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MIA450R
11-16-2003, 11:47 AM
Did anyone else notice Honda's subtly bold move in their ad for the 450R?
Yamaha's YFZ450 ad states: "Suddenly everything else is on standby..."
Then Honda's tactful, but ballsy reply, directly to Yamaha: "Standby for the TRX450R."

If you're reading this, Honda marketing executives; well done and well said...*IF* your engineers can back it up.

No-one questions whether Honda's engineers have come up with another near-bulletproof quad...that's a given. But we (die-hard Honda fans) all just pray that that they designed the new quad & engine under their own motorsports motto: "Performance First," and created a new 'R' capable of at least YFZ450 performance levels, if not higher. They know what the YFZ was capable of, as it came out months ago, and they should know by now exactly what the quad-riding public wants in a new 'R': HIGH PERFORMANCE.

If you're reading this, Honda engineers and Honda motorsports executives:
Standby for our opinions ($$$) on how well you listen to us...

ATC83
11-17-2003, 06:58 AM
If performance was first why does every other high performance four stroke on earth run the FCR carb including there own CRF250 and 450 motocross bikes and the TRX450 does not. I have never heard of something so ridiculous as "safety concerns" about the two throttle cables that Honda claims is the reason why they didn't put an FCR carb on the TRX. That sounds like they put performance second.

Pappy
11-17-2003, 07:04 AM
i think honda still has sore nutz from the swift kick the goverment gave them back in the late 80's:devil:

300exOH
11-17-2003, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Pappy
i think honda still has sore nutz from the swift kick the goverment gave them back in the late 80's:devil:

LMAO... Hit the nail on the head on that one!

ATC83
11-17-2003, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Pappy
i think honda still has sore nutz from the swift kick the goverment gave them back in the late 80's:devil:

I will agree with you on that, I can't remeber where I read this but In an article I came across about a year ago on lawsuits and ATVs it said that Honda was out sued 4 to 1 comapared to the other manufactures. I don't think that the safty concernes are the real reason that Honda didn't put the FCR carb on the TRX450. I think it was an issue of price. I think Honda had a certain price point that they were trying to meet and going with a lower end carb was one way of doing it. I think in there minds the performance differnce between the two wasn't that great and the decided to not go with the FCR. I have read that Yamaha went through the same dilema but ultimatly performance won out over price. I agree with Honda on a stock corked up bike the performace difference is not that great it only shows when you modify these bikes. Nothing compares to the performance of an FCR on a modified bike.

MIA450R
11-17-2003, 08:28 AM
Absolutely. Honda was raped by lawsuits back in the 80's, thanks to all the (underaged) kids hurting/killing themselves on the ATCs...and the racing 250 quads got lumped into that "black eye" category.

In 1998 (when the 10 year 'ban' on sport ATV R&D was over) the 400EX was a *HUGE* 1st baby step for Honda, and the sport ATV industry. The 400EX's sales, and all sport quads that immediately followed, proved to Honda and the entire industry, that sport ATV'ing was FAR from dead...it was simply in hibernation, thanks to the CSPC/US govt. However, the 450R had better not be a 2nd baby step...

Regarding the carb...I know nothing about FCR carbs vs CV carbs vs 42mm carbs vs 10mm carbs. I would tend to think Honda would err on the side of safety in all aspects...including sacraficing perfomance.

For example, I am certain the reason the 450R and the YFZ450 weigh the same, even tho the Yammi has electric start is because Honda put slightly more weight and strength into key areas of the frame and such that Yammi skimped on to stay within 350lbs.

The real question is, how much performance was Honda willing to scrafice? If too much, the racing industry, and general public will go with the Yamaha...or whomever else sells a high performance quad that is truley HIGH performance and not SAFE performance.

Guy400
11-17-2003, 08:52 AM
The YFZ does not weigh what Yamaha claims it does, it's been proven. It is closer to 385lbs as verified on race track scale. The question will be what does the TRX really weigh?

ATC83
11-17-2003, 09:54 AM
I have been in this sport for almost 25 years and I can say this, no matter what the manufactures say there bikes weigh they always weigh more. It's just a game the play. As for the weight thing, when you are building a quad or motorcycle for motocross, in order to get the bike to weigh less it is comen to sacrafice durability for weight. Thats what racing is all about. Yamaha may have sacraficed durability for weight, thats how you build a great race quad. Look at Honda's motocross bikes, in order to save weight on there CRF's they designed an itergrated master cylinder for the rear brake. Sure is saves weight but it continually boiles over. Or look at the cage for the air filter on the CRF450, in order to save weight Honda reduced the amount plastic at the seal and unless you buy the aftermarket fix it lets in dirt. I could go on and with all the manufacturers. My point is, Yamaha's design seems to be focused more on closed coarsed racing and thats the kind of bike I think we were all waiting for. I think Hondas new bike is focused more on the sport market there is nothing wrong with that. I for one was looking for more of a high performance race bike.

87250r88
11-17-2003, 10:12 AM
By all accounts so far the Honda is at least as fast as the Yamaha so why all the *****ing about the carbs ?

If you want the FCR so bad go buy one for the Honda.

ATC83
11-17-2003, 01:03 PM
Even though I’m an engineer I don’t think you have to be one to see that an uncorked TRX450 is not going to be as powerful as an uncorked YFZ450. You have to realize you are not buying a full on race motor like the one found on the CRF450 dirt bike. The TRX has a low compression piston, mild cam and it doesn’t have an FCR carb with fuel pump accelerator. With a FCR carb, high compression piston and full race cam the TRX will be a fast bike, but that is not what Honda is selling. The Yamaha comes stock with the same full race cam, FCR carb and high compression piston as its fire preathing cousin the YZ450F. The only difference is about one millimeter on the crank.

87250r88
11-17-2003, 04:02 PM
Sorry, but just because "on paper" you think the YFZ is faster doesn't mean it will be.

The CRF smokes a YZF, so maybe Honda de-tuned the TRX so Yamaha might have a chance (LOL).

By the way, an article that I have read says the Honda feels stronger in stock form. That is with Yamaha's full race cam, FCR carb and high compression piston. Just wait until someone unleashes the TRX.

Everyone knows Honda's reputation for reliability. Their handling is second to none. The YFZ is the best ATV that Yamaha has ever built , but don't expect it to keep the Honda's off the podium.

The YFZ suffers the same problem that every other Yamaha sport ATV has and that is the upper shock mount is too low and the front shocks are too short. Once again it is a good ATV but the Honda will dominate the race tracks.

hsr
11-17-2003, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by Pappy
i think honda still has sore nutz from the swift kick the goverment gave them back in the late 80's:devil:

What i don't understand is that i've heard that the 250r motor was the slowest of the 250 2 strokes ( Lt250r, Tecate) in the late eighties. Then there was the Lt500 of course. Now i realize the R was the better all around machine b/c it handled the best, but you never hear stories about the govt. giving suzuki or kawi and heat??? :confused:

MIA450R
11-17-2003, 04:41 PM
The majority of the lawsuits were against Honda, simply because Honda sold more product back then.

Due to the suits, all the manufacturers stopped making the 3-wheelers.

Honda stopped making the 250R (and stopped production of the almost released 500R).

Suzuki stopped production of the LT250R and Quadzilla (500R).

Kawi stopped production of the Tecate (250R).

But only Yamaha kept making the Banshee....

And yes, the Honda 250R was in fact the least powerful motor of all the 250's, but its superior handling & geometry more than made up for it. This will NOT be the case anymore. Everyone makes their frames/geometry similar to the 250R now...

putzld
11-17-2003, 06:23 PM
For the sake of the argument let us say that the 450R is down on power compared to the YZF bone stock. Once racers are done modding out both machines they will be near equal. The point is even if the Honda has less power when brought up to full potential they will be the same, the 450R is not aimed twords the sport market, if it was it would have reverse or atleast electric start.

Both quads are not as close to race form as their dirtbike equivalents but provide and excellent base for full race-modded-out potential. What may be more important is the what you cant change in (pro-production) racing, the frame and overall handling manners. Not to mention go buy an FCR carb if you really want it and still pay less for your quad.

VIC
11-17-2003, 06:40 PM
I don't think Honda would have gotten back into racing to come in second, they must be confident for a reason.

RobRacing
11-17-2003, 07:12 PM
Everyone needs to quit whinning and moaning about the carb on the TRX. Who cares if it is not an FCR, it's not a true CV carb either. It's close enought to an FCR that the average joe racer doesn't have to spend an extra $400 or so to get one. Yes the honda is a little detuned from the bike but thats what the HRC kit is for. In my opinion the yamaha feels to small and it would be uncoftrable to ride. The honda is aimed towards the average joe more than the super racer. This makes it more apealing to the people that can't handle or don't want the extreme racer. I think they did this to sell more bikes. Also remembering the R back in the day it went under many changes in 4 years, on the other hand the banshee took a mere 14 to undergo some changes (other than the a-arms). I think after the 450R is out there and honda can see what people really want to do with it, it may get some changes done and be better in the years to come. Ultimatly get what you think is best and ride it to have fun. Just remember that when you see a red quad pass you in a turn that you think back when you made your decesion.

86atc250r
11-17-2003, 09:16 PM
ATC83 - give it a rest already....

We know you like your YFZ, you don't need to prove anything to us, no need to justify your choice to us... If anything you need to get your facts straight, allow me to help.

The TRX has a low compression piston, mild cam and it doesn’t have an FCR carb with fuel pump accelerator.

The CRF engine doesn't need as much compression to develop power as the YFZ does because of it's more efficient head design. Note the compression of the 2003 dirtbikes:
YZ450: 12.5:1
CRF450: 11.5:1

Now look at the compression of the ATVs:
YFZ450: 11.9:1
TRX450: 10.5:1

Hmmm, I doubt you or I can tell .4:1 compression difference in an engine....

Now, we know nothing about the cam except those that have ridden the two quads say the TRX feels faster.... So much for the "full race" engine theory.

Other thing is, if you don't like the cam, it's easy and cheap to replace. Unlike the YFZ or LTZ, you don't have to buy a pair. For about the price of a cheezy slip-on pipe, you can derestrict the exhaust, open up the intake, and have what is sure to be a great cam.

Now, the carb... You say "fuel pump accelerator" - do you even know what that is? It's actually called an accelerator pump. The TRX *does* have one, it's no big deal, it doesn't add power- it compensates for the pressure drop in the intake when you stab the throttle, the carb's inability to deal with the sudden pressure change, and the tendency of the fuel to condensate on the port walls when the pressure drops. It improves throttle response off idle and eliminates the flat spot when you slam the throttle open.

With a FCR carb, high compression piston and full race cam the TRX will be a fast bike, but that is not what Honda is selling.

Sounds like from the reviews that the TRX is every bit as fast or faster than the YFZ the way Honda sells it... From the specs, it appears the TRX has a lot more room for improvement than the YFZ --- all good news for TRX people.. Fast as (or faster than) a YFZ stock, with more potential from modification. Future TRX owners can already see the fear in your eyes (and your posts)....

The Yamaha comes stock with the same full race cam, FCR carb and high compression piston as its fire preathing cousin the YZ450F.

All that and the TRX still is more powerful by all accounts so far.

Even if that isn't the case, they're so close that it doesn't matter who's actually got the power edge.

Again, your points are moot - these two quads will be very competitve. You are not going to win or lose races because you chose a TRX or YFZ - the quads will be that equal...

jimbo45
11-18-2003, 06:10 AM
86act250r said:

Now look at the compression of the ATVs:
YFZ450: 11.9:1
TRX450: 10.5:1

Hmmm, I doubt you or I can tell .4:1 compression difference in an engine....

----

If my math is correct the quads would have a 1.4 : 1 compression difference, not a .4 : 1 gap. Don't get me wrong, I agree with the rest of your post, but thought I would point out this oversight.:D

Wingnut
11-18-2003, 06:40 AM
What Gabe is saying is that the CRF engine has 1:1 less compression than the YZF, but still has equil power, because with the CRF's head design it doesn't need that extra compression. There is only a .4:1 additional compression difference between the TRX and YFZ.

jimbo45
11-18-2003, 07:04 AM
Oh, I see, now I'm trackin'. Sorry.

ATC83
11-18-2003, 07:26 AM
I think I have said this in other thread but the max you are going to get out of either of these engines is fifty five horse power and stay legal. That's what both Kevin Windhames CRF450 and Tim Ferry's YZ450F prduce and the factories have over $75,000.00 into each of these bikes.

kajunracing
11-19-2003, 07:10 PM
atc83 un cork your arse! have fun with your imagination to! you must be a damn good rider to utilize every ounce of performance out of these quads. will we see you soon on tv winning champion ships on your uncorked yammi?

r450rr
11-20-2003, 03:19 PM
hey i had a thought ....LOL

um honda must have something great!!!
because they got a lot riding on this atv..

For one thing they named it the 'R' wich means it better hold its own... next all they talked about on sept 10 in that interveiw was how great it was (keep in mind the yfz had already been out about two months so they new exaclty what it had to offer.... an still they put that ad about (standby for the trx 450r)

i mean once i think about all that i sit an wonder....its is going to be the shi$.. i mean really either it is going to be the shi% or they are going to let about a zillion people down .... i hope they read some of these post and just realise what they are doing...loll

and if they have and they done those commercials and talked and made us wait for 6 more months,,,it is going to have to be..or at least up to par..

this has been the most anticipated quad ever realeased..

oldsandman
11-20-2003, 05:33 PM
86atc250r, Thanks for posting! You saved me a whole lotta time typing. ATC83 give it a rest...I'm glad you like your yfz why not get some practice in and hope you're faster than the guy on the trx450r with his iyo pos carb.

dirtriderex
11-29-2003, 06:36 AM
I just talked to my dealer and he said Honda is very careful to out perform Yammaha, and Honda has pushed back the releas date 3 times. As for the FCR, Do you think Honda is that blind, no. They have everything under controled. ATC83, you say Yammaha is better because they sacrafice durability to be fater, Well I'll wave to you while I fly by you on the r while your machine has broken down. LOL

atcyalater
11-29-2003, 08:27 AM
I agree with ATC83, in motocross it'a all about performance. You don't get to the top by trying to save money on a lesser performing carb. I'm a life long Honda man but I think it is obviouse that Honda was really caught off gaurd by the performance of the Yamaha. I don't think Honda thought Yamaha would release a full on race machine like they did. I'm sure that there will be several changes to the TRX450 in the years to come to get the performace up the Yamaha thats why I am waiting to buy one. I don't even think that Honda wanted to release the TRX450 as a 2004 model but they new thay had to because Yamaha would have such a jump on sales over them.

Honda5
11-29-2003, 08:48 AM
what's the big deal about horsepower? I would rather have good suspention and 5 less horsepower. with that in mind we will have to ride the honda befor we rate! I should be on my 450r by dec. 12th.

TGW_400ex
11-29-2003, 09:29 AM
What I dont understand is everyone in the 80's had to stop makin 2 stroke racers except YAMAHA the banshee has been made since 1987 why didnt they get on there arse too? I mean the banshee is faster powerwise

Out_Sider
11-29-2003, 09:37 AM
becuz thats just how it went..yami kept there banshee..... but off of that...WHY DO YALL ALWAYS ARGUE WITH WHICH ONE IS BETTER??? WHO GIVES A FLYIN FUNK?? HONDA AND YAMAHA ARE BOTH GREAT MANUFACTORS (sp?)!! I SEE IT AS PICK WHAT EVER COLOR YOU WANT RED/BLUE... I LIKE THEM BOTH ALOT! I COULDNT CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER...THATS WHY I DECIDED TO STICK W/ MY SLOW ARSE 300EX :blah: .. BUT ANYWAY I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND WHY YALL ARGUE SOOOO MUCH ABOUT SOMETHING SOOOOO SMALL?? ITS JUST SEEMS RIDICULAS TO ME.

dirtriderex
11-29-2003, 11:10 AM
STOP YELLING IT PIS*ES ME OFF!

putzld
11-29-2003, 08:16 PM
Originally posted by atcyalater
I agree with ATC83, in motocross it'a all about performance. You don't get to the top by trying to save money on a lesser performing carb. I'm a life long Honda man but I think it is obviouse that Honda was really caught off gaurd by the performance of the Yamaha. I don't think Honda thought Yamaha would release a full on race machine like they did. I'm sure that there will be several changes to the TRX450 in the years to come to get the performace up the Yamaha thats why I am waiting to buy one. I don't even think that Honda wanted to release the TRX450 as a 2004 model but they new thay had to because Yamaha would have such a jump on sales over them.

I very much doubt Honda was caught off gaurd by the YFZ450. The 450R will be very high performance dont worry about it, the shootouts in the coming months should confirm my suspicion that the Honda and Yamaha will be very close in performance. And if I am permited a littel bias I belive the Honda shall be a little better;)

DMH
11-30-2003, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by putzld
I very much doubt Honda was caught off gaurd by the YFZ450. The 450R will be very high performance dont worry about it, the shootouts in the coming months should confirm my suspicion that the Honda and Yamaha will be very close in performance. And if I am permited a littel bias I belive the Honda shall be a little better;)

I agree, Honda wasn't caught off guard. It's their bussiness not to get caught off guard, and is the same for Yamaha or any other competing companies. As we all know the 450r has been in the works for a few years now (probably longer). I think Yamaha just forced them to show their hand. Or they where just waiting to see what Yamaha was going to release to make sure they had the better product. This isn't Honda's first day on the job.

I wouldn't put to much faith in the magazine shootouts. They are definitely not going to shoot themselves in the foot by talking bad about an advertisers product. Both quads will be equal with a few minor complaints about each one. They know how to play the game, and so do the bike companies.

As for me, I'll make my decision based on my experiences with both companies. I'll go with the Honda. I think they just build a better product.

Also, is it just me or does atcyalater and ATC83 sound like the same person? Naaa, couldn't be.:D

TGW_400ex
11-30-2003, 08:24 AM
On Atv Scene they say the 450r feels about the same in stock form to the yfz in stock form BUT look at all the stuff the 450r doesnt have but the YFZ does! So that means the 450r has more modding options than the YFZ which in turn will mean that the 450r should be faster in modded form!:D

MX#9
12-01-2003, 02:34 PM
Honda did not get caught off guard. This has been their marketing ploy for years. They give everyone a taste 2-3 mos. in advance, especially when they feel they got something good. The 250r was not released right away, they made us anticipate and lick our lips so to speak. It worked. They did the same thing with the 400ex. They told the press, showed some pictures, got everybody interested, BAM,they sold ALOT of 400's. These are the only ones I know about but it is probably the same with their other products too. I do believe, however, that if they released the 450r 2 weeks or so after the yzf, there would be a lot less Yamahas gracing the tracks and trails. I could be wrong.

mick77765
12-13-2003, 01:29 AM
every weekend i see crf450's rippin on the yzf450's .. ive ridden the yfz plenty and it ripps .. but if you think honda is gonna be suckin hind tit .. ur very wrong. the 450r is gonna make usable horsepower along with great handling to make the 450r a winner! i agree it may take the hrc kit to get the power where it needs to be but i think theyre going to be a very even battle on the mx track and the honda is gonna rule the gncc courses :D

r450rr
12-13-2003, 08:17 AM
i think honda sorta did get caught off gaurd not saying that they wasnt delveloping the r or anything yet.... but i think they thought yamaha was either going to release theres later this year like right now or wait until next year (05 model).. i think thats why they are releasing it about 6 months later ... because if they actually had it prepared and ready to release when yamaha did... why didnt they???

dont get me wrong i like honda and i am gettin a 450r... i am second on the list at my local dealer

jb500ex
12-13-2003, 09:05 AM
i found out about the bike in may, and both the yamaha and honda supposedly have been done for a year. they were trying to outlast each other, which i did not understand but that is what i was told by a very good source.

TCracin440ex
12-14-2003, 02:55 AM
this kid atc83 is allllllllllllllllllllllll over yamahas nuts....i mean hes got his head so far up yamahas arse i cant tell where yamaha begins and he ends.....i mean on all his threads and replies all he does is sit there and critize the 450r....i mean damn dude....grow the f*ck up...so what the 450r doesnt have a fcr carb....maybe that 42 they put on there does just as good if not better...honda has a reason for every thing they do....i mean atleast they are using keihin carbs...unlike yamaha....on all their quads untill their yfz 450 they used mikuni......then hes saying stuff about the crf 450 dirt bike...but how come the crf 450 has won best dirt bike 3 years in a row or how ever long its been out....i think his opinions and "facts" are pulled out of his arse...NOTHING he says makes sence...hes just another yamaha rider trying to piss people off...i mean dude how many times u have to remind us that the 450r doesnt have a fcr carb....SO F*CKIN WHAT....i mean ive never seen some 1 that far up yamahas *** that they cant see straight....

jb500ex
12-14-2003, 06:03 AM
he never gets his facts straight either. and i have called him out a couple of times and he shuts up and says nothing. atc83 you are a moron.

Hammer trx450r
12-14-2003, 06:16 AM
Lets face it we all love to mod our quads! Its like getting a new bike every time you bolt something on. i dont want a race ready quad i want a good solid foundation to build on that is bullet proof. We live in a world that revolves around lawsuits. HONDA is not going to release a bike that is that insane for 13 14 15 yr olds to ride? the 450r is the same as a yzf without half the mods. perfect for me, im a mod king, its gonna be sick

jb500ex
12-14-2003, 06:36 AM
i agree

TCracin440ex
12-14-2003, 11:30 AM
atleast some 1 agrees with me....i mean how can he bash the crf 450 when it got the best dirt bike of the year

jb500ex
12-14-2003, 12:26 PM
and i believe the crf won the supercross last night. which makes it 4 wins for that bike. and the yamaha only has 1, when doug henry won when it was a yz400f

TCracin440ex
12-14-2003, 01:11 PM
i mean how can u be up yamahas *** that far....i love honda no doubt....but ive rode raptors n some of yamahas quads...i only judged the quads on what ive rode....now i rode the blaster...n i say yamaha should discontinue that pos ......but honda has a pos too...that pos 250ex....but im not sittin here and sayin yamaha yamaha is this yamaha is that.....while hes sayin honda is this and honda is that and hondas 450r dont have an fcr....and bout the crf 450...i think hes talkin junk because hes loosing confidence in yamaha yfz 450

jb500ex
12-14-2003, 03:02 PM
i have too correct myself, fonseca was riding a two stroke last night not a four stroke

alias
12-14-2003, 05:18 PM
Originally posted by jb500ex
i have too correct myself, fonseca was riding a two stroke last night not a four stroke


YOU IDIOT

jb500ex
12-14-2003, 05:26 PM
alias you are on the wrong site. shouldn't you be on that pourly run r riders site

alias
12-14-2003, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by jb500ex
alias you are on the wrong site. shouldn't you be on that pourly run r riders site

it is spelled "poorly"

atcyalater
12-15-2003, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by TCracin440ex
this kid atc83 is allllllllllllllllllllllll over yamahas nuts....i mean hes got his head so far up yamahas arse i cant tell where yamaha begins and he ends.....i mean on all his threads and replies all he does is sit there and critize the 450r....i mean damn dude....grow the f*ck up...so what the 450r doesnt have a fcr carb....maybe that 42 they put on there does just as good if not better...honda has a reason for every thing they do....i mean atleast they are using keihin carbs...unlike yamaha....on all their quads untill their yfz 450 they used mikuni......then hes saying stuff about the crf 450 dirt bike...but how come the crf 450 has won best dirt bike 3 years in a row or how ever long its been out....i think his opinions and "facts" are pulled out of his arse...NOTHING he says makes sence...hes just another yamaha rider trying to piss people off...i mean dude how many times u have to remind us that the 450r doesnt have a fcr carb....SO F*CKIN WHAT....i mean ive never seen some 1 that far up yamahas *** that they cant see straight....

It's really sad to see so many personal attacks on this forum. I happen to agree with most of what ATC83 has to say. He seems to always give an objectionable opinion. I’m sure there are people that don’t. The point of a forum is to engage a dialogue about topics. All you seem to want to do is throw out personal attacks. I’ve read a lot of ATC83’s posts and he makes a lot of good points and he never attacks anyone. The world is full of ignorant people like you. Unfortunate you are a member of this forum. After reviewing some of your posts I think it would be obvious to anyone that you are so far gone that I think Honda could put four wheels on a piece of sh#@ and you would still buy it and say it is the greatest thing every built. That kind of blind following does nothing to progress the sport. I think it is funny that you accuse him of being a Yamaha man but the guy owns a 400EX. As far as I’m concerned, you should be banned from this forum.

atcyalater
12-15-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by jb500ex
he never gets his facts straight either. and i have called him out a couple of times and he shuts up and says nothing. atc83 you are a moron.

That's a nice response, why don't you grow up and stop showing off your ignorance. People like you should be banned from this forum.

Sick0
12-15-2003, 03:04 PM
Heres one problem I have with you honda guys. You say the 450r makes about the same hp in stock trim as the yamaha but with a more detune motor.
Well yamaha is know for detune there motors with exhast and air boxs. Look at the raptor, banshee, yzf. The all gain 10 hp or more when you open up the exhasts.
The honda probly just a more free flowing exhast to be equal to the yamaha while still keeping the motor detume more. I bet you put aftermarket pipes, air filters and jeting, remove lid. The Yamaha will make a considerable more power. And way you look at it, your going to have to put more time and money into the motor to get it up to full power. Its this simple Honda has less balls compared to yamaha when the tune there motors.


Thats got me thinking. You guys keep saying the honda is so much cheaper. It really isn't. We all are going to mod these bikes.
The extra money you will have to spend to get the honda up to speed would probly be a little more than the money you would be spending on the yfz.

Plus I like the option of having an e start. I know you guys like the kick start but Atleast yamaha gives you the choice.

Like couple of poeple have said the yamaha is more for a racer and honda detune it to fit a wider spread of poeple.

putzld
12-15-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Sick0

Like couple of poeple have said the yamaha is more for a racer and honda detune it to fit a wider spread of poeple.


But you are still bench racing them, we have yet to see a side by side comaprison yet.

Sick0
12-15-2003, 04:29 PM
Your right but everybody want to speculate on which is better and this and that. But from what the imformation we have right now, this the only way to compare them.

lukester720
12-15-2003, 05:57 PM
If it wasn't for this "bench racing" that everyone keeps whining about there wouldn't be anything to talk about now would there? it makes it fun to get on here and see peoples opinions. I don't know which quad is better and neither does anyone else all anyone on here has is there opionon based on the stuff they read. If any new info comes out someone will start a new thread about it so you don't have to worry about reading through all this "bench racing". I get my R at the end of the month no matter if the yfz is better or not but for a few extra dollars one can be made to equal the other.

2004TRX450R
12-15-2003, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Sick0
1. The all gain 10 hp or more when you open up the exhasts.


2. Thats got me thinking. You guys keep saying the honda is so much cheaper. It really isn't. We all are going to mod these bikes.
The extra money you will have to spend to get the honda up to speed would probly be a little more than the money you would be spending on the yfz.

3. Plus I like the option of having an e start. I know you guys like the kick start but Atleast yamaha gives you the choice.


1. What are you smokeing? There is no way in hell that any YFZ, YFM, or TRX or any other quad for that matter is going to make anywhere near 10hp gains just by opening up the exhaust. It just don't work that way. That would be a 25% gain just in that and it aint happening. Maybe 2 or 3 hp at the most and 5 would be really stretching it.

2. For the price of the YFZ you can buy the TRX and the power up kit from Honda and I bet it will be spanking all over the YFZ.

3. Electric start is for pussies. If you want a bike to put around the trails on what ever but if you want a bike to race then shut up and kick. There is no place for electric start on a race machine. With that in mind which one is better set up for raceing?

Once they come out I am getting the first one that rolls through our shop and my buddy already has a YFZ with exhaust and we will be going out doing some testing of our own and I'll let you all know how bad I kick his *****!:D :D

Sick0
12-15-2003, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
1. What are you smokeing? There is no way in hell that any YFZ, YFM, or TRX or any other quad for that matter is going to make anywhere near 10hp gains just by opening up the exhaust. It just don't work that way. That would be a 25% gain just in that and it aint happening. Maybe 2 or 3 hp at the most and 5 would be really stretching it.

2. For the price of the YFZ you can buy the TRX and the power up kit from Honda and I bet it will be spanking all over the YFZ.

3. Electric start is for pussies. If you want a bike to put around the trails on what ever but if you want a bike to race then shut up and kick. There is no place for electric start on a race machine. With that in mind which one is better set up for raceing?

Once they come out I am getting the first one that rolls through our shop and my buddy already has a YFZ with exhaust and we will be going out doing some testing of our own and I'll let you all know how bad I kick his *****!:D :D

Dam you sound dumb!!

but any ways. The First point. the raptor and banshee make about 35 hp stock. you put an (after market exhuast, filter, jeting, remove lid) This whats I mean by opening it up. This is a normal mod thats probly every racer does.The raptor and banshee will net about 45 to 50 HP. This is normal. The yfz has makes labout 38 hp and with opening it up and the cam mod(free and easy to do)you would expect between 48 and 50hp. I've seen these numbers again and again form so many diffrent source. I'm sure poeple on this would agree with these numbers.

A 400ex or z-400 don't really make much HP power with these mods. 1 to 5hp with the same mods. Probly where you are getting you opion

2 The power up kit puts the hp number closer to whats yfz motor produces. The yfz will probly make a higher peak hp with the 450r making a smoother power band with more bottomend. Diffrent styles- doesn't meant ones better than the other. This kit cost money to buy. it was time, money, and energy to install. My yfz already has the same mods and I didn't have to do any thing. I can be lazy and I like this fact. By time you get the kit and if you arn't good ebought to put it in, would probly be spending more than the yfz.

3 you are a very narrowminded person. I like my estart. if I stall on the track I can get it started before I even stop, or have to pull out the kickstart which all waste time. So when I pass you when your trying kick start you quad , I guess I will be a PU55Y thats still in fron t of you. Plus if somebody feels e-starts are for PU55Y, than yamaha gives the choices, just buy the kick start

Go ahead, race your body. If he know how to ride, he will probly kill you narrow minded stupid *** all day.

Dale512
12-15-2003, 07:57 PM
I for one dont think either quad is gonna be worlds better than the other. Um, yeah the CRF dirtbike is alittle faster than the YFZ, but it by no means "smokes" it like I've been hearing people say. Also for the person that said the YFZ really weighs in at around 385lbs......that is true, because thats what it weighs with fluids, close too what the Honda will weigh with fluids. I know my buddy weighed his YFZ with full fluids and 1gal of gas and it weighed in at 372lbs...with the full 2.6 gallons of gas it would weigh around 380-385lbs so the weight issue is irrelevant. Just for weight comparison the 450R should weigh around 380-385lbs with fluids also......for comparison, my Speed with HMF Exhaust, Hipers, Razr Rear Tires, Klaw Front Tires, X-Factor Pro-Peg Nerfbars, and with the heelgaurds removed & Shaved Front Fenders weighs 387lbs with Full Tank of Gas and all other Fluids.

Sorry, now that I read my post.......I think I'm just rambling.:rolleyes:

dirtriderex
12-15-2003, 08:34 PM
I thought I was alway a ignorant jerk LOL. But we all have our opinions and sickO you can stick to your opinion but you can't get mad at 2004trx450r or any one else for defending their opinion, of course we are going to defend our trx450r.

r450rr
12-15-2003, 09:04 PM
(Like couple of poeple have said the yamaha is more for a racer and honda detune it to fit a wider spread of poeple)

right before u said the this u said that the honda has a kick start and thats all and all u was doing was *****in about it...i dont think that the honda is detuned for a wider spread of people (for one think it only has a kickstart)... besides u havent rode one yet so shut up....u have know i dea how it is going to run handle or anything..it doesnt matter what is wrote on paper...wait and see is all i am asking..yea yamaha has all the nuts when it comes to them motors... but honda sales more of them detuned motors than yamaha... so there!!! carb doesnt matter cause the carb that honda put in the r is not like anything else... they sill call it a highperformance carb... they just didnt put a fcr cause it will be easy matinence and more reliable...lets just wait and see what happens with the to rivals,,, in the mean time dont bash honda on a honda site... thats shady!!!

2004TRX450R
12-16-2003, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by Sick0
Dam you sound dumb!!

but any ways. The First point. the raptor and banshee make about 35 hp stock. you put an (after market exhuast, filter, jeting, remove lid) This whats I mean by opening it up. This is a normal mod thats probly every racer does.The raptor and banshee will net about 45 to 50 HP. This is normal. The yfz has makes labout 38 hp and with opening it up and the cam mod(free and easy to do)you would expect between 48 and 50hp. I've seen these numbers again and again form so many diffrent source. I'm sure poeple on this would agree with these numbers.

A 400ex or z-400 don't really make much HP power with these mods. 1 to 5hp with the same mods. Probly where you are getting you opion

2 The power up kit puts the hp number closer to whats yfz motor produces. The yfz will probly make a higher peak hp with the 450r making a smoother power band with more bottomend. Diffrent styles- doesn't meant ones better than the other. This kit cost money to buy. it was time, money, and energy to install. My yfz already has the same mods and I didn't have to do any thing. I can be lazy and I like this fact. By time you get the kit and if you arn't good ebought to put it in, would probly be spending more than the yfz.

3 you are a very narrowminded person. I like my estart. if I stall on the track I can get it started before I even stop, or have to pull out the kickstart which all waste time. So when I pass you when your trying kick start you quad , I guess I will be a PU55Y thats still in fron t of you. Plus if somebody feels e-starts are for PU55Y, than yamaha gives the choices, just buy the kick start

Go ahead, race your body. If he know how to ride, he will probly kill you narrow minded stupid *** all day.

How much dyno time do you have on these bikes? Obviously not much. I suppose you are one of those guys that read the adds that say the exhaust is good for 5hp and the intake is good for 3 and jetting is good for 2 so you add them all together and you get 10hp. SORRY BUT IT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY!! We have a dyno at work and have done many YZ400 and 426s and even some CRF450s and it takes a lot more than that to get 10 hp more out of them. After you do the intake and exhaust you will need to do some head porting and maybe some cam timeing or new cams to get that much more hp out of the engine. So who is the one sounding dumb now.

I don' t know what the claimed hp is for the YFZ or the TRX off the top of my head but how do you know what the TRXs power up kit is going to produce? You don't. So once again your argument is invalid. Noone knows until it comes out PERIOD!

You can like your "estart" all you want. When you stall it on the track I will just go by you. It must suck to have a stalling problem on the track.

Obviously I'm a honda guy. I work on motorcycles for a liveing and know that when it comes to reliability and ease of working on Honda has the rest beat. They are simply the best on earth. In all honesty I think both bikes in stock trim are going to be VERY close and it will come down to rideing style and preference wich one people will like. I'v owned my 250R since I was 14 and have never seen the need for electric start or reverse. They are just things to add weight to the bike. But I would suspect I will be killing my friend all day long anyway because I am a better rider and have been rideing a lot longer.

By the way why don't you go back and read your posts and then tell us who is narrow minded. And why are you on this HONDA site anyway if you ride and are so defensive about yamaha?

holeshot19
12-16-2003, 04:11 AM
i dont think anyone is winning this pissing match, its nice to speculate but just wait and see i payed for mine yesterday,im going to call prm today for some skids and ims for a tank.

lukester720
12-16-2003, 07:44 AM
2004trx450r the articles I've read (the colby turner article and bill bartels article) say that the 450r produces 42 hp and the hrc kit gives it 13% more which equals 47.46 one article rounded it up one rounded it down. That stock hp figure comes from the honda R&D guys. The yfz in stock form has been dyno'd from 36 to 38 hp but all the places I've read say the pipe makes a huge difference so they probably already have the head set up for a pipe. I know my friends was a lot faster once we piped and jetted it, and took the lid off. My money is being spent on the R though.

biohazard1.2
12-16-2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
1. What are you smokeing? There is no way in hell that any YFZ, YFM, or TRX or any other quad for that matter is going to make anywhere near 10hp gains just by opening up the exhaust. It just don't work that way. That would be a 25% gain just in that and it aint happening. Maybe 2 or 3 hp at the most and 5 would be really stretching it.

2. For the price of the YFZ you can buy the TRX and the power up kit from Honda and I bet it will be spanking all over the YFZ.

3. Electric start is for pussies. If you want a bike to put around the trails on what ever but if you want a bike to race then shut up and kick. There is no place for electric start on a race machine. With that in mind which one is better set up for raceing?

4. Once they come out I am getting the first one that rolls through our shop and my buddy already has a YFZ with exhaust and we will be going out doing some testing of our own and I'll let you all know how bad I kick his *****!:D :D

Aight, TRX450R...just for you and your lil rant.

1. We smoke what we want and, I got 12hp from my GYTR full system (lost 8#s) (5 TITANIUM Valve Head...has a lot to do with the mega HP increase once the YFZ is uncorked) and removing the lid and JETTING RIGHT!

2. Dollar for dollar, we will see.

3. You ought to watch just who you refer to as a puzzie.
This is one Estarter that will, without a doubt, make you recant.:macho

have fun and quit the BS and personal attacks...you are real tough from a distance.

Race a YFZ when you get your Honda...if they ever release them.

I have had 250rs...wish I would have kept them (college money killed the idea).

4. Come and kick mine...:devil:

Pappy
12-16-2003, 09:31 AM
so this is where all the crybabies got to:eek: :blah:

MX#9
12-16-2003, 09:35 AM
Enough BS? If it were not for BS there would be no threads because they are all BS[this post included]. That is what these are all about are they not? Seriously though, if you are a,let's say,mx racer running midpack every weekend on your Banshee,250r,blaster,400ex or whatever, no 450r or yfz is going to put you to the front, face it your not that good. These new quads are going to be great but they are not magic, if you are slow ,accept it and continue to have fun. If the guy that is smoking you every weekend on his Banshee,250r,blaster,400ex or whatever, is winning by a half a lap, he will continue to do so on his old quad. If he buys a 450r or a yfz he will still do it , he is a better rider,accept it. He could leave it stock and still smoke you on your tricked out yfz or 450r. So you see, unless you are the guy with the half a lap lead every weekend, it's all BS, PERIOD.

Sick0
12-16-2003, 04:20 PM
1. its this simple. the yamaha motor is built for for 50 hp. But the way they detune the motor is put a real restrictive exhaust and air lid whichs cuts the hp numbers down to where the feel its safe to sell. They have done this with all of there high performance quads. Thats why you will see a big gain in hp with simple numbers. By builting the motors for more hp the motors won't last as long. more power = more wear

Honda motors are built with less hp and more worried about reliablity. The detune motor by lowering the compression, more mild cam, a less ported head. So when you put the same simple mods on it won't have as big gain. You have to put the higher compression piston, more addressive cam, open up head, and you will see the gains,

This all adds up to a motor thats last longer, has a easyer to use powerband, But this sacrerfaced power.

And all of your yz 400 yz426 and crf450 you dyno won't see thats big of a gain because these are not detuned, and have a pretyy good exhaust from the factroy. Why does the yfz only make 38 hps when yz motor makes over 50hp even though the motors are very close Its all because the detune the yfz with the exhaust, air filter and the retarded the cam..

I'm not some big yamaha Nut on the honda site. I use to hate yamaha and one of the biggest honda fan.(thats when i was closed minded) I open my eyes and seen thats a diffrent company mad a quad thats was for me. I didn't really bash the honda in anything I have said. But I just can't stand how narrow minded some poeple are and like to bash the yfz with NO BASES to back them up.
I owned a 400ex and love the quad. Thats how and why I'm on this site. And I think this is the best quad site on the internet.

The estart is faster to start than the kick start. If you don't like it kick all you want. Thats you prefence.

So ya I think you are very narrow minded person. But the yfz and the 450r are pretty close, the yfz looks a little like it edges out the honda. Yamaha has final done it. Honda isn't the only real choice for a race quad.

dirtriderex
12-16-2003, 07:07 PM
How do you know all this about the honda r. How can you say someone is close minded when you are talking about a engine that has never been out. Remember this is not at all a crf engine. I was thinking about getting the yamaha, but I can't see any major advantages, Oh and if you have used a kick start once you know the position, you can kick it over faster than a e-start. HP does not mean anything expecally if you don't have the torque.

Sick0
12-16-2003, 07:26 PM
I'm just try to defended the yfz. And I have not put down the 450r. I have read alot about 450r, crf, yfz to get a much imfo as ai can right now. I personaly own a yfz and a 400ex. There is enough info out there to get a good Idea. If you look at the specs you can get a good idea on whats to expect. I don't know really how much power its going to make but you can get a good idea.

The kickstart. I like E-start. But I don't call poeple pussie because you like kickstart. I just like fact that yamaha gives you the chocie. its thats simple. This guy only think nothing better than honda no matter.

Your right about hp don't mean every thing. but I have own the yfz. and the power is near perfect for ME to race MX. I like the new honda but I just think there no way its going to kill the yfz. from the all the stuff I had read and seen. the yfz looks like its going to come out top on the local level. At the pro level there too close to matter.

2004TRX450R
12-16-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by biohazard1.2
1. We smoke what we want and, I got 12hp from my GYTR full system

Lets see the dyno chart! Then I will believe you.

Sick0,

I'm glad you were able to sit in on Honda and Yamaha's R&D to bring us that info. It is very helpful to know what Yamaha and Honda were thinking when builing these units.

At work we have dynoed a few YZFs and WRs and CRFs. The latest CRF we dynoed did right at 50 hp. It had a pipe and was jetted and had race gas. I think that was about it. It may have had the air box opended up too but I don't recall for sure. It wasn't 38-40 stock though. It was more in the 43-45 range as I recall. We have one WR426 that dynoed at about 43 with pipe and jetting. We then ported the head and it bumped it up to about 50. That was one fast bike at the track. He pulled away from everyone. On these engines it usually takes at least a pipe, some air box mods on the models that have restrictors in them wich all you do is take the restrictor out, some head work and some race gas. I think it is so funny how people read all the claims of the manufacturers of the products they put on their bikes and think that is what it will actually do, then add them all together for all the mods and think that is what their hp is. You can't take the claimed 10hp from an exhaust, 5 hp from a filter and add them together and think you have another 15 hp. It just doesn't work that way. realistcly by the time you figure the inflated hp from the begining both together will probably only actually make about 7 or 8 total over stock if you are lucky. The intakes and exhausts on these bikes are very restrictive but not that much. The YFZ is very comperable to a WR in the exhaust and intake restrictions and we don't see that much gain with the WRs. If you look at it in a percentage you are saying you are going to get 25%+ more power with just an intake and exhaust. That is a HUGE increase that takes a lot more than that. But if you want to show some dyno graphs then I will believe you. Just with my experience on the dyno it just isn't that much of an increase.

Now for the electric start issue. I obviously came across more harsh them I entended. I razz all my budies that have bikes with electric start that it is for pussies and women. I get so tired of people wineing about haveing electric start and reverse. IF you know how to ride IT IS NOT REALLY NEEDED. Yes it is nice once in awhile to have but get off your lazy *** and kick the damn thing. Neither one has any place on a race bike. When I worked at a pooplaris and Honda dealer I got so tired of people comming in and looking at the 400EX and scrambler 400 and wanting the 400EX until they realize it doesn't have reverse and then they buy the scrambler. The 400EX is a WAY better quad but just because it doesn't have reverse they don't want it. If you have to have electric start buy a warrior and go put around in the woods. If you want a race bike quit your wineing and kick the dam thing!

Sick0
12-16-2003, 09:25 PM
I can actully agree with most of you just said. But I have plenty dynos for the yfz. most show a gain about 10hp- with air box lid, air filter, full exhauts, cam mod( basicly same as yzf). These mods all work togather to get the full power out of it. I have seen higher and think the companys are full of it.

trx440
12-16-2003, 10:14 PM
Who cares?

Tim Farr or Doug Gust would be faster on a stock 400ex than you guys would be on your choice of YFZ or 450R.

2004TRX450R
12-16-2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by Sick0
. most show a gain about 10hp- with air box lid, air filter, full exhauts, cam mod

AHH there we go. Now you added the CAM MOD in there. With a cam you might hit the 10hp mark. You never said (or if you did I missed it) anything about messting with the cams.

Woody_YFZ
12-17-2003, 01:04 AM
Originally posted by MX#9
Enough BS? If it were not for BS there would be no threads because they are all BS[this post included]. That is what these are all about are they not? Seriously though, if you are a,let's say,mx racer running midpack every weekend on your Banshee,250r,blaster,400ex or whatever, no 450r or yfz is going to put you to the front, face it your not that good. These new quads are going to be great but they are not magic, if you are slow ,accept it and continue to have fun. If the guy that is smoking you every weekend on his Banshee,250r,blaster,400ex or whatever, is winning by a half a lap, he will continue to do so on his old quad. If he buys a 450r or a yfz he will still do it , he is a better rider,accept it. He could leave it stock and still smoke you on your tricked out yfz or 450r. So you see, unless you are the guy with the half a lap lead every weekend, it's all BS, PERIOD.

Well said, while I do a little better now on my YFZ, I'm still getting beat by the top guys in my class. I did get a little "magic" (finishing about two spots higher on average), but not enough to win races, just do a little better, but I know what you're saying and I agree.

RiPPiNiTuP7
12-17-2003, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by Sick0
I can actully agree with most of you just said. But I have plenty dynos for the yfz. most show a gain about 10hp- with air box lid, air filter, full exhauts, cam mod( basicly same as yzf). These mods all work togather to get the full power out of it. I have seen higher and think the companys are full of it.

i agree, i piped my 450 and holy crap what a difference.

Sick0
12-17-2003, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by 2004TRX450R
AHH there we go. Now you added the CAM MOD in there. With a cam you might hit the 10hp mark. You never said (or if you did I missed it) anything about messting with the cams.

I don't know if said every time did mention. plus its simple mod, you just rotate the cam one tooth. It bring the cam spec up to the yzf. it free and easy. I might of missed it last thread but This is the only quad thats I know that you do this little trick on and referrimg to all yamaha about bigger gains with simple mods. I have seen 11 to 12 hp from these simple mods, but for the sake of argument will say it puts out about 10hp.

Your right, A sweet doesn't mean anything if you can ride. but I remeber sleeping on the line one time and still pull a good start. last one off the line and probly forth around the corner. I couldn't have done thats on my 400ex and would have been a lot hard to win the race seeing how I would be farther back in pack. but you don't if you can't ride, its thats simple.

ranger400ex
12-17-2003, 10:46 AM
This one is for Pappy and Rico...I think I will get a laugh.


WHAT IS THE POINT OF ARGUING OVER 0HP vs 50HP....NONE OF YOU PU$$IES CAN RIDE IT!!!




Sorry Gabe, not directed at you, I for one know you da man.

PS As a side note, I am not skilled enough to ride even an LT80 so I sold one of my cannondales to but an LT50, and will keep the other dale as a backup....anyone wanna do a swap of an LT50 motor into a dale frame.

Jeff got a new baby coming this week.... I am the stepfather, and Kenny was da daddy.

(I can't be in an argument that involves two machines that are way outdated compared to an Dale. It is like Chevy and Dodge bringing out the corvair and pinto again...old $hit just handed down for years....gimme FI, all aluminum frame, real HP, no need to put more HP into the motor....hmmm sounds like a cannondale.)

ben

trx440
12-17-2003, 10:54 AM
I wish I had a Dodge Pinto. I bet it's the rarest car on earth. It would probably be worth a bunch of money too. I wonder if it came with a Hemi or a Wedge? I think it is faster than my friends Plymouth Vega but he is putting a Sparks exhaust and K&K seat covers on it, so it might be able to take a Dodge Pinto. He said the Sparks exhaust gives the Vega 133 extra hp and the seat covers add 7 hp. I think he believes too much stuff he hears on the internet.

2004TRX450R
12-17-2003, 03:30 PM
well just for the info I'm looking at the '04 Yamaha accessories and apparel catalog and it says the GYTR pipe with air box lid removed and jetted is good for 5.5hp.

Hammer trx450r
12-17-2003, 04:03 PM
you mean FORD PINTO

2004TRX450R
12-17-2003, 08:08 PM
Hammer, I think he was just trying to be funny.:D

trx440
12-17-2003, 09:31 PM
Ain't nothing funny 'bout a Dodge Pinto! Ford never made a Pinto you idget, Ford made the Gremlin! I used to race them with my Chrysler Maverick and Datsun Pacer. My Pacer had a Arctic Cat El Tigre snowmobile engine in it. It only ran in the winter.

ranger400ex
12-18-2003, 10:13 AM
TRX440....I smell somthing funny about your story...I hate to say it but I think you are lying...the Pacer was never offered with a leg option....so it couldn't have ran in the winter or in the summer...better check your story again. lol



:rolleyes:





PS before you whinneys start...that was sarcasm above.

trx440
12-18-2003, 10:26 AM
Ranger,

Did you think the Pinto was made by Dodge?

Back to the thread: We are all on stand by

Hammer trx450r
12-18-2003, 03:48 PM
sounds like too much AZ sun!! "stand by" in the ac

BigAl
12-18-2003, 04:42 PM
the last 6 posts are worth more than the first 5 pages combined

[:D]

holeshot19
12-18-2003, 05:05 PM
pissssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssssssssssssssssss

MIA450R
12-23-2003, 12:09 PM
yawn.

Ok. Something else to talk about...

So, who else sold their 400EX or other quad 2-3 months ago upon learning of the 450R coming out soon?

I'm even having dreams/nightmares of riding my 416EX. Sigh, WHY did it have to sell the 1st day I put it in the WantAd????!!!???

trx440
12-23-2003, 12:19 PM
MIA,

Lucky you live in MA, you could live in AZ or CA and have sold it . It is so much fun watching 100's of trailers full of quads on their way to Glamis.

Hammer trx450r
12-23-2003, 01:29 PM
wow thats funny cause i sold mine bout 2 months ago lol. i got a 230 quadrunner to ride( whoa no clutch)

400grl
12-24-2003, 08:47 AM
I sold my 440 about 3 months ago......planning on the new Honda. However, due to that fact that I live in AZ and I have to watch toyhauler after toyhauler make their way to Glamis every weekend, I also bought a new Banshee just for the few months I knew I would be without a quad - now I am OH SO GLAD I did that! Haven't missed a dune trip yet!!! :) heheheheheh...... :D

MIA450R
12-24-2003, 09:05 AM
Well done....

I've considered doing the same, but instead I just switched my focus from quad riding to hopping up my car....always something to make faster: quad, car, skateboard, blender....

Foxrage
12-24-2003, 08:54 PM
I dont know if anyone has stated this because i was to lazy to read all of the posts. But hasnt anyone relized.....IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT THE RIDE IS ITS HOW YOU RIDE IT!!!!

Yamaha might be fast and it might haul *** but when it comes down to the race track its going to be the rider!!!!

Hondas might not be as fast but its gonna last. I dont think honda will have a problem in any of the races.

But then again if i got the baddest bike out there and tim farr is on a blaster...i would still give him the binifit of the doubt that he will keep up because he has skill and experience....I have some but no where near as much as him...

I still dont see y everyone continues to ramble on which ones better...Have patience and we will see....Dont listen to the magazines....they may say yamahas better but if your a better ride than the guy on the yamaha wont have a chance.

Also im for the crf450 all they way and i will have one when the time comes...

biohazard1.2
12-25-2003, 06:16 AM
What if the rider of the Yammi is better? Then you are behind, using your criteria...:D

trx440
12-25-2003, 11:19 AM
I love going to the local courts with my Chuck's on. The high school kids in their $170 basketball shoes used to give me a hard time. Now when "Old school" shows up they know who'll have the court for the rest of the day. Equipment is so often overrated.

Same thing happens in racing. Capable machinery with talanted, experienced and don't forget lucky riders will still win.

How would you have liked to have been the first guy to show up at the local track with a YFZ or first with the 450R and not made the podium?

Anybody have that happen to them?

86atc250r
12-25-2003, 04:18 PM
Nope, hasn't happened to me, but I've caused it to happen to others with my outdated, slow, air-cooled 400ex - and I enjoyed every minute of it :)

TCracin440ex
12-25-2003, 04:50 PM
ROFLMAO @ TRX440

Foxrage
12-26-2003, 09:51 AM
What if the rider of the Yammi is better? Then you are royally screwed, using your criteria...

well ya same goes that way....I wouldnt say royally screwed tho...