12 Hours of ATV America Race Coverage PART2 [Archive]

Geoff Casper

10-28-2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by cinigen9
Any info on why Team MOR was disqualified? They seemed to be running strong in the beginning.

What I heard was 3 no name country boys from Missouri that only
run local races in their state came prepared to kick some butt.And
that's exactly what happened.Only problem was everyone protested because they were getting beat and there was'nt a
real referee in sight.so what's the easiest thing to do when everyone cries because their gettin spanked?You got it.go with what the mob sayes is fair.Too bad to cause they finished 2nd
in th a class and i think it was 7th or 8th overall.I'm sure they'll be back next year.If nothing else to prove a point.That is if everyone dos'nt cry again next year.

10-28-2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Geoff Casper
What I heard was 3 no name country boys from Missouri that only
run local races in their state came prepared to kick some butt.And
that's exactly what happened.Only problem was everyone protested because they were getting beat and there was'nt a
real referee in sight.so what's the easiest thing to do when everyone cries because their gettin spanked?You got it.go with what the mob sayes is fair.Too bad to cause they finished 2nd
in th a class and i think it was 7th or 8th overall.I'm sure they'll be back next year.If nothing else to prove a point.That is if everyone dos'nt cry again next year.

What rules did they break to get DQ'd. :confused: :confused:

Pappy

10-28-2003, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Rico
What rules did they break to get DQ'd. :confused: :confused:

ditto...out with it:cool:

sparky450AR

10-28-2003, 02:32 PM

Looks like you guys had a blast! I know i did....i was in WV HM. We finally got around to that new hillclimb, that hill is flat amazing!...My friend totalled his 250R though...it really sucked broke his wrist and collaar bone.....i went back with search and rescue after they took him to the hospital....his quad went off a mountain...it was about 200ft down

cdalejef

10-28-2003, 02:34 PM

Yikes.....thats not good!

cinigen9

10-28-2003, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Rico
What rules did they break to get DQ'd. :confused: :confused:

from what I have picked up they were dq'd for not running a fast enough class. Tough position to put the refs in. Sounds like they should have just ran pro or atleast A from the beginning! There is additional info at the ******** forums.

propartsracing

10-28-2003, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by cinigen9
from what I have picked up they were dq'd for not running a fast enough class. Tough position to put the refs in. Sounds like they should have just ran pro or atleast A from the beginning! There is additional info at the ******** forums.

They did run A from what it says on ********. They can't run the PRO class if there isn't 1 racer who is an established PRO on the team from a GNC, GNCC or comparable series... not sure what the problem was, to me, it would seem that they were in the right class.

Trish

PS... congrats to our team members for 1st Overall... Borich, Krachun & Smiley!

quadnice

10-28-2003, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by cinigen9
Any info on why Team MOR was disqualified? They seemed to be running strong in the beginning.
From what I "heard" these Missouri boys who only ran local MO. events were ALL - AA riders in the MO. H.S. series. According to 1 source they signed up for the B class, unleashed a full 6 pack of Whoop Arse & thought it would be alright to just pay the extra $100 & move up to A-class during the break. At the beginning I recall hearing them running strong in the PRO class, like 7th or 8th OVERALL!!!
Sanbagging SUCKS!!!
If your A riders, sign up for A
AA (expert class) run pro

jhs

10-28-2003, 04:24 PM

Yea I heard that 2 of the 3 were former pros or something. They got moved up to the A class

joedirt

10-28-2003, 05:13 PM

CHERRY PICKING DOESN'T MAKE YOU A BETTER RACER. GOOD JOB, REFS. TO MAKE SUCH A BALLSY CALL.

Geoff Casper

10-28-2003, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by joedirt
CHERRY PICKING DOESN'T MAKE YOU A BETTER RACER. GOOD JOB, REFS. TO MAKE SUCH A BALLSY CALL.

These guys are from my town and to clarify what went on was first of all 1 rider (Josh) is a b rider in mo.hare scramble.Matt is an
A rider in Mo.hare scramble.and Kile is 17 years old and runs AA
in Mo,hare scramble.none of these guys run any national events.the rules state that if you run pro at gnc or gncc or works series that you must run pro at 12 hr.and if you run A at these events you run A at 12hr.and so on.The problem was they were 1 of the first people to send in entry and were checked out and excepted by committee.Because they were doing so well with no breakdowns people were unhappy because they were getting beat.they were asked at 6 hr break to move to A class to be more fair.they said they did'nt care they just wanted to ride.As luck would have it they started smokin A riders.Then the unhappyness fell on A riders.These guys are far from pro nor have ever been pro.If people want to get technical check out winners in B class from 12hr and you will find out they run pro class in there local hare scramble series also.and are leading it.

Pappy

10-28-2003, 05:52 PM

if they followed the rules...then what gives:confused:

bartlettracing

10-28-2003, 06:11 PM

duh they didnt folow the rules !!!they enterd B class ... a +aa +b dont = b now does it !!!!!! there was a ton of sandbagging going on !! problem lie's in honesty ... some have it some dont !!! nice to see the boy's at the quad shop had it !!! good job guy's
:eek:

Pappy

10-28-2003, 06:22 PM

seems to me if they pre registered....and didnt hide thier local class designation then who is to blame? i agree that if they run A or AA local then they should have signed up for A in this race.

86atc250r

10-28-2003, 06:31 PM

Ryan

10-28-2003, 06:40 PM

I found this at ********.com in the "12 hours of America" Forum....

timberwolf
Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:33 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As a father of one of the crew members of the MOR team, let me clarify the facts.
The facts of the matter are that the committee and a group of weak crybaby riders were able to disqualify the team without any bases at all. The only reason for disqualifying the team was to make the weaker riders happy. This is a direct quote of a committee member, "we make 17 teams happy or we make one team happy". Contrary to anyone's opinion team MOR did not break or bend any rules. The man in charge of putting the race together agreed that the team MOR broke no rules. The rules state that no rider entering in a non - pro division could be classified as a pro. No member of team MOR has ever ran in a pro class as stated by the rules, that being GNCC, GNC, WORKS, or any other major event. One team member ran in a local series as an AA or Pro division if you wish, but the other two members run in an A class and a B class and this local series is not or never has been considered a major series. This year in Tennessee, the one team member that everyone is saying is a pro just because he runs fast, was not allowed to run in the pro class with GNCC because, as they stated, he has not proven himself to be a pro rider. The members had no more knowledge then any other team of what caliber of riders they were going to be up against in this race. It is a poor state of affairs when hard long work and preparation pays off with the weaker riders forcing disqualification simply because their competition is faster then they are. This race series, committee, and all who were involved with the disqualification of team MOR are of low morals, uneducated, unscrupulous and most of all a disgrace to humankind and the American people.

Admin

10-28-2003, 06:41 PM

I think the Team MOR issue should be taken up with the Promoter by all parties concerned.

jhs

10-28-2003, 06:58 PM

ryan dont put it on the a class riders it wasn't our decision. nobody asked our team anything?? they got a good start and were ahead early, big deal good for them. we 4play racing didn't care and if your going to badmouth everyone you SHOULD take it up with the promoter it was theres and the refs decision not ours

mo.lakota

10-29-2003, 05:31 AM

Team MOR , Wasnt there but I do know these Guys have only been in a few small non-sanctioned races in their home state , not GNCC , GNC or WORCS as some have it in their mind . As for Sandbagging I wont believe that either . Knowing Josh for the last 12 years has proven to me that if anything he is a stand up type of Guy . If Josh had been told his team needed to bump up to A class then he would have done it to start with . None of these Guys are Pros by the Rule books but they are of Pro riding ability and Personality if you really know them . I have never heard them badmouth about this even though they are obviously upset and I think the worst is that now they feel like People are questoining their Integrity when that was not the Issue . Like I said if they would have thought or have been told to race in A they would have . These Guys will run in any class just to get a chance to race . They really are some great Guys who got in a mess that now makes then look like they were pulling a fast one which is not the case .

As for the Judges people should not be calling them names because that isnt cool .
But their decision sort of reminds me of the movies where Team MOR is the good guy / underdog and the Judge is the Bad Guy type holding a Gun and telling Team MOR yes you can fight me and win but I am going to have you killed if you win .

Folks misunderstandings happen and I think thats what Happened in this case .

The Judges should have Honored what they allowed in the first place , then to allow them to bump up a class and then after they do good in that class still renig on their decision and DQ them was wrong . Either you make a decision or you dont but once you make a deal you should stick with it .
Maybe they do things different up there ?
as far as who is being Honest what about the Judges telling a team sure we take your Money . let you tear up your 10.000 quad and risk injury then AFTER you do GOOD we go back on our WORD . That is just wrong in any persons Opinion . Its called Lieing in Missouri .
Got to Go I am getting angry and I dont like the feeling . This isnt my Fight but I know these Boys and I dont like folks accusing them of being the very things the Judges were Liars .

86atc250r

10-29-2003, 08:34 AM

Vtr_Racing--

I think you've got my response confused with Team MOR.

My team was White River Racing. I've been studying, working, and testing since this time last year on my headlight system. As I said in my post before, we went from a best of 21st overall in the daylight to 15th overall at night.

FWIW, I've posted full results including laptimes on one of my websites - http://www.xcracing.com/trackside/12hrs/

Pappy

10-29-2003, 08:38 AM

im moving all the MOR stuff in here as not to ruin the actual racing thread

Pappy

10-29-2003, 09:46 AM

***posted by vtr_racing:

Great coverage of the 12hours. I loved reading this thread. We have been covering racing similarly to this in the desert for a while now. If you need some info on getting setup with live "asit happens" updates. Send me a PM, it can be done.
The MOR Racing story is very interesting. I wasnt there and I only know what I am reading on line. The lap times will really tell the story and it will be interesting to crunch those numbers. Sounds to me, and I am not taking sides either way, they, MOR, did their homework. They did some research and picked their poison, night racing. Sounds like a great strategy to me. Apparently it worked too. Coming from a desert racing background, racing at nihght was a way for us to make up time, we practiced racing at night just for that. Invested some good money in some bad #$@ lights and night turned into day, Will see how this turns out.....Once again, Great coverage by all.....
Marc
Vtr Racing

Doibugu2

10-29-2003, 09:48 AM

Is there money involved for the A and B classes?

86atc250r

10-29-2003, 09:49 AM

Yes in the "A"

No in the "B"

lshonda310

10-29-2003, 09:57 AM

Troy Racing team got $900 for winning the A class, good job Steph, Adam and Brent on your 5th place overall

Doibugu2

10-29-2003, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by 86atc250r
Yes in the "A"

No in the "B"

So if they are is good as they were why would you want to sandbag? That doesn't make any sense. Obviously they didn't know how they were going to finish, but if they thought they had any chance to do well in A, and make some money to boot, why wouldn't they just run A/

Almost sounds to me that they just didn't know how there abilities stacked up against all the competition there and they thought to themselves, hey all these big dawgs are coming to race and I doubt we can hang in the normal A class. So we should then run B and be competitive.

86atc250r

10-29-2003, 10:30 AM

400EX Stud

10-29-2003, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by bartlettracing
duh they didnt folow the rules !!!they enterd B class ... a +aa +b dont = b now does it !!!!!! there was a ton of sandbagging going on !! problem lie's in honesty ... some have it some dont !!! nice to see the boy's at the quad shop had it !!! good job guy's
:eek:
These boys knew exactly what they were doing SANDBAGGIN

bartlettracing

10-29-2003, 06:23 PM

We"ll to change the subjet we also protested somthing we saw . we noticed that a track offical was helping the girls team.he came into the pit's and told them that she broke and what she broke ...then she arrived and he helped work on the repair . that upset me ! so we watched more and noticed he would follow them ! sorry but that's cheating ... hear is a pic of him following her .

He did come to our pit and pead his case : said he wanted to be in the pit but they needed more help on the track .

in my eyes it's one or the other ...

no big deal just thought I would share http://www.bartlettracing.extremegarage.com/custom2.html

bartlettracing

10-29-2003, 06:25 PM

ok im not sure how to post pic's click for pic (http://www.bartlettracing.extremegarage.com/custom2.html)

andrea

10-29-2003, 08:01 PM

Troy Racing Team earned the $900 they made their pitcrew was there just to be support and watch them bring it home . Great job guys and girl!!!Do it again next year and we will drive 600 hundred miles to donate our time to your team any day !!!!! I was well worth it !

indygncc

10-29-2003, 08:11 PM

LSHonda 310 and Andrea---- Is the Snapper Racing Team going to make a showing next year @ the 12 hour race?

465Stroker

10-30-2003, 04:04 AM

Originally posted by bartlettracing
We"ll to change the subjet we also protested somthing we saw . we noticed that a track offical was helping the girls team.he came into the pit's and told them that she broke and what she broke ...then she arrived and he helped work on the repair . that upset me ! so we watched more and noticed he would follow them ! sorry but that's cheating ... hear is a pic of him following her .

He did come to our pit and pead his case : said he wanted to be in the pit but they needed more help on the track .

in my eyes it's one or the other ...

no big deal just thought I would share http://www.bartlettracing.extremegarage.com/custom2.html

Now for the rest of the story.
Joe Byrd did attend the race to be only help in the pits but was asked to help film the race (there was a helmet cam mounted under his visor) and to also as a track official to check on the status of the track and teams that were being reported for cutting track or cheating. The picture you see him in he was filming the race action.
As for Joe coming back to the pits and helping when we broke - your right he did - he saw Traci being towed and made a b-line to our pits to help and let us know what broke which was what he was originally there for. Is this any different than teams that had walky-talkies on the track reporting back? Joe was trying to do the best he could to get race action of the Alba Action Girls in action for the film crew that I am sure you saw there taping at every pit stop.

Also - Great job Troy Racing!

cdalejef

10-30-2003, 06:48 AM

Read your program...it shows Joe Byrd as their mechanic!

indygncc

10-30-2003, 07:03 AM

Thanks Rick

10-30-2003, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by 465Stroker
Now for the rest of the story.
Joe Byrd did attend the race to be only help in the pits but was asked to help film the race (there was a helmet cam mounted under his visor) and to also as a track official to check on the status of the track and teams that were being reported for cutting track or cheating. The picture you see him in he was filming the race action.
As for Joe coming back to the pits and helping when we broke - your right he did - he saw Traci being towed and made a b-line to our pits to help and let us know what broke which was what he was originally there for. Is this any different than teams that had walky-talkies on the track reporting back? Joe was trying to do the best he could to get race action of the Alba Action Girls in action for the film crew that I am sure you saw there taping at every pit stop.

Also - Great job Troy Racing!

And the truth comes out....:o Doesn't sound like any cheating goin on to me..:confused:

bartlettracing

10-30-2003, 07:47 AM

I know I didnt have the whole story but it still sit's wrong with me

this bothers me because it can be taken many ways.

If he has a camera under his visor please post the video.

I have video of him in the pit's working with there team and cant seem to see any camera in or on his helmet ?

truthfully it dont matter,it's over . just sit's wrong
Ive met joe before and the girls and there great people. noithing personal ment by this only a consern .

My Team will be back next year to try again. Thanks everyone for a great time . I'll let it die ... :D

10-30-2003, 08:07 AM

I"ve rode with someone that had a helmet cam and with heavy clothes on that you guys had to wear because of the weather,,you'd never know they had a camera on I'm sure. They are small and compact. The recording device itself can fit in a small fanny pack. Camera itself could fit in a cigarette pack..

Pappy

10-30-2003, 08:12 AM

i think rider to pit crew communication should be allowed next year in the gncc's and the 12 hour race. i sure as heck would like to know the status on my rider and any problems with the quad.

465Stroker

10-30-2003, 08:12 AM

Originally posted by bartlettracing
that is fine next year I will have a quad set up for my CAMERA MAN to follow my team around.

if he was listed as a pit crew he needs to stay a pit crew ! pit crews cant ride there quads around the track can they ??

this bothers me because it can be taken many ways.

If he has a camera under his visor please post the video.

I have video of him in the pit's working with there team and cant seem to see any camera in or on his helmet ?

truthfully it dont matter,it's over . just sit's wrong

I can already tell that no matter what is explained to you that you already have your mind made up as to what is right and wrong. I also viewed your actions of you screaming at the girls when the whole affair was going on which was very disturbing - which tells me that your just wrong..

Fact is that the Alba Actions Girls was a very high profile team that was being filmed through out the whole race which is great for promoting our sport and the 12 Hour Race. Because of the Actions Girls your team may be on TV if they were racing together - your welcome.

jcsact

10-30-2003, 08:22 AM

bartlett,
He is using Powermadd Handguards though. :D

Admin

10-30-2003, 08:29 AM

Joe Bryd came to the race to pit for the Alba Action Girls and support his wife. The race promoters asked him wear a helmet cam and ride the track and record the footage because the original person who was scheduled to do it wasn't able to.

The helmet cam footage was for the event and will eventually be available to view on ********.com. I also assume that it will be used for race coverage on television.

I can understand Bartlett racing being upset especially if they didn't know all the facts. I do agree that next year, the race promoter should not utilize a team pit crew member as a camera man because it will only lead to problems.

Each year this event gets better organized, and I expect that next year the Sandbagging issue will be better controlled. Also, I don't forsee the webcam to be worn by a team pitcrew member.

quadman21

10-30-2003, 09:05 AM

I was really pupmed up whatching the posts come in about this race. I was even trying to figure out costs and pwople to call to get a team together to go out to next years race. But the more I read on through the threads it seems like everyone is protesting someone else. Now I'b be afraid of showing up and being protested for something silly and DQ'd. It wouldn't be a fun trip then:( .

Pappy

10-30-2003, 09:07 AM

Originally posted by quadman21
I was really pupmed up whatching the posts come in about this race. I was even trying to figure out costs and pwople to call to get a team together to go out to next years race. But the more I read on through the threads it seems like everyone is protesting someone else. Now I'b be afraid of showing up and being protested for something silly and DQ'd. It wouldn't be a fun trip then:( .

just take a few cases of tissues for any crybabies ya run into...

10-30-2003, 09:09 AM

Originally posted by Pappy
just take a few cases of tissues for any crybabies ya run into...

http://ricoracing.netfirms.com/images/11doh.gif

quadman21

10-30-2003, 09:27 AM

I guess the saying "there's one in every crowd" would apply here? I have only protested once in all my years of racing. Years ago we had some guys pitted beside us. Half way through our race my wife saw them switch riders. But oh well, what goes around comes around. Let's all just get along and have fun:D

indygncc

10-30-2003, 09:35 AM

Very well said Rick!
Bartlett accused Troy Racing of sandbagging over on atvconnection. Last time I checked I race 4 stroke stockin the GNCC, which is not even considered an "A" class!

bartlettracing

10-30-2003, 12:37 PM

I said you sandbagged ???? please post were I said troy racing was sandbagging ?

86atc250r

10-30-2003, 12:41 PM

Who else would you have been talking about but the top A and B teams?

Certainly no one could have been "sandbagging" the Pro, Industry, or Utility classes....

bartlettracing

10-30-2003, 12:43 PM

I also viewed your actions of you screaming at the girls when the whole affair was going on which was very disturbing - which tells me that your just wrong..

Listen mr . stroker

I never once yelled any thing ! period!

my words were EXSACTLY : (hey) He cant be working on there quad !
thats Every word said : then we went to the ref : end of story

cdalejef

10-30-2003, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by bartlettracing
I also viewed your actions of you screaming at the girls when the whole affair was going on which was very disturbing - which tells me that your just wrong..

Listen mr . stroker

I never once yelled any thing ! period!

my words were EXSACTLY : (hey) He cant be working on there quad !
thats Every word said : then we went to the ref : end of story Like I said before, he is listed in the program as their mechanic along with Rick and Scott. The film crew was in their pits the whole day as well as filming by the helmet cam.

bartlettracing

10-30-2003, 01:11 PM

hey everybody chill !!!! Im with ya ,like I said we saw we reacted ....We did not have the whole story !!! we do now . it's ok ,im fine with it ....... as I told byrd if the ref says it's ok ,then go with it ! he said it was ok ,se we kept on a racing ... :D let's be happy and have a beer .... im not into fighting .... >>>heads to firdge

Pappy

10-30-2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by EXriders Admin
I expect that next year the Sandbagging issue will be better controlled.

yeah from the sounds of it ...there will be an A & B sandbagger class:p

lshonda310

10-30-2003, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Pappy
yeah from the sounds of it ...there will be an A & B sandbagger class:p

will that be a combined class or seperated?

Pappy

10-30-2003, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by lshonda310
will that be a combined class or seperated?

seperated....lmfao id say combine it but someone already pm'd me and said there would be allegations of sandbagging in the registration line:eek2: :devil:

Fast 51

11-03-2003, 05:04 PM

We,Team MOR, first and foremost want to thank John Pellan,Brian Shipley,and Bob Fleege for putting together the most exciting and action packed event that we have ever attended.We sincerely hope that our incident and all of the publicity that it has received does not take away from what an incredible event that this truely is.

We also hope that everyone else can understand that we never expected to be so competative.Had we known how well we would of ended up,we definately would of entered a class that paid money instead of plaques.

We don't see any need in further discusion on this topic,what's done is done.If anyone is reading this,that has never attended this event,we strongly encourage you to do so.Hope we can make it back next year,(better start rolling our change now).

Team MOR
Matt Ryberg
Kyle Martin
Josh Owens

We also want to thank everyone that helped us out.
Central Cycle of West Plains,MO
Dirtworks Motorsports
Racing quads.com
Houser Racing
Rocky Ridge