all damn day. when the rubber meets dirt and the dust starts flying you will have your answer.

Pappy YOU are very WISE!! :D

Pappy
12-27-2003, 05:57 AM
oh dont get me wrong...i like reading about each quad and what not. its the constant mine is better and this brand is better crap that shuts me down. maybe its because im old and it dont matter to me what you spend your money on but damn...enough is enough.

there is some people in this very thread that appear to have a very credible working knowledge with engines and specs....but the way they represent themselves i wouldnt let them hold my gas cap while i fueled up.

Guy400
12-27-2003, 06:29 AM
I start from Gate 6 for the Benchrace--where's the staging area??

:devil:

KrazyKid300ex
12-27-2003, 06:59 AM
i think it will all come down on how it handles. the 250r and 400ex were not the fastest but they handled their power and pulled them to victory.

AlaskaSpeed
12-27-2003, 09:57 AM
....but the way they represent themselves i wouldnt let them hold my gas cap while i fueled up.

Please tell me that isn't east coast slang for a homosexual reference.........:eek2: :p

Bad Habit
12-27-2003, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by AlaskaSpeed
Please tell me that isn't east coast slang for a homosexual reference.........:eek2: :p

LMFAO