416 vs 440 ?

[EXtreme]

Im having my engine gone through this winter and was wondering what the pro and cons are with the 416 vs/ the 440 and what everone's thoughts are on the 2. Thanks alot:devil:

[slosh13]

do a search and you will find a ton of info...... type in 416* in the search box. You wont be disappointed with the results and hopefully it makes your decision easier.:) :macho

[stupid driver]

i have had a little riding time on a 416 and a 440. It came down to more torque down low on the 440, and then it moved pretty well once it got movin.

the 416 was a quicker revver. It would take off like a raped ape, and it loved the higher rpms. Keep in mind, not all kits are the same

Maybe look into a 425 also. Thats what I have, and i love it. It has the best of both worlds imo. It deffinately likes the higher rpms, but it still has more than enough bottom. Any aftermarket bore on a 400 will get you results, if it is built right.

[hook]

cams make a differ on your torque also

[Ex'r Marlin]

Will you be doing the modification yourself, or will you send it out to be done?

I ask because I hear that building a 440 is a little more difficult to get it right than a 416. Something about getting the right compression, if I remember right.

Like slosh13 said, the 416 should rev quicker, while the 440 should give you more bottom end.

Note: I too recommend doing a search on this topic, there is a lot of excellent information on Exriders.com about this subject.:cool:

[RED121572]

I went from a 11.1; 406 to the mods listed below. I dont know about the 416 kit, but my motor will flat out push the rev limiter in the hurry. For what I need my quad to do, (trail riding), I couldnt ask for more bottom end.

Good luck with your project and let us know what you decide. Oh, the one thing I will suggest to you though, whatever kit you decide, go with the highest compression piston you can,

RED:D

[EXtreme]

Thanks everyone. All work will be done local at a shop here in republic called Performance Cycle they've got an inhouse machine shop so everything can be done in house. I will also look into the 425. anyone else got anymore info on any of these?

[Steve-o 400EX]

My best advice to you is go for the 416. It is the most bang for the buck, a 440 will need a little bit of extra cash to get it up to its peak perfromance. I dont recomend going to a 425 just yet either because if ur motor ever goes then you will need to resleeve because 425 is the max the cylinder will bore. A 425 will not give you much more power than a 416 anyhow, just a little more bottom end. I know i love mine, look at my sig to see what i got goin on. I am about to get my stock carb bored too so that should help a little bit. Good luck with it.

[Ex'r Marlin]

Originally posted by Steve-o 400EX
I dont recomend going to a 425 just yet either because if ur motor ever goes then you will need to resleeve because 425 is the max the cylinder will bore.
That makes sense to me too.

Anyway, good luck! I am sure which ever way you go, you will have a noticeable improvement.:macho

[foleyit]

Originally posted by Steve-o 400EX
My best advice to you is go for the 416. It is the most bang for the buck, a 440 will need a little bit of extra cash to get it up to its peak perfromance.

I agree with Steve-o here regarding the 416. That is the route that I went, and still have some $$$ for the FCR carb.

[EXtreme]

what all do i need to have done if i go 416 ( cam ect.)?
what more do i need to have done more than the 416 if i go 440?

[Steve-o 400EX]

This is my 416 setup-

JE 10.8:1 Piston kit------------------ 120
Hotcams stage II-------------------- 125
XR gasket kit------------------------- 40
new jets----------------------------- 10
Cylinder Bore------------------------- 50
oil and oil filter----------------------- 15
Labor--------------------------------- 0
Approxamate total------------------ 360

The 440 you will need all of these things with the additional-

39 FCR
Head port and polish
New sleeve
Valves and springs
Definately a full exhaust
You will want the crank done to make sure that it will hold up
Heavy duty timing chain

There are probably more things but if you look up the prices this costs an arm and a leg more. You CAN run a 440 like the 416 but i bet you would be beaten in a drag race by a stock 400 because the 440 motor needs this stuff to operate to its full potential. The 416 is closer to stock to it can survive on that setup. Now eventually I do recommend a carb and a port job on a 416 but its not manditory to get the performance out of it, which it WILL give with these other parts. Dont get me wrong i'm not bashin the 440 at all its a great strong motor but it costs much more to bring it to life.

Another route to getting a 440 is doing a 416 and stroking it to 440 which is a great motor but this is also a pricey route.

Good luck and just ask if you have any more questions

[Crawl69]

My buddy has the CT Racing 440 kit, and he didn't really notice a big difference when he bought a 39 FCR. I've read on here myself that a fine tuned stock carb will work fine with a 440. I'm probably going to have my carb bored not that I'm putting a 440 kit in my quad.

[EXtreme]

Originally posted by Steve-o 400EX
This is my 416 setup-

JE 10.8:1 Piston kit------------------ 120
Hotcams stage II-------------------- 125
XR gasket kit------------------------- 40
new jets----------------------------- 10
Cylinder Bore------------------------- 50
oil and oil filter----------------------- 15
Labor--------------------------------- 0
Approxamate total------------------ 360

The 440 you will need all of these things with the additional-

39 FCR
Head port and polish
New sleeve
Valves and springs
Definately a full exhaust
You will want the crank done to make sure that it will hold up
Heavy duty timing chain

There are probably more things but if you look up the prices this costs an arm and a leg more. You CAN run a 440 like the 416 but i bet you would be beaten in a drag race by a stock 400 because the 440 motor needs this stuff to operate to its full potential. The 416 is closer to stock to it can survive on that setup. Now eventually I do recommend a carb and a port job on a 416 but its not manditory to get the performance out of it, which it WILL give with these other parts. Dont get me wrong i'm not bashin the 440 at all its a great strong motor but it costs much more to bring it to life.

Another route to getting a 440 is doing a 416 and stroking it to 440 which is a great motor but this is also a pricey route.

Good luck and just ask if you have any more questions



what does it mean to stroke a 416 to a 440?

[f1502nv]

im going the 416 route....je 11.1 .......sparks cam..........fcr carb.........heavy duty valve springs and timing chain.....port work......i went for the 46 cause you can always go up to a 425 without resleeveing it.....thats for the next time i go through it :D :D ...just my 2 cents

[Steve-o 400EX]

Originally posted by f1502nv
im going the 416 route....je 11.1 .......sparks cam..........fcr carb.........heavy duty valve springs and timing chain.....port work......i went for the 46 cause you can always go up to a 425 without resleeveing it.....thats for the next time i go through it :D :D ...just my 2 cents

I agree. ITs the best route to go.


Stroking it to a 440 means you are going to do a 416 bore and then you are going to stroke the bottom end to give it the higher displacement.

[YZROOSTINYA]

true and false. There are MANY factors that will make you motor good or bad.

cam - Depending on what cam you have is going to play a good role as to how your motor performs. a stage one cam will give you smoother all around power with a strong top end.

a stage 2 cam will give you more power up top and possibly a HIT in the mid to upper rev range.

exhaust - a large diameter head pipe will help with higher rpm operation. A stock or similar diameter head pipe will help with low end snap.

compression - 99% of it comes down to this. if you run a stock bore with 13:1 compared to a 440 with 9:1 compression. all else set up equally the stock bored motor will SMOKE the 440.

the problem is that people talk about motor size and not the components.

if you do a 440 with the same compression and cam and exhaust as a 416. the 440 will be more powerful everywhere over the 416.

the 416 will most likely see a peak HP slightly higher in the RPM curve over the 440.

406 416 426. what to do. When you bore your sleeve(the metal insert inside the cylinder that the piston slides up and down in) you make it thinner. what happens when you have less metal and more heat. it gets hot. less metal also dissipates heat less efficiently. this is why with a higher compression piston you should run a dpr9z spark plug over the 8. the 9 is a cooler plug and allows the head to run a little cooler.


440's. there not really 440's. there 435 i believe. the sleeve is more expensive and generally the piston is heavier.(some are true 440's)

more weight to spin up in the motor slows your revs down.


the reason I went to a 416. about 20ccs over stock(397 is stock). still a good bit of thickness to the sleeve so overheating is not as much of a problem. I can do it myself(i do not have the tools to resleeve a cylinder) cost effective.

i was not worried about having room left if something goes wrong. if my ring decides to no longer be friends with my piston at 9000 rpm. .040" of a inch is VERY little room when things start banging around in there.

I run a mix of race fuel. 1 gallon to 4 gallons of 93. i am at about 10.8:1 compression.

I am using the xr head gasket and a stock base. I am prob more like 10.5:1.

use the ex head gasket if you DO NOT want to run race fuel.

the reason why the YFZ450 has 11.9:1 compression without race fuel is because it is water cooled. a MUCH MORE controlled environment. Plus head and piston design has alot to do with it.

If I was going to do a 440 it would be a 416 stoked. but then you going into the bottom end$$$$$$$$$$$$$


just my .02$.


I could be completely wrong so dont listen to me.

[hook]

good info pat yourself on the back.

[cals400ex]

yz, you say you have a 10.8 compression piston with thinner gaskets but your compression is only about 10.5?? why is that??

[YZROOSTINYA]

the ex and xr 400 are the same motor cylinder wise. stock ex compression is 9.1:1 and the xr is 9.5:1. the only diff is the head gasket. the cam is diff too but ....

the JE 416 kit is for a xr400/ex400. advertised at 10.8:1

I would imagine there are referring to a xr400 head gasket and no the ex400 head gasket.


I heard that you have to shave the head .030" or get rid of the base gasket to have a true 10.8:1 compression with the xr head gasket.

I have never checked mine so I may be at 10.8:1 as it is now. just what i have gathered after reading some of the engine builders posts.


ex head gasket is .040 and the xr is .025 i think.?????

[cals400ex]

i didn't know that all of that was needed to be runnning the 10.8 compression.

[03400EX_Nacs]

when you are talking about pistons such as 12:1, 11:1, and 10:1 what are the differences? what do they do for you and what would the best for quality over a long period of time be for your quad?

[YZROOSTINYA]

compression ratio is how much air/fuel mixture is compressed in the cylinder.

it is like how much the air volume is reduced. if you take a can of soda 3 inches tall and crush it into one inch that would be like 3 :1 .

you take the overall volume of the cylinder + head volume then dived it by head volume and that is your CR,

The higher the CR the higher octaner fuel required and the more power the motor can make.

the higher the CR the more stress is put on the crank and head bolts and cylinder studs.


you can go up to about 11:1 on a stock rod pretty safely. anything above that will def require race fuel and start putting a good bit of load on your crank.

10:1 - 11:1 are pretty good ratios for longevity and performance