Dual exhaust update [Archive]

400 Dex

11-12-2003, 06:59 AM

I got my 2nd FMF Q pipe yesterday, and mounted it to the stock side of my 400EX. this was easy. But for the "new" side, I had to relocate my battery. I chose to put my Batt in my stock air box. I just cut out the one corner that has a bulge in it, and then it just slipped right in. I had to make a couple little notches in the air box for the stock cables to run to the Batt. I am still having a little difficulty getting the mufflers the same height, but I just need a longer bolt. I also still have to get my custom headers dipped in "MicroCoat" so they don't melt some of the wiring.

So far this project has cost me $840...

pipeline

11-12-2003, 07:30 AM

do you have any pictures.

Pappy

11-12-2003, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by 400 Dex

So far this project has cost me $840...

:huh

11-12-2003, 07:44 AM

You've got your battery in your stock airbox....http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/Smilies/shocker.gif

I had an aluminum box that would hold the battery. It exploded after 4 months of use. You better brace that mofo with some aluminum brackets or something or your gonna find your airbox layin on your swingarm in the trails like i did...:mad:

Insider

11-12-2003, 07:58 AM

proof that lack of brains wont kill immediatley. there are already dual exhaust kits on the market that require almost none of the modifacations you have undertaken. not to put you down....but what the hell are you thinking??

RIjon

11-12-2003, 08:37 AM

Roflmao

UglyMotha™

11-12-2003, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by 400 Dex

So far this project has cost me $840...

:eek2: ya know how much faster you could have made your bike with 840

pnut420

11-12-2003, 01:02 PM

They do sell this exhaust and it comes with an aluminum airbox for $600, not to be a jerk but I would suggest everyone else does this.

hawiianpwr

11-12-2003, 04:47 PM

here it is. Comes with everything you need even an aluminum airbox

http://lteracing.com/allmodelspics/honda/honda.shtml

2001400ex

11-12-2003, 05:22 PM

Maybe he doesn't like the look of that ugly system, because I don't and I've seen a few people on this board say they don't like it either, lay off it's his quad and I'm sure it'll look better then the lte system.;)

wilkin250r

11-12-2003, 06:20 PM

Cool beans, get some pictures.

Like Rico said, brace your battery. Not just inside the airbox, because the airbox mounts aren't designed to handle the added stress that the battery will put on them. Find some way to brace it to the frame so it doesn't stress the airbox mounts.

tprender

11-12-2003, 07:26 PM

Take a good look at the pic's. The top one is of a Honda, but the bottom two are of a Suzuki. And it only gets a 2-3 hp increase. that is not much for $600.

2001400ex

11-12-2003, 07:33 PM

I wouldn't waste my time, or money even considering buying that exhaust system. In my opinion it's extremely ugly too.:rolleyes:

ride300exrider

11-12-2003, 07:36 PM

lets see some pics of this dudes and see which look better

markeg192

11-12-2003, 07:58 PM

The Z silencers looks good but the EX has the cheesy disc system.

airheadedduner

11-12-2003, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by hawiianpwr
here it is. Comes with everything you need even an aluminum airbox

http://lteracing.com/allmodelspics/honda/honda.shtml
One big jump and all taht aluminum will go crunch. Hurts the wallet bad enough when it is just one silencer, but 2:huh

zfire_28

11-13-2003, 12:52 AM

post some pics when you get it done

pnut420

11-13-2003, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by airheadedduner
One big jump and all taht aluminum will go crunch. Hurts the wallet bad enough when it is just one silencer, but 2:huh

Yep I shortened my sparks pipe and after hitting a big jump it still dented the **** out of it.

hondarider2006

11-13-2003, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by airheadedduner
One big jump and all taht aluminum will go crunch. Hurts the wallet bad enough when it is just one silencer, but 2:huh

I would say more money than brains....:huh

Chanman420q

11-13-2003, 01:28 PM

i dont think the LTE looks bad, i think its pretty cool. but not 600 dollars cool

Out_Sider

11-13-2003, 06:43 PM

u can get the silencers that look like the Z's for the 400ex also. But i still dont think i'd waste my money on that...im cool with just my Dual Barrel silencer:o

400 Dex

11-14-2003, 07:36 PM

I'm further from being finished than I thought. The FMFQ pipe that my hook-up got me, came with the wrong exhaust tip..."Sigh..." So I have to take it off with a hex-driver which I left at work... but anyways... it sounds great! and the power gains with the 155 jet are awsome. I did not expect notice much at all, but it tears in the high rpms (compaired to my stock setup). I still have to weld a little brace that locks down the Batt and Airbox. I don't want to show pics till I'm done... but I will go take some now. NE1 know a good upload site?

And to answer why I'm doing this, it's because it is my hobby. I have had several vehicles with my own custom fab work.

2001400ex

11-14-2003, 07:44 PM

I use angelfire. If you don't feel like going through the registration process, you can send them to me then I'll post them when you are finished.

muff

11-15-2003, 02:08 PM

if you want to link to pictures use angelfire, if you want to post the pictures use www.imagestation.com easy to use and the pic will show in the post

as for the dual exhaust I think it's interesting, I wouldnt run it but I've seen a pred. at the races with it and wasn't to bad lookin

NTPRacing#19

11-15-2003, 02:28 PM

i bet the dual exhuast on a single cylinder doesnt sound to good

11-15-2003, 02:29 PM

www.allbrand.nu is much better than image station..and your only running a 155 main:huh i ran a 168 with my exhaust only

Ralph

11-15-2003, 03:05 PM

u know u can buy a dual exhaust system for like 450bucks?

muff

11-15-2003, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Ralph
u know u can buy a dual exhaust system for like 450bucks?

hmm maybe you should have read the 5th post and his reply to it!! :rolleyes: :o

muff

11-15-2003, 03:41 PM

and yes a 155 main doesn't sound big enough but there are many variables involved in jetting

2001400ex

11-15-2003, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by Ralph
u know u can buy a dual exhaust system for like 450bucks?

I PM'd you like two or three weeks ago, did you ever get it? If so can you PM me back with the info since I can't find it? Thanks.

pnut420

11-15-2003, 05:18 PM

Originally posted by 2001400ex
I PM'd you like two or three weeks ago, did you ever get it? If so can you PM me back with the info since I can't find it? Thanks.

Page 1 on this thread

here it is. Comes with everything you need even an aluminum airbox

http://lteracing.com/allmodelspics/honda/honda.shtml

2001400ex

11-15-2003, 05:21 PM

I think you meant to quote Ralph? If not I was talking to Ralph about a local track and what times they're open, not what the exhaust is etc. etc. (FUGLY!):blah:

400 Dex

11-15-2003, 07:20 PM

OK who can host my pics for me? Gimme an e-mail addy please.

2001400ex

11-15-2003, 08:39 PM

sf1veil@yahoo.com

2001400ex

11-16-2003, 06:37 PM

LOOKS GOOD! Good job!:D

http://www.angelfire.com/alt/veilside/400EX018.jpg
http://www.angelfire.com/alt/veilside/400EX027.jpg

400 Dex

11-16-2003, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by 2001400ex
LOOKS GOOD! Good job!:D

Thnx!

4wheelboy

11-16-2003, 07:16 PM

holly shat that looks awsome. good job man reely looks trick:eek2:

muff

11-16-2003, 08:36 PM

your site crashed due to the bandwidth issues of you postin the pics :( dont say I didn't tell you to use imagestation :o

hondarider2006

11-16-2003, 11:13 PM

looks pretty sweet. but I think 2 of the same end caps would look nicer:blah:

11-17-2003, 07:12 AM

I still don't see any supports for the airbox. I got $5 that says your airbox is on the trail your first hard ride....:cool:

Greg Z

11-17-2003, 12:00 PM

is there like a huge power difference since ur useing 2 pipes?

jay's 300

11-17-2003, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by hawiianpwr
here it is. Comes with everything you need even an aluminum airbox

http://lteracing.com/allmodelspics/honda/honda.shtml

My friend bought that kit for his predator and it cost him about $810 after it was said and done. :eek2:

wilkin250r

11-17-2003, 12:30 PM

I think it's a terrific project.

They are really starting to crack down on offroad vehicle sound levels, which limits you to a "quiet" pipe in many cases. My girlfriend tried a quiet pipe, and the performance SUCKED. She got better performance from her stock pipe. And of course, the stock pipe had less noise.

However, with a dual-exhaust setup, each pipe has only 1/2 the airflow, which means less noise. And theoretically, the airflow restriction is less, which means better performance. So now you can have the perfomance increase of ANY pipe and still meet the sound level requirements.

I'm still with Rico on this, SUPPORT YOUR BATTERY!!!! Your airbox was designed to just hang there, not have a 5lb battery bouncing in it. Don't just secure it inside the airbox, secure it to the frame so you don't stress your airbox mounts.

Also, always run with the airbox lid off. Now that your battery is inside your airbox, you have significantly less airspace. The volume of your airbox is like a holding tank. The air inside your snorkel has momentum, and it takes time to get it moving. When you crack the throttle open, the motor pulls air from inside the airbox before it starts pulling the air through the snorkel. Now that your battery is in the airbox, you have less air in your "holding tank" so if you have the lid on, the motor will bog down when you crack the throttle. Always run with the lid off, so you don't run into this problem.

Cody_300ex

11-17-2003, 03:29 PM

The pics are not working for me so could someone e-mail the pics to me?

muff

11-17-2003, 04:57 PM

looks like it came out good :devil:

400 Dex

11-17-2003, 08:59 PM

The new dual head pipes make a major power increase. I upped my Jet to a 165 and am blown away by the performance gains. I will be welding a brace that goes around the air box and connects to the frame. But the air intake system looks like it could be revamped with a ram air system. I thought of making custom air ducts off my fenders, into my air box, but I think I will do something front mounted.

A friend of mine with a 400EX wants me to make him a pair of pipes, so now I'm think'n it would be better to have them graphed, pro forged, and Micro Coated. Maybe we could Dyno test/Tune them and sell a few...

250rpilot

11-17-2003, 09:19 PM

looks like a nice job!! way to go, i always like seeing people make their own stuff, i enjoy fabrication as well

pnut420

11-17-2003, 10:25 PM

However, with a dual-exhaust setup, each pipe has only 1/2 the airflow, which means less noise. And theoretically, the airflow restriction is less, which means better performance. So now you can have the perfomance increase of ANY pipe and still meet the sound level requirements.

Sorry to say this, but this dual exhuast is not going to have the power increase of ANY pipe. Sparks has done alot of testing as well as LRD and all the other major pipe companies. If this dual exhuast setup was so great why wouldnt they make more of them. Also the dual exhaust is not going to be that much quieter than a single exhuast. When a single exhaust goes from the 2 pipes into 1 it is loosing some flow there. He basically now has 2 full size pipes. Its like putting a true 3 inch exhaust on a V-6 s10, it is not going to give it more power, neither will it quiet it. Ive heard dual exhaust on alot of engines and the same engine with single exhaust was actually quieter. Just my .02. With a stock engine setup it seems that exhaust would take alot away from the bottom end and not gain much on the mid and top. Im sure it adds some power, but I gained alot of power from ditching my airbox lid and running no endcap. I wish he owned a sparks or other pipe before so he could compare the power differences.

400 Dex

11-18-2003, 06:49 AM

Single FMF Q < Dual FMF Qs... with a major power difference... Dual pipes is a little louder but not much. They do however have a Harmony aspect to them. Not everyone makes this kit because it requires you to relocate a number of items, and exposes plastics such as the choke switch, and electrical wires to extreme temps. I have welded some small heat shields, and they seem to be working... but I ultimately need them microcoated.

pnut420

11-18-2003, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by 400 Dex
Single FMF Q < Dual FMF Qs... with a major power difference... Dual pipes is a little louder but not much. They do however have a Harmony aspect to them. Not everyone makes this kit because it requires you to relocate a number of items, and exposes plastics such as the choke switch, and electrical wires to extreme temps. I have welded some small heat shields, and they seem to be working... but I ultimately need them microcoated.

Thats sweet man. Thats good you are being honest about the wiring being exposed so others will know what they will go through if they want to do this project. Cool idea but dont recommend it for a serious MXer or XCer.

wilkin250r

11-18-2003, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by pnut420

When a single exhaust goes from the 2 pipes into 1 it is loosing some flow there.

it is not going to give it more power

These two statements are contradictory. You are saying that with 2 pipes into 1 (like the stock headpipe) you are losing flow, but by removing that restriction, you don't get a performance gain?

I agree, he may lose bottom end, but overall with 2 silencers, he should increase flow, and thus top-end performance.

Originally posted by pnut420
If this dual exhuast setup was so great why wouldnt they make more of them.

Cost (2 headpipes, 2 silencers), and the problems associated with installation. You need to possibly re-route wires, and re-locate the battery, all that combined into one kit isn't going to be cheap...

pnut420

11-18-2003, 03:24 PM

I am saying going from two pipes into 1, yes you are losing power but also quieting it down some. There is also no dyno time or any research done to a dual FMF silencer combo, so by saying that he is gaining the power of any pipe and keeping it quiet just didnt make sense. Altough I would love to have a quiet exhaust and still have the performance gain of ANY louder pipe like Sparks or LRD, it just isnt going to happen. It looks cool though. And he actually said it sounds louder than the single exhaust FMF silencer

Originally posted by wilkin250r
These two statements are contradictory. You are saying that with 2 pipes into 1 (like the stock headpipe) you are losing flow, but by removing that restriction, you don't get a performance gain?

I agree, he may lose bottom end, but overall with 2 silencers, he should increase flow, and thus top-end performance.

Cost (2 headpipes, 2 silencers), and the problems associated with installation. You need to possibly re-route wires, and re-locate the battery, all that combined into one kit isn't going to be cheap...

pnut420

11-18-2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by pnut420
I am saying going from two pipes into 1, yes you are losing power but also quieting it down some. There is also no dyno time or any research done to a dual FMF silencer combo, so by saying that he is gaining the power of any pipe and keeping it quiet just didnt make sense. Altough I would love to have a quiet exhaust and still have the performance gain of ANY louder pipe like Sparks or LRD, it just isnt going to happen. It looks cool though. And he actually said it sounds louder than the single exhaust FMF silencer

The only way I could see this exhuast really performing well was if the heads were ported to work with the exhaust, but a stock head just doesnt have the flow the dual pipe/silencers need. A bigger cam would do alot also.

MY brother has an HMF with had 2 huge headpiped going into 1 large single pipe back into a pretty good size silencer, with the stock engine, the Sparks X-6 had more power and is alot louder.
What Im getting at is bigger isnt always better, the headpipes on the HMF are big but then it is going into a pretty restrictive silencer, which is choking it off, where the Sparks has a 2 descent size pipes gradually going into 1, and then at the silencer, it gradually tapers to the round part of the silencer, which creates a smooth flow... I might be babbling a little, I just want to see your thoughts on this, and see if I might be off a little here:blah:

wilkin250r

11-18-2003, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by pnut420
I am saying going from two pipes into 1, yes you are losing power but also quieting it down some. There is also no dyno time or any research done to a dual FMF silencer combo, so by saying that he is gaining the power of any pipe and keeping it quiet just didnt make sense. Altough I would love to have a quiet exhaust and still have the performance gain of ANY louder pipe like Sparks or LRD, it just isnt going to happen. It looks cool though. And he actually said it sounds louder than the single exhaust FMF silencer

We'll never know without extensive testing, so I guess it just comes down to a difference of opinion. I believe the 2-silencer combo WOULD have nearly the performance gain of a Sparks or LRD pipe, while having less noise overall. However, I will concede that the difference isn't going to be tremendous.

I don't expect a setup like this to be marketed, because a few dB decrease in noise simply does not justify the cost and complexity. I think the existing LTE dual exhaust system is more novelty than anything else. For the cost and complexity, I don't think a large-scale market exists.

pnut420

11-18-2003, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
We'll never know without extensive testing, so I guess it just comes down to a difference of opinion. I believe the 2-silencer combo WOULD have nearly the performance gain of a Sparks or LRD pipe, while having less noise overall. However, I will concede that the difference isn't going to be tremendous.

I don't expect a setup like this to be marketed, because a few dB decrease in noise simply does not justify the cost and complexity. I think the existing LTE dual exhaust system is more novelty than anything else. For the cost and complexity, I don't think a large-scale market exists.

Yeah its a cool project to do for sure, Ive spent alot of money of things just to see if I could do it, gotta challenge yourself. I didint want to come off as a jerk about this exhuast or anything, just stating what I thought, I like to hear how it does against other 400's as well

400 Dex

11-21-2003, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by pnut420
Yeah its a cool project to do for sure, Ive spent alot of money of things just to see if I could do it, gotta challenge yourself. I didint want to come off as a jerk about this exhuast or anything, just stating what I thought, I like to hear how it does against other 400's as well

Well... I live in NorCal... where do you ride?

pnut420

11-21-2003, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by 400 Dex
Well... I live in NorCal... where do you ride?

Thats sweet man, the more riders the better. Ive been going to a MX track in Brentwood called Sand Hill Ranch, no rules or regulations, so pure fun. I cant go to Hollister or Carnegie because of my exhaust, we go riding at Pismo every chance we get also. Im getting my quad back together hopefully in the next 2 weeks, 426, etc... I cant wait to ride again. PM me if you want to go riding or just chat.

stupid driver

11-22-2003, 12:39 PM

I think it looks good

whether it gives him gains or not, i think its awesome that he did it, and he didnt do a shltty job either, 2 thumbs up to 400 dex

bigbadbrad

11-23-2003, 04:51 PM

looks good, i think it would look better if you would shorten your siclencers

wilkin250r

11-23-2003, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by 400 Dex
Well... I live in NorCal... where do you ride?

That's cool, maybe we all ought to hook up and ride sometime, I'm in Reno...

pnut420

11-23-2003, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by wilkin250r
That's cool, maybe we all ought to hook up and ride sometime, I'm in Reno...

I live somewhat up North. Takes me about 3 1/2 to 4 hours to get to Tahoe. Im planning on heading up to Kings Beach(grandma has a cabin)s this winter and do some snow riding on qyuads and snowboarding the next day.. Let me know if you would be interested.

Kevin