View Full Version : Your opinion on Electric cars?
speedy400
11-19-2003, 08:09 AM
Need this for gay english class, please respond with your opinion.thanks-darren
Originally posted by speedy400
Need this for gay english class, please respond with your opinion.thanks-darren
if your talking about automobiles, then I say its a joke. Those hybrids only get 45-55mpg. A VW Golf TDI easily gets 48+ mpg... much bigger, nicer and powerful car. The US needs to consider turbo diesel engines for fuel efficency with passenger cars... forget that hybrid crap.
Pappy
11-19-2003, 08:18 AM
they havent quite got the battery powered vehicles good enough to be turned loose to consumers yet. they can build one that meets all the requirements the governement has set forth with the exception of price and the availibilty to offer consumers the needed support thru-out the country for the battery power. they can get away with the car in a metro area but that limits the consumer to staying close to the city or risk being in tim-buck-two without any of the proper facilities to handle a problem with the said car. a more popular choice that is already in production is the HYBRID car that uses both a conventional engine coupled with battery power. i have driven these and they arent bad for a city driver.
stiffy
11-19-2003, 08:54 AM
If you can get a electric car to pump out major horse power and lay a huge strip of rubber and be loud enough to make old ladies wet there pants then I'm all for it.
Cody_300ex
11-19-2003, 10:17 AM
I think they suck dog chit. Mainly becuase you could run out of charge and you would have to get towed to a place to get charged and pay a decent of $$$, but if ya got a gas or diesel alls ya got to do is get a ride to the next fuel station, buy a gas can, fill it up, get them to take ya back to ya car. With the elecrtic car you spent 150 bucks gettin towed, and you only spent about 50 bucks max.:o
wilkin250r
11-19-2003, 10:32 AM
Pappy said it. The current infrastructure in the US doesn't support electric cars. You're not going to find an "electric" station in some hillbilly town in the sticks. Also, it's simply not as easy as gas, you can't "recharge" a car in 3 mins. And, if I'm not mistaken, the batteries typically don't last as long as a tank of gas, so they need to be recharged MORE often. Yeah, you can add more batteries, but then your car is heavier, so you need a bigger electric motor, which takes more power, which requires more batteries, which makes the car heavier, so you need a bigger electric motor...
Look at fast food, and microwaves. We are a nation of convenience, and electric cars simply aren't convenient.
Originally posted by wilkin250r
Pappy said it. The current infrastructure in the US doesn't support electric cars.
One of many reasons why our country should look a diesel engines as options for all vehicles. If TDI engines were available for SUV's, the fuel consumption would be cut in half...easily. Dont get me confused with an EPA wacko... I just really think auto company's need to offer this option more. The fuel is already out there....the service stations are already out there...today's diesels are very quiet and clean... you get more power per MPG with diesels.... I think I could go on and on.... :D
lil400exman
11-19-2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by MOFO
One of many reasons why our country should look a diesel engines as options for all vehicles. If TDI engines were available for SUV's, the fuel consumption would be cut in half...easily. Dont get me confused with an EPA wacko... I just really think auto company's need to offer this option more. The fuel is already out there....the service stations are already out there...today's diesels are very quiet and clean... you get more power per MPG with diesels.... I think I could go on and on.... :D
besides they wound great too and the smell i work with heavy equipment although not TDI still a great thing!:devil:
airheadedduner
11-19-2003, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by speedy400
please respond with your opinion
ahahahahahahahahahahaha ah, electirc cars :P
Not a viable option...yet. Not enough recharge stations, rechageing takes forever, not good enough range, gutless. Like mofo keeps saying, diesels are the way to go. The tdi is a great car. My dad carpools with a guy that has one. It gets great millage and has decent power. The newer generation diesels are so much quieter then they used to be and smoke much less on start up.
400exrules
11-19-2003, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by stiffy
If you can get a electric car to pump out major horse power and lay a huge strip of rubber and be loud enough to make old ladies wet there pants then I'm all for it.
yup yup, i wouldnt be able to stand driving something i cant hear......that would be weird :huh
seatec
11-19-2003, 02:23 PM
we could include a cd with car noises for ya ! lol
if you want to introduce an electric car you need to do it the way we did with gas powered cars. first only use them around metro areas where you can exchange your batteries for charged ones. (*that solves the re-chareg time problem) and then slowly expand into the suburbs and finally to the hicks. Maybe subsidise people who want to open a battery charge/exchange station.
member
11-19-2003, 04:00 PM
they are to slow...
ranger400ex
11-19-2003, 04:10 PM
too slow my *****...worlds fastest street legal car is electric. check your facts before opening the trap.
Pappy hit it on the dot, battery technology is slowed in the last couple years, and with the $$ it takes to develp new means, most manufacturers will throw it into more effiecient gas/diesel/hybid cars combos.
PS
I developed, worked, and raced an electric car for several years in college. We would test it at IRP,and a couple runs at indy during the race off-season. It would eat anything on the track as far as acceleration torque hp, but it was pretty bad when militay half-shafts like those in 6x6 carriers couldn't hold up to the torque numbers. I have a pic somewhere of the center of a WELD race wheel and halfshaft, both twisted from doing a standing burnout until the CV grenaded.
ben
member
11-19-2003, 04:23 PM
can prove the worlds fastest car is electric,.. and besides you would probably have to fork over some money for "the worlds fastest car":eek:
ranger400ex
11-19-2003, 04:31 PM
street legal car....we worked hand in hand with Wilde evolutions developing their drag RX7 along with another old camaro that would haul arse. our extensive inverter and battery testing/comparisons for the race team, were used by them. it was pretty bad *****. hit the start button for the computer torque sequence, and hold on. 300V DC converted to AC through DC/AC inverter. 5 motors in series on one drive shaft to the pumpkin. it would **** and get. our electric race car, lola chassis would put out over 1000lb ft of torque if it wasn't limited by the inverter programming. remember that an electric motor has full torque and hp from 0rpm up...it doesn't have to develop it like a gas engine.
ben
03400EX_Nacs
11-19-2003, 04:48 PM
i dont have a problem with them....:huh
my opinion is we shoudl send em all to massachussets and let the fairys drive fairy cars
Originally posted by freeride132
my opinion is we shoudl send em all to massachussets and let the fairys drive fairy cars
dont leave California out...
member
11-19-2003, 04:56 PM
Originally posted by ranger400ex
street legal car....we worked hand in hand with Wilde evolutions developing their drag RX7 along with another old camaro that would haul arse. our extensive inverter and battery testing/comparisons for the race team, were used by them. it was pretty bad *****. hit the start button for the computer torque sequence, and hold on. 300V DC converted to AC through DC/AC inverter. 5 motors in series on one drive shaft to the pumpkin. it would **** and get. our electric race car, lola chassis would put out over 1000lb ft of torque if it wasn't limited by the inverter programming. remember that an electric motor has full torque and hp from 0rpm up...it doesn't have to develop it like a gas engine.
ben
yea how much juice did it take to power it? how much money did it cost to build it, and how do you know its the fastest street legal car eva?
ranger400ex
11-20-2003, 06:35 AM
I will have to bow out, as it is obvious I know nothing, and you are the all abundant king of knowledge.......
Oh wise 10-16 year old...tell us how the earth was formed, and the heavens divided....we await the glory of your knowledge.....
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by ranger400ex
I will have to bow out, as it is obvious I know nothing, and you are the all abundant king of knowledge.......
Oh wise 10-16 year old...tell us how the earth was formed, and the heavens divided....we await the glory of your knowledge.....
:rolleyes:
ahhh screw him...
I'm very interested in your project... please tell more. :)
member
11-20-2003, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by member
yea how much juice did it take to power it? how much money did it cost to build it, and how do you know its the fastest street legal car eva?
dude are you retarded?:confused: ,...lol... i was just wandering cuz wouldnt a elctric car that made 1000lb ft. of tourqe?? just my thougths but wouldnt that take alot of power to even turn?
and and thank you for being like the billionth person to realize im the all abundant king of knowledge:devil:
Pappy
11-20-2003, 07:36 AM
the batteries that are being developed for the newer cars arent standard lead acid like in your momma's car. these are constructed of alloys and they use AGM technology that was originally designed for NASA.
as far as swapping out batteries? at a minumum in most of the prototype cars ive laid hands on there were anywhere from 6 to 18 batteries. the way its heading now is that there will be 2 battery packs each housing batteries. the recharge rates on the newer technology batteries is a killer to the program also. imagine being low on available current and having a 12 to 18 hour charge cycle:eek2:
standard cars and trucks available this year will start having 42 volt charging systems to power the electronics of todays vehicles. imagine yer pop's pullining into wally's garage and wally telling him he needs 3 batteries and the bill is $250. still not bad considering the cost of some of the concept car batteries is over $12,000 a pop:huh
ranger400ex
11-20-2003, 08:53 AM
12,000 that is cheap compared to some of the batteries we tested for Johnson Controls battery program, and methode (Chrysler)
Yeah pap, the charging is the whole new ball game, the tester/charger/fully programmable "Current" source we used cost 2.5million new...pretty awesome though, at the time it was one of the 4 in existence in the world. it could charge,cycle, discharge,run anything from a small watch battery to 1500volt pack system. All computer setup...programs took anywhere from a couple minutes to several days to program. The cool part is that we could "save" alot of dead batteries, that most people had given up on. blast em for less than a 1/10 of a second with high current/voltage repeat this for several cycles, charge, drain, repeat..repeat...then normal charge up cycle. talk about getting the crud off the plates!! the cool thing is it usually tripped the schools mains if we ever had to zap the packs for the car, or when we used it to keep the car at full blast on the dyno.
PS
We had two electric s-10s "Lowered and bad*****" that we used for shop trucks, and to show at IRP during Truck Bash, won two years in a row. kinda cool during burnouts with only the sound of two tires ripping up the pavement, and a slight RC car type engine wine
Two electric urban vehicles designed by us and disney engineers for the communities in disneyland (Each homeowner received one as part of their home "lease" deal"
two of the orginal EV1's from delphi to play with, tear up, and someday to return to delphi unscathed (yeah right)
and of course and electric MC an old honda goldwing converted over, but the project never got finished.
member
11-20-2003, 03:52 PM
what about this? you guys know what an alternator on a engine is right? well, why can you hook a big alternator to the wheels so that when they turn it also charges the battries back up some,.. i know it's not gonna recharge them all the way but couldnt it get you a little farther?
Originally posted by member
what about this? you guys know what an alternator on a engine is right? well, why can you hook a big alternator to the wheels so that when they turn it also charges the battries back up some,.. i know it's not gonna recharge them all the way but couldnt it get you a little farther?
nope, that will not work. electric is turned into energy via motors. Alternator's are more resistance which require more energy thus more electric to run. The amount of input required to turn the alternator is no where near the output created by the alternator.
member
11-20-2003, 04:13 PM
darn:o
ranger400ex
11-21-2003, 11:57 AM
ahem..not to call a bluff here, but Delphi along with HE Microwave are working with out engineering group here at work to finish up a motor/alternator complete single unit. The unit will funtion as a starter, then once the car is running will regen the battery and electrical system (most cars now have a least 6-12 battery caps to assist the electrical system and starter). I can't get too in depth as their are confidentiality agreements in place, but look for it on the upcoming Jags, Caddilac, and Corvette very soon. 42-48volts systems are the new wave, we have one of the first couple sets of full LED HID headlight assemblies designed for new model prototypes, addaptive cruise control (no more stepping on the brake, the car will sense slower car ahead, adjust speed, and adjust distance without driver ever touching a pedal...it is available this year on the jag...next year on upper chevrolet and ford lines.
I will dig up some info on the hybrid car delphi and couple others worked on (in college we did the battery tests for the assist motors...kinda odd how long a prototype is in design) it is a hydrogen powered skateboard looking chassis, the body is snapped on with integrated locks and electrical connectors, all controls are fly by wire(no manual connection to gas, brakes, steering etc), and the best part....buy the chassis...then shop for a body for it...you could have a truck body, car body, convertible, tow truck, whatever...all with one universal chassis.
Ben
Originally posted by ranger400ex
addaptive cruise control (no more stepping on the brake, the car will sense slower car ahead, adjust speed, and adjust distance without driver ever touching a pedal...it is available this year on the jag...next year on upper chevrolet and ford lines.
I saw that car & driver tv it was on a BMW. I think it was the new 5-series bimmer. They were driving on the autobahn.
AndrewRRR
11-21-2003, 01:14 PM
Seems like they haven't been able to get electric cars that are powerful and convenient yet so they are starting to play with hydrogen fuel cell cars. GM dumped a billion dollars into their hydrogen program, creating those skateboard wafer deals with all the components inside and the modular bodies for them. One thing I thought about when I saw that was "Well thats neat, but what if you need ground clearance? Those things were low and didn't look like they had much, if any, suspension travel. I sure as hell wouldn't pull my trailer out onto the sand with one!
Originally posted by speedy400
Need this for gay english class, please respond with your opinion.thanks-darren
I took regular english classes. Do they have 'Special" classes now?:confused:
Originally posted by ranger400ex
ahem..not to call a bluff here, but Delphi along with HE Microwave are working with out engineering group here at work to finish up a motor/alternator complete single unit. The unit will funtion as a starter, then once the car is running will regen the battery and electrical system (most cars now have a least 6-12 battery caps to assist the electrical system and starter). I can't get too in depth as their are confidentiality agreements in place, but look for it on the upcoming Jags, Caddilac, and Corvette very soon. 42-48volts systems are the new wave, we have one of the first couple sets of full LED HID headlight assemblies designed for new model prototypes, addaptive cruise control (no more stepping on the brake, the car will sense slower car ahead, adjust speed, and adjust distance without driver ever touching a pedal...it is available this year on the jag...next year on upper chevrolet and ford lines.
I will dig up some info on the hybrid car delphi and couple others worked on (in college we did the battery tests for the assist motors...kinda odd how long a prototype is in design) it is a hydrogen powered skateboard looking chassis, the body is snapped on with integrated locks and electrical connectors, all controls are fly by wire(no manual connection to gas, brakes, steering etc), and the best part....buy the chassis...then shop for a body for it...you could have a truck body, car body, convertible, tow truck, whatever...all with one universal chassis.
Ben
ahem, not to call a bluff here, but HID and LED headlights are not the same. LED's are based off of diodes and HID is a lamp that arc's in Xenon gas. Also the adaptive cruise control has been out for awhile....MB S series.
Now that motor charging unit is kinda neat... never knew they could get more power out of a charging unit vs the input required to operate it...
speedy400
11-21-2003, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by SGA
I took regular english classes. Do they have 'Special" classes now?:confused:
....dont be stupid....
Anyways, thats plenty of reply's guys thanks, I needed a Poll for my report I'm doing on it, BTW I'm against it. Thanks again guys.-darren
Originally posted by speedy400
....dont be stupid....
Anyways, thats plenty of reply's guys thanks, I needed a Poll for my report I'm doing on it, BTW I'm against it. Thanks again guys.-darren
Lol, I deserved that.
Batteries have always been the hold back on electric cars. Too heavy and fast discharge / slow recharge. Battery technology is changing though. Newer, lighter materials and cheaper manufacturing processes should help a powerful, reliable electric car become a reality within next 2 decades.
86atc250r
11-21-2003, 10:04 PM
The problem I have with "ZEV" electric vehicles is the energy still comes from somewhere.
Just because a vehicle has zero tailpipe emissions does not mean it's "Clean". The outlets in your walls don't just magically output clean energy on their own.
Couple that with lack of infrastructure and current technology - transmission losses (power transmission from the plant to your "ZEV"), power conversion and storage, the problems batteries cause on the environment, the problems the production of large electric motors causes on the environment (heavy metal pollutants), motor efficiency, etc, etc. --- that, in my opinion, among other factors, makes electric vehicles unpractical to replace fossil fuel engines.
I believe by the time electric vehicles become viable, a newer and better technology will reveal itself. Right now, it's a short sighted solution of deception, especially by trying to sell them to the public by calling them "zero emissisons vehicles" and boasting about their lack of a tailpipe...
What the heck are you talking about Ben, from your description of your motor/alternator combo I assume you are talking about a combo unit for a gasoline engine - and not some sort of perpetual motion machine that outputs more or even anywhere near equal power than is input into it :)
Also, like Eric said LED and HID are two entirely different technologies. I know some have been working on various LED setups for headlighting (Lumileds comes to mind) - Although it must be remembered that HID offers a MUCH greater lumen per watt ratio than even the best LEDs.
batgeek
11-22-2003, 12:43 AM
the day electric cars are the norm in the US, is the day i will leave this country.
i'm an American, i want to drive the biggest, loudest, most obnoxious vehicle ever made.
i'm all for alternate fuel sources though...gimme a vehicle with a nuclear fusion powerplant, and i'm sold!
Originally posted by batgeek
gimme a vehicle with a nuclear fusion powerplant, and i'm sold!
LMFAO... right on!
Gabe, You have to be one of the smartest members on this site. Were you always this smart, or one day just woke up all knowing?
Originally posted by batgeek
i'm an American, i want to drive the biggest, loudest, most obnoxious vehicle ever made.
Its the american way! Forget the save it for another day.
Get the biggest and baddest right now, use it all up, then throw it away and dont worry about it.:blah:
Glow Plug
11-22-2003, 01:22 PM
Personally I think that electric cars are going to be coming slowly, but they will still take a while to prefect. In the mean time I tihnk the "big 3" should put alot of their time into making small diesel's. I tihnk diesel fuel is the way to go, I find it pretty sad that we can only get a diesel car made by one company :rolleyes:
big-guy
11-23-2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by 86atc250r
Just because a vehicle has zero tailpipe emissions does not mean it's "Clean". The outlets in your walls don't just magically output clean energy on their own.
We'll just burn some more coal in Kentucky. Problem solved.
AndrewRRR
11-23-2003, 05:29 PM
Originally posted by Glow Plug
Personally I think that electric cars are going to be coming slowly, but they will still take a while to prefect. In the mean time I tihnk the "big 3" should put alot of their time into making small diesel's. I tihnk diesel fuel is the way to go, I find it pretty sad that we can only get a diesel car made by one company :rolleyes:
Do diesels burn cleaner than gas cars? I thought since they have oil in their fuel they are kind of like the 2 strokes of internal combustion (in that respect).
Plus a lot of the fuel stations around here don't have diesel unless they are near a freeway.
kabd69667
11-23-2003, 06:14 PM
One of many reasons why our country should look a diesel engines as options for all vehicles.
Sorry to bring back something from the first page, but didn't Ford offer the 7.3 diesel in the Excursion? I don't think it was a big hit since Ford decided to quit making the Excursion altogether, but i could be wrong..
Originally posted by kabd69667
Sorry to bring back something from the first page, but didn't Ford offer the 7.3 diesel in the Excursion? I don't think it was a big hit since Ford decided to quit making the Excursion altogether, but i could be wrong..
The Excursion was not a normal SUV by any means. It was based off of the SuperDuty truck chassis. Also the 7.3L is a truck motor...it still gets great MPG considering the power output. Overall the Excursion was a truck...when looking at the powertrain and chassis.
I was speaking of smaller diesel motors such has the 1.9L TDI offered by VW and some of the other motors that are offered in Europe, but not over here. Great power, clean, quiet and very high MPG vs gas motors.
why dont we all just drive ricers, cut the springs and put rainbows on the side, stuff a african drummer in the trunk with a big set of drums, glue some neons under neath, put the hoover vac exhaust, and put some ugly chick in the passengers seat thats consider ghetto hot....then wed all be equally cool:blah:
ranger400ex
11-24-2003, 06:22 AM
Mofo....error in typing yes the HID and LED lighting are different sides. It should have read simulated HID...Gabe the lumens per watt is moving in the right direction, but the high bright leds put off so much heat they require special PCB material (we are currently using aluminum backed ceramic) to control heat, but they require alot less power and the life span is 100x that of even the best HID systems out there. The technolgy is making the swing away from bulbs and glass, and Sylvania, Bosch, and many other are looking on how to get into the new market, sylvania is working on selling upgrade units for the new model cars, like a bolt in LED headlight assembly for say a Ford f-250.
Also, the alternator, starter motor is for gasoline use, it does not have the capabilites to power a vehicle along with regen...just for starter/alternator use.
the other interesting swing is the move from large 12v batteries to the 42-48volt systems, 1/4 the size batteries, and battcaps for componets requiring higher initial current (starter, ignition, etc) which helps cut down on weight, and heavy wiring, but still allow for more current and voltage.
ben
PS I still for one say give me a a f-350 stroker, running dual big daddy 12v batts, if I can't see what is in my way, I just run over it!!
Thanks for the info Ranger... lighting seems to be one of my side hobbies that I like to follow and learn about. I'm currently looking to buy the Xenarc kit from Sylvania for my truck (true HID conversion)...but if LED lighting is just around the corner, I may wait. I love LED's would like to see them in headlights.... any websites?
ranger400ex
11-29-2003, 01:26 PM
if you want HID, add designed lights on the front or on light bar etc...the only problem with "retrofit" kits is that they try and design the light into an set parameter, where the lights solo, are designed around the best performance.
ie the round lights are better than say F-150 HID replacements lenses.
Osram makes some nice kits, 8" rounds, shallow mount...couple of the spots and couple floods on the front of any truck properly aimed will shed the daylight in the night.
ben
I wired up two of the 8" spot and 2 6" floods to the front of a buddies new mini cooper....needless to say if you turn on even just one pair, and flip the stock headlights off or on....you can't tell a difference...looks bad***** too...he is turning it into a rally car...no ricer bull crap....real stuff. he is gonna trial run it on some fire trails, and roads in the hoosier national forest this winter.
Originally posted by ranger400ex
he is turning it into a rally car...no ricer bull crap....real stuff. he is gonna trial run it on some fire trails, and roads in the hoosier national forest this winter.
thats really cool!
I may just look into those extra lights rather than the $450 HID kit from Sylvania (note this is a legal kit too) that replaces my stock headlight housing.
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