best project quad?

[Porkchop]

I'd like to buy a used quad to rebuild from the ground up for the sand, that would be some-what cheap to do but still haul arse. i was debating between the banshee or 250r. the 250r would be alittle bit less maintence free cause i'd only have one cylinder, but maybe im wrong... any help guys?? I want a sleeper :devil:

[MarkyNark]

I think if I was going to buy a used quad to re-build, I would probably consider a 2 stroke and something that was popular and had plenty of aftermarket parts- The 250R is a really good choice. You may also consider the 400EX - lots of parts available for it - even though its a 4 stroke.

[86350x]

Originally posted by Porkchop
I'd like to buy a used quad to rebuild from the ground up for the sand, that would be some-what cheap to do but still haul arse. i was debating between the banshee or 250r. the 250r would be alittle bit less maintence free cause i'd only have one cylinder, but maybe im wrong... any help guys?? I want a sleeper :devil:

Well it depends on what you can get cheaper. A ported banshee, with stock looking plastic and black paul turners would be a good sleeper.

To get an r to really haul, you pretty much have to go big bore. wich will eliminate the "sleeper" disguise. Some people get wild porting and run alchy, but it's expensive and they don't last.

I think you could get a ratted out shee cheaper also.

[zfire_28]

yep, do the banshee, if your wanting a sleeper

[AndrewRRR]

Banshee's have the most potential if you want to keep it stock bore/stroke, but people expect banshees to be fast which kind of kills the whole sleeper idea. They are spendy to mod too. $500-$700 for pipes, $400-$600 for carbs, $200 pistons, etc.
250r's are good for sleepers, but unless you want to get some radical porting and run alcohol you are going to have trouble with built banshees.

[86350x]

Lol, well from what I read on these, and another popular yamaha forum. Built 250r's and yfz's are killing built banshee's. LMAO.

So now the banshee rider is the underdog agian.

I'd say he could pick up a used banshee, some used pipes and other misc parts cheaper then buying up an r and having to purchase a different cylinder ect.

You can get away with using stock carbs for some port jobs, but I still think flat slides are the way to go for peak power running GAS.

[4TraxRider]

I had a Quadzilla that was always a project to keep running, but when it did, it went. It was a sleeper around here because nobody even knew what it was, or they though it was a weird sounding LT250R. Totally stock i could take my buddies piped banshee.

[Atreyu]

There aren't too many project 250r's around anymore. There are tons of beat-up old banshees dying too be rebuilt though. I picked mine up for $500. Its a 1990 and had lots of stuff.. just weathered and rusted. Makes a good project.

[Smokin 440]

TRX 90!!! LMAO drop a cr 250 engine in and ur good to go, and u'd need a lil magic weeeeeeeeee button LMAO :cool:

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by 86350x
Lol, well from what I read on these, and another popular yamaha forum. Built 250r's and yfz's are killing built banshee's. LMAO.

So now the banshee rider is the underdog agian.


I don't know about them killing built banshees, maybe piped ones. If they are built, they have an extremely crappy engine builder. Most of ours are 80-105hp, trust me there aren't any YFZ's yet that can come close, and VERY few 250r's.
My 350r can hang with our banshees pretty well but it has a ton of money into it. With this much money in a banshee i'd probably be over the 100hp mark.
YFZ's are pretty cool but when it comes to modifying 4 strokes there are very few that can put out these power levels without taking out a mortgage on your house.

[86350x]

I'm estimating mine is in the mid 60's. I haven't raced a yfz yet, but I have beat several souped up r's.

I was kind of joking around, but I see what ya mean. How much faster is your new shee then your r?

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by 86350x
I'm estimating mine is in the mid 60's. I haven't raced a yfz yet, but I have beat several souped up r's.

I was kind of joking around, but I see what ya mean. How much faster is your new shee then your r?

I'm hoping to find that out this weekend. I have a feeling they will be pretty close. I threw some new rings in the shee friday and the porting Packard did is pretty amazing. It definately needed the cylinders built up, the transfers are monsters and the boost ports would have gone clear through to the outside of the cyl!
Now I'm starting to think about putting one of the bikes on an alcohol diet :devil:
I may have found a 40mm lectron set up for alky for the R for $150... we'll see.

[sparks400ex101]

ive raced many yfz'swith cammopds and pipes, and other things, and havent had a problem yet ive raced many modded shee's and when it comes to unlimited funds the banshee is the way to go!

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by sparks400ex101
ive raced many yfz'swith cammopds and pipes, and other things, and havent had a problem yet ive raced many modded shee's and when it comes to unlimited funds the banshee is the way to go!

what's a cammopd? :huh

[86350x]

Lol!

Hey andrew, next time you have that thing apart snap some pictures. If the porting is that wild, how many hrs can you get out of the motor?

And what about running alchy? How much more hp do you get, what all needs to be changed. And how much less reliable does it make it. If I rode dunes all the time I'd go full mod. But what I have right now is wild enough for riding through the trees.

If you have some pics of the bikes ect,

Mail em to Honda@avci.net

The only other things I'll do to mine next time it comes apart is go to a long rod crank, and maybe a different head for interchangeable domes. I'm still learning about all the options I have available to me on this motor.

Building up snowmobiles is actually easier.:huh

[biohazard1.2]

Originally posted by sparks400ex101
ive raced many yfz'swith cammopds and pipes, and other things, and havent had a problem yet ive raced many modded shee's and when it comes to unlimited funds the banshee is the way to go!

http://www.atvflorida.org/yabbimages/smilies/Disapprove.gif

on your 400ex? "that thing got a hemi?"

[MarkyNark]

SWWEEEEEET

[ledofthezep]

Lol, well from what I read on these, and another popular yamaha forum. Built 250r's and yfz's are killing built banshee's. LMAO.

That is funny...:macho :blah: :D

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by 86350x
Lol!

Hey andrew, next time you have that thing apart snap some pictures. If the porting is that wild, how many hrs can you get out of the motor?

And what about running alchy? How much more hp do you get, what all needs to be changed. And how much less reliable does it make it. If I rode dunes all the time I'd go full mod. But what I have right now is wild enough for riding through the trees.

If you have some pics of the bikes ect,

Mail em to Honda@avci.net

The only other things I'll do to mine next time it comes apart is go to a long rod crank, and maybe a different head for interchangeable domes. I'm still learning about all the options I have available to me on this motor.

Building up snowmobiles is actually easier.:huh

I'll see if I can get some new pics this weekend. You can get a good amount of time out of wild porting, probably as long as with any other setup as long as you maintain it. The main things that will kill you are contamination in your incoming charge (or lack of oil) and excessive heat. If the porting is not done right, like the person went way too wide on the exhaust, the piston can rock back and forth and catch a ring on the port edge and shatter things. That's due to an improper port job however.
The rule of thumb for alky is a 20% hp gain (provided you increase compression and tune it properly). The downsides are you go through alky 2 1/2 times faster than gas (less energy per unit of fuel so you need more). Also, because alcohol is hydroscopic (attracts water) you have to flush your engine with a rich gas/oil mixture every night and either train the fuel tank or plug the vent so it's air tight.
You need a bigger fuel petcock and/or a fuel pump, a carb setup for alky (usually by adding a power jet), and increased compression. It's hard to determine how reliable alky is because usually the bikes that run it are so modded you don't know if it's the alky or all their mods that account for the downtime. Usually when we have our bikes apart at the dunes we are tuning something, i'm sure most people think we are trying to fix something that broke as they ride by
:blah:

[86350x]

Sounds pretty cool, There are some pics of the intake side in an old thread I put on here.

It's ported and the windows in my pistons are cut to match it. All I can really do is the ocassional compression test. I take good care of all of my bikes, and nothing has went up on me yet (knock on wood)

Some people hate golden spectro, but I run it 50 to 1 in all of my 2 strokes. I run it with a race (110 octane) and premium pump mix. 2 gallons of premium pump to 3 gallons of race gas.

What carbs, intake setup are you running on that banshee, and what is the displacement and compression ratio. If I lived closer to silver lake, I'd look into alcohol. But for what I do, I'll stick to gas.

And on the last comment, maybe that's why there are alot of lamers that say banshee's are nothing but problems. I was told the blow up constanly and have crank problems left and right.

After I got mine, I was like:huh Other then the warped reeds Nothing has gone wrong with it yet. You wouldn't believe how cheap I got it either.

[AndrewRRR]

It has Keihin 35mm PJ carbs with trinity stage 4 intake manifolds. It's .060 over right now (364cc i believe) but I'm having compression issues, I think it's time to bore. I might just punch it out to .100 since it won't be long before I do a big bore sleeve kit and probably a stroker crank. I had about 150psi, but I'm gonna take it up to 180-190 since I run 110 octane in the bikes.
Here's a pic of the side of the motor. It's built up on the sides (usually it looks like a butt crack, this one is solid and sticks out further) to make room for the transfers. The front near the intake is built up to add bracing and make room for the boost ports that were added (they are big, without the extra material the boost ports would go completely through the cylinder side).
The top of the intake bridge also has a big port added. The exhaust port is very wide, hopefully it won't be a problem. Last trip out I ran about even with my friend's dune ported 400cc T-rex banshee. I was having clutch problems though, I had to let completely off to shift, and my jetting was off. I'm going to get my shift star cut soon to help that, and lighten my flywheel.
http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/AndrewRRR/motorside.jpg

[86350x]

That's pretty cool andrew, thanks for the pics.

Maybe after you go to a different sleeve you should consider nikasil for some extra life? Might help with the wild porting.

And a hinson clutch basket and hub. I will probrably eventually lighten the flywheel on mine, as well as at least installing a billet basket for 2nd or 3rd gear launches. No problems thus far. I run amsoil synthetic in my tranny. Shifts wide open like butter.

Make sure you snap a pic or two of the inside, I bet it looks pretty cool.

[sparks400ex101]

no on my raptor smart *** :D and i meant to say cam mod, you could have figured that out!

[AndrewRRR]

I thought about nikasil but I dunno on this one. My R has it done. The problem is you can't just bore a nikasil cylinder, you have to get it re-plated and crap. If you end up changing stuff around a lot that can get expensive.
I have amsoil in the tranny of this and my R. I am gonna try doing the shift star mod and maybe i'll look into a clutch basket. I will probably need an lockup clutch if what I have planned comes through.
Say hello to my leetle friend!:macho http://pictureposter.allbrand.nu/pictures/AndrewRRR/BansheeIntake1.jpg

[86350x]

Awesome. i'll put pics up of mine tommorow. Yep, those are some wild looking ports. I have the windows on my pistons ported also, but don't have the addtional ports on the sides of the cylinders you do.

Nice looking work there:cool:

[86350x]

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64265

I think image station is still down, but here are some pics of it. Not as good as yours though. The porting is on the mild side compared to yours also. But it holds it's own.:macho

[Chef]

The Banshee would definitely be best for motor. If I had the money thats in my R motor in my Banshee motor, I could have a 800cc Crankenstein and be makin twice as much HP. :(

[86350x]

I need to get some cammopds for my old warrior:D J/k

I heard that crankensteins don't hold together for crap, and are just expensive money pits. I guess as always it depends on the builder.

What do you have done to your shee and r now?:confused:

[Chef]

Originally posted by 86350x
What do you have done to your shee and r now?:confused:

My R is a PSI 425. My Banshee is just bolt on stuff. (Cool Head, Pipes, Timing Advance, Air Filter, Pro Flo, TORS Eliminator)

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by 86350x
Awesome. i'll put pics up of mine tommorow. Yep, those are some wild looking ports. I have the windows on my pistons ported also, but don't have the addtional ports on the sides of the cylinders you do.

Nice looking work there:cool:

Thanks. Yeah those boost ports aren't stock in banshees like they are in 250r's. You have to drill them then port em. It also helps to build up the outside of the cylinder around there so it's not paper-thin and so you don't blow the top end off the motor. haha.
The motor is going under the scalpel again for some little finishing touches to get me a few extra ponies. Also boring it and getting triple coated wiseco prolites that are gonna be ported to match. It should be pretty impressive for a 350 on gas.

[86350x]

That is a great pic, don't be camera shy when you pull it apart either, mine will get torn down again at the end of next summer, and I'll now know what to have done, or what can be done. If the crank is bad, I'll go to a pluss 4 mm. I see what you mean on the need four building up the sides of the cylinders.

The intake on my bike is radical enough that wilder porting should only do good, and no bad as far as power goes.

Tripple coated prolights:confused: Fill me in there boss, where did you get them? How much more are they then regular prolights? I see why you'd deffinantly would want some thicker then normal piston skirts.

If you have the time, please bust out the camera when the parts arive, and the motor is apart.

[86350x]

Originally posted by Chef
My R is a PSI 425. My Banshee is just bolt on stuff. (Cool Head, Pipes, Timing Advance, Air Filter, Pro Flo, TORS Eliminator)

PSI 425, Are you running 2 radiators with that setup? It would be cool to see an all big bore r drag race. Andrews vs yours. That must make your banshee look pretty slow?

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by 86350x
PSI 425, Are you running 2 radiators with that setup? It would be cool to see an all big bore r drag race. Andrews vs yours. That must make your banshee look pretty slow?

Yeah that's what I keep telling him too, I think he's skeered! haha. Come on man, take off the TT swingarm and come down to Oregon so we can race!
The pistons are regular pro-lites but there is a local guy who puts 3 different coatings on them for $35 a piston. One for the dome surface, one for the skirt, and one for the ring area. Supposedly it saves a lot of wear on the bore, and I looked at a piston that was running the coating that should have had a hole in it but didn't because of the stuff, so I figure why not. We are gonna alter the window and the bottom of the skirts a little to clear the intake and boost ports better, get some more flow.
I got some pics of it apart on my camera, just gotta find the cord so I can DL them!
I'm looking forward to running my R against the shee pretty soon. I have a bad feeling the banshee is gonna win, but we'll see!

[TrailBreaker70]

If you want a sleeper look for a Blaster frame and slap another engine in it. There are quite a few different ones that you can do it with.:)

[Chef]

Originally posted by 86350x
PSI 425, Are you running 2 radiators with that setup? It would be cool to see an all big bore r drag race. Andrews vs yours. That must make your banshee look pretty slow?

Yea, my Banshee is a slug compared to it...lol. I'm running it with a Pro Series Per4mance radiator. Its twice as thick as stock, aluminum, and a double pass radiator. The water is forced up one side, and down the other, before it can go back to the motor.

Andrew: Your R better be alot faster than an ESR 370:devil: :blah:

[AndrewRRR]

Originally posted by Chef

Andrew: Your R better be alot faster than an ESR 370:devil: :blah:

I dunno I haven't raced an ESR370, but I have beat a lot of really built banshees :D
I definately gotta get a +8 swingarm though, I either have to sit up on the tank and fry the tires through the first few gears, or sit back on the seat and instantly flip over backwards with this +4.

[86350x]

Originally posted by Chef
Yea, my Banshee is a slug compared to it...lol. I'm running it with a Pro Series Per4mance radiator. Its twice as thick as stock, aluminum, and a double pass radiator. The water is forced up one side, and down the other, before it can go back to the motor.

Andrew: Your R better be alot faster than an ESR 370:devil: :blah:

Sounds like your ex is faster then the shee also. Your raptor and shee are near stock, and they have more hop up potential then the bikes you have built:p

Well I know built r's are well worth it, but you need to invest more into the shee:D

You two need to line em up!, get those pics up soon too andrew.

[ddbyrd]

I would do the 250R, your "return on investment" is better spent on an "R".
Also depends on the type of riding you do, I have a slightly modded 88 "R", build anything cant touch me when we are slicen thru the dunes.
But when we line up in a straight line, I see tail lights, and get sand in my face.
Just depends on what ya want to do with it.

but tham again I am bias. Go with the "R", an 88 or 89.