My correspondence with Dynojet. No #150 main in jet kit!!

[ewalker302]

-----Original Message-----
From: Eddie Walker [mailto:ewalker@cband.net]
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:05 PM
To: *******@dynojet.com
Cc: Hondatech@dynojet.com; Atvkitsales@dynojet.com
Subject: Jet kit size selection????????


Hello,
I have your jet kit for the Honda 400ex.

Main sizes:134, 138, 142, 146, 155, 160, 165, 170.

Why no 150???????????
The 142 main is the same size as the stock 148 Keihin, then you have two jets in there smaller than stock. HUH????
Then you jump from 146 to 155????

I run slightly lean with the 146 & rich with the 155.
I know how to adjust the air/fuel ratio.
I get the stage 1&2 thing too.
Still the kit should include a 150


I will gladly send you back the 134-142 jets for a 150.

Otherwise I will be forced to return my kit & buy two or three Keihin jets that will actually do the job this $50 kit was supposed to do.

There are a few current threads on this topic on exriders in which I am active.
Please get back to me & let me know if I can get the right jets for my bike from you or if I need to go with Keihin.

Thanks,
Lonnie Walker



----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Cory
To: 'Eddie Walker'
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 11:04 AM
Subject: RE: Jet kit size selection????????


What test are you doing to determine that the DJ146 is too small and the DJ155 is too large?
What are the modifications that you have done to your ATV?
The reason that there is not a DJ150 main jet in the kit, is that during our Dyno testing and track testing the DJ146 was the correct size for the stock air box with an aftermarket race exhaust. The DJ155 main jet is the correct size for use with the lid off the airbox and the stock exhaust above 5000 feet.
If you have further questions please call me at the number listed below.
Thank You!

Michael Cory
Research & Development
Phone: 800-992-4993 EXT. 108
Michael@Dynojet.com
www.Dynojet.com
www.Powercommander.com




The test I am doing is installing the jets in my bike, then riding it.

The reasoning you have stated for excluding the 150 main jet is unacceptable. If this is how you test, then this is the last Dynojet product I will buy, That makes no sense at all.

What sort of dyno & track testing did you do to come up with the (DJ) 138 & 134 size main.

Every bike, according to altitude & mods may require different jetting. There are different filter brands, airbox mods,
and exhausts, some being themselves adjustable by the placement of discs or "quiet cores"

In the kit, by you begin by increasing the main jet size by 4-----134, 138, 142,146. Then you jump numerically 9 sizes?? to 155 and continue to increase by 5's 155, 160, 165, 170.

Understand that the (DJ)146 is the next larger main jet in the kit over stock (Keihin) 148. Then you skip a size & jump right to the 155 while including 3 useless jets (134, 138, 142).

It is just common sense to include a 150 main in this kit. Am I crazy or what?? I mean look at the #s there is a very obvious exclusion in the kit.

This is my only other question.

Will you send me a 150 main?


I will update if I get another response.

:bandit:

[cals400ex]

that is the same thing that i always asked too. i don't understand why they skip around. i thought i would always be able to fine tune my mainjet better with the keihin jets. with the keihins you can get 150,152,155,158,160, etc. so, i refused to buy the jet kit and i still use keihin jets. good luck

[Doibugu2]

I agree with what your saying.


However, are you sure you need a 150? If you have the lid on and just an aftermarket exhaust, I cannot believe you need a 150.

Heck I'm running a 142. With HMF slipon and lid on.

[Glamis400ex]

That's the reason I went back to stock jets. I was tired of having it "almost" perfect.

Glamis

[Guy400]

When I bought my HMF slip-on with the QC insert I had a hell of a time jetting my quad. I bought a DJ kit and wrestled with that quad for days trying to get the jetting right. I'd be too rich with the one size of a DJ main but when I'd go to the next smaller size it was too lean. I tried adjusting the air/fuel screw with both jets to fine tune each one but just couldn't get it. I wound up just putting it back to stock, cleaning the carb out and starting over. I finally got it but it was hell.

[ewalker302]

Originally posted by Doibugu2
I agree with what your saying.


However, are you sure you need a 150? If you have the lid on and just an aftermarket exhaust, I cannot believe you need a 150.

Heck I'm running a 142. With HMF slipon and lid on.

You are running a (DJ)142????
That is exactly the same size as a Stock (Keihin 148)
So you still have the stock jetting, just a different brand.

No I'm not SURE I need a 150, but how am I supposed to find out when I dont have one???

I am sure that a (DJ)155 is too rich, I'm running a (DJ)146 now and it runs fine, but I would like to try a (DJ)148-150

:bandit:

[Guy400]

With no lid, a Uni filter and my HMF with the QC I was running either the DJ160 or DJ165 main.

[cals400ex]

the jetting makes me laugh all of the time. i try to learn how dynojets are compared to the keihin numbers but its too hard to tell since i don't have the kit. i will talk to one person running a 142 with pipe/filter and i will talk to another person running the same dynojets but they have a 170 in. all i know is someone is way off. i have found how I prefer my bike to be jetted with keihins, but that doesn't help me out when i try to suggest a jet when others buy dynojets. i wish i had the kit so i could just compare the jets. i was really close to buying one and just testing it. 2 reasons why i didn't though: 1. i was just going to test it to see how they compared to keihin jets. the kit would then be sitting on my shelf. 2 i will by buying a fcr this summer so i won't have a use for the dynojets. good luck everyone. i am going to stick with my keihins as i have every keihin between 150 and 165. as the temp changes, i change the main since i have them all in my tackle box.

[ewalker302]

If you need the DJ150 main jet I will send it to you. Please provide me with you shipping address.

Michael Cory
Research & Development
Phone: 800-992-4993 EXT. 108
Michael@Dynojet.com
www.Dynojet.com
www.Powercommander.com


Michael,

My address is:

Eddie Walker
XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
MS





The main jet should ship tomorrow. I am sending you a DJ148, DJ150 and a new main jet adaptor. It will be shipped UPS ground.


Michael Cory
Research & Development
Phone: 800-992-4993 EXT. 108
Michael@Dynojet.com
www.Dynojet.com
www.Powercommander.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Eddie Walker [mailto:ewalker@cband.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 2:47 PM
To: Michael Cory
Subject: Re: Jet kit size selection????????



Sweet:D


:bandit:

[Aceman]

Wow, I'm impressed. They are actually going to send you some more jets. Sometimes a little complaining goes a long way. That and the threat that 17,000+ exriders will see the result.

[jshtex]

ewalker302... How do you know that the 142DJ and the 148 Keihn are the same size? Did someone from DJ verify that? I am not trying to start any crap, I just am interested to find out what the translation is for sure. I have tried to compare the "hole" sizes but that does not account for the different needle. And I have seen the comparison to mikuni jets but that really does not help either.

[ewalker302]

Originally posted by jshtex
ewalker302... How do you know that the 142DJ and the 148 Keihn are the same size? Did someone from DJ verify that? I am not trying to start any crap, I just am interested to find out what the translation is for sure. I have tried to compare the "hole" sizes but that does not account for the different needle. And I have seen the comparison to mikuni jets but that really does not help either.

Ok here is how I tested the jets, this may be complete BS but it worked out & the results were accurate as far as I can tell.

The DJ and Keihin jets may have a different taper inside, I dont know, what i tested was the actual opening in the jet.

The needle jet is tapered right?

I just gently stuck the needle in the stock main hole, then tried the needle in the DJ kit main jets to see how they compared, (how far the needle went in the hole)

(DJ)142 was exactly the same diameter as the stock 148 opening.
(DJ)146 was a little bigger, (DJ)155 was a lot bigger.

Thats how I tested the jet hole size itself.

Now I hope you are sitting down for this next post.

:bandit:

[ewalker302]

***Do not reply to this e-mail. UPS and DYNOJET RESEARCH will not receive your reply.

This message was sent to you at the request of DYNOJET RESEARCH to notify you that the package information below has been transmitted to UPS. The package(s) may not have actually been placed with UPS for shipment. To verify when and if the shipment is tendered to UPS and its actual transit status, click on the tracking link below or contact DYNOJET RESEARCH directly.

Important Delivery Information


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Scheduled Delivery: 02-January-2004

Shipment Detail


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ship To:
EDDIE WALKER
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
MS
39629
US
Number of Packages: 1
UPS Service: GROUND
Weight: 0.4 LBS


Tracking Number: 1ZW153X8034511XXXX
Invoice Number: XXXXX
Reference Number XXXX



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Tracking Number Status Delivery Information


1. 1Z W15 3X8 03 4511 XXXX
In Transit
[ On-Time ]
Sched. Delivery: Jan 2, 2004
Shipped to: XXXXXXXX, MS, US
Service Type: GROUND




Tracking results provided by UPS: Dec 24, 2003 11:56 P.M. Eastern Time (USA)



Nice:D

Posting link to trader feedback:p

:bandit:

I run a 146 dyno jet and i'm far from having a stock motor...:eek2: :eek2:

[speedy400]

Originally posted by Rico
I run a 146 dyno jet and i'm far from having a stock motor...:eek2: :eek2:
:eek: I run DJ175MJ(from my dad's ds650 dynojet kit):huh :huh -darren



ps- I gotta do a plug chop pretty soon but I think its almost right on, maybe just a tad rich.

[ewalker302]

Originally posted by Rico
I run a 146 dyno jet and i'm far from having a stock motor...:eek2: :eek2:

I dunno Rico.

My bike just has pipe, filter, degree key, & it runs good w/the 146

I am starting to think that recomendations on jetting is all BS.
It seems from reading more & more jetting threads here that every bike & environment may need to be jetted differently???

MY bike still backfires slightly on decel, I think this is because I have the stock pilot in there though.

I just wanted the right assortment of jets so I could tune my bike right in summer or winter, airbox lid on or off.
It rarely gets below freezing for a whole day here, but in the summer we can have weeks of near 100* weather.

Im ready to get these new jets DJ148-150 & see how they work.

My bike seemed to run better this past summer w/the 146 than it is now. I am gonna try the 148 when I get it for colder weather.

:bandit:

[Werx615]

im runnin the dj 170 main with a pipe, filter an no lid an it runs great, spark plug is fine.

[jshtex]

We just did 11 pulls on a dyno to get ours jetted right. We have a 11:1 416, head porting, stage II hotcam, WB eseries slip on, K&N filter, no lid, no choke, ground head pipe. Right now we have a 190 Keihn main jet in it and the Air/Fuel ratio is just about perfect. Ya I know it sounds crazy..... But it runs great.

[cals400ex]

a 190 seems really steep. what was the temp? with that big of a jet, i would think you would be suffering on top end. i suffer on top end if i run bigger than a 162, but i do run the airbox lid. the difference in speed isn't that noticable from one jet to the next, but you will notice a little difference up top when you have another bike right next to you to test and tune with.

[jshtex]

Originally posted by cals400ex
a 190 seems really steep. what was the temp? with that big of a jet, i would think you would be suffering on top end. i suffer on top end if i run bigger than a 162, but i do run the airbox lid. the difference in speed isn't that noticable from one jet to the next, but you will notice a little difference up top when you have another bike right next to you to test and tune with.

Believe it or not it actually leans out just a tad right before it hits the rev limiter. The dyno runs were done at around 80 to 85 ( I live in Texas so it never gets too cold). It starts off a little rich and then around 1000 rpm it leans to right around perfect, and then stays there untill right before red line. When I took it to have it tested, I thought it was probably running rich with a 185 in it, but I just wanted to be sure, so I wouldn't hurt anything.

Like I said we made 11 pulls with it. I run Sunoco Purple fuel (110 octane) and I made several pulls with Sunoco Turbo Blue (110 plus Oxygenation). The blue ran a little hotter, and made a little more peak horsepower, but it was very inconsistent from an air / fuel standpoint.

[cals400ex]

are you running a true 11:1 compression or a 11:1 piston? what brand?

[cals400ex]

what size jets did you all test?? also, what determined if your lean or rich? i am not sure how these dyno's work. :)

[jshtex]

We are running a JE 10.8:1 with a Cometic gaskit set that is supposed to raise the compression to 11:1 (thanks C&D). We tried everything from a 170 up to a 195 mostly in 5 step increments but as we got close we tried several in 2 step increments. Once we had the main where we wanted it then we worked on the clip position and the screw. The dyno actually has a probe that goes into the exhaust that "sniffs" the air fuel mixture. And then it displays the fuel mixture just like it shows HP and Torque in a line graph so you can see the mixture at any given RPM. It will have a line that is the ideal mixture (14:1 I think) and you can tell if you are above or below it.

I don't pretend to understand why ours would need a 190 MJ but I can say it runs good and pulls hard.

[cals400ex]

Originally posted by jshtex
We are running a JE 10.8:1 with a Cometic gaskit set that is supposed to raise the compression to 11:1 (thanks C&D). We tried everything from a 170 up to a 195 mostly in 5 step increments but as we got close we tried several in 2 step increments. Once we had the main where we wanted it then we worked on the clip position and the screw. The dyno actually has a probe that goes into the exhaust that "sniffs" the air fuel mixture. And then it displays the fuel mixture just like it shows HP and Torque in a line graph so you can see the mixture at any given RPM. It will have a line that is the ideal mixture (14:1 I think) and you can tell if you are above or below it.

I don't pretend to understand why ours would need a 190 MJ but I can say it runs good and pulls hard.


is that what the air/fuel ratio should be for an atv too?? i just remember reading one of the pipe shootouts for the 400ex and atv sport saying they found the jetting to be right on with the big gun exhaust at 12.8:1. however, they said this was with a 155 or 158 jet and in my opinion that is too big on a stock bike.

but, its cool you got to dyno the bike. i know what works for me, you know what works for you. i won't run larger than a 165 keihin main on my built bike and that is with the lid off and in the winter with a stock carb. too much power is lost in the upper gears for me. thats pretty cool though.

[toby400ex]

i hate dyno jet:o

[YZROOSTINYA]

I am about 1500-2k elevation.

155 main
45 pilot
4th clip up on needle
all keihin jets

je 10.8 piston with xr head gasket and ex base gasket(whatever that equals to comp wise)

ported no choke stage 2 hottie

same as all my friends run. jetting is fine here.

?????

[howboutchaw]

Originally posted by jshtex
We are running a JE 10.8:1 with a Cometic gaskit set that is supposed to raise the compression to 11:1 (thanks C&D). We tried everything from a 170 up to a 195 mostly in 5 step increments but as we got close we tried several in 2 step increments. Once we had the main where we wanted it then we worked on the clip position and the screw. The dyno actually has a probe that goes into the exhaust that "sniffs" the air fuel mixture. And then it displays the fuel mixture just like it shows HP and Torque in a line graph so you can see the mixture at any given RPM. It will have a line that is the ideal mixture (14:1 I think) and you can tell if you are above or below it.

I don't pretend to understand why ours would need a 190 MJ but I can say it runs good and pulls hard.

How many ponies did the ex pull?

[zlam27]

my friend bought a dynojet kit from another friend of mine when he sold his 400ex for a kfx400. well he sold the quad with the needle and stuff in the carb, so all we have now is a box full of jets. i emailed dynojet to see if i could buy just the needle and they wanted nothing to do with that. i tried to explain but he just said i had to buy the whole kit (it was that mike cory guy or whoever you talked to). i would have to say you faired quite well with them, i think they lack in the PR skills. just look at the cost of the kits, especially the ones with a pipe and K&N for the LOW LOW price of $500!!!! oh well, ill just stick to the keihn jets.

BTW: do dynojets add any power? im sure they claim some HP gains, but anyone have dyno proof (actual dyno OR butt dyno). is this kinda like the choke removal or header grinding- no one really knows.

zach