head gasket anyone

[kenny]

i just put a 440 kit in my quad.i was told to use a stock head gasket which was purchased from a reputable atv shop.advising me to use it.i sprayed with copper kote torqued to 38 ft psi.5 more than specs. went to the dunes and blew the gasket.i knew it was wrong when i put it together.it hung off into comb chamber.needless to say my question is how thick is a stock head gasket.im thinking of ordering a copper gasket online e bay.he says they can make about 5 different thicknesses.should i measure thckness of a new gasket.or the thickness of my gasket used.are copper gaskets better than shim type

[Glamis400ex]

Get ahold of C&D Racing here on the board and get the Cometic Flexsteel gasket. No copper needed and no re-torquing needed after break in.

Glamis

[Chanman420q]

with the steel flex gaskets do u need to tourge them down, or can it just be put on snug

[Glamis400ex]

um...well, snug like what?? Finger tight??:confused: Torque to 32 pounds and you'll be fine. After I did the HD studs by FDO, I've had zero probs.

Glamis

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by Chanman420q
with the steel flex gaskets do u need to tourge them down, or can it just be put on snug

You should ALWAYS torque head gaskets!

[Chanman420q]

i dont mean like just spin with the fingers, but give them a good tighten with the ratchet

[Glamis400ex]

Use a torque wrench unless you like tearing your shizzle apart every time you ride.

Glamis

[kenny]

buy a torque wrench

[Chanman420q]

i was just wondering if these steel flex gaskets were like away around tourging...

[Glamis400ex]

no, they are the way around re-torquing after a break in. Any other gasket will require a re-torque. I did my head gasket for the second time now and have over 30 hours with zero problems. No leaks or re-torque. Worth the extra couple bux.

Glamis

[PATTE440]

After i do belive 7 blown head gasktes of all types and talking with SPARKS, THUMPER RACING, TRINITY, GT THUNDER, LRD i finally got it fixed and it was from a local guy that told me to try this. when the sleeve i bought was put in the sleeve was much larger then the orignal and it went right b were the dowl pins go and this guy told me to grind the dowl pins th were they can hit the sleeve so i ground part of em flat and a lil of the end and after the i have ran the piss out of it in 8 races and not had a trouble. The oversized studs did not fix it for me i tried them and still have them in and i believe they help. but they did not fix it cuz i blew 2 with the studs in.

[kenny]

what about a copper gasket any one ran one.what about thickness.

[2004TRX450R]

Originally posted by PATTE440
The oversized studs did not fix it for me i tried them and still have them in and i believe they help.

So you ran the oversized studs but no dowl pins? I have installed a couple big bore kits on the TRX and XR 400 and I usually just grind the small portion of the sleeve that goes into the area of the dowl pin so that the dowl pin will fit in it's hole. I wouldn't grind on the dowl pin itself and would never not put them in. Are the over sized studs supposed to keep the head centered without the dowl pins or is it supposed to just be able to hold more pressue?

[Glamis400ex]

FDO Racing did my HD studs and the stock dowels still fit just fine. The HD studs they use are longer and have a very coarse thread, unlike the OEM honda which uses a fine thread. Seems to be holding well, granted it's only 11:1 comp., but lots of folks on here have blown numerous gaskets with ...just a 11:1 compression.

A buddy of mine tried the Sparks"fix" for the ever-looseing exhaust stud and found after he got it back, it was a joke and it blew again. I guess that's the difference between a $15 dollar fix and a $100 dollar fix.

Glamis

[PATTE440]

Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
So you ran the oversized studs but no dowl pins? I have installed a couple big bore kits on the TRX and XR 400 and I usually just grind the small portion of the sleeve that goes into the area of the dowl pin so that the dowl pin will fit in it's hole. I wouldn't grind on the dowl pin itself and would never not put them in. Are the over sized studs supposed to keep the head centered without the dowl pins or is it supposed to just be able to hold more pressue?

No the oversized studs will not center it. I do have both dowel pins in and it is pretty hard to grind the sleeve when it is installed. I didn’t grind that much off of them just a flat spot where it would be hitting the sleeve and a lil bit of the end. We set the head on with no studs just dowel pins and I dot remember what the gap was but we could get a lot of feeler gauges in the gap more then the thickness of the gasket. After I would get the motor running as soon as it got warm the nuts would back off the studs even with loc tite and blow the gasket

[F-16Guy]

You should not use a stock bore gasket on a 440. Cometic offers the flex steel gasket in several different bore sizes, including 89mm, which is what you should have used. If most of the fire ring is hanging in the cylinder, you can't expect it to not blow. Being off slightly one way or the other is okay, but ideally you want the gasket to match the bore perfectly. A stock bore gasket on a 4mm overbore is definitely not good. Order the correct gasket from C&D, check the studs to make sure they're okay, and put everything back together. I like to torque heads in three or four increments until I've reached the recommended torque setting.

[jchevy]

Originally posted by kenny
torqued to 38 ft psi.5 more than specs.

Since you over torqued the head studs it is very possible that you pulled the stud out of the jug a little bit which caused the gasket to blow. This same thing happened to me and i had to use a heli-coil to fix the ruined threads in the cylinder.

[Glamis400ex]

agreed 100%.^^^^^ That aluminum is soft.

Glamis

[2004TRX450R]

I don't think 5 ft/lbs is going to pull the threads. Aluminum is soft but not that soft.

[cals400ex]

i think mickey checks the studs by going to 40 ft lbs to check that they are not pulling out.