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HMFer
11-15-2003, 01:19 PM
Well boys...we're waiting just like you for the release of the new Honda 450R. They say December...but who knows for sure. We have some pull wiff sum hi faloot'n folks and may get lucky and get one a head of time. Until then we have put a link on our web site that will give you updated info as we know more. You'll have an opportunity to pre-order a full system or slip on that will be available with in two weeks of us getting the bike. Be the first on your block by ordering early! Check it out at hmfengineering.com

MIA450R
11-16-2003, 10:59 AM
Cool.

But if you're going to advertise your product on this website, at least have the courtesy to drop some #'s in your post as to what benefits are to be had for buying your exhaust for a new 450R. How many peak HP does it add? How much HP does it add across the powerband? At what db (sound) level? How much less does it weigh than stock? What does it cost?

And I must ask....exactly how do you manufacture a pipe and headpipe for a quad's engine that you've never seen or worked on? How do you know the results without real world testing? How do you know your pipe is tuned for maximum power output at a desireable noise level?

Unless you're really just guessing all of this and rushing a product to market for headstart on a quad that will surely be an aftermarket company's dream....

Maybe pre-ordering aint such a great idea....

Bretmd94
11-16-2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by MIA416EX
Cool.

But if you're going to advertise your product on this website, at least have the courtesy to drop some #'s in your post as to what benefits are to be had for buying your exhaust for a new 450R. How many peak HP does it add? How much HP does it add across the powerband? At what db (sound) level? How much less does it weigh than stock? What does it cost?

And I must ask....exactly how do you manufacture a pipe and headpipe for a quad's engine that you've never seen or worked on? How do you know the results without real world testing? How do you know your pipe is tuned for maximum power output at a desireable noise level?

Unless you're really just guessing all of this and rushing a product to market for headstart on a quad that will surely be an aftermarket company's dream....

Maybe pre-ordering aint such a great idea....

ummm they dont know the hp changes yet because they probably havent even made the exhaust. They might get one before us maybe, so its really impossible to make HP numbers.

pleasure4qt
11-16-2003, 05:34 PM
HRC will have a exhaust bulit by WB (WhiteBros) just like Polaris does for the Predator (PurePolaris)

bigz-71
11-16-2003, 05:39 PM
pleasure4qt:
HRC will have a exhaust bulit by WB (WhiteBros) just like Polaris does for the Predator (PurePolaris)

how do you know this?:confused:

holeshot19
11-16-2003, 05:47 PM
talked to loren the other day at duncan he said a soon as they were relesed he would have a carb and the aftermarket ingition system and the exaust pipes

HMFer
11-17-2003, 06:56 AM
Hey Dude slow down! Making pipes is what we do. We have over 40 pipes in our line in 4 different markets. This is just a projection of the average hp made from sport quads. We pre-order all of our new products. There are lots of consumers who like to know a head of time what products are coming out...just like your dying to get the new honda 450R.

The deal is we're a smaller company that is able to get pipes out a lot faster because we make all of our own pipes in house. This allows us to go from R&D to production with in two weeks, where as most of you favorite exhaust company's don't produce thier own pipes and it takes months to get the first batch out. We fill you in on the R&D process as we are doing it, post it on the web so you can see it tell you the recommended jetting, sell the jet seperately for $5 and even let you have a chance to have the opportunity to order it when it done. There is nothing rushed about this process. You've just been used to other companies. Our goal at HMF is to achieve max hp, ensure total quality control, use all high end materials, offer a two year warranty on the pipe and a 10 yr warranty on the packing and above all ensure that your pipe if jetted properly will last a lot longer than you'll probably own the bike.

You've been on this site for just over 40 days now...so, I guess we're both new!

KB-HMF

Pappy
11-17-2003, 07:10 AM
one of my favorite things about having direct communication with the manufacture:D very well done HMF.....you handed him his *** in a most tactful way:p



as far as anyone trying to throw another exhaust company in here to drum up intrest and advertising...dont bother. most of the members here know the skinny and frankly we find it borish. start a thread about your magic pipe and let it go.



rock on HMF

MJNOVA
11-17-2003, 04:13 PM
HMF produced a YFZ exhaust that I own within around the same time frame. I so far have found it to make good HP and has given me zero problems. The warranty for the packing and SS build materials make it a good deal to me.

The question should be will they find more HP given another month or two of development.

HMF---How often do you update your pipe design? Will you in the future build a pipe for the YFZ or Honda for a specific rpm range or riding style?

Thanks

MIA450R
11-17-2003, 11:17 PM
LOL, Pappy, you're a gas...'handled his ***'...ROFL.

I guess you're missing my point HMFer, which very simply is, the quad doesn't actually exist to joe public yet, so joe wouldnt logically consider ordering an aftermarket component for it that is so dependant on the motor's characterists. There's going to be a billion pipes made for this new red ride, and joe would be wise to wait and see what pipe uncorks the new R the best.

Blah blah blah...

No sweat dude, I know HMF is a solid company and makes above average pipes for quads. I've been riding quads for half my life, modding them for just as long, and been a member here for around a couple years. Even tho i stopped logging in for a few months, and lost my login when they changed the forum software. No matter...

Peace. Good luck sellin your "magic" pipe (lol, PAPPY) and if it performs above the others at a decent sound level, this joe public will gladly spend my hard-earned $$ on it.

HMFer
11-18-2003, 07:37 AM
The answer is yes! We did it with the 400EX, the Z400, YFZ, Grizz 660 and right now we are reworking the Predator 500. Somtimes you will only see us making a slip on and not a full system for a new quad. Usually it's because there was no gain with the addition of the header and we can't see charging $200 more for a full system that isn't a significant power increase over the slip on. We started out with just a slip on for the 400ex because we just couldn't get enough ponies out of any of the headers we developed (4 yrs ago). So many people said that thier motor was built and there was no way they would run a stock header. We then went back into re-development. Our background in pipe design comes from designing high performance AMA superbike pipes which uses different steps in generating HP across the powerband, combined with the fact that we needed more tooling for our tubing bender. Tooling that would bend smaller diameter pipe. This allowed us start with smaller tubing and increase the diameter as the pipe travels to the muffler. This dramaticly changed the way we were able to generate hp. You will find stepped headers on almost all of our full system. Since then we redesigned the Z400 two times and the YFZ has already been done twice, and like I said we are redesigning the Predator into a full system. Hopefully with the same success, alot of people have asked for it since the bike came out. We have 33 different models of atv pipes, 25 models of sportbike pipes, 12 MX pipes and a bunch of Harley pipes. When you make that many different models you can use the experience to determine the range of hp that can be achieved out of a bike, even if it hasn't come out yet. It's just averages and proven testing...but we always strive to get as much as we possibly can. In 2004 we will be releasing three and hopefully 4 new lines of pipes. Noise is a big issue that we are addressing in the quad market. On this forum it's mostly sport quads but the rest of the world is into utilities BIG TIME! I hope that answers some questions. Keep em' coming, thats exactly why we sponsor this forum. Look for more from HMF on this forum in Jan. '04

MIA, to answer your question. You've seen the pipe shootouts. The same companies produce the best pipes time after time, it's usually never a surprise. But what does surprise me is the same pipes, made in the same factory, with two different names, will get two different results in the same shoot out...think about THAT!

Thanks
KB
HMF

kgbg
11-18-2003, 09:29 AM
HMF, Thank You for the informative post.
Few questions. If I buy a first run 450R pipe, and say in two years, you have a updated model, that makes more HP, can I get a deal on number 2?

Do you make you pipes from Aluminum, S.S., or ?
Any finish options (Chrome, Ceramic ,ect)?
Thank You

XANDADA
11-18-2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Pappy rock on HMF [/B]

Nicely handled HMF, welcome to board! Nice to see another Clevelander up in here....

HMFer
11-18-2003, 11:04 AM
KGB,

We will always swing you a deal if you have purchased from us before or are a member of the forum. We try to accommodate loyal customers and thier families. We have had some families that have ordered 4 pipes over the years...that's cool in my book!

Our pipes are constructed of: 304 stainless steel headers and inlets, two piece billet aluminum outlets, t6061 aluminum canisters, steel cores and silent sport brand ceramic pillow packing. Powder coating is availble for the canisters. No ceramic coating availble for the hearers (it's not needed w/stainless), spark arrestor (USFS approved later this month) and quiet cores (92db under 500cc and 94-96 500cc and up). The q core is not reccommended for large utility quads.

All HMF Pipes carry a two yr. manufacuters warranty on the can and pipe and a 10 yr warranty on the packing (you must jet properly to warranty packing) and if you do you'll never have to worry about the packing. Your HMF pipe should be performing well after you sell your quad!

KB

MIA450R
11-18-2003, 11:27 AM
Well said, HMFer.

Thanks for going into detail on the workings of your company and not taking my common-sence questions/comments the wrong way (as some of the other members here seem to be). The bottom line is i'm trying to an educated consumer...and that doesn't just apply to products of HMF, the pipe-selling company.

For example, if the new 450R doesn't deliver close to what I'm looking for in a new high-performance (Honda) quad, I'm cancelling my order, and looking elsewhere. I'm sure you would agree, only a foolish customer blindly buys something just because its a certain brand...esp. before he knows anything about it.

Do us a favor and keep updating this post on the R&D, prototype and ultimately the final development of your pipe. If you're willing to do that, I'm sure MANY of us may end up placing a bulk order with you.

And do us a HUGE favor, and put as much effort into a "quiet/trail" model as you do the full-on race models. As I'm sure you know, we need these choices if our riding areas are to stay open!

kgbg
11-18-2003, 12:36 PM
KB,
Thanks for the info. I couldn't ask for a better answer. I must admit, I have had great luck w/ LRD pipes in the past, I was going to get one of their pipes for sure. I will definetly have to chose between HMF or LRD now.
Thank You

whatwasthat
11-18-2003, 03:49 PM
HMFer, check your pm's...you have a message

brif
11-19-2003, 02:21 AM
Originally posted by HMFer
KGB,

spark arrestor (USFS approved later this month)
KB So all the 450r pipes should be USFS approved then. This is good because where I ride it has to be or It's about a $180 ticket and yes I have been stopped and checked. With the pipe USFS approved I will more than likely purchase one now in the spring. Either for a 450r or a yfz.

Cody_300ex
11-29-2003, 05:19 PM
hey HMFer would you ever consider making a full system for the 300EX?

HMFer
12-02-2003, 01:28 PM
If we get another 300EX in here, we could possibly do a full system.

Doibugu2
12-02-2003, 01:35 PM
HMFer, I have seen a lot of questions about the sizes of jets you guys recommend for the 400.

Is this info correct, and why type of jets are you using?

TGW_400ex
12-02-2003, 05:30 PM
man if i didn't already by my T-4 I would be ordering the 400ex pipe RIGHT NOW:(

Maxxed out
12-02-2003, 05:41 PM
Yeahh HMFer you showed him!! Kick his ***!!!!!! Yeaaaaa!!!!

TGW_400ex
12-02-2003, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by Maxxed out
Yeahh HMFer you showed him!! Kick his ***!!!!!! Yeaaaaa!!!!

Yea I'm with you kid:devil:

Maxxed out
12-02-2003, 05:48 PM
Yeahhh me too:macho

TGW_400ex
12-02-2003, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Maxxed out
Yeahhh me too:macho

Ya you 2 kido

HMFer
12-03-2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by Doibugu2
HMFer, I have seen a lot of questions about the sizes of jets you guys recommend for the 400.

Is this info correct, and why type of jets are you using?

Doi,

We dyno every bike we make a pipe for and then pass along our results so it gets you in the ballpark. It's then up to the individual to adjust for his or her own altitude and other atmospheric conditions but based on our 800 feet above sea level and low humidity, you should be one or two sizes up or down if you are in Florida or Colorado.

Why we use keihin jets for keihin carbs or mikuni jets for mikuni carbs is just seemed to make sense at the time. We're simple people here, we try not to make life more difficult than it is already.:macho

Joe/HMF

dads400ex
12-03-2003, 08:40 PM
Hey HMFer, pm'ed ya

thejeepdude
12-04-2003, 09:07 AM
Joe, that makes sense. I think, though, what he was referring to was the fact that your website recommends a 175MJ for a 400EX with slip-on. I have your slip-on and think it's wonderful, and have recommended it to many people. However, after jetting my 400ex with a 170MJ I realized how rich it still was. I am now at a 160MJ and it seems to be on the money. I can't think of any elevation on earth that a 175MJ would be appropriate, except for the fact that by recommending jets that will run rich, you reduce the risk of someone burning up their motor "as a result of installing an HMF pipe". Therefore, I always thought the recomendation was based on this liability issue and looked past it... but are you telling me you really believe a 175MJ is the best performing jet on the 400ex? I don't have a dyno but it seems to me if the plug is coming out black and sooty, there's unburnt fuel, and that means worse gas mileage and less than optimal power.

Thanks,
Josh

P.S. Thanks for your time and willingness to participate on a public board like this!



Originally posted by HMFer
Doi,

We dyno every bike we make a pipe for and then pass along our results so it gets you in the ballpark. It's then up to the individual to adjust for his or her own altitude and other atmospheric conditions but based on our 800 feet above sea level and low humidity, you should be one or two sizes up or down if you are in Florida or Colorado.

Why we use keihin jets for keihin carbs or mikuni jets for mikuni carbs is just seemed to make sense at the time. We're simple people here, we try not to make life more difficult than it is already.:macho

Joe/HMF

HMFer
12-04-2003, 09:28 AM
Josh,

You are exactly right on about the jetting there. We have downsized our jetting recommendations for the 400 EX when we take an order but have not updated the website as of yet. We now recommend a 165 for the slip-on and a 180 for the full system, down from the 200.

We rely on feedback from the customer base as well as what we read from the dyno when we develop a new pipe. In some cases, the information you can get from great boards like EXRiders is more applicable than what we as the manufacturer can provide. We will always be in the ballpark and then we do listen to what you guys have to say and usually we meet in the middle somewhere.

Joe/HMF

remlapr
12-04-2003, 09:33 AM
HMFer - why do you guys recommend only the slip on for a built motor on a 400EX? This seems to be the opposite of what other pipe builders recommend.


BTW - thanks for signing up here and answering our questions :D

HMFer
12-04-2003, 09:59 AM
That head pipe has been redesigned to work well with the built motor. Another website update that is needed...:eek2:

remlapr
12-04-2003, 01:01 PM
reeallly.... How long has it been since the updated model was released? Any easy way to tell the difference?

One other question for you - why no HMF graphics for the 400ex?? I know they aren't the "it" bike anymore, but there are still thousands of them out there...


Thanks again for the info!

HMFer
12-04-2003, 03:08 PM
HMF graphics for the 400 EX...no problem. I might have to make a template, but we have a 400 EX so it's entirely doable.

I think the redesign happened in the last year when we got a new bending tech.

Joe/HMF

Cody_300ex
12-04-2003, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by HMFer
If we get another 300EX in here, we could possibly do a full system.

hey i'll let ya use my 300ex if ya come and pick it up and promise to bring it back! :p

remlapr
12-04-2003, 03:28 PM
I'm likely going to get a full system for my 425 very soon, I was leaning towards the LRD Pro 4, but after hearing this I'm seriously thinking about giving one of your new improved full systems a try now. Did you guys do any dyno testing using a built motor? Is the head pipe still the same large diameter as before? I think I had read that was why they didn't work that great with built motors?

Sorry for all the questions - but if your full system now works as well as the LRD and Sparks on built motors, and it's about $100 cheaper (which I'm pretty sure it is through C&D) then you guys need to get the word out!

jamiesel
12-04-2003, 09:14 PM
HMF...

Are you signing Bill Ballance for 04?