powdercoating a-arms question

I have read on here that the a-arms are/are not rebuildable and that the heat ruins the seal and bakes out the grease. Questions is what have all the other people who have had powdercoating done to avoid/fix this problem. My stuff is at the painter now so any info would be appreciated so I can get the fix as soon as I get the stuff back or stop him before something is ruined for good.
Thanks for the help.

[Scott]

My friends have powdercoated several sets of a-arm and have not had problems. The rubber boot can withstand the heat for the short amount of time it takes to bake the powdercoat on. No leaks or deformed boots yet...

[mysticfalcon]

Are you sure cause in thread in the clasifieds about powdercoating it says that it will bake the greese out. I have a powdercoater and havent done them because i cant aford to screw up my a arms

[Scott]

They tried it on an old bent junker first and it worked, so the two of them did the a-arms off my cousins 400 in black and then my friends 400 in Honda red. Both quads have been reassembled and ridden since then. Neither one has had a problem yet. I think Matt said he had them at like 350 or 400F for about 20 mins.
I can check with him if you'd like.

[beerock]

powdercoating involves putting the a-arms in a oven for 15 minutes at 400 degrees.

If the ball joints are not worn out yet, then thats great. maybe hes using less heat to compensate.

but, the plastic inserts will become brittle after high heat.They could possibly break down, resulting in the ball joint popping out.
I never said anything about the grease being baked out, thats no problem a zerk fitting couldnt fix on the top of the ball joints.

I dont think you would want to risk your ball joints popping out.

I LEARNED THIS THE HARDWAY

I did what some of you have done with your arms, and my ball joint popped out going over whoops. NOT FUN

If you want your a-arms powdercoated, I have a hop up for stock length 400ex a-arms which will give you about .25" to a .5" wider a-arms, Fresh powdercoat,replaceable ball joints and adjustable camber! for $250

[Scott]

So you're cutting them and using VW tie rod ends and jam nuts for the ball joints, huh?

[beerock]

nope

Sorry I said painter but I am having them powdercoated, in fact the guy called and I went and picked them up. The grease did bake out of one of them and the boot deformed a little so I'm off to the Honda shop to talk with the mechanic and see what my options are. If anyone has any opinions or fixes please let me know. Thanks.

[Scott]

Sure sounds like the VW trick.


New question. If the rubber dust boots are replaceable, why not just do the powdercoat and replace them. You could add grease while you were at it?

I've always been under the impression regarding chroming and powdercoating that what your having done needs to be bare,,no bushings, seals, rubber pieces, plastic pieces,,etc, etc,,just the metal part and thats it,,,I don't think I'd trust leaving all the stuff in there.

[Scott]

I know they removed the bushings/bearings at the frame mounts, but the ball joint was left intact. I'll check with them again and see how they're holding up.

[beerock]

There is a PLASTIC insert inside the ball joint.

im not talking about the rubber boot.

I would never powdercoat a a-arm with the rubber boot on?

sounds like that guy isnt so sharp.

400freak, I did let you know of a fix.

If you want your a-arms powdercoated, I have a hop up for stock length 400ex a-arms which will give you about .25" to a .5" wider a-arms, Fresh powdercoat,replaceable ball joints and adjustable camber! for $250

You can cut the a-arms your self, but we cut each a-arm the exact same. The mating surface is perfectly flat too.

this may sound easy but it took us 7 arms to get the process down right.

If you want to be cheap you can try yourself, and if you screw up on any of the 4 a-arms then, you ll be paying alot more than $250

Chris I didn't check the boards for other peoples mistakes before taking it to the guy, my mistake and unfortunately for me I will be paying for it.


beerock thanks for the info, if I go that route I will be in touch it sure sounds like a good fix. Spending money isn't a problem I just want to know all my options before I make any more mistakes.

Thanks Beerock for your information.

I'm not aware of any plastic part in the ball joint.

I to powder coated my stock a-arms. For my used 300ex a-arms, I put them through a "Wheelabrator" operation. This operation removed all the old paint off and preped it for powder coat. For my new 400ex a-arms, I did a light sanding to "scuff" and remove some of the paint prior to powder coat. They went through the oven at 390 degrees for about 17 minutes. I had "taped" off the rubber boot, installed bolts/washers/and nuts through the bushing holes to keep the powder out.

There was no sign of "grease" coming out after the baking operation. To date, I have had no problems with the ball joints, it will be on my mind now though!! :(

[FatBoy Redrider]

Where do you guys find all of these people who powdercoat? I have been searching for someone in my area with no luck. I wouldn't mind trying it myself but where do you get an oven large enough for a swing arm or frame.

[chris29]

I got my bottom a-arms powdercoated and tops chromed. I took all the bushings, balljoints, etc.. out. But I have aftermarket houser. If you have stock a-arms you may have to have those ball joints pressed out or something. I would not leave them in there and risk messing them up.

[CBW]

i built my oven just big enough to do frames.......i dont want to powder coat anything larger..........

otherwise a commercial powdercoating oven can cost 10k or more........:eek:

[Jay300ex]

I am in the same situation here. I took the rubber boots of of my arms today and saw that the ball joints would need to be pressed out if all possible. Tried to press one out and the grease came out from behind the ball and I stopped there thinking someone on here would be able to help me with what I should do. If I keep going, and press them out, can I get grease back in behind them when I press them back in?

I'm sure either Pappy or CBW has an answer to how they usually work around this.

[CBW]

Originally posted by Jay300ex
I am in the same situation here. I took the rubber boots of of my arms today and saw that the ball joints would need to be pressed out if all possible. Tried to press one out and the grease came out from behind the ball and I stopped there thinking someone on here would be able to help me with what I should do. If I keep going, and press them out, can I get grease back in behind them when I press them back in?

I'm sure either Pappy or CBW has an answer to how they usually work around this.


If the ball joints are not 100% removable,,,,,i do not PC the arm.

[Jay300ex]

Originally posted by CBW
If the ball joints are not 100% removable,,,,,i do not PC the arm.

Yep I realize it now, do you know if you can press the ball joint out, then press a new one in ? Or is it a spray paint job?

Jay

[Pappy]

if you press out the ball joint...have the a arm coated, and then try and re press the ball joint you are asking for trouble. you run a huge risk of damaging the coating while using the press.


spray paint them or have them modified to accept removable ball joints.

[CBW]

Originally posted by Pappy
if you press out the ball joint...have the a arm coated, and then try and re press the ball joint you are asking for trouble. you run a huge risk of damaging the coating while using the press.


Well im not real sure what a ams he [Jay300ex] is referring to here,,,,,,,,

but i did press the ball joints out on my YFZ, and press them back in (lower a arms only) with no damage to the coating. Just depends on the arm i guess. As far as i knew though all honda OEM arms had permanent balljoints that could not be removed,,,,,,,except the uppers or lowers on 86-87 R's if i remember right,,,....its hard to remember

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/pb39d0570ce0dc4215fe17f46900b33d5/f9b2546e.jpg

[CHAUNCY]

Hey CBW what color orange is that ? I am building an orange and white banshee right now and I think the color scheme looks awesome!

[CBW]

Originally posted by CHAUNCY
Hey CBW what color orange is that ? I am building an orange and white banshee right now and I think the color scheme looks awesome!



Thanks CHAUNCY.......these pics are a bit old,,,,,,,the valve cover is actually done the same color now.


Its called Orange Glow........its way better, and brighter in person. You could relate it to the orange clothing that hunters must wear.
Its a polyester powder so its not supposed to fade as bad as a real flourescent and, it has good weathering resistance,,,,,,,,,however i have found it to be a bit of a brittle powder so a clear coat is necessary,,,,,,,,which also helps on the UV protection. My YFZ is almost done,,,,,,,,,i just need to get my seat cover done before racing and dune season starts around here............here is another look at it.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid102/p4154cc19a12158773848aa6e27092b32/f9b25473.jpg

[danney f]

Originally posted by CBW
Well im not real sure what a ams he [Jay300ex] is referring to here,,,,,,,,

but i did press the ball joints out on my YFZ, and press them back in (lower a arms only) with no damage to the coating. Just depends on the arm i guess. As far as i knew though all honda OEM arms had permanent balljoints that could not be removed,,,,,,,except the uppers or lowers on 86-87 R's if i remember right,,,....its hard to remember


+ some of the early 250x's and the 250ex also has removable ball joints.

[JOEX]

CBW, long time no see. Miss your pictures;)

Joe

[Jay300ex]

I am working with 2002 and 2003 300EX Arms.

We tried to press one out yestarday and got so far to where the ball moved down and pushed the grease out, but the joint didn't move. It might move, but I wanted to do a little research as to what my options are, if I can put them back in, or replace them, how to repack them.. ect.

THe risk of damaging the PC is very realistic I know. I need to gather all of my alternatives up so I can make a choice here :)

[CBW]

Originally posted by JOEX
CBW, long time no see. Miss your pictures;)

Joe


Thanks Joe:p Didnt think anyone noticed........Here is one for ya..........


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid97/pc17a83e7e3b1aa18d5b42e4dcda41ffe/fa1541c0.jpg

[Jay300ex]

This thought just came to mind, probably wont work. Would you be able to drill a hole in the ball joint cap and put a grease zerk in it? Or is the ball to close/cap to thin for that to even be a good idea?

[banshee94]

I am a powdercoat supervisor. If you clean out all your greas and remove your fittings take off your ruber boot. tape or plug your ball joint it should be fine. also it depends what type of powder your shooting. that can change your time and heat range. any questions ask.

[Jay300ex]

Originally posted by banshee94
I am a powdercoat supervisor. If you clean out all your greas and remove your fittings take off your ruber boot. tape or plug your ball joint it should be fine. also it depends what type of powder your shooting. that can change your time and heat range. any questions ask.

Cool. So basically if you have a way of re-packing grease into your ball joint, all you have to do is degrease it and tape it off then your good to go? The stock ball joints I think there is no way to repack with grease unless you drill the cap and put a grease zerk on it. I don't know if you can leave the zerk there or not, depends on the clearance and thickness of the cap. Either way, you can unscrew it and weld the hole back up?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by banshee94
I am a powdercoat supervisor. If you clean out all your greas and remove your fittings take off your ruber boot. tape or plug your ball joint it should be fine. also it depends what type of powder your shooting. that can change your time and heat range. any questions ask.

the thing you guys arent getting is the fact that there is a nylon cusion UNDER the ball joint and when the a arm is cured it will melt and deform. this can lead to premature failure of the ball joint and could possibly lead to a serious crash if the ball joint seperates at high speed.

secondly, if you try and skimp and not properly cure the powder, it will chip easily there by defeating the purpose of even attempting to powdercoat them:p

i have seen many sets done. i havent ever seen a failure, but nonetheless i dont recommend it

[UglyMotha™]

you can't powder coat or plate stock a-arms you can't plain and simple the nylon cup can't withstand it and i speak from experience and if you don't think i know what i'm talking bout maybe our facility will make you think otherwise :o


http://www.eatonfabricating.com/powder.htm

[PA440exRider]

I just got mine professionaly painted not power coated and it looks nice.

[Jay300ex]

Originally posted by Pappy
the thing you guys arent getting is the fact that there is a nylon cusion UNDER the ball joint and when the a arm is cured it will melt and deform. this can lead to premature failure of the ball joint

Was unable to see the cusion on the computer or fiche. Understood now =)

So probably spray paint and a hardener/clearcoat will be the best bet eh?

[CHAUNCY]

Originally posted by UglyMotha™
you can't powder coat or plate stock a-arms you can't plain and simple the nylon cup can't withstand it and i speak from experience and if you don't think i know what i'm talking bout maybe our facility will make you think otherwise :o


http://www.eatonfabricating.com/powder.htm

What about tin plating them ? I had a set done and they turned out fine. Isnt tin plating a "colder" process so it wont harm the ball joint.

[UglyMotha™]

well, i really don't know bout tin plating i chromed a set and it either ate or melted the teflon cup right out of the ball joint, there was absolutly nothing left

[banshee94]

I stand corrected if there is a tephlon cushion in there it will probley will melt. genraly it takes 20 min in a gas oven at 400 deg. I did do blaster a arm. and it's still tight. but if there's a dought do not do it. a arms are not cheap.

[Jay300ex]

Is this the type of stuff I could paint them with? Epoxy Paint...

http://www.eastwood.com/itemdy00.asp?T1=10000+Z&Dep_Key1=

[mthomas]

Who can modify the stock A-arms with removeable ball joints? Has anyone done this? Any pics?

[Rip_Tear]

Old post but, any machinist, tool and die shop or possibly even a mechanic could do this, they would just need the aftermarket ball joints.

It's really a simple process, measure for center of the ball joints, cut them off close to the ends, then make a treaded bushing for the new ball joints, make sure they will measure up, and weld the bushing in place.

I am going to be doing this to my a-arms soon (I'm a machinist) so I might have over simplified it...