Rath Racing not standing behind their product [Archive]

dwf126

11-03-2003, 09:40 AM

I recently purchased a rath racing steering stem, and after 4 rides, the stem broke. I sent it back to Rath Racing, and they said they don't warranty their product, and all they can do is sell me one at dealer cost.

I have pictures of the stem which I will post once I get them developed.

For me it is not about the money, I will buy a new stem from someone else. I have never had any problems from lonestar and when my swing arm cracked, they kindly sent me a new one.

I am an honest racer and if I had hit something hard enough to break a steering stem, I would be the first to admit it. I am posting this for people who might care about the money and want to buy a product from a company who will stand behind the items they make.

I don't feel Rath Racing is that type of company. This is just my opinion and others might have had good luck with them. I personally will not buy anything else from them.

The person I race with also bought the same stem and he has no problems with his. I think I was just one of the unlucky ones who got a stem with a problem, and Rath Racing failed to stand behind the products that they make.

$300 is a lot to spend on a steering stem to have it break in 4 races. I bought my LSR in 2000 and I have hit stuff that should have bent, twisted, or broke it and it is still as good as the day I bought it.

bradley300

11-03-2003, 10:29 AM

alot of companies wont warrenty competition products b/c they know the abuse its going thru. i am suprised to see you got a new swingy from lsr.

airheadedduner

11-03-2003, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by bradley300
i am suprised to see you got a new swingy from lsr.
What do you mean? Last time Dan was on here he was passing out new swingarms like skittles:blah:

11-03-2003, 12:42 PM

I don't agree with his business practices either..:grr:

jlr70

11-03-2003, 03:11 PM

Nobody warranties race products, you even admitted that he offered you to replace it at cost. Something more then most companies offer.
From my count there are hundreds of Rath Products out there with happy owners. Buy a stem from someone else if you crash and break it they won't replace it either.
Were you just riding or racing the ironman:eek2: like you told Ben Bettis??

dwf126

11-03-2003, 03:40 PM

When I say ride, I mean race. I don't get much trail riding in. It happened after the Ironman. I did it Casey, IL the weekend after Ironman. I raced the opening Mid South race, a Casey Race, Ironman, and then the Casey race that it broke at. Just in case you are curious as to which races I have been hitting lately. Most manufacturers warrant against defects in craftsmanship and materials. Like I said before. I would admit if I nailed something hard, but I didn't. I hit nothing that should have caused the stem to break and it did. So either Rath products don't hold up very well, or there was a flaw somewhere in the metal. My riding partner has a Rath stem also and has had no problems. I am not doubting the quality of the products that Rath racing makes, but as I said before, when something out of the ordinary occurs, they should stand behind what they make. They chose not to and lost a customer. I am sure that Mr. Rath will sleep okay tonight, as will I. I just wanted to let people know that if they are scraping their money together to buy a stem and actually plan on doing more than a drag race down the road, I would buy something else.

I have been racing on and off for around 4 years and anyone who knows me, knows that I am pretty straight forward person. I am actually glad it broke when it did. Had I been used to my Yamaha and riding hard, I could have been hurt.

cody anderson

11-03-2003, 04:05 PM

Hmmmm... very interesting... Now lets think about this... Would Yamaha warrenty oh.... I don't know, lets say a broken steering stem? Of course not... I know I tried right after I bent my stock one on my 450. Would the warrenty the sub frame on mine either... of course not. God, I wonder why? Gezz I don't know mabey because I race it and crash every once in a while. Call me crazy but I have heard of aftermarket products breaking... I know, I know... That's crazy talk isin't it! Let's see... I broke my LSR swingarm 1 hour after I put it in my Blaster... AT MY OWN PRACTICE TRACK!!! Warrenty? No. I already have a bent LSR axle in my 450 and I have had in there for... 2 weeks now... (And don't get me wrong I like LSR) I broke 5 250R frames... I've broke just about evrthing you throw my way. It sucks trust me. Dude, stuff breaks, Stock and aftermarket. And not only that but sometimes it dosen't even had to be a hard hit... just in the right stop, you know.. that's all. Ever try to send an axle back to Dura blue? Have fun... I have Daryl's stem in my quad and the last 4 of my quads and I have not bent/broke/twisted/ect. any one of them. Nor, have I broke a frame that gusseted for me, or nerf bars he made for me, or bumper, grab bar, sway bar, case saver, clutch cover. In fact not one of Daryl's products have I broke. I CHOOSE to use Daryl's stuff because I have had very good results from them. You however have not. That's very unfortunate. I'm sorry. But, what would happen if you bring a frame back to Laegers of LRD tell them that yopu broke it? They would laugh at you. So what am I saying after all this mumbo jumbo? I am saying that you just happened to hit it in the right spot more than likely... And I would take him up on the dealer cost stem. It's that or pay another $350 or 375 or what ever from LSR. You said your self, you friend or whatever has one and never had any problems... So... let me ask you again. WHY DID YOUR STEERING STEM BREAK?

ex kid

11-03-2003, 04:39 PM

correct me if im wrong but didnt LRD fix all the early R frames that broke.

BTW sorry it broke dude, but shi* happens. wonder what ITP would say if i wanted to send my tire back after i got a flat on the first lap of my last points race.

dwf126

11-03-2003, 04:40 PM

I don't know why it broke. I am very sorry to hear that you have broken as many parts as you have. I know it sucks. I have broken many a parts and most of them met my expectations. The Rath Steering stem I purchased did not. If I had ridden it hard, I would understand. I am glad that you have luck with Darly's stuff. If I were you, I would continue to use it. I never I said I doubted the quality of his work. I however have had better results with different companies, and from now I, I will stick with those companies.

I wasn't trying put anyone's products down, I was just telling my story.

If I had rode wide open into a tree, or even hit something hard. I could see it. You said you race and sometimes you crash. Well I didn't crash. I don't expect a product of that caliber to twist and break without the rider at least feeling something.

Like you said, maybe it just hit that right spot, but my LSR stem never did in 4yrs of racing, and my Rath stem must have in 4 laps of very light racing.

I assume you can read so should know that I never once belittled Mr. Rath or his products. I just wasn't happy with the way he backed his products. I understand he doesn't know me from anyone else that might call and for all he knows I could have dropped off a building.

That was his call and I am just telling my story. Take it how you like.

BTW. I bent an X-33 axle and dura blue sent me another one in less than a week.

Dave400ex

11-03-2003, 04:45 PM

It surprises me more companies don't offer a warranty. RPM seems like the only one that actually offers one. LSR, Arens, and other guys seem to stand behind their products and most of the time fix, or replace it. Many will give you a great deal on a part if you have problems, but if you all ready had problems with one, why would you want to buy another?

dwf126

11-03-2003, 04:56 PM

I also find it strange that when I talked to Rath, they said they redesigned the part of the stem that broke on mine. If the design wasn't flawed, why would they update it?

funluckey

11-03-2003, 05:19 PM

I saw that stem personally, and to me it looked like a large carbon deposit in the metal, "a defect in materials". I also have one of these stems and it has been doing fine, but I will be calling tomorrow about this update on the small mounting hardware it came with.

forum

11-03-2003, 08:40 PM

i dont know the whole deal with your steering stem. So i can't say anything about that. But one thing i can say is Daryl raths is a lying salesman. Once Daryl was qouted the new predator had more hp then his ktm 520!! get a life. I can see promoting it cause they gave you a few. But to flat out lie!! get a life. A guy i race with (thomas) has a ktm 450 quad and called rath to ask him about some things. He also asked about his comment on the predator being faster then his 520. He said something like " well we've got it close to the same peak Hp as the 520, and we will make it have more soon"

What a load.

Why are you not happy with him rico?

11-04-2003, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by forum

Why are you not happy with him rico?

It was over some peg extenders and a group buy deal, and a few other reasons that I would rather not mention as to not bring up other names..:o

And if this stem broke without a crash even happening is for chit. If ya wreck and bend or break something then yeah your screwed but for a stem to break from just being bolted on...:eek2: Come on..:huh

ranger400ex

11-04-2003, 07:01 AM

PRM states no warranty...but they have taken care of problems.
GCD stands behind his work
Diamond Racing stands behind there stuff
Suzuki will warranty stock frames if they are falling apart or breaking even if they know it is raced, in fact they encourage us to speak with our racers.
Shoei, Arai, and couple others will replace a helmet if it cracks, they have also replaced wrecked helmets for shipping costs, if you tell them how it happened, send them a letter or email, and your old helmet.

Here is my take, and let the flaming begin.
If you sell a product that is truly top notch...it will be backed up, and sometimes even when it shouldn't be.

Alot of the manufactureer are forgetting one very important thing...if you don't care of your customer...somebody else will. Sometimes you have to step up to the plate and make it right...is Rath going to go out of business by replacing the stem for free or just shipping costs...absolutely not...but I can gurantee if I just broke a stem from riding hard...or even racing...and not from neglect or crash...then they could step up...or someone else would get my business. I am sick and freaking tired of manufacturers bragging their products, and when push comes to shove their pu$$y way out of it is "oh, it was used for racing...sorry can't help ya, but I can sell ya a new one" as far as I am concerned, if you act or respond like this...you might as well partner up with DG and sell more overpriced, underbuilt, unbacked, crap.

Ben Wrightsman

11-04-2003, 07:12 AM

I can say even though Meszaro motorsports customer serv. went to crap. I bent the stem below when I nailed a tree in a race. He sent me a new one free of cost. He might not do that for everyone but at least he stood behind his product. He changed the design after this. I guess I found a flaw in the bottom bracket that hits the stops in the frame..:o And this stem cost's like half of what most stems cost..

exman

11-04-2003, 07:24 AM

all I can say is SERVICE TO THE CUSTOMER is king, returning customers keep businesses going....thats all there is to it.

business 101= firms don't make long run profit on a one time sale, but they do make a long run profits all multiple sales to returning customers.

cdalejef

11-04-2003, 07:25 AM

Originally posted by exman
all I can say is SERVICE TO THE CUSTOMER is king, returning customers keep businesses going....thats all there is to it.

business 101= firms don't make long run profit on a one time sale, but they do make a long run profits all multiple sales to returning customers. AMEN!

cody anderson

11-04-2003, 07:26 AM

I think theres people that are pissed off just because they did't get free chit... I believe a wise man once said " let's think about this... why would you gaurentee something... because they know all they sold you was a gauenteed peice of chit, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it gauenteed, I will. I got some extra time" Wait... that guy died from a coke over dose... mabey not too wise. But at any rate as far as hp between the ktm and the predator... that is not a lie. I have seen the dyno print outs... Do I care how much hp he gets out of the predator... hell no. I want him to get as little out of it as possible because I race against his ***. I assure you that there will be a time that the predator will have the same hp numbers as the ktm. Daryl is a good person who runs a good honest business. I personally did't really like him about 5 years ago. Now, Daryl is honestly one of my best friends/sponsors. And as far why did I not really like him? Because I was too ***** to talk to him and get to know him. I will put my life on the line that Daryl would never intentionally screw ANYBODY!!! This whole thing is a very unfortunate mishap. Daryl told you what he will do for you... and now thats not good enough. Do you think that he really wants an upset customer? Of course, not get into reality!!! Look I have the same exact stem as you do. And I just crashed mine last week. I flat landed from 40 off the groud, and of course it then fliped and what not. And mine is fine. So tell me WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED???

jlr70

11-04-2003, 07:56 AM

As far as I can tell he did stand behind his product..he offered to replace it at cost, which wasn't good enough for you and you did
not even buy it from Rath you purchased it from Magic Racing.

For the person complaining about Raths KTM comment READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE not just pieces he commented on the similarties of the Predator and KTM
Here are the numbers on his 440 - if I am a betting man I would put money on the fact his 590 has higher numbers, pretty damn close to the KTM.
ATV Sport published this let me quess they are lying also.

ATV SPORT MAGAZINE ran Daryl Rath's Pro Production Class Predator 440 TT racer on there Dynojet Dyno and were pleased with the numbers. The kit-which will be available soon-put out 45.9 HP at the rear wheel. The powerband was nice and wide and had a wide top end. The engine was completely stock with no head work. Rath added a White Brothers exhaust system, a TC Racing-tuned Lectron Carb and a K&N pod filter intake from a 400EX. All of this information can be found in the ATV Sport Magazine, December 2003, page 12.

You are right he wouldn't go out of business, he offered to make it right, not good enough. He would go out of business giving free product to everyone!!!

dwf126

11-04-2003, 08:31 AM

Cody, like I have said in other forums. If I had crashed mine from a 40 double and it broke, I would gladly purchase another one from him. I however did nothing of that nature. That is what bothered me about the whole situation. Also, when I talked to him, he said he redesigned the area where mine broke.... Kind of strange. Why change a manufacturing process, if there is nothing wrong with it?

I would probably argue your point also if I received all my products from Rath and he sponsored me. I however had to pay full price, for what in my opinion, was a either a manufacturing or material defect.

You are making my point for me. You crashed of a double and yours didn't break. I never crashed mine and it broke.

When funluckey and I took the stem off, there was a clean break on half of the stem and the metal looked good and the splines weren't twisted. The other side looked like a big carbon deposit and the metal was crumpled to **** and the splines were twisted. Why would only half of the splines twist and the other half be perfect?

I don't want anything free, I just want what I paid for. I bought a Chromoly stem for its strength over OEM stem because I am a racer and I expect my bike to hold up. I didn't buy it to look pretty or to cruise up and down the street. I paid premium $ for a premium product and that wasn't what I received. I am not saying the stems he produces aren't premium, I am confident that they are. The particular one that I received, had an issue with it and Rath isn't going to do anything about it. If Mr. Rath honestly believes that every piece of equipment that he produces will all be made perfectly and all the raw materials he gets will be without defects, then he is living in a dream world. When these problems arise, I expect a quality manufacturer to stand behind his products.

Derek

cody anderson

11-04-2003, 08:46 AM

"When funluckey and I took the stem off, there was a clean break on half of the stem and the metal looked good and the splines weren't twisted. The other side looked like a big carbon deposit and the metal was crumpled to **** and the splines were twisted. Why would only half of the splines twist and the other half be perfect? "

Do you even know what a carbon deposit is? And why is half the splines ok and the other half not. Geez, I don't know probably because half of them are inside a cast knuckle for the tie rods to go on. Call me crazy, but I beleive that would mean that the whole splined knuckel would have to twist also. Did YOU put this stem in?

dwf126

11-04-2003, 08:52 AM

Once again Cody, you are proving my point. The splines were inside the tie rod housing and that is where it broke. About 60% of the circumference of the stem looked good, the splines were straight and everything looked as it should. The other 40% looked like a completely different type of metal and the splines were twisted and the metal looked like it pulled apart as opposed to breaking.

If all the metal was the same strenght and quality, wouldn't it stand to reason that all the splines would have twisted?

cody anderson

11-04-2003, 09:01 AM

How am I proving your point? Are you insane?

Let me ask you this, If I gave you a steering stem, would you be happy?

dwf126

11-04-2003, 09:04 AM

If you gave me a steering stem, I wouldn't be happy. That is not the point of this thread at all. I will buy a LSR stem before the start of next years GNCC series. The stem isn't the issue here, it is the lack of support from the manufacturer. It is too late to make my situation right, but maybe Mr. Rath can look at these forums and maybe make a different decision next time.

You proved my point, because if the stem was in the housing, the entire thing should have twisted and it didn't.

badazz400

11-04-2003, 09:23 AM

I've been waiting for a swaybar from Rath Racing for about 2 months now. They including Darrell keep promising me two weeks, two weeks. I am about sick of their costumer service if you don't have just tell me!!!

jlr70

11-04-2003, 09:29 AM

Rath did try to make it right, you wanted one free...you didn't mention anywhere in your posts that you bought the stem from Magic, not Rath. Why are you only claiming Rath did you wrong?
A stem doesn't just twist from being bolted on, you did what you threatened to do while you where trying to get a free one. If Rath didn't replace the one you had you were going to talk trash about him. :rolleyes:
Let it go I am sure EVERY company has someone who has felt wronged. Just like every company has people that praise them to know end.

cody anderson

11-04-2003, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by dwf126
If you gave me a steering stem, I wouldn't be happy. That is not the point of this thread at all. I will buy a LSR stem before the start of next years GNCC series. The stem isn't the issue here, it is the lack of support from the manufacturer. It is too late to make my situation right, but maybe Mr. Rath can look at these forums and maybe make a different decision next time.

You proved my point, because if the stem was in the housing, the entire thing should have twisted and it didn't.

HEEELLLOOOO! Let me think... "it is the lack of support from the manufacturer" the support back would be a free stem. Are you reading through this ALL?

dwf126

11-04-2003, 09:35 AM

I have let it go. I just stated my case and everyone else can think what they want from it.

I didn't include that I bought if from Magic Racing, because I didn't see how that made any possible difference.

It wasn't a Rath steering stem made by Magic Racing.

Rath manufactured the stem. If I bought some hiper rims from the quad shop and one of them broke, I would hold hiper responsible, not the quadshop. Same situation here.

Like I said, I don't want a free stem. I wouldn't use it if he offered one to me. I might sell it and buy one I trust.

I'm not talking trash about him either. I simply stated that I purchased a stem that he manufactured, and it had what I believe to be a material defect, and all he offered was to sell me another for $40 bucks less than I paid for the first one.

Sorry but no thanks. If that is acceptable service to you, then by all means, I will make you all the parts that you want, and back them the very same way.

dwf126

11-04-2003, 09:37 AM

Cody the support from the manufacturer would have been a replacement stem ( not a free stem ) when the issue occured.

cody anderson

11-04-2003, 09:49 AM

what exactly is the diferece between a replacement stem and a free one?

cody anderson

11-04-2003, 09:55 AM

"and it had what I believe to be a material defect" And WE OFFERED TO SELL IT TO YOU FOR $185.00 NOT $260.00 I know I was there.

cody anderson

11-04-2003, 09:56 AM

"and it had what I believe to be a material defect" what I believe to be... God isin't that interesting Anyways, I'm done with this.

dwf126

11-04-2003, 09:59 AM

A free stem would be if I called up Rath Racing and said

"Hey Daryl, any chance you can send me a stem. I think it would look good on my bike, but I don't want to pay for it."

A replace would be

"Hey Daryl, I bought a stem from you and it broke for no clear reason, I paid for a quality stem, and I have sent you back the defective one, could you replace it."

The difference is I paid $300 for a quality stem and I got a piece of crap in a box as you say elequantly put earlier.

If it were free, I wouldn't be out $300 that I paid for it.

If it were replaced, I would have gotten what I paid for.

cody anderson

11-04-2003, 10:02 AM

that not what i said... :huh

dwf126

11-04-2003, 10:04 AM

He offered $260 with clamps or $185 without. I paid $299 with clamps or it would have ben $220 without.

I would rather shell out an extra $30 for a LSR than make the same mistake twice.

Pappy

11-04-2003, 10:09 AM

sounds like rath needs to take a look at this stem. if there is an issue with the metalurgy then id sure as hell want to see it in person if i were the manufacture.

dwf126

11-04-2003, 10:15 AM

I sent him the stem back. He told me that I must have hit something prett hard to do that to a stem. I agree, It looks like someone dropped it off a building and it landed on the handlebar.

Unless someone stole it out of my garage and drove into a tree and put it back, I don't know how that could have happened.

As I said earlier, I don't want a replacement stem. I don't want anything from Rath. I just wanted people to know what happned to me before they make thier decision on which manufacturer to buy from.

exman

11-04-2003, 10:19 AM

there is always two sides to a story.

manufacturer and customer

1. If it has or potentially had a defect and the manfacturer has stated that it had a problem and has now fixed that problem

then stem regardless of whether it is raced or a feather dropped on it should be exchanged

2. if stem was good no defects and was broke racing, riding
( and that doesn't mean flipping at 100mph and slamming a tree)

then an comprimise should be made between the customer and the seller

3. if stem was bent because of abuse by rider

then rider bears the burden

but the bottom line is, word of mouth is a killer, service and comprimise brings profits, because it brings customers back and GAINS new customers

all sides of story have to be examined

dwf126

11-04-2003, 10:27 AM

Well said.

I know that Mr. Rath didn't know me, but the things that stuck in my mind were.

1. The design in that area of the stem were changed.

2. The offer he made me didn't sound like much of a compromise to me.

3. The metal around the area that broke looked very different on one side of stem where it twisted.

My point has been made, and I think it is time this forum be put to rest.

Derek

bmw500hp

11-04-2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by dwf126
I have let it go. I just stated my case and everyone else can think what they want from it.

I didn't include that I bought if from Magic Racing, because I didn't see how that made any possible difference.

It wasn't a Rath steering stem made by Magic Racing.

Rath manufactured the stem. If I bought some hiper rims from the quad shop and one of them broke, I would hold hiper responsible, not the quadshop. Same situation here.

Like I said, I don't want a free stem. I wouldn't use it if he offered one to me. I might sell it and buy one I trust.

I'm not talking trash about him either. I simply stated that I purchased a stem that he manufactured, and it had what I believe to be a material defect, and all he offered was to sell me another for $40 bucks less than I paid for the first one.

Sorry but no thanks. If that is acceptable service to you, then by all means, I will make you all the parts that you want, and back them the very same way.

and all he offered was to sell me another for $40 bucks less than I paid for the first one. :D :D :D

Dave400ex

11-04-2003, 03:34 PM

I agree with Pappy. Rath should have wanted to look at it if there might be a problem with the material. If there is a problem, you should get a replacement no questions asked.

jlr70

11-04-2003, 03:47 PM

Magic has been selling Rath Stems for years..with out problems.If it was Rath's normal business practice not to take care of his customers he would have been out of business along time ago.Rath tried to make it right offered to look at the stem and then offered to replace it at Dealer cost. even though the stem was purchased through a retailer.
There are MANY people including top Pros running Rath stuff and happy with it. In the real world you can't please everyone.
The kid isn't telling the whole story...he was racing the Ironman tough race, he is trying to make it sound like it just broke after a couple easy laps..RIGHT there are no easy laps on the Ironman.
Cody stated that it wasn't a clean break, but twisted sounds like he hit something!

dwf126

11-04-2003, 09:12 PM

There are no easy laps in any race, but as mentioned before, these conditions are the reason that these products are purchased.

At 25, I wouldn't consider myself old, but I wouldn't say I am a kid either. I am responsible for my own actions, and this happened while using the product for its intended purpose, with no extraordinary circumstances.

Those of you that think I am lying and I hit a tree wide open, obviously don't know me, but that is your choice. Those of you that do, know that I wouldn't go through all of this if I didn't feel it was worth mentioning.

I could care less about $300 I dropped on the stem, I just don't agree with the way the situation was handled. I let everyone know what happened, and now it is done. They can form their own opinions.

Derek

kicker696

11-04-2003, 09:52 PM

i don't know about rath, so i'm not gonna bash them! but what i do know is that janssen racing has a lifetime warrenty on all of there products that they make and sell, and they are excellent on it to! A buddy of mine that i race with rolled his cannondale in practice, bent the stem, next day he took it to janssen and they personally took off the stem and put the new one in free of cost, now that is service!

I go down there just about every day, and joel is a great guy to deal with and very reasonable. i've had his a-arms, and my brother has there a-arms, stem, and swing arm on his blaster and loves all of them, never had a problem.

airheadedduner

11-04-2003, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by jlr70
Magic has been selling Rath Stems for years..with out problems.If it was Rath's normal business practice not to take care of his customers he would have been out of business along time ago.Rath tried to make it right offered to look at the stem and then offered to replace it at Dealer cost. even though the stem was purchased through a retailer.
There are MANY people including top Pros running Rath stuff and happy with it. In the real world you can't please everyone.
The kid isn't telling the whole story...he was racing the Ironman tough race, he is trying to make it sound like it just broke after a couple easy laps..RIGHT there are no easy laps on the Ironman.
Cody stated that it wasn't a clean break, but twisted sounds like he hit something!
If he hit something hard enough to break the stem like that he probly broke other chit too, and I see no posts about him trying to screw other company's. Why would he single out and pick on Rath then??

Cody is sponsered by Rath. Not to start anything with you man but because of that the best thing you could have did was stay out of this thread and just inform Rath of it cause your opinion is biased. I know you are trying to represent your sponser respectfully and give them a good image but there is a line. Defects happen. Do you deny what he is discribing?? Can you get pics and disprove him?? The stem is not what is in question anymore, its how Rath handled it.

Texan32

11-05-2003, 06:04 AM

Originally posted by airheadedduner
If he hit something hard enough to break the stem like that he probly broke other chit too, and I see no posts about him trying to screw other company's. Why would he single out and pick on Rath then??

Cody is sponsered by Rath. Not to start anything with you man but because of that the best thing you could have did was stay out of this thread and just inform Rath of it cause your opinion is biased. I know you are trying to represent your sponser respectfully and give them a good image but there is a line. Defects happen. Do you deny what he is discribing?? Can you get pics and disprove him?? The stem is not what is in question anymore, its how Rath handled it.

Beautifully said. Too many of you are reading the words and not HEARING what he is saying. There are some poeple that don't mind spending cash on good products from reputable manufacturers'.

Re-read what dwf posted. Don't listen, but try HEAR his point. He doesn't care that the stem was 300 bucks. He could care less that it was a Rath product. He would have reacted the exact same way if it were Herrman, LSR, Gibson........ Its the PRINCIPAL of the entire thing. If it was a 5 dollar product or a 500 dollar product...its would still be about the PRINCIPAL.

Great example....Raptor tranny's....how many of the first year raptor's blew tranny's? I don't know a single person that hasn't had problems. Did they change the design? HE!! yes. Did they offer to fix/replace the tranny with new or even updated parts? In MOST cases...HE!! NO. How many Yamaha owner did that piss off?! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. How many customers did Yamaha loose cuz of that? I don't know. But i bet it was a "few".
Take all that and put it against Cannondale. How many problems has Dale had with their quads. It make's my brain hurt to count that high. But, how many of these problem weren't (almost immediately and with very little service rep. hastle) fixed?! NOT VERY MANY. Thats because because Cannondale knows customer service.

Now, i know that cannondale went "tits-up" and had to sell. But that is because cannondale has eye's a little bit bigger than their stomach's. They have/had their fingers in too many cookie jars...too many completely independant/different products. It wasn't because they backed their product!

cody anderson

11-05-2003, 07:17 AM

Ben Bettis

11-05-2003, 10:12 AM

It has been brought to my attention about our company is not standing behind our product and not taking care of our customers. What has not been said in this forum is the fact that we idd try to take care of this customer. We offered him a stem at $185. That is 40% off retail and $75 off of dealer price. We tried to work with his father to keep both sides happy. Derek's father wanted a free stem and nothing less. Now if you think that by not giving away free product means we are not standing behind it, then you don't understand business fully. We understand things go wrong with parts, Daryl and myself have torn up enough Laeger,RPM, or other big name components that could fill up a semi. But to just call ask to have free stuff sent is not possible. We tried to make both sides of this problem happy. dereks father insisted that we do not make quality products, yet wanted to have another one of our products on his bike. To me thats like shooting yourself in the foot. rath racing does not have any hard feelings towards anyone involved in this controversy. But people need to hear the whole truth, not just one parties opinion. I hope I have settled this issue and people can move on with their racing lives. Thanks, Ben Bettis

11-05-2003, 10:36 AM

I"m still trying to figure out how a metal chromoly pole bent/broke without hitting something.:confused: If it did break without hitting something it's a defective part, end of story, free replacement.

Lets see some pics of the bad part....:cool:

monkeyboy

11-05-2003, 10:41 AM

my polls brokk 2 :mad:

:cool: :mad:

jlr70

11-05-2003, 11:43 AM

How do you know it didn't hit something??
Oh thats right he said so:rolleyes:
Like he is going to admit that!!
I find it really funny that he buys the stem from Magic and never even calls them...or did he not like thier answer either.
Think about it...you buy a so-called faulty battery from NAPA do you call the manufactor of the batterey or NAPA???
I would bet money on the fact that with the relationship between Rath and Magic if the stem was faulty it would be replaced.

Insider

11-05-2003, 11:46 AM

so who is full of it here?

is it rath racing for basically breaking even on a suspected part failure? mr bettis you need to go to school and learn about customer service and satisfaction. re-read the above figures and tell me where the deal is?

or is it the person complaining who may have wrecked but figured he would try his best to get a new stem? sounds like you have sour grapes but i understand. i dont agree with you completely but we all get the shaft when it comes to alot of these companies.

Texan32

11-05-2003, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by jlr70
How do you know it didn't hit something??
Oh thats right he said so:rolleyes:
.

talk about guilty till proven innocent..

so you WERE THERE?! YOU saw him draw a bead on that humongus tree and then watched him smack right into it in 3rd at WFOT?! No you did't. The door swings both ways there big shot.

By the way he talks, he seems like the kind of individual that would show off his battle scar if the Ironman had been the one to take him down, not a "defective product" But hey, what do I know. I have been wrong twice in my life. Prehaps he IS full of garbage and he did wreck. And all this is just a "kid" tring to draw some sympothy and a free produce. Well, if so, then i have now been wrong 3 times in this life. But my gut tells me that I'm NOT.

Pappy

11-05-2003, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by jlr70
How do you know it didn't hit something??
Oh thats right he said so:rolleyes:
Like he is going to admit that!!
I find it really funny that he buys the stem from Magic and never even calls them...or did he not like thier answer either.
Think about it...you buy a so-called faulty battery from NAPA do you call the manufactor of the batterey or NAPA???
I would bet money on the fact that with the relationship between Rath and Magic if the stem was faulty it would be replaced.

actually most retailers suggest contacting the manufacture of any product if its defective. if he had called magic id bet to say they would have given him raths #.

jlr70

11-05-2003, 12:09 PM

Mr Bettis's math is fine stem retail $300 buy at $185 sounds like a deal....probalbly not good enough when the only thing he wanted was a free new one.
You are damn right the door swings both ways...everyone was ready to believe that he didn't hit something just because he said so..all I did was swing the door back.

talk about guilty till proven innocent..
:eek2: :eek2:
You all charged Rath as guilty for not standing behind his product without knowing both sides..
There is always two sides!!
Maybe Magic told him they wouldn't replace it either:devil: because it wasn't faulty so he tried the next best thing
The only point I am trying to make is everyone gets on a flaming wagon without knowing all the facts.
We can argue you this all day...and it boils down to we will never know the whole story so we should not judge!

Pappy

11-05-2003, 12:13 PM

first off rath isnt being proven anything...niether is the accusing member. he merely stated his history concerning rath and this stem...and i didnt see where he bad mouthed them at all. now maybe after the 2 or 3 rath supporters climbed up his *** he got a tad bit testy and i can understand that.

if the stem retails for $300 with clamps....and $225 without clamps....selling it for $185 (dealer price i believe) basically gives him a stem at dealer price and rath loses NOTHING. at $185 rath still makes the usual mark up as if it was a new sale to a dealer.

im not taking sides....merely pointing out what i see.

jlr70

11-05-2003, 12:22 PM

Pappy I can see your point...but I am pretty sure Magic has made a profit in this transaction also...they aren't in this business for fun..do you not agree it is a bit odd they aren't involved in this at all???
He even stated he never even contacted Magic.
I will say it again Magic has been selling Rath stems for years hundreds of them...if it was faulty I would bet between Magic/Rath/Mr Customer something could have been worked out before the swearing and threats started.

remlapr

11-05-2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Rico
I"m still trying to figure out how a metal chromoly pole bent/broke without hitting something.:confused: If it did break without hitting something it's a defective part, end of story, free replacement.

Lets see some pics of the bad part....:cool:

I agree with Rico and I believe the guy when he says he didn't hit anything.

Texan32

11-05-2003, 12:39 PM

one time at quad camp...i rev'd my engine too fast and i broke my muffler bearings...

cody anderson

11-05-2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Texan32
one time at quad camp...i rev'd my engine too fast and i broke my muffler bearings...
That happened to me too :(

Pappy

11-05-2003, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by jlr70
Pappy I can see your point...but I am pretty sure Magic has made a profit in this transaction also...they aren't in this business for fun..do you not agree it is a bit odd they aren't involved in this at all???
He even stated he never even contacted Magic.
I will say it again Magic has been selling Rath stems for years hundreds of them...if it was faulty I would bet between Magic/Rath/Mr Customer something could have been worked out before the swearing and threats started.

i have some insight on this type of issue with the company i manage. if a customer has a warranty it is usually handled at the dealer level...however ..if there is an issue that the dealer cant or wont resolve....we take care of the consumer leaving the dealer out of it. sure the dealer made money....but if i want to keep him as a dealer and the consumer buying my products i take care of them. if that means i lose money on 1 unit thats fine. if it becomes an issue with a certain part # or a dealer repeatedly has these problems i take a different approach. CUSTOMER SERVICE is where its at. we handle over 4000 warranties a year at my location. thats only 2 % of what we sell. (or thats what the bean counters told me) i have almost NO bad feedback from consumers or dealers. im in business for the long run....not just a year or two. and if you dont think bad business wont sink the ship...hand me your life preserver...im a big fella:p

airheadedduner

11-05-2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by cody anderson
That happened to me too :(
Mine too:( It came apart and cracked my blinker fluid rezzy, causeing my flux capaciter to overheat. I had to rebuild the whole damn muffler:grr: Cody, way to maintain your sense of humor, your maturity has kept me from counting out Rath in my future quest for more mods :)

I gotta agree with pappy. I go where I get free chit. :D My honda dealer knows this, so by cutting me a huge deal on parts like a hinson basket I come back and buy everything I need from them. It works out for them in the end and I am happy too. I also have no problems then with representing their company. SO when someone asks me where to go I tell em. As far as Magic's invovlement, I usually am refered to the manufacturer in a case like that.

dwf126

11-05-2003, 02:36 PM

As JLR so passiontaley asked, I sent Magic Racing an e-mail. They said that contacted Rath Racing and Rath told them the same thing he told me.

Had I called Magic to begin with, they would have done 1 of 2 things.

1. Told me to call Rath.
2. Talked to Rath, who then would have called me. In the end, it all worked out the same.

People, Magic Racing has done nothing wrong and please don't think that they are not a good company. I have ordered tons from them and always gotten good service.

As far as if I hit something. I don't know any motocross people, so maybe they do try to screw companies out of parts. I am an XC racer, and that is just not the type of people we are. I have been racing XC since 99 and I have met lots of great people. When my stem did break, there lots of nice people to help me get my bike back to the truck. That is what makes ATV racing such a great sport. The people are honest and just love the sport.

The reason we asked for a replacement stem was not because we think that Rath racing sells junk. At that time, we didn't want the issue to turn out like this. I believe he sells fine products. The craftsmenship of the stem was fine.

After all this, I wouldn't use one, but it has nothing to do with the quality of the parts.

My friend ordered the stem from Magic w/o the clamps for $220, so that stuff about $185 being %50 off or whatever is non sense.

A reasonable offer would have been half of the manufacturing cost of the stem, if not replacement. That way we both take a loss and we both gain.

And by the way, I won the Ironman in 4Str C in 2001, and amazingly enough, I did it with out breaking a stem or anything else. So it is possible to race the Ironman and not break anything. Just don't flip down the hills!

Ironman wasn't even the race it broke at.

As a wise man once said
"That's about all I got to say about that!"

:D

cody anderson

11-05-2003, 02:57 PM

Mabey we should just have a couple of beers and all chill out...:confused: lol Hot chicks would't hurt either:devil:

exman

11-05-2003, 03:07 PM

I need a swing arm for a 300ex...like real bad....somebody out there has one or knows who has one.

help

dwf126

11-05-2003, 03:36 PM

Hot chicks thread on blue traxx kicks a--!

cody anderson

11-05-2003, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by exman
I need a swing arm for a 300ex...like real bad....somebody out there has one or knows who has one.

help
Yeah, accually I do know somebody... It's a stock one though.

cody anderson

11-05-2003, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by dwf126
Hot chicks thread on blue traxx kicks a--!
Where is that one?

quadracer12

11-05-2003, 06:08 PM

Im glad derek started this thread. its nice to see how a company will stand behind their products, or not. this is alot of what this forum is about. exriders trying to help other exriders from making mistakes. He's out $300 but he may have saved many other people from that mistake. maybe we will get alittle more respect when we tell a company that we are members at exriders. with over 15,000 members, if a faulty product is not takin care of the word will be spread of your business practices. I believe derek and funlucky. but for you that don't i'm sure that the pictures he has will clear that up.

I know that cromoly steel is expensive but i think that daryl has alot less than $185 in that stem. He!! he could have offered it to him at materal cost and ate the labor since he didn't do the job right the first time.

cody, it is great to see you stand behind your friend and sponsor. you seem to be a real asset to his business. but maybe you can get daryl on here to clear up his bad word of mouth that he is getting. remind him that he has over 15,000 potential costumers listening

jlr70, i really don't see how magic has anything to do with this. if this is a faulty product they should not be out the money. it should be the one that made the product. if rath exchanged the broken one for a new one he is not out the commision that magic made. he is only out the cost of materials

cody anderson

11-06-2003, 06:58 AM

"cody, it is great to see you stand behind your friend and sponsor. you seem to be a real asset to his company"

Thanks man.

XANDADA

11-06-2003, 07:00 AM

Originally posted by dwf126
Hot chicks thread on blue traxx kicks a--!

POS!

Try rriders.com for the real deal:devil: If ya know where to look....:macho

dwf126

11-06-2003, 02:24 PM

I have heard a lot of good stuff about the Jansen stuff. Does anyone have a contact website or phone #?

thanks

bmw500hp

11-06-2003, 10:09 PM

This had been an interesting thread, in more than a few ways.

In the end however, it's really a shame that 2 parties have went through all this public BS and still can't walk away from the negotiation table with some form of mutual agreement.

pnut420

11-06-2003, 11:13 PM

Originally posted by dwf126
He offered $260 with clamps or $185 without. I paid $299 with clamps or it would have ben $220 without.

I would rather shell out an extra $30 for a LSR than make the same mistake twice.

Cody is making me laugh today :macho

pnut420

11-06-2003, 11:18 PM

I bought a used Roll Design Stem for $170, retail for around $350 and their is now way that I expect any type of flaws in this metal, correct me if Im wrong, but Im more than happy with this stem.

Mxbubs

11-07-2003, 12:26 AM

HHHMMMMNNNN>........................hehehehe....it amazes me at how you guys are so loyal to some dealers when they havent done crap for you.

Anyway, a stem breaking without a collision is a serious issue, and should be taken very seriously by a manufacturer that cares about his craftsmanship and quality.

If he has no desire to investigate, that says alot. Thanks for informing us of Rath's total non-concern of a possibly faulty product they sold and made non faulty money off of.:D :devil:

cody anderson

11-07-2003, 07:11 AM

I find that when I get in a fight with a girl, I suggest we just get naked... Not sure if that would work in this situation though...:confused:

Insider

11-07-2003, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by cody anderson
Not sure

not sure:confused: i didnt know you were BI. whatever floats your boat.

pnut420

11-07-2003, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by cody anderson
I find that when I get in a fight with a girl, I suggest we just get naked... Not sure if that would work in this situation though...:confused:

I think an apology would help. When you are sponsored by companies, you should act more responsible than you did . You pretty much were trying to call him stupid for not taking that POS $185 stem he was offered. We are just sick of all these biased opinions, I know you are sponsored. but like someone else stated just stay out of this one......

cody anderson

11-07-2003, 09:25 AM

I think that you are the only person that understands my defense... I have decided that... I really don't care anymore just because I don't really need people thnking that I am a d-head you know. Becasue I'm really not. If any of you guys have met me before you know that. So, with that said... Good luck with that stem bro! Sorry it happened but, I guess I don't really know what to say. I looked at the stem last night and... Its definetly f'ed up. But as far as a carbon deposit on it... I did't see anything, or anythng wrong with the structure. I don't what happened, and like I said before... I don't care anymore either. All I know is that everything that he has ever made for me has worked awsome! And the reason why I got so defensive is because it got to the point where for me it wasen't even about the stem or the warrenty it was the personal attacks. Thats all.

This can be found on page 4...

cody anderson

11-07-2003, 09:26 AM

I treat my sponsors like my best friend, I will defend them!

TheChknhwk

11-07-2003, 10:59 AM

I think this sums it up for a lot of us that read this... I need a steering stem and it won't be from Rath.

Jnine

11-07-2003, 07:19 PM

Back up fellas! The statement below about costs is completely a myth.

"I know that cromoly steel is expensive but i think that daryl has alot less than $185 in that stem. He!! he could have offered it to him at materal cost and ate the labor since he didn't do the job right the first time."

The other aftermarket guys hate me admitting stuff like this, and it usually generates a few ugly calls from some of them when I let this stuff out, but let me tell you what that stem main tube costs. Hold on to your shorts boys... $4.50 MAX! Yes I get good pricing because I buy a LOT of it, but material cost is very little in the cost of the goods. The big cost is manufacturing. Be more efficient and bring costs down. At Cannondale virtually every known stem on the market was tested, cut apart and looked at, and I have my ideas on what happened in this case. I'll tell you this... There are several grades of materials to consider, but I have not seen a "carbon deposit" in high level seamless tubing, and we weld MILES of it.

Jnine

11-07-2003, 07:19 PM

86atc250r

11-07-2003, 09:36 PM

I treat my sponsors like my best friend, I will defend them!

Cody, your "defense" did not do Rath any favors in this thread....

A level of professionalism would have made a world of difference in the direction this thread went.

quadracer12

11-08-2003, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Jnine
Back up fellas! The statement below about costs is completely a myth.

"I know that cromoly steel is expensive but i think that daryl has alot less than $185 in that stem. He!! he could have offered it to him at materal cost and ate the labor since he didn't do the job right the first time."

The other aftermarket guys hate me admitting stuff like this, and it usually generates a few ugly calls from some of them when I let this stuff out, but let me tell you what that stem main tube costs. Hold on to your shorts boys... $4.50 MAX! Yes I get good pricing because I buy a LOT of it, but material cost is very little in the cost of the goods. The big cost is manufacturing. Be more efficient and bring costs down. At Cannondale virtually every known stem on the market was tested, cut apart and looked at, and I have my ideas on what happened in this case. I'll tell you this... There are several grades of materials to consider, but I have not seen a "carbon deposit" in high level seamless tubing, and we weld MILES of it.

so what your saying is that if he replaced it for dealer cost he is still making a ton on money off the stem? at least thats what i read into in

Jnine

11-08-2003, 07:44 PM

That would be a fair statement.

A 4130 Chromoly stem with no clamps for $185? How many do you want? I'll make that offer anytime! He*l, I'll even include shipping.

JA

Guy400

11-09-2003, 05:19 AM

"The truth shall set you free."

Thank you for your honesty, John.

thomas

11-09-2003, 08:34 AM

Let's call Judge Judy!!!!! She'll fix you all!!

Sorry, but I called Rath on a small deal. Building my KTM that is, about $12'000 worth of parts!!! He gave me the runaround sooo bad, lets just say I called ECA and I have bike now. I called Rath and said, sorry but ECA is building it, and he wished me good luck. I guess he's not in the buisness of making money?!?!?!

GIVE THE KID A NEW STEM!!!!
Beauty fades, stupid does not. J.J.

Woodsrider

11-09-2003, 09:25 AM

I just found this thread after being out of town all of last week. I read the whole thing, all six pages of it. I am absolutly amazed that Mr. Rath has not had a single word to say yet. Reguardless of wether the stem was defective, which there is a fair chance of, one stem in the grand scheme of things would have done better for his long term business.

The first rule in business is that the customer is alway right.
So what if it cost you(Mr. Rath) a few dollars to replace one stem out of 1000 sold. how much would you lose? I cant say. But I can say that by not replacing it you have lost a great many sales by letting so many riders see this thread get this long and not saying a damn thing in your own defense. Shame on you!

I see this thread as a testament to the saying that "A happy customer tells a freind. An angry customer will tell everyone he knows."

Lets say fifty(a very conservative number) people read this thread and decide to buy stems from other companies and not yours. At $300 a stem thats $4500 in lost sales. Or you could have replaced (for a loss of $50 at most)the stem and had him come on all the forums and praise your service and gained more customers.

Mr. Rath, you have walked past a dollar to pick up a dime.

Ben Bettis

11-09-2003, 10:07 AM

Soggyrider-Rath did reply maybe you should check to rest of the threads regarding this!

Below is the email that was sent to Derek regarding his stem-

Derek,
I just finished taking Derek Guetter's YFZ450 apart he did freestyle with
it in the 12 Hours of America Race and crashed hitting a tree, he also
crashed during freestyle. I noticed on his stem the splines had twisted in a
very similar fashion as yours had. His did not break there but his stem was
bent . I will disagree with you about the fact the stem is faulty, I will
agree with you that you purchased an aftermarket stem to withhold harder
then usual riding.

I replaced Dereks and I feel it would be fair to replace yours also.

I would also like you to know that I would have been happier to help you if
your father would not have called me and accussed me of making ****,
swearing and threaten me. It makes it really hard to deal with people like
that upset or not.

During our conversation I stated we redesigned the stems. We used to drill
and tap the bottom of the stem and put a bolt into it. We are now building
them with a stud like the stock one so you can use stock hardware, it is
solid inside there now. The design was changed to that design because it is
easier to use stock hardware and the guys can cotter pin them also. The
design did not change because of a flaw, I have been building the stems the
same way since 1997.

I do have the new stems done in the shop and if you would like to get past
this and back to racing I will send you a stem free of charge.

Daryl Rath
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fisher, Derek (GEP, Contractor)" <Derek.Fisher@gepex.ge.com>
To: <rath@hutchtel.net>
Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 1:34 PM

Dear Mr. Rath,
I sent you a broken steering stem back, and you were unable to replace, what
I consider to be a either a defect in the metal or a defect in the
craftsmanship. While I am not as concerned with the money I am out as
much as the fact that you didn't stand behind your product, I did post what
had happened on several of the forums of which I am a member. As you know
the racer community is close and we depend on each other to know what works
and what doesn't. I am an honest person and I was upfront with you about
the stem. You seemed to think that I was being dishonest and that I had hit
something very hard. The fact of the matter is, I didn't and that is why I
was disappointed to see that you didn't stand behind your products. If I
had smoked a tree or something, then I would have expected a bent tie rod
and maybe a twist in the stem. I have put some links to a few of the forums
to which I posted, in case you are interested. I have no hard feelings
against your company or your products. As I mentioned in my post, I believe
I just got a defective stem. No matter how tight quality control is, some
things just can't be detected.

http://www.bluetraxx.com/phpBB/view...p=281246#281246

http://www.exriders.com/vbb/showthr...&threadid=79069

Regards,
Derek Fisher

Woodsrider

11-09-2003, 10:43 AM

Originally posted by Ben Bettis
Soggyrider-Rath did reply maybe you should check to rest of the threads regarding this!

Mr. Bettis, at the time I wrote that there were no other treads on this forum regarding this. And I don't visit the Blutrax forum. You posted the other thread here well after I posted that comment.

Its a shame that it had to come to what it did.

Ben Bettis

11-09-2003, 02:26 PM

Actually that other thread was started yesterday, a day before you posted..check the date.

Dave400ex

11-09-2003, 02:37 PM

Soggy does have a great point about loosing some money on one stem, or loosing hundreds, or may be even thousands after guys reading this post.

Rath finally stepped up and said he will replace it, but I think it was a little late. Hopefully everything is worked out now.

Woodsrider

11-09-2003, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Ben Bettis
Actually that other thread was started yesterday, a day before you posted..check the date.

:o My bad, I guess I shopuld have looked a little closer. But at least I'll admit it;)

ATVer14

11-10-2003, 03:19 PM

THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT

Words to live by if you ever want to make any money in the business world. After reading all seven pages here, add me to the list titled LOST CUSTOMERS. People have to remember that this is no longer a one-business sport anymore, competition is fierce in the aftermarket segment and when you don't please the customers, they have plenty of other options to go to next time. And in the internet age, word travels like wildfire, so you better make it a good word they're spreading.

rap169

11-11-2003, 10:17 PM

im just curious, but how exactly do u break or bend a steering stem? Ive somwhere along the line have broken just about every part on my quad, axle, a-arm, spindle, tie rod, frame, bumpers, but how do u break a stem? I just cant picture the stem taking a direct hit

airheadedduner

11-11-2003, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by rap169
im just curious, but how exactly do u break or bend a steering stem? Ive somwhere along the line have broken just about every part on my quad, axle, a-arm, spindle, tie rod, frame, bumpers, but how do u break a stem? I just cant picture the stem taking a direct hit
If a front tire took a direct hit and whipped the stem into the stops it can bend or break it. A roll or cartwheel could do the same damage. He didn't seem to break anything else, thats why I believe he didn't hit anything.

TORO1968

11-12-2003, 07:03 PM

After being out of town for the past several days and getting back on here to read this thread greatly disappoints me... As several of the other members stated, it all comes down to this simple statement, "The customer is always right." I am a process engineer for the largest privately owned company in the world, and deal with multiple suppliers on a daily basis. Recently, I purchased a $5000 mass air flow meter which, when first installed, worked fine. A few days after continuous 24 hour a day operation, it stopped providing the proper reading based on my calculations. Being rather upset with our new product, I called the manufacturer immediately. Upon talking with them, they told me to ship it back to them at their cost, and that everything would be taken care of. A few weeks later, we received the flow meter back, installed it and noticed that the calibration seemed off by a factor of three or so. This was disappointing, since we had just sent the product out to get fixed. One phone call later and a factory representative was on the way to our facility, several hours away from his office. After some programming changes, the calibration issue was taken care of and the flow meter began to work properly. I thought I was dealing with a quality company, especially based on the prior research I had conducted, but ended up with a faulty product. And what did the manufacturer do? They stood behind their product. And when I had calibration issues (which made me kind of mad), what did the manufacturer do? They stood behind their product again by sending someone to our plant right away and made everything okay. Note: They could have told me that this was my problem since it was an integrator programming issue, but they did not. Not once was my honesty or knowledge questioned by the manufacturer. They respected me as a professional and knew that if I was likely to remain a repeat customer of theirs, they should to make things right at their cost. I am now very satisfied with this product, and will not hesitate to purchase other products from them for other capital projects I may manage.

I know this post is long, but profits all come down to customer service... I hate to say it, but Mr. Rath (whom I thought I had a lot of respect for as a racer and supplier) should have handled this situation differently. Whether Derek wrecked his quad or not should not be an issue if there appeared to be a manufacturing defect in the raw material the stem was manufactured with. Even if the defect was questionable, the product should have been exchanged. Look at Sears Roebuck and Co. Their products have an UNCONDITIONAL lifetime warranty, which I feel is a bit extreme; but anyway, they stand behind their product, even if it has been abused. Why, you may ask? Because they know it has allowed them to develop one of the largest repeat customer bases in the U.S. And this my friends equals PROFITS. As someone else mentioned above, long-term gains don't come from short-term profits, but from consistent, albiet smaller gains over time.

The way this situation was handled, even if Derek's father was quite frank with Mr. Rath, was not proper. Mr. Rath, your final decision to replace the stem was too little, too late. I think you realized how large of an impact this incident is going to have on your profits, so you figured you better try and make things all better. It seems to me that profits are all you are interested in. Yes, money does make the world go 'round, but if no one is on the other end of a phone or computer to purchase your products because of one small customer service issue, where will that money come from? No where, and that is why, in the long run, companies who respect their customers and truly stand behind their products will be light-years ahead of you.

I am disappointed to have to put up a post such as this, but I wanted to state my opinion, especially when I can relate to it so well. It's not often that you'll see me get into such a discussion on this board, but this time it was necessary.

Mr. Anderson, I understand that you feel it is your duty to stand behind your sponsor, but you mean to tell all of us that this situation was handled the best it could be? I stand behind my employer, but if something isn't right, I will do everything in my power to make it so. Even if it does put some things in jeopardy.

I was at one time interested in Rath Racing's products; however, I no longer intend to ever spend a dime with your company. I will inform all of my riding group of this post and will let them take from it what they feel is the truth. I will not tell others that your products are junk, because they probably aren't, and I'm not in a position to attest that they are. However, based on this rather long thread and your associate's responses, it is clear that your company has some customer service issues that should be dealt with in short order if you ever intend to be a major player in the ATV aftermarket.

Derek, if you have any pictures of the stem that failed, I would like to see them. I have quite a bit of experience in conducting failure mode analyses, especially with material defects. So, I may be able to provide some insight as to what caused your stem to break the way it did. PM me if you don't want to post the pictures up here.

I encourage all of you that have opinions on this subject to post them up. It is important to let manufacturers and fellow riders know of such situations. The better informed all of us are, the better we all are in the long run.

Sorry for the long post...just wanted to express my thoughts! :D

Sincerely,

Jordan Panich